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Re: The futility of gun control
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Home away from home
 
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Of course my right is "at threat". It is under a direct attack from your like.
You require me to "pass" your scrutiny to prove that I am worthy to exercise my rights. In other words, you want to abandon the idea of "due process of the law" where only a criminal may be deprived of his rights in the court of law with a due process. You want to abandon any presumption of innocence. Instead, you want us to prove to you that we may be trusted. In other words you want to totally obliterate a Right, - and replace it with a "privilege" instead. P.S. And you do it in the most dishonest, indecent and disgusting, libelous, demagogic and hysterical way, - insisting that we bear the blame for the school shootings. Quote:
Posted on: 2013/2/16 19:56
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Home away from home
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 Your rights to bear arms is not at threat, what's at threat, is the need and general consensus for the gun owner to be deemed trustworthy and mentally sound to own one. The fear is mental health checks and tests prior and during gun ownership. Once you pass, arm yourself to the teeth. The fear is being deemed an irresponsible nutter !
Posted on: 2013/2/16 5:27
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Home away from home
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It's very funny. But really, the cat's out of the bag. There's 300 million guns out there, so I would like to be in the group that has them. With more firepower than anyone else. Just in case.
If you want to label people like me as part of the problem, I say it's a free country. I exercise my rights to own these weapons and you exercise yours to not own them. Quote:
Posted on: 2013/2/16 2:53
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Home away from home
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Awww, sorry, so sorry.
I thought that your lamentation below was due to your desire to have a rational discussion. Which is why I tried to turn the conversation that way. Now I see that what you wanted was a platform for one-liner personal attacks dictated by your hate of everything gun-related. P.S. Just in case, you do know that Obama supports the idea of having armed people in schools (not only by deed by sending his kids to the school that has a few armed guards on the payroll, but directly -- in his program speech on guns?) And, you did watch the video below where Vice President Biden proclaimed that all the gun-control measures will do nothing to reduce crime, right? I mean, you do know the ideas you so hatefully mock - are Obama-Biden endorsed? Quote:
Posted on: 2013/2/15 12:24
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Home away from home
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NRA BLOGGER 101
 
Posted on: 2013/2/15 0:00
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Home away from home
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Posted on: 2013/2/14 23:48
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Home away from home
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Posted on: 2013/2/14 23:40
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Home away from home
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Look, I offered few very interesting questions to discuss:
1. Do you have any explanation to why the Department of Homeland Security is stockpiling ammo in the 25-years-of-Iraqi-war-level quantities? 2. If you claim that a civilian doesn't need this or that to protect himself, you must conclude that a police officer needs it even less. If not, - show me, where the extra need for the non-civilians comes from. 3. The current constitutional standard when it comes to the laws the infringe on the fundamental rights defended by the Bill of Rights is "strict scrutiny". But even the more relaxed standard requires the government to show some significant benefit it aims to achieve (details in this letter by Randy Barnett). Yet, even the Administration pointman for the gun control freely admits that the new proposals do absolutely nothing to reduce crime! Do you not find those worthy of discussion? I mean - rational discussion?
Posted on: 2013/2/14 19:00
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Home away from home
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Quote:
I gave up on it due to all the wild conjectured meaning/motivation thrown at every sentence, in order to prove a point and defend a position. Good explanation here
Posted on: 2013/2/14 16:18
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Quite a regular
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The futility of this thread
Posted on: 2013/2/14 16:06
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Home away from home
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Quote:
fat-ass-bike wrote: I was nto dismissive, I explained why your theory is lacking, - it doesn't explain what we observe. The possibility of some future tax may explain the urgency of ammo purchases, but it doesn't explain the incredible scale on which the DHS is stockpiling ammo. Quote: fat-ass-bike wrote: I do not resort to ad hominem attacks, - you do. I do not declare you obnoxious merely because you disagree with me - you do. If that means that I come across as a Palin supporter, - good for Palin. Quote: LimpiarElSucio wrote: Ok, you quoted me. So? What were you trying to prove with this quote? You tried a very banal trick, - you tried to claim some special authority on the subject, by proclaiming yourself a "responsible gun owner" very unlike others who are "gun nuts with superhero complex". Without showing any evidence that aforementioned gun nuts do exist and are so numerous and prevalent that you may be considered special. I called you on that. Now what? Quote: LimpiarElSucio wrote: I did recognize it, and I called you a xenophobe based on this very satire. Quote: LimpiarElSucio wrote: We never talked about the evolution in this thread. If you can't keep track of the subject of the discussion, you should not question "reading comprehension" abilities of the people who do.
