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If someone is buying a 620k home, I think they can also afford a parking spot.

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Actually JC is an urban NJ outpost for car owners. For someone who wants to take a train to work in NY, there is no better option than JC. If you look at a map you can see that Hoboken is in a highway wasteland. JC residents have much easier access to 78, 139, 1/9, etc.

I've heard people who have lived in both Hoboken and DTJC say that DTJC is tougher in terms of parking. But whatever. Relatively speaking (relative to manhattan and I guess Hoboken) JC might be MORE car-friendly, but from a general point of view there is nothing car-friendly about JC. In the grand scheme of US municipalities, Jersey City would be in the bottom 1% in terms of "car-friendliness".

This NYT article does make JC seem like a car centric, suburban outpost which is inaccurate.

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Driving in both places is ok but parking in Hoboken is impossible, in JC it's just tough.

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Sometimes those people come speeding down and it's pretty scary. But I would saying DTJC is drive-able almost all the time as long as you don't want to leave JC. Leaving or entering JC on a Friday or Sunday afternoon is generally horrible.

I like this article for making me feel good about my real estate decision. I was even tempted to trash the choice for the same reasons listed above. but hey, if people are willing to pay this, then that means they should be willing to pay more for my property with it's incredible superiority, right? :)

maybe speed bumps down major arteries is the answer? As a driver, i hate them but i think they do serve a purpose esp on a busy street with kids and pedestrians (i.e., Montgomery near van vorst park)...

Bill is correct. It's a big hassle to drive around Hoboken then DTJC. Plus we have super highways as you and others have mentioned. Plus Hoboken has much better bike infrastructure than JC. I have only seen bike lanes on Grove so far. Apart from that we should have some stop signs on Erie to make that area more pedestrian friendly. While walking, I am most afraid of the folks from the suburbs who work in those office towers.

I guess I was talking about the overall hassle of owning a car in JC and owning a car in Hoboken, versus the actual experience of driving through each. Neither are "car friendly". In both towns, it is more of a hassle to own a car than it is to not own a car.

Yes, we do have a couple of "super highways" like Grand and Columbus, but we also have many office towers on the waterfront unlike Hoboken.

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I have to disagree completely. Having been a car owner for the past 8 years in JC I must say driving in Hoboken is a huge nuisance vs driving in JC. Maybe once all the streets in JC become like Marin will JC not seem car friendly. Seriously how can you compare our 6 lane streets to anything in Hoboken.

By meaning car friendly, i think the poster meant that cars can speed at 50 in a 35 mile zone. So many cars fly quickly through small streets it scares me. Make sure they come to a full stop before crossing.

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Respectfully, I have to disagree completely. I think DTJC and Hoboken are equally pedestrian-friendly and car-unfriendly. And honestly I think anybody who would characterize either Hoboken or DTJC as "car friendly" needs a head examination.

This particular NYT article does make DTJC seem like a car-centric culture, though ..."I can hop in my car and go to Target!".

Obviously having a car is "easier" than having one in Manhattan, which is where this particular couple have always lived, so I guess everything is relative.

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+1000

Great point. I've seen people trash my new building on this forum so I'm going to abstain for now.

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Read JC List enough and after awhile you realize a simple truth: People on this forum love to trash others' real-estate purchases to validate their own choice of home. If the couple happens to stumble across this thread - ignore the opinions posted here. The only one that matters is your own because you're the only one who has to live with the choice. If you're happy with the decision, screw everyone else.

People here are so critical of real estate decisions.

I am waiting for the article where someone gets a short sale in 77 Hudson for 100k and someone says it's an ugly building.

Prices are slated to go up over 5% in DTJC. It's a good place to invest overall.

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Sounds like Rick's 1 through 4 is negativity as well. Sometimes negativity is a good thing it keeps you on your toes. Wouldn't want to buy into something regretable.

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Depends on where in downtown you are. I always have trouble parking in Paulus Hook but in the Grove St. area and definitely the village section, I can count on one hand the number of times I had actual difficulty finding a good spot. Not just A spot, a GOOD spot (I like my car a stone's throw from my building for peace of mind).

DTJC is car friendly, Hoboken is not.

The cost of parking a car in a garage is cheaper in DTJC (200) vs nyc (400+) but good luck finding off street parking! I had an easier time keeping my car on the street in my old neighborhood of west Chelsea than finding a parking spot in JC.

