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Re: The futility of gun control
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We have a 200 year supply of guns, but only a 3 year supply of bullets. The answer seems obvious.
And, this can be finessed: only make 'bad' bullets (like hollow points) harder to obtain, while keeping bullets that are typically used for target practice available to enthusiasts (but perhaps with strict licensing requirements). NY Times article on this topic
Posted on: 2013/1/30 16:17
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borisp wrote: You can?t make a connection between my supposed hatred of America and the 4th of July because: (1) hatred for any country is absurd, and (2) there?s no connection to make. My wife doesn?t let the stupid things I do go unmentioned, yet she doesn?t hate me. See how that works? But okay, you asked what we celebrate on July 4th. Independence. Better yet, independence from a government that became openly hostile toward its citizens when they sought to unburden themselves from an unfair system of rule. A guy could totally get his Second Amendment on over that. Awesome, right? Unfortunately, that?s only as far as many people take it: Their justification for gun ownership is based on the needs of 18th century colonists to preserve a young nation?s independence. It does not consider the evolution of technology over the past two-hundred years. It does not consider the growth of America?s defenses against foreign aggressors. And it does not genuinely consider how a ?well regulated militia? would function and what it would seek to accomplish in the event of an insurgency. This isn?t the 1700?s and the national position on firearms cannot be single-handedly dictated by 18th century attitudes, needs, and practices. That?s the connection, simple as it may be.
Posted on: 2013/1/30 16:10
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LOL:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Jplh7uatr-E we'll soon need anti-drone missile systems in our backyard
Posted on: 2013/1/30 14:51
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Re: The futility of gun control
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From one of the parents of the Sandy Hook massacre : "Guns are not the problem, the problem is lack of civility"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dps7qvM_S-A
Posted on: 2013/1/30 14:40
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"Gun-related-crimes" is not a very good statistics. Consider a hypothetical example: -- In town A some psychopath rapes and kills 10 women with a knife. -- In town B some psychopath rapes and kills one woman, but when he attempts to kill the second one, she shoots him with an illegal gun. My example is hypothetical, - but it is very good as a test. If some statistics favors situation A to situation B in my example, - it is most definitely misleading. Your statistics of choice "gun-related-crimes" would show that in town B we have one "gun-related-crime" (possession) and in town A zero. Similarly misleading is "gun-related-deaths" statistics, - it will also show zero for town A and one death for town B. I propose that the only reason to employ those statistics instead of "total murder level" or "total burglary level" or "total violent crime level" is to mislead. Quote: Logic would suggest that we reduce gun ownership, but we increase it - We sure are a dumb nation lacking logic and common-sense ! First of all, common sense tells us that you can't disarm criminals. I mean, - people are making weapons and murder each other IN PRISONS, - in the most controlled environment there is. We have made no dent in drug business, - and making weapons is not more difficult. It is a XIX century technology, for crying out loud. Any competent metal worker can make a gun. What you can do, - is to disarm the law abiding victims. Why does your logic and common sense dictate that - is beyond me. By the way, my question for you: Do you think we should disarm everyone, or should we leave arms to some special categories? Police? Politicians? If so, - why? Why do they deserve better protection than me - in your opinion?
Posted on: 2013/1/30 14:16
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/databl ... /gun-crime-map-statistics
Why is it that the US has the highest gun related crimes in the world and also the highest gun ownership ? Logic would suggest that we reduce gun ownership, but we increase it - We sure are a dumb nation lacking logic and common-sense ! The link gives statistics on gun related violence / crime - NJ is up there as one of the worse .... yippey ! http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/databl ... jan/10/gun-crime-us-state
Posted on: 2013/1/30 14:01
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Shock: A few lefty outlets acknowledge media were wrong about Newtown ?heckling?; Piers Morgan ?apologizes,? sort of So, apparently, there was no heckling. Apparently, the guy asked a question, then repeated it, - and someone respectfully answered. Apparently, the story about heckling was SO fabricated that even Pierce Morgan apologized. Will you?
Posted on: 2013/1/30 5:47
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"Have you no sense of decency sir?"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01 ... im-heckled_n_2572503.html
Posted on: 2013/1/30 5:21
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if the war on drugs isn't working, why would the war on guns work?
Posted on: 2013/1/30 4:55
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Non sequitur. They pass it as a precondition for a job, - that they apply for voluntarily. Not as a precondition for exercising their rights.