Posted on: 2013/2/14 15:17
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Boris, read your own posts. I have to agree with fat ass bike because you definitely come off as thinking you are a lot smarter than you actually are.
Let me quote you: "Have you guys rehearsed it? It was just great. It sounded very, very convincing. Yes it was! Almost as if you personally knew some of those horrible irresponsible gun nuts with superhero complex who can be called "law abiding" only in scare quotes." I stand by my point where I said you have poor reading comprehension and lack critical thinking skills because even after (probably) re-reading the thread multiple times... you still dont recognize the satirical nature of my earlier statement. I'm sure you believe that evolution isnt an acceptable theory since it has only been accepted by every respectable scientist - but from their perspective. Since you care so much about exact quotes and references, I expect you to cite every single quote/fact/opinion you post about. After all, its important to practice what you preach. Since anything more I could write would just be repetitive and/or pointing out the flaws in every one of your retorts... this is no longer worth the time.
Posted on: 2013/2/14 14:30
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Boris you are the most obnoxious person on jclist - you ask questions but don't agree and are immediately dismissive, then you answer your own question.
Maybe you need to have a long conversation with your mirror! You come across as a Palin supporter ! 
Posted on: 2013/2/14 12:46
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Home away from home
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Quote:
LimpiarElSucio wrote: Yeah, this is like totally common approach to quote a poem, - use synonyms for the some words. Anyway, you didn't just use synonyms, you changed the meaning. Quote: LimpiarElSucio wrote: Irrelevant. You did not talk about how immigrants were not desired in their old countries. Your "undesirable" was from YOUR perspective and you used it to explain... let me qoute you, - "why we have so many idiots/psychopath citizens" Quote: LimpiarElSucio wrote: Well, the reason you do not see that connection is because I never made it. I accused you of xenophobia because of your xenophobic musings about immigrants who are, in your directly expressed opinion, the reason... let me quote you, - "why we have so many idiots/psychopath citizens"
Posted on: 2013/2/14 3:49
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Exactly. And my point is, all these proposed measures (esp the local ordinances put forth NJ) aren't going to make a difference.
Those intent on attacking soft targets are not going to follow these laws anyway. Quote:
Posted on: 2013/2/14 2:43
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1.Destitute is a synonym of poor. Get a dictionary or thesaurus and relax.
2. Read a history book. Societies persecute those they "dont desire." America has historically (ultimately) allowed these groups to come in to the country. I guess in your version of history, the english loved the scotch/irish, germans & russians loved the jews, poles, etc, and southern italians were living the good life and not considered pariahs when they came to this country. Shit, you dont even have to read... Just watch pbs or something. 3. I dont see the connection between me labeling someone a "gun nut" and you accusing me of "xenophobia" because you have poor reading comprehension and critical thinking skills...
Posted on: 2013/2/14 2:35
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Home away from home
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Posted on: 2013/2/14 2:29
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Home away from home
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Quote:
LimpiarElSucio wrote: Your first attempt at quoting it had words "sick" and "destitute", but without "yearning to be free". In Emma Lazarus' poem immigrants were coming here in search of freedom, in search of an opportunity to build something with their own work - you got rid of those people, and substituted some decrepit beggars looking for a welfare handout. Quote: LimpiarElSucio wrote: Nah, don't even try to pretend that this was some abstract historical introspection. You mentioned "less desirable" immigrants because "it does explain why we have so many idiots/psychopath citizens" right now. Quote: LimpiarElSucio wrote: What do you mean by "getting at"? I am "getting at" nothing, I am calling you a xenophobe.
