JERSEY CITY LIST - Re: Bayonne the new Netherlands ? [NOT Jersey City]

Re: Bayonne the new Netherlands ?

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stillinjc wrote:
Quote:

Frank_M wrote:

I suppose you could compare the United States to say, Greece, instead of Germany, but only if you wanted to present an ill-informed opinion that compares apples to oranges. In the meantime, read up on the use of wind power and other renewable energy sources in Germany since that?s the subject at hand.

I expect Germany to own Greece in a couple of years, so your point is moot.

Regarding wind and "renewable" energy in Germany, the solar is broke, as it should be.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,809439,00.html

In terms of wind, I expect the Germans to protest once the giant windmills are up their asses.

Or maybe not. They are already indoctrinated, and well-trained.

Moot? No, you?re making a nonsensical argument. Germany is America?s peer in the EU and is seemingly a more advanced nation whose citizens are more well informed, well travelled, and enjoy a higher rate of employment, a higher quality of life, and more leisure time. Sticking to the subject, they have long since embraced wind power, and I?ve witnessed literally hundreds of installations in the northern lowlands. Now if you want to speak about cultural generalities, such as ?indoctrination? and ?training,? it is we who have been indoctrinated and trained in some of the most disingenuous manners.

For example, we have been sold a poor public transportation infrastructure and inefficient automobiles that are sized to accommodate our inflated egos. Our tax dollars are pissed away on gasoline production subsidies so that we can further piss away the gasoline. Meanwhile we?re trained to believe there?s nothing wrong with that while we?re busy making trouble with oil-bearing nations. Instead, no, something must be wrong with high gasoline prices in Europe.

Over the past decade, our own government has indoctrinated the masses into a paranoid culture that infects our judgment with irrational fear and promotes insanely wasteful spending and the curtailment of civil liberties. At the same time, we have little use for objective journalism whose proponents are poorly rewarded, while in Germany it is standard practice and a respected profession. They look at our news programming and wonder if it?s a spoof.

We are home to many of the world?s most brilliant individuals who work to develop advanced technologies which we then buy back from Chinese manufacturers. Is that a joke? We might be better off if we paid a premium for domestically manufactured goods and resist gorging ourselves on quantity, but we been taught to want more and pay less. Oh, and we work and stress ourselves to death for minimal vacation time and an unsure retirement.

I could go on, but sadly, we are the suckers and rubes who have been indoctrinated and trained to believe in so much bullshit. There is still plenty wrong with Germany, but the construction of ecological, economic and political time-bombs, and ignorance of the past, present, and future isn?t as big a concern as it is for us.

Posted on: 2012/2/7 15:20

Re: Bayonne the new Netherlands ?

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CatDog wrote:

Also, Ianmac is a dickface, but everyone knows that already.

One of the few sensible things I've heard you say.

Posted on: 2012/2/7 2:28

Re: Bayonne the new Netherlands ?

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Quote:

Frank_M wrote:
Quote:

stillinjc wrote:
Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

Frank_M wrote:
An ill-informed public represents a weakness that has a negative effect on an entire society. I don?t care if you identify yourself as conservative or liberal, only that you use your head in a way that allows you to comprehend both the strengths and weakness of your own opinions in both a subjective and objective context. Unfortunately, the refusal to be self-critical is a selfish trend that seems to be more prevalent among Americans than our peers in other advanced nations. If you don?t see the weaknesses of your own opinions, there?s a good chance that they are poorly formed opinions. Go ahead and vote on those grounds if you like, just don?t be surprised to find you've made a laughing stock of your nation.

Well put. Unfortunately the modern American political system is based on swaying the "undecided", who are usually there due to ignorance. Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of ignorance among the decided voters, but they're not being contested. So the basic campaign is more or less who can say the simplest, most stripped of nuance argument for themselves and their policy. Nuance doesn't work on the ignorant, they have no context to process it in.

@Frank_M and brewster:

Yeah, in Europe the voters are much less ignorant than here (or so they say), and lately it has economically sucked over there much more than here.

The bottom line is that it does not matter.