Posted on: 2013/1/30 4:50
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This is based on the 1998 work of Dr. Carl T. Bogus. His logic goes like this: "since some people wanted to defend themselves from the slave's revolt, it follows that the defense against the slave revolt was the only possible purpose of the guns!" That kind of logic should look wrong even for the people who don't know much about history. No? You do not see the logical defect there? How do you people ever pass the SAT I wonder... Ok, consider another example of the same logic: "some people may use internet for porn, - so it follows that the internet must have been created by pedophiles", - do you see an error in that hypothetical statement? I hope you do, because otherwise the situation is hopeless. Were were we? Ah, I mentioned that this logic is wrong even if we did not know history. But, luckily, - we DO know it, right? And so we know that the recognition of the right to bear arms as a right of a Free Man roots in antiquity. It is one of the rights in the British common law, mentioned in some charters that the crown was forced to admit. Like in the Bill of Rights in 1689 for example. Now, again, in the Southern colonies the slavery was prevalent - but in the North it was not. Moreover, people like John Adams, Franklin and many others vehemently opposed it. And yet, - they revolted against the government that among other offences tried to take away their right to arms. So, to sum it up, - the Bogus' story that you are selling is based on bad logic, and disregards most of the human history. Hardly worth considering. Now, when it comes to the gun prohibition - THAT is rooted in pure KKK. THAT is a historical fact, no way around it. Wish you all the best.
Posted on: 2013/1/30 4:46
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Every police officer has to pass a psychological test, even soldiers and most emergency services personnel - This testing will null and void any 'nutter' or person's with a mental health problem from getting their hands on a gun legally - If they get one illegally, then the can get arrested ... for having one in their possession at anytime
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Posted on: 2013/1/30 4:13
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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Re: The futility of gun control
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And the 2nd Amendment was proposed by founders who wanted to ensure their slave patrols would not be impeded by the federal government. http://truth-out.org/news/item/13890- ... ified-to-preserve-slavery Your point was?
Posted on: 2013/1/30 3:57
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No worries, I understood. You overestimate the brilliance of the piece though. This was not even fresh in the 60-s, and just as stupid. Now, as for your three-fifth commentary. First, it seems you decided that a personal attack is your best option in this argument. Second, two out of three drafters of the Declaration of Independence were anti-slavery. And, three fifth is from the Constitution and thus is not related to the 4th of July. You really should study some history before you attempt to engage in historical argument. Third, especially so when you talk about the Second Amendment. For the first gun control laws in this nation were instituted by the Southern racist to keep arms out of the hands of the freed slaves. The KKK began as a gun-control organization. You are on the KKK side of history buddy, and this is a historical fact.
Posted on: 2013/1/30 2:41
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I don't think he'll get this. Brilliant though. I imagine he stills see some folks as three-fifths of a man.
Posted on: 2013/1/30 2:14
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Frank_M wrote: This is not very coherent. I mean, I can tell that you genuinely hate this country, - but I am not sure how to make a logical connection from there to the 4th of July specifically. Quote: Vigilante wrote: "You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means". Self-fulfilling prophecy "is a prediction that directly or indirectly causes itself to become true, by the very terms of the prophecy itself, due to positive feedback between belief and behavior." There is no positive feedback here. We predicted that the government may attack our rights, - and lo and behold it does. Hence, the correct term is not a "self-fulfilling prophecy", but an "accurate prediction". Quote: Vigilante wrote: Same about the word "paranoia". It is used to describe a fear of something that is inconceivable to a reaonable person. When one fears something and it does happen, - it is not a paranoia, but the "most judicious evaluation of the reality". Quote: Vigilante wrote: Hey!!! WHO DO YOU CALL NUT??? Bloomberg? Obama??? Feinstein?? How DARE you??!!!! By the way, do you want to may be answer the question? I was asking, - what exactly do you celebrate on the 4th of July?
Posted on: 2013/1/30 0:01
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So true. I loved this story which was published after the Oregon Mall shooting. This guy had the shooter in his sights, so he says, and yet never fired. He and others have convinced themselves that his mere presence caused the shooter to kill himself. http://www.therightscoop.com/clackama ... un-carrier-aiming-at-him/
Posted on: 2013/1/29 20:17
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The father of a Newtown victim was shouted at by the pro-gun folks at hearings on Monday when he asked why any civilian would need a military-style gun. I guess if these folks have their Bushmasters taken away, they know they don't have the intellectual curiosity to take up another hobby. They need to blow up something real good. Or be ready to take on the US Army when it all turns on us or fight the zombies of the apocalypse.