I really wish the NYT hadn't characterized DTJC as car-friendly. I'm not sure if it will encourage more cars and discourage people looking for a more pedestrian friendly neighborhood, but it might. Hopping into your car to go to Target makes the nabe sound like Millburn-sur-Mer, in my urban elitist opinion (IMUEO).

I tend to view all new construction as shoddy, which I define as anything built after 1945 or so. I'll take a standing 100 year old house over new any day. I always laugh when I see massive exterior renovations to buildings that are no more than 10 years young!

I've heard this mentioned in regards to Liberty Harbor numerous times - but what does it mean? I assume some "damage" is done because of the exposure, but can someone define that? Is it going to fall apart/down in 50 years (vs 100 years)? Is it going to get crooked like the Shrieking Shack? Can someone care to elaborate?

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They should have purchased in Gulls Cove. Much better construction quality than anything else in Liberty Harbor.

The exterior of those building in Liberty harbor are "brick facade" and during construction, was out there in the winter for months - uncovered.

I thought it was reasonably priced too: $620K for a 2 bedroom, assuming around 1500 sq ft (not mentioned for the one they brought, but the one that went into contract was around this size), relatively new building, and all the amenities. Not bad. I don't know if it's accurate, but $380 per month for maintenance is cheap, I thought (but not the 11K taxes - but I assume that'll be the standard for 2BD's after the reval?).

Whats with all the negativity ? Where's that coming from ? I guess the Kims made the best possible choice - 1. 77 Hudson has so many renters from what I am hearing and thats making refinancing difficult.. 2. "A" building is going to be witnessing construction on its South side (possibly even west side as well) & relocation of the transformers and who would want to be living amidst all the construction dust and noise... 3. Dudley wasnt such a bad choice...but then you have limited choices (dont want to be on the same side as the Light Rail tracks)..... 4. so that leaves the Kims with Liberty Harbor - newer construction, close to Grove St & they got for a reasonably good price from what I read on NYT......

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Article doesn't account for the proximity to the Grand St. Superhighway or the numerous piles of post-Zeppelin Hall vomit you'll find on the sidewalks on Saturday and Sunday morning.

I'm confused by their decision-making process. Isn't the River St. place just as far from the (Grove St.) PATH as 126 Dudley? And if they use Exchange Place, Dudley is even closer. Well, whatever, I guess the reasoning is simplified for the sake of the article's narrative structure.

No wonder so much of Newark Avenue is going restaurants -- you can buy food out in the burbs.

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Friends suggested Jersey City, which the couple knew only from watching it fly by out the car windows. When they visited, they found it in some ways as lively as Manhattan, but with easy access to suburban shopping...

...For trips to work, they both have hops of under 20 minutes on the PATH train; for other excursions, they take the car. ?I go to the grocery store and buy whatever I want, because I don?t have to worry about carrying it,? Mrs. Song Kim said. ?If I don?t feel like walking, instead of going to Duane Reade, I can just drive to Target and not be bombarded by the crowds in the city. It is not like I always have to plan my every move, my every item.?

The pool is nice, and you have the added advantage of a pond, like when Irene flooded the area, and Sandy - what will 2013's flood be named?

I love the pool at Liberty Harbor - really nice, and so kids-friendly...

THE HUNT
A 2-Bedroom With a Home for the Car

Richard Perry/The New York Times

The Buyers Richard Kim and Jennifer Song Kim and Panda find the spaciousness of their new home novel after life in a studio.

It wasn?t that Jennifer Song Kim liked moving so often, but that moving was a small and temporary hardship far outweighed by the chance to live in a new neighborhood. So she and Richard Kim, who were married a little more than four years ago, moved within Manhattan every time their lease was up.

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/201 ... 7/realestate/07HUNT1.html
77 Hudson A 48-story building did not seem very homey, but in any event, a two-bedroom there was over budget.
Enlarge This Image

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/201 ... 7/realestate/07HUNT2.html
389 Washington Construction was about to start right next door, so there would be noise. And who knew what would happen to the view?

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/201 ... 7/realestate/07HUNT3.html
126 Dudley With parks nearby, the area was great for walking a dog. But for commuters, the walk to the PATH train seemed too much of a hike.

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/201 ... 7/realestate/07HUNT4.html
River Street A town-house-style two-bedroom condominium was large, well laid out, and near the PATH. There was also parking.

?I love change and home-searching and finding new places,? Mrs. Song Kim said. ?A new neighborhood to explore was very exciting to me.?