The "smart" Europeans got in an even deeper shite than "dumb" Americans.

I suppose you could compare the United States to say, Greece, instead of Germany, but only if you wanted to present an ill-informed opinion that compares apples to oranges. In the meantime, read up on the use of wind power and other renewable energy sources in Germany since that?s the subject at hand.

I expect Germany to own Greece in a couple of years, so your point is moot.

Regarding wind and "renewable" energy in Germany, the solar is broke, as it should be.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,809439,00.html

In terms of wind, I expect the Germans to protest once the giant windmills are up their asses.

Or maybe not. They are already indoctrinated, and well-trained.

Posted on: 2012/2/7 1:21

Re: Bayonne the new Netherlands ?

#28

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Quote:

stillinjc wrote:
Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

Frank_M wrote:
An ill-informed public represents a weakness that has a negative effect on an entire society. I don?t care if you identify yourself as conservative or liberal, only that you use your head in a way that allows you to comprehend both the strengths and weakness of your own opinions in both a subjective and objective context. Unfortunately, the refusal to be self-critical is a selfish trend that seems to be more prevalent among Americans than our peers in other advanced nations. If you don?t see the weaknesses of your own opinions, there?s a good chance that they are poorly formed opinions. Go ahead and vote on those grounds if you like, just don?t be surprised to find you've made a laughing stock of your nation.

Well put. Unfortunately the modern American political system is based on swaying the "undecided", who are usually there due to ignorance. Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of ignorance among the decided voters, but they're not being contested. So the basic campaign is more or less who can say the simplest, most stripped of nuance argument for themselves and their policy. Nuance doesn't work on the ignorant, they have no context to process it in.

@Frank_M and brewster:

Yeah, in Europe the voters are much less ignorant than here (or so they say), and lately it has economically sucked over there much more than here.

The bottom line is that it does not matter.

The "smart" Europeans got in an even deeper shite than "dumb" Americans.

I suppose you could compare the United States to say, Greece, instead of Germany, but only if you wanted to present an ill-informed opinion that compares apples to oranges. In the meantime, read up on the use of wind power and other renewable energy sources in Germany since that?s the subject at hand.

Posted on: 2012/2/6 22:15

JCbiscuit

Re: Bayonne the new Netherlands ?

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Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

stillinjc wrote:
I saw huge farms of these things while travelling in the South of Spain last year.

Very disturbing visually.

Hated them.

We want our power, but apparently only if we don't see what it does to our health or it craps up somebody else's yard. We dam rivers, burn coal and thereby pollute the air and water with everything from particulates to mercury. We have nuclear, but not in our town, and don't even think about storing it's waste!

Windmills are great as a symbol of paying the piper, that we can't completely externalize the cost of our consumptive lifestyle with a check to PSE&G. You want visually disturbing, visit a destroyed mountain and it's streams in West Virginia or a Montana open pit coal mine. Or a pine forest in the Rockies dying of global warming.

this.

Posted on: 2012/2/6 22:05

CatDog

Re: Bayonne the new Netherlands ?

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stillinjc wrote:
I saw huge farms of these things while travelling in the South of Spain last year.

Very disturbing visually.

Hated them.

I don't understand how people can see windmills and think they're "disturbing visually." Driving through the midwest and California and seeing windmills crawling along the hills, I always thought they were beautiful. A hell of a lot prettier than a coal-plant or smog, to be sure. I think the people who complain about the looks are the same kind of people that complain about clotheslines in backyards, and (god forbid) live music in bars.

Also, Ianmac is a dickface, but everyone knows that already.

Posted on: 2012/2/6 21:34

Re: Bayonne the new Netherlands ?

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Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

Frank_M wrote:
An ill-informed public represents a weakness that has a negative effect on an entire society. I don?t care if you identify yourself as conservative or liberal, only that you use your head in a way that allows you to comprehend both the strengths and weakness of your own opinions in both a subjective and objective context. Unfortunately, the refusal to be self-critical is a selfish trend that seems to be more prevalent among Americans than our peers in other advanced nations. If you don?t see the weaknesses of your own opinions, there?s a good chance that they are poorly formed opinions. Go ahead and vote on those grounds if you like, just don?t be surprised to find you've made a laughing stock of your nation.