And the notion of self-defense is a funny one, as I am positive that most of these folks would be too busy crapping themselves to take their guns off safety. And many guns meant for self-defense wind up doing exactly the opposite of what they were intended for. Just ask Nancy Lanza. Oh, wait, you can't.
Posted on: 2013/1/29 19:02
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I fear that many of these guys have been dreaming of this day for years. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. Paranoia over government is fine but everyone else has to stifle their fear over that "crazy neighbor". That nut who is so deluded that he feels he needs a stockpile of weapons. The NRA should investigate how Hollywood and Computer game fantasy has affected their members.
Posted on: 2013/1/29 16:57
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and, in NY, the battle has begun:
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/hi ... dy_5rxZg0gYBJJhkLBtiTPMfJ Assault-rifle owners statewide are organizing a mass boycott of Gov. Cuomo?s new law mandating they register their weapons, daring officials to ?come and take it away,? The Post has learned. Gun-range owners and gun-rights advocates are encouraging hundreds of thousands of owners to defy the law, saying it?d be the largest act of civil disobedience in state history. ?I?ve heard from hundreds of people that they?re prepared to defy the law, and that number will be magnified by the thousands, by the tens of thousands, when the registration deadline comes,?? said Brian Olesen, president of the American Shooters Supply, one of the largest gun dealers in the state. Reuters FIGHTIN? WORDS: Self-declared gun nut John Noto protests in Albany over the weekend, as many gun lovers planned to defy a new law to register weapons. Officials estimate at least 1 million semiautomatic rifles are owned in the state, sources said. And come April 15, 2014 ? when Cuomo is expected to be running for re-election ? they all have to be registered with the State Police. But because the rifles have been legal but unregistered until now, authorities don?t know who has them or where they are located. State officials will be nervously watching the registration figures to see how many gun owners comply, sources said. ?I believe you will have people stepping forward, saying, ?Here I am. See? I have what you call an assault rifle. Now come and take it away,? ?? said a gun-rights activist and boycott organizer. That?s exactly what state officials are worried about. ?Many of these assault-rifle owners aren?t going to register; we realize that,?? said a Cuomo-administration source who added that officials expect ?widespread violations?? of the new law. Owners who refuse to register could face a class-A misdemeanor ? punishable by up to a year in prison. And an owner?s weapon could also be confiscated, which could be worth several thousands of dollars. National Rifle Association President David Keene told The Post yesterday that he wasn?t surprised by the planned boycott. ?While we don?t get involved in campaigns to resist the law, I will say this: Historic experience here and in Canada shows that when you try to force gun owners into a registration and licensing system, there?s usually mass opposition and mass noncompliance,? he said. ?I think it?s going to be very difficult for the governor to get mass compliance with this new law.? Leaders of some of the state?s 300 gun clubs, gun dealers and Second Amendment organizations are organizing the boycott ? and the heaviest interest is in Suffolk County, the Capital District and the Buffalo region, sources said. The organizers point to a little-known guarantee of gun ownership contained in New York?s own ?Civil Rights Law,? which was ratified the same year as the Constitution . The state statute says the right to keep and bear arms ?cannot be infringed? ? stronger than the Second Amendment, which says it ?shall not be infringed.?? ?They?re saying, ?F--- the governor! F--- Cuomo! We?re not going to register our guns,? and I think they?re serious. People are not going to do it. People are going to resist,?? said State Rifle and Pistol Association President Tom King, a member of the NRA board of directors. ?They?re taking one of our guaranteed civil rights, and they?re taking it away.?? Olesen said he?ll soon launch a nonprofit, to be called Save the Second Amendment Foundation,? to fight the new law. fredric.dicker@nypost.com
Posted on: 2013/1/29 15:50
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Tobacco, hemp, sugar cane, rum, slavery, gold, patriarchy, and genocide. They had everything figured out in the eighteenth century!