Posted on: 2013/2/14 1:57
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Quote:
1. From wikipedia. "Give me your tired, your poor/Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free", is uniquely identified with the Statue of Liberty and is inscribed on a plaque in the museum in the base. 2. I dont think you understood or actually read what I wrote. I specifically wrote, over the countries "entire existence." Thats a 400 year period, so it isnt surprising that your personal immigration experience didnt mesh. Every american, excluding native americans, immigrated to this country - nothing in what I wrote should be construed as xenophobic (unless the reader is looking for a fight?). If anything, what I wrote is more likely to be construed as anti-multi-generational american. My family was among the "less desirables" expelled from europe that came to the US because we were (more) accepted. If you look at the bulk of Americans, the VAST MAJORITY of those with families dating back more than 1 generation are descendants of immigrants who came without college degrees, or even high school diplomas. My great grandfather came to this country alone when he was 2yrs old. He certainly didnt have a degree. 3. What are you getting at?
Posted on: 2013/2/13 15:42
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Home away from home
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Quote:
"Law abiding citizen" is a loaded term, of course I use it in quotations. Its popular use in this context tends to say, ?I am not responsible for America?s gun problem, and I refuse to allow my vocal advocacy and pursuit of gun ownership to be affected voluntarily or otherwise.? It?s a convenient argument, but it?s egocentric, naive, and counterproductive.
Posted on: 2013/2/13 13:31
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Home away from home
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Also, you may find this interesting:
New York Post: City says cops had no duty to protect subway hero who subdued killer Which is not something new, as you can find out in this book: Dial 911 and Die
Posted on: 2013/2/13 13:00
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Home away from home
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By the way, if anyone is honestly interested in the rational argument, here is something:
Randy Barnett: My Letter to Ted Cruz on Gun Control Proposals
Posted on: 2013/2/13 4:56
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Home away from home
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Quote:
LimpiarElSucio wrote: 1. The poem says nothing about "sick" and "destitute". Being a xenophobe is no excuse for mangling the quote. Especially since you live in sight of its subject. Even though you obviously are no fan of anything it represents. 2. Almost all my family members arrived here with advanced degrees except for my niece. Coincindentally, she thought herself to be the smartest and the most educated person ever, even though her "three Rs" were barely at the level of the 4th grade. She was six at the time. What's your excuse? Quote: LimpiarElSucio wrote: Have you guys rehearsed it? It was just great. It sounded very, very convincing. Yes it was! Almost as if you personally knew some of those horrible irresponsible gun nuts with superhero complex who can be called "law abiding" only in scare quotes.
Posted on: 2013/2/13 1:13
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Well said. As an outdoors person who enjoy nature, to me hunting is secondary, but if I had an opportunity to bring a couple of Pheasants for dinner, then it's a treat.
Most of us do not glorify assault weapons, or participate in romanticizing violence with guns. The problem with a lot of anti-gun people is that they automatically vilify anyone who possess firearms even if it's for lawful purposes. Quote:
Posted on: 2013/2/12 17:00
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Home away from home
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Many people obviously value gun ownership for the power that it affords them. Implemented as the weapon it was designed to be, a gun enables its wielder to potentially dominate a conflict through the threat of brute force associated with injury, pain, and death. This is no less true of criminal aggressors than of ?law abiding citizens? who repeatedly cite the imperative need to defend themselves as the reason for gun ownership.
So when we talk about guns? popular role in this context, we?re talking about their deployment as instruments of power, dominance, and fear. These elements are no less prevalent throughout the animal kingdom, but only we have the luxury of disproportionate mechanical enhancement. We can also see how the themes of power, dominance and fear--whether related to guns, money, or politics for that matter--helped make our nation what it is today in an unbelievably short time. Unfortunately, this paradigm also tends to divorce us from the enlightening roles of self-knowledge, courage, and sacrifice, which are unique to our species, and ushers us toward a woefully unsustainable course that many are too ignorant or selfish to acknowledge. I wouldn?t argue that guns have been positively instrumental in too many situations to ever count?so have enriched, radioactive isotopes?but a problem child is a problem child. Unless we tend to them with responsibility and wisdom, the result is guaranteed tragedy.