Well put. Unfortunately the modern American political system is based on swaying the "undecided", who are usually there due to ignorance. Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of ignorance among the decided voters, but they're not being contested. So the basic campaign is more or less who can say the simplest, most stripped of nuance argument for themselves and their policy. Nuance doesn't work on the ignorant, they have no context to process it in.

@Frank_M and brewster:

Yeah, in Europe the voters are much less ignorant than here (or so they say), and lately it has economically sucked over there much more than here.

The bottom line is that it does not matter.

The "smart" Europeans got in an even deeper shite than "dumb" Americans.

Posted on: 2012/2/6 20:53

Re: Bayonne the new Netherlands ?

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Quote:

Frank_M wrote:
An ill-informed public represents a weakness that has a negative effect on an entire society. I don?t care if you identify yourself as conservative or liberal, only that you use your head in a way that allows you to comprehend both the strengths and weakness of your own opinions in both a subjective and objective context. Unfortunately, the refusal to be self-critical is a selfish trend that seems to be more prevalent among Americans than our peers in other advanced nations. If you don?t see the weaknesses of your own opinions, there?s a good chance that they are poorly formed opinions. Go ahead and vote on those grounds if you like, just don?t be surprised to find you've made a laughing stock of your nation.

Well put. Unfortunately the modern American political system is based on swaying the "undecided", who are usually there due to ignorance. Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of ignorance among the decided voters, but they're not being contested. So the basic campaign is more or less who can say the simplest, most stripped of nuance argument for themselves and their policy. Nuance doesn't work on the ignorant, they have no context to process it in.

Posted on: 2012/2/6 20:36

Re: Bayonne the new Netherlands ?

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An ill-informed public represents a weakness that has a negative effect on an entire society. I don?t care if you identify yourself as conservative or liberal, only that you use your head in a way that allows you to comprehend both the strengths and weakness of your own opinions in both a subjective and objective context. Unfortunately, the refusal to be self-critical is a selfish trend that seems to be more prevalent among Americans than our peers in other advanced nations. If you don?t see the weaknesses of your own opinions, there?s a good chance that they are poorly formed opinions. Go ahead and vote on those grounds if you like, just don?t be surprised to find you've made a laughing stock of your nation.

Posted on: 2012/2/6 19:18

Re: Bayonne the new Netherlands ?

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Quote:

stillinjc wrote:
Quote:

ianmac47 wrote:
Quote:

stillinjc wrote:
Quote:

heights wrote:
Quote:

ianmac47 wrote:
What I love about you is that no matter how uneducated on a topic you are, you still think you deserve an opinion. I think that its a true testament to the American dream.

So voting should not be a right unless educated ?

Nice catch, heights.

The best I ever saw on jclist.

In his quote, ianmac47 channeled the spirit of American elitist liberalism -"unless you are educated (like us), you shall have no voice. WE will be your voice, because WE know better".

Crash and burn, ianmac.

Liberal elite, and proud to be it.

Hard-core Reagan conservative, and likewise proud of it.

There is nothing wrong in principle with your political views. But when people like Boris start ignorantly ranting about a topic without having a fundamental understanding of what they are ranting about, that's not a valid position nor is attempting to make an argument against a position by further exposing that ignorance. Why yes, call me elitist if you want. I won't apologize for expecting a person to possess some basic knowledge on a topic before attempting to enter the discourse.

Posted on: 2012/2/6 19:18

Re: Bayonne the new Netherlands ?

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Quote:

ianmac47 wrote:
Quote:

stillinjc wrote:
Quote:

heights wrote:
Quote:

ianmac47 wrote:
What I love about you is that no matter how uneducated on a topic you are, you still think you deserve an opinion. I think that its a true testament to the American dream.

So voting should not be a right unless educated ?

Nice catch, heights.

The best I ever saw on jclist.