Posted on: 2013/1/29 15:27
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Vigilante wrote: Oh, yeah - you call yourself "vigilante". You post angry hateful messages. You argue that we have nothing to worry from the government, - using Ruby Ridge as an example. And I am the kook. By the way, you didn't answer my question (and, if you need any help from the audience, you are welcome) so I am going to repeat it, - what exactly do you celebrate on the 4th of July? Quote: fat-ass-bike wrote: Test for the driver's license is a "have you learned how to handle it" test. I have no problem with similar test for the license to carry weapons in public areas. What you propose, - is to force someone who wants to exercise their constitutional rights to pass a psychological testing. This is something entirely different. To ask if a person has a prior history, if a person was ever found guilty of a crime or ever found mentally incompetent, - is one thing. To demand that the person proved that he is not a criminal, or that he is not insance, - is moving us from a nominally free country to a totalitarian police state. Where the citizens are presumed to be a threat and must prove that they are not. And keep in mind, that once you trade away this freedom, you ain't getting it back. Once you make this dent in the "presumption of innocence", - there will be not enough plaster to patch it up. Next thing you know the classes in Constitution Law in Yale and Harvard will be teaching "it has been discovered that the requirement of a due process is not absolute, and allows government, if it really needs, to violate it. This semester we will dedicate to the subject of what 'really needs' means. We discovered, there are two standards of 'real need': (a) 'need it real badly' and (b) 'i want it, i want it, i waint it!!!!'"
Posted on: 2013/1/29 13:36
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If you need to sit a test for a driver's license, then why not for gun ownership that includes psychological testing and maybe even a DNA registration?
Oh yeah, Boris you're a worry!
Posted on: 2013/1/29 11:22
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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You are officially a kook.
Posted on: 2013/1/29 5:29
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Yeah, and the next thing we know you will announce that you do not mind if we voice our opinions in our living rooms, but you think that nobody needs to publish their thoughts on the Internet, except for Government! Funny how you emphasize that you have "ZERO" problems if you take away you rights, let us keep some shreds. Oh, thank you so much!!! We are so grateful that you decided to leave us something! By the way, - how did it occur to you that you can decide what rights we do need? I mean, - did you wake up one morning, look in the mirror, and though - hey, I am different! I am MORE EQUAL than those guys! Quote:
Do you think people should have GPS chips too? I mean people can kill and rape without them guns, right? Quote:
To think about it, - nobody should be allowed to move freely outside of the house other than in formation and under the close guard of the armed officers. Quote:
May I ask you, - what exactly do you celebrate on the 4th of July? Quote:
This is the weirdest turn of the argument imaginable! If you want to argue that we do NOT need weapons, - you should tell us something like "the government will never attack you". When you tell us "the government will attack you with fighter planes and crash you like in Ruby Ridge", - how can you go from there to "ergo, you do not need weapons"?
Posted on: 2013/1/29 4:40
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The other 299,999,999 guns. Catch-22.
Posted on: 2013/1/28 19:56
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I have ZERO problems with legally owned guns for hunting and target shooting. No one needs an assault weapon and the government should implement strict control over them. Guns should be traceable to an owner and they should contain a GPS chip. No one should be allowed to sell guns privately without the supervision of local law enforcement. No gun show should EVER be allowed without the presence and supervision of the ATF. EVERY transaction should be documented and monitored by said ATF Agent. The proposition that we need weapons to protect ourselves from the government is absolutely silly and untenable. Where does that end? The government has drones, tanks and F-18's and hundreds of thousands of "volunteers". Perhaps borisp and JerseyCityNJ would enjoy a life in the remotest parts of America? Maybe they could continually up the ante' and someday get to die in a blaze of glory battling against tyranny? Think Koresh and Ruby Ridge.
Posted on: 2013/1/28 16:51
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I don't own anything illegal and don't play video games. I train every week on the range, and compete in IDPA twice a month.