Mr. Kim wasn?t quite as enthusiastic. ?In the grand scheme of things,? he said, ?I know it made Jennifer happy, which is all that matters.?

Most recently, the couple paid $3,000 a month for a large studio in an amenity-filled high-rise near Columbus Circle. Mrs. Song Kim works at a test-preparation company in the West Village, while Mr. Kim, a lawyer, works in the Flatiron district.

A night owl, Mrs. Song Kim would watch television with a wireless headset while her husband slept; in the morning he would tiptoe around so as not to wake her.

They parked nearby for $275 a month. ?The car was our big splurge,? said Mrs. Song Kim, who like her husband is now 30. They took day trips on weekends and shopped in the suburbs.

The Kims decided last summer that they were ready to commit to a place for up to $800,000. They wanted a spacious two-bedroom condominiumin with a simple commute to work.

And they needed a parking spot for that splurge. ?We really like the idea of driving places, parking in a big parking lot and going to a supermarket,? Mrs. Song Kim said.

Friends suggested Jersey City, which the couple knew only from watching it fly by out the car windows. When they visited, they found it in some ways as lively as Manhattan, but with easy access to suburban shopping. They contacted Margaret Sun of Keller Williams Realty, a friend?s mother, to help them with the hunt.

At 77 Hudson, a glassy tower in the Paulus Hook neighborhood, they could afford a one-bedroom with a home office, but two-bedrooms started around $850,000. And the atmosphere didn?t seem homey enough. ?When I imagine raising our future children,? Mrs. Song Kim said, ?I imagine something more warm and inviting. It was very much like a hotel, almost kind of sterile.?

At 389 Washington Street, a high-rise condo in the Powerhouse Arts District, the deal-breaker was the vacant land right outside, ripe for building. ?You could see the construction materials on the ground already,? Mr. Kim said.

They feared not only having to live through the noise and dust of construction, but also ending up with a blocked view. (A two-bedroom there is currently $829,000.)

Back in Paulus Hook, a two-bedroom in a four-story building at 126 Dudley Street was just $549,000, but on the small side. The Kims liked the neighborhood, near two parks and perfect for walking their dog, Panda. But the walk to the PATH train was longer than they wanted.

They found too many places with boxy layouts ? a living area with a bedroom to each side. Mrs. Song Kim feared that activity in the living room would be audible in both bedrooms.

Units were selling quickly, Ms. Sun said, and the Kims saw much of what was on the market, including places farther out, in Bergen County. But they realized that a quick commute was too important for them to stray beyond Jersey City.

One day the couple happened to park their car near the Liberty Harbor complex, so they checked out some two-bedrooms there. One, a low-rise town house, had 1,500 square feet of space, with a unique rhomboid layout that placed the master bedroom far from the living room.

They decided in its favor, but it had just gone into contract. ?We were so bummed,? Mrs. Song Kim said. ?We weren?t going to find anyplace like it.?

But a few weeks later, a mirror image to the one they had loved and lost came vacant on River Street. The asking price was in the mid-$600s, and they went for it. ?We didn?t want to miss out again,? she said.

The Kims paid $620,000 and moved in last fall. The common charge is around $380 a month, taxes $11,000 a year. Indoor parking costs $160 a month.

Though their street is more congested than they had anticipated, with a rumble once or twice a day from passing trucks, they are getting used to the racket.

For trips to work, they both have hops of under 20 minutes on the PATH train; for other excursions, they take the car. ?I go to the grocery store and buy whatever I want, because I don?t have to worry about carrying it,? Mrs. Song Kim said. ?If I don?t feel like walking, instead of going to Duane Reade, I can just drive to Target and not be bombarded by the crowds in the city. It is not like I always have to plan my every move, my every item.?

In their years together, the couple have lived in such small spaces that each always knew what the other was doing. Now, living in roomier surroundings, there is some mystery, ?which brings back a small joy, a new aspect of our marriage,? Mrs. Song Kim said. ?I kind of miss him. I wonder what he is up to, what is he watching on TV, and kind of go find him. That was a new experience for us.?

And with more space, she sleeps better because she is not awakened when he rises early and ?does 40 different things before my alarm even goes off,? Mrs. Song Kim said. ?He can watch the morning news or not be concerned that his typing will wake me up. We are more efficient, and we are not as tired.?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/07/rea ... ome-for-the-car.html?_r=0