In his quote, ianmac47 channeled the spirit of American elitist liberalism -"unless you are educated (like us), you shall have no voice. WE will be your voice, because WE know better".

Crash and burn, ianmac.

Liberal elite, and proud to be it.

Hard-core Reagan conservative, and likewise proud of it.

Posted on: 2012/2/6 18:50

Re: Bayonne the new Netherlands ?

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Quote:

stillinjc wrote:
Quote:

heights wrote:
Quote:

ianmac47 wrote:
What I love about you is that no matter how uneducated on a topic you are, you still think you deserve an opinion. I think that its a true testament to the American dream.

So voting should not be a right unless educated ?

Nice catch, heights.

The best I ever saw on jclist.

In his quote, ianmac47 channeled the spirit of American elitist liberalism -"unless you are educated (like us), you shall have no voice. WE will be your voice, because WE know better".

Crash and burn, ianmac.

Liberal elite, and proud to be it.

Posted on: 2012/2/6 18:45

Re: Bayonne the new Netherlands ?

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Quote:

heights wrote:
Quote:

ianmac47 wrote:
What I love about you is that no matter how uneducated on a topic you are, you still think you deserve an opinion. I think that its a true testament to the American dream.

So voting should not be a right unless educated ?

Nice catch, heights.

The best I ever saw on jclist.

In his quote, ianmac47 channeled the spirit of American elitist liberalism -"unless you are educated (like us), you shall have no voice. WE will be your voice, because WE know better".

Crash and burn, ianmac.

Posted on: 2012/2/6 18:36

Re: Bayonne the new Netherlands ?

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ianmac47 wrote:
Quote:

borisp wrote:
Nah. They are great as symbols of stupidity.

You see, since winds are not always blowing, and the electricity can not be stored in large quantities, windmills do have to have a conventional power as a backup in any case.

And so they are extremely inefficient.

What I love about you is that no matter how uneducated on a topic you are, you still think you deserve an opinion. I think that its a true testament to the American dream.

Conventional sources of power do a poor job of reacting to fluctuations in electricity demand. Nuclear plants, for instance, take weeks to go from "off" to "on" while coal and oil plants require days. Even natural gas plants require twelve hours or more to start producing electricity.

Energy sources like wind turbines and hydroelectric dams can begin producing electricity within seconds. An unexpected spike in electrical needs can be satisfied for instance by releasing water from a hydroelectric generating station or by connecting the wind turbine to the generator far more quickly than firing up convention sources of power.

Moreover, when sources like hydroelectric and wind operate in tandem, they serve as a battery system designed to store energy. The wind turbine can pump water into an upper reservoir when electricity demand is low. When energy demands are high, water is released from the upper reservoir and run through the hydroelectric generator releasing the energy stored by pumping water to higher ground. The reservoir is like a giant battery of stored energy and the windmill serves as the charger.

Well done! I didn't have the stomach to wack Boris on the nose again. The rote Heritage talking points just make me ill. I specifically mentioned mercury because of the nonsense about them and CFL's. The mercury kept out of the environment by using CFL's to reduce coal electricity production greatly outweighs the amounts put in by CFL breakage and disposal.

Posted on: 2012/2/6 18:35

heights

Re: Bayonne the new Netherlands ?

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ianmac47 wrote:
What I love about you is that no matter how uneducated on a topic you are, you still think you deserve an opinion. I think that its a true testament to the American dream.

So voting should not be a right unless educated ?

Posted on: 2012/2/6 18:28

Re: Bayonne the new Netherlands ?

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borisp wrote:
Nah. They are great as symbols of stupidity.

You see, since winds are not always blowing, and the electricity can not be stored in large quantities, windmills do have to have a conventional power as a backup in any case.

And so they are extremely inefficient.

What I love about you is that no matter how uneducated on a topic you are, you still think you deserve an opinion. I think that its a true testament to the American dream.

Conventional sources of power do a poor job of reacting to fluctuations in electricity demand. Nuclear plants, for instance, take weeks to go from "off" to "on" while coal and oil plants require days. Even natural gas plants require twelve hours or more to start producing electricity.