It's a sport, and a hobby, which just happens to involve firearms. I also hunt, not for the sake of shooting, but to be in the outdoors. If I get to take a pheasant or deer, I will certainly cook and eat it. Having said that - nothing is settled in Newtown, it's especially heinous because they were small children. The guns used were licensed, obtained legally in a state with restrictive gun laws. People who disapprove of guns are running on emotion, and is it logical to ban high capacity magazines, but it's really ignorant to ban these weapons because it will not make any difference. Michael Moore really nailed it on this piece (before Sandy Hook): http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mik ... -know-its-not-really-guns My liberal compatriots will tell you if we just had less guns, there would be less gun deaths. And, mathematically, that would be true. If you have less arsenic in the water supply, it will kill less people. Less of anything bad ? calories, smoking, reality TV ? will kill far fewer people. And if we had strong gun laws that prohibited automatic and semi-automatic weapons and banned the sale of large magazines that can hold a gazillion bullets, well, then shooters like the man in Aurora would not be able to shoot so many people in just a few minutes. But this, too, has a problem. There are plenty of guns in Canada (mostly hunting rifles) ? and yet the annual gun murder count in Canada is around 200 deaths. In fact, because of its proximity, Canada's culture is very similar to ours ? the kids play the same violent video games, watch the same movies and TV shows, and yet they don't grow up wanting to kill each other. Switzerland has the third-highest number of guns per capita on earth, but still a low murder rate. So ? why us? I posed this question a decade ago in my film 'Bowling for Columbine,' and this week, I have had little to say because I feel I said what I had to say ten years ago ? and it doesn't seem to have done a whole lot of good other than to now look like it was actually a crystal ball posing as a movie. This is what I said then, and it is what I will say again today: 1. We Americans are incredibly good killers. We believe in killing as a way of accomplishing our goals. Three-quarters of our states execute criminals, even though the states with the lower murder rates are generally the states with no death penalty. Our killing is not just historical (the slaughter of Indians and slaves and each other in a "civil" war). It is our current way of resolving whatever it is we're afraid of. It's invasion as foreign policy. Sure there's Iraq and Afghanistan ? but we've been invaders since we "conquered the wild west" and now we're hooked so bad we don't even know where to invade (bin Laden wasn't hiding in Afghanistan, he was in Pakistan) or what to invade for (Saddam had zero weapons of mass destruction and nothing to do with 9/11). We send our lower classes off to do the killing, and the rest of us who don't have a loved one over there don't spend a single minute of any given day thinking about the carnage. And now we send in remote pilotless planes to kill, planes that are being controlled by faceless men in a lush, air conditioned studio in suburban Las Vegas. It is madness. 2. We are an easily frightened people and it is easy to manipulate us with fear. What are we so afraid of that we need to have 300 million guns in our homes? Who do we think is going to hurt us? Why are most of these guns in white suburban and rural homes? Maybe we should fix our race problem and our poverty problem (again, #1 in the industrialized world) and then maybe there would be fewer frustrated, frightened, angry people reaching for the gun in the drawer. Maybe we would take better care of each other (here's a good example of what I mean). Those are my thoughts about Aurora and the violent country I am a citizen of. Like I said, I spelled it all out here if you'd like to watch it or share it for free with others. All we're lacking here, my friends, is the courage and the resolve. I'm in if you are. [/quote] Why the F**k should I have to present a "counter" to anything? You guys are morons. The argument was settled in Newtown. You are being put on notice and that is all. If you aren't doing anything illegal or don't own guns that are about to be banned then stop your whining. The Feds are clamping down and that's that. You're like gnats. And yes, all your "M1A1 and AR-15 blah, blah, blah" while stroking your barrels is just mindless gun porn. Maybe gun geeks is better? Every hobbyist group has their geeks who want to dissect every aspect of which no one else has any interest. Go play Call of Duty.[/quote]
Posted on: 2013/1/28 14:41
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Crazy_Chester wrote: Absolutely, yes. Unless, of course, your goal is to disadvantage the law-abiding citizens. Look, if we forget for a moment about The Constitution, what is left is a simple cost-benefit analysis. And, it is the simplest possible case of the cost-benefit analysis, -- where the benefit is zero. Quote: Vigilante wrote: So... a hateful and angry person, who calls himself "Vigilante", is raving about how him and his will be coming for us, whereas we are like "gnats"... The new measures prescribed by Obama, - do they include any forced psychological evaluations yet?
Posted on: 2013/1/28 13:48
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Re: The futility of gun control
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Home away from home
Joined:
2006/11/13 18:42 Last Login : 2022/2/28 7:31 From 280 Grove Street
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Registered Users
Posts:
4192
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No kidding gun control is futile, as is the sale of cigarettes - The government is addicted to the taxes it receives from their sales.
Posted on: 2013/1/28 7:53
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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