Posted on: 2013/2/12 16:18
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I need to correct myself. you cannot hunt in nj with rimfire rifles, you can use them at the target ranges at the wildlife management areas but cannot actually hunt with them. the only rifles you can hunt with in nj are muzzleloaders (which is why i and so many others dont hunt deer in NJ)
Posted on: 2013/2/12 14:59
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Quote:
Over the US's entire existence we have primarily had non-skilled immigrants move to this country. How many of your family members had college degrees when they arrived in this country? The US has always accepted the less desirable from other countries ("give me your sick, your tired, your destitute")... this isnt a new phenomenon but it does explain why we have so many idiots/psychopath citizens :)
Posted on: 2013/2/12 14:27
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As a reasonable and responsible gun owner and hunter I believe that my voice needs to be heard over the voices of the two varieties of "gun nuts"... the nuts who don't respect the power/danger/responsibility required of owning firearms enough & seem to have a superhero complex and the nuts who are scared to death of anything dangerous.
Here is my take: A588 would seemingly ban nearly all hunting rifle ammo. the only hunting rifles that would be allowed would be for varmint/small game. If it banned centerfire ammo specifically then this would be less of a problem in NJ since you can only use rimfire rifles to hunt in NJ (I'm sure most people dont know or care what the difference between centerfire and rimfire is but it is important - the functional difference is that rimfire ammo cannot be fired as quickly as centerfire ammo). Of course, any NJ hunters who hunt in PA, upstate NY, or for elk/moose farther north/west could be adversely effected since centerfire rifles are allowed there. A116 is fine. this just creates additional jail time for someone involved in a straw sale. Of course in states like PA where they dont record information on who is purchasing a gun... and where most straw sales in our area occur, this will have no impact. A1329 is fine. if you cant "protect" yourself by accurately firing 10 rounds then you shouldnt be shooting/owning a gun. more rounds equals more spraying instead of aiming. unless you have a dozen people ambushing you then 10 rounds should be moer than sufficient. Most shooters are stopped by law enforcement when they are reloading. Reloading quickly under pressure is more time consuming than you think, and if you say "oh but i can reload really fast" then you shouldnt care if you have to reload, you've negated your own argument... A1387... seriously? i really dont get the argument from anyone that wants guns closer to schools. the point that criminals wont care about these laws is 100% correct however the critics fail to recognize that these laws tack on more prison time to people who are caught violating other firearms laws and are dumb enough to bring the gun with them to school/public area. these laws punish criminals. Quote:
Posted on: 2013/2/12 14:19
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Quote:
fat-ass-bike wrote: This doesn't explain the scale of the stockpiling. Unless you imply that this is done specifically to deny the ammo to the citizenry, - which would be a violation of the people's rights. Same as an attempt to buy all stocks of paper to prevent citizens from publishing something. Quote: fat-ass-bike wrote: The overall violence and crime in the US are on a long-term decline. There were some fluctuations, but the overall trend is unmistakable. Getting your facts straight is not only honest, it is also an energy-saving measure, - now that we discovered that you started with a wrong premise, we can disregard everything that you derived from it! Quote: fat-ass-bike wrote: Oh, that I do not doubt. Gun-control is just a symptom of this "I don't believe plebeians can be trusted with so called rights" thing. Quote: fat-ass-bike wrote: I hope so too. I also hope that all the Senators who support this idea do show their true colors and vote for it. It is time to see who is who.
Posted on: 2013/2/12 14:09
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I read the US is having a brain drain and there has been a huge increase in US residents leaving the country altogether. Could it be that our intellectuals and academics have had enough of crime, corruption and quality of life propects ?
Instead of the US being a 'lucky' country, its turning into a lawless one. Reports suggest our main source of immigrant is predominately non skilled or semi skilled workers. There is plenty to read on this topic and some States have introduced conditions on residents that decide to leave the country. I read that Canada, Australia, UK, France is amongst the countries of choice for citizens leaving.
Posted on: 2013/2/12 13:58
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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