Energy sources like wind turbines and hydroelectric dams can begin producing electricity within seconds. An unexpected spike in electrical needs can be satisfied for instance by releasing water from a hydroelectric generating station or by connecting the wind turbine to the generator far more quickly than firing up convention sources of power.

Moreover, when sources like hydroelectric and wind operate in tandem, they serve as a battery system designed to store energy. The wind turbine can pump water into an upper reservoir when electricity demand is low. When energy demands are high, water is released from the upper reservoir and run through the hydroelectric generator releasing the energy stored by pumping water to higher ground. The reservoir is like a giant battery of stored energy and the windmill serves as the charger.

Posted on: 2012/2/6 15:07

Re: Bayonne the new Netherlands ?

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borisp wrote:
Quote:

brewster wrote:

Quote:
Windmills are great as a symbol of paying the piper,

Nah. They are great as symbols of stupidity.

You see, since winds are not always blowing, and the electricity can not be stored in large quantities, windmills do have to have a conventional power as a backup in any case.

And so they are extremely inefficient.

So much so, that Spain that embarked on that "green power" project so much earlier than US... let me find it... Ah, here, - Espana admite que la economia verde que vendio a Obama es una ruina.

And, as for whole "becoming Netherlands", what do you know, - Dutch fall out of love with windmills.

Wanna more? here.

To think how much money - trillions of dollars in total, - people wasted on all those stupid schemes, - and all for no reason other than Al-Gore-fueled hysteria over "man made global warming".

What does Al Gore have to do with anything? You would still be nearsighted not to understand that the production of electricity through coal and oil combustion and uranium fission has little place in the long-term future of human civilization on Earth for countless reasons. If you?re merely concerned with the events that will occur within the time span of your own life, you may have a point, but it?s not a very enlightened perspective that only considers such an insignificantly small measure of time. The Earth is ripe with low-density sources of energy that aren?t as mesmerizing as a burning flame or the blue glow of Cerenkov radiation, but they?re as close to perpetual as we have. In fact, there may be no greater symbol of stupidity than to ignore them in favor of short-term solutions.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-04 ... lectric-power-prices.html

Posted on: 2012/2/6 14:49

neverleft

Re: Bayonne the new Netherlands ?

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What? Obama would never lie to us?err I mean all of you. He was just talking wind (energy) in his State of the Union address a few weeks ago.

Windmills will never fall out of ?flavor? in Jersey.

http://www.windmillrestaurantsusa.com/index.html

http://www.monmouthcountylife.com/wp- ... oads/2009/09/windmill.jpg

( add this place to the best hot dog list)

Posted on: 2012/2/5 17:09

borisp

Re: Bayonne the new Netherlands ?

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brewster wrote:
We dam rivers, burn coal and thereby pollute the air and water with everything from particulates to mercury.

I would advise you not to mention mercury. I mean, if enviros want to force us to use CFLs instead of incandescent lights, - they should avoid mentioning mercury.

Quote:

We have nuclear, but not in our town, and don't even think about storing it's waste!

Why not? I have always thought that thinking is preferable to just making wild-eyed claims.

Quote:

Windmills are great as a symbol of paying the piper,

Nah. They are great as symbols of stupidity.

You see, since winds are not always blowing, and the electricity can not be stored in large quantities, windmills do have to have a conventional power as a backup in any case.

And so they are extremely inefficient.

So much so, that Spain that embarked on that "green power" project so much earlier than US... let me find it... Ah, here, - Espana admite que la economia verde que vendio a Obama es una ruina.

And, as for whole "becoming Netherlands", what do you know, - Dutch fall out of love with windmills.

Wanna more? here.

To think how much money - trillions of dollars in total, - people wasted on all those stupid schemes, - and all for no reason other than Al-Gore-fueled hysteria over "man made global warming".

Posted on: 2012/2/5 6:08

heights

Re: Bayonne the new Netherlands ?

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neverleft wrote:
Bikes ? I thought you would have said tulips or dikes.
I forgot you newcomers don?t know much about Bayonne..it was a big time weed town back in the day.
And let?s not forget who lives there?check out the drugs and hookers in Jason Jones Bayonne?

Usually it's all 3 even though I'm a bike buff plus I always knew that Holland was always known for Tulips, dikes, bikes, and even painters. If you are insuating that I was born yesterday well sometimes I could project myself as a newcomer. I am a born & bred J.C. biker and have spent many years bouncing around Bayonne growing up in the next town over, so much for the tourist/newbie jokes.

Posted on: 2012/2/4 23:55

Re: Bayonne the new Netherlands ?

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brewster wrote:
Quote:

stillinjc wrote:
I saw huge farms of these things while travelling in the South of Spain last year.

Very disturbing visually.

Hated them.

We want our power, but apparently only if we don't see what it does to our health or it craps up somebody else's yard. We dam rivers, burn coal and thereby pollute the air and water with everything from particulates to mercury. We have nuclear, but not in our town, and don't even think about storing it's waste!

Windmills are great as a symbol of paying the piper, that we can't completely externalize the cost of our consumptive lifestyle with a check to PSE&G. You want visually disturbing, visit a destroyed mountain and it's streams in West Virginia or a Montana open pit coal mine. Or a pine forest in the Rockies dying of global warming.

I guess the windmills are great as a symbol of paing the piper. That's all they are good for, because if you want to derive a meaningful percentage of energy from them, you'll have a windmill up your arse.

But yeah, they definitely can make you feel better, like solar...

Posted on: 2012/2/4 23:22

neverleft

Re: Bayonne the new Netherlands ?

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Bikes ? I thought you would have said tulips or dikes.

I forgot you newcomers don?t know much about Bayonne..it was a big time weed town back in the day.

And let?s not forget who lives there?check out the drugs and hookers in Jason Jones Bayonne?

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed ... 2010/jason-jones--bayonne

(The hilarious Jason Jones piece starts around 5:04)

Posted on: 2012/2/4 22:51

JCorNYC

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I've seen rows of wind turbines in Atlantic City since last year...

Posted on: 2012/2/4 22:25

Re: Bayonne the new Netherlands ?

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DragonXJC wrote:
And I thought this thread was going to be about marijuana and brothels. :(

Never too late...

Posted on: 2012/2/4 21:51

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Re: Bayonne the new Netherlands ?

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And I thought this thread was going to be about marijuana and brothels. :(

Posted on: 2012/2/4 18:56

heights

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corybraiterman wrote:
Good for Bayonne. It'd be nice if more places started doing this (JC).

First I thought it was a posting about bicycle commuting. It seems windmills are popular all over Europe such as use in the south eastern section (heel) of Italy.
Scroll to History: 1.1.1 Blue H Technologies in link below.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floating_wind_turbine

Posted on: 2012/2/3 18:55

Re: Bayonne the new Netherlands ?

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Quote:

stillinjc wrote:
I saw huge farms of these things while travelling in the South of Spain last year.

Very disturbing visually.

Hated them.

We want our power, but apparently only if we don't see what it does to our health or it craps up somebody else's yard. We dam rivers, burn coal and thereby pollute the air and water with everything from particulates to mercury. We have nuclear, but not in our town, and don't even think about storing it's waste!

Windmills are great as a symbol of paying the piper, that we can't completely externalize the cost of our consumptive lifestyle with a check to PSE&G. You want visually disturbing, visit a destroyed mountain and it's streams in West Virginia or a Montana open pit coal mine. Or a pine forest in the Rockies dying of global warming.

Posted on: 2012/2/3 18:52

corybraiterman

Re: Bayonne the new Netherlands ?

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Good for Bayonne. It'd be nice if more places started doing this (JC).

Posted on: 2012/2/3 17:57

neverleft

Re: Bayonne the new Netherlands ?

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Just saw this in today?s USA Today(2/3/12)..it looks like NJ will be getting a farm of it?s own.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/e ... ore-wind-farms/52940438/1

Go drive by that one in Bayonne I must admit it is scary.. I hope those blades never fall off.

Posted on: 2012/2/3 17:53