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Re: Jersey City Playground Rules
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Newbie
 
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Alanwright---thanks for the municode by the way...I had checked it out the day of the police encounter, and it seemed vague at best. It helped clarify the fact that the playground isn't the intended place for soccer.
Posted on: 2010/5/6 1:05
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Re: Jersey City Playground Rules
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Home away from home
 
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I agree. Please see my response in the Hamilton Park thread: http://jclist.com/modules/newbb/viewt ... id=240485#forumpost240485
Posted on: 2010/5/5 21:26
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Re: Jersey City Playground Rules
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Home away from home
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I agree. Once again, it's the "let them have what they want or they'll kill us" argument. That excuse is bankrupt.
Posted on: 2010/5/5 20:16
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Re: Jersey City Playground Rules
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Not too shy to talk
 
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Quote: Sorry radryan03 but I beg to differ. Comments had nothing to do with stereotypes (case in point the recent murder at UVA... wealthy white kid that probably was raised with a "silver spoon" and did whatever he pleased and got whatever he asked for). You either have respect for the rules, society, your elders, etc. or you don't. Whichever aspect of life you choose to disrespect and to what degree will determine your ethical makeup and your future outcome in life whether you are white, black, brown, yellow, purple, blue, what have you. Just because the local government has not put additional resources into more green spaces, doesn't constitute breaking the rules of the playground and putting other children in potential danger. I certainly support more greenspaces for kids to play soccer, skateboard, play basketball, etc. but it doesn't mean one should make up their own rules just because we don't have those amenities available in the community. (BTW, last I checked the only non-Healy ticket person elected to city council was Fulop, so if the rest of your districts' don't have an advocate to enhance the quality of life in your neighborhood, then you should've rallied around a candidate that would have fought to bring about change to your part of the community.)
Posted on: 2010/5/5 20:16
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Re: Jersey City Playground Rules
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Home away from home
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I'm a bit disturbed by the false dichotomies floating around here: either it's rough soccer where soccer shouldn't be played... or roving street gangs. Hmm... I think the OP was hoping for an option in-between.
But more accurately, I think the OP was hoping for a list of muni/park codes (which I provided but everyone seems to ignore, conveniently). On the day of the boring soccer debacle, the OP was hoping for a reasonable response from the cop: "hey kids, go play on the grass and show some respect for this dude and his toddler." That's too difficult to imagine? For some cops and from some people on this site... obviously it is too much damn trouble to find aggreeable solutions.
Posted on: 2010/5/5 20:03
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Re: Jersey City Playground Rules
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Home away from home
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At least they were doing something recreational rather then running in wild packs and robbing people like a lot of youths in JC are doing nowadays. Yes, I would be aggravated about a flying soccer ball dropping my kid, what happened to the old adage kids will be kids? It was soccer, it wasn't skateboarding, were they intentionally aiming for your head? I don't think so... The cops could have suggested a more open spot to play in the park though, but I am sure they are just greatful they are doing normal kid things at that point
Posted on: 2010/5/5 19:44
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Re: Jersey City Playground Rules
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Home away from home
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Quote:
Ridiculous - because I would prefer not to be execute stereotypes on my community. I am in a forum of educated people, yet everyone wants to play ignorant to the fact that we are minority. We have the ability to empathize and rationalize with more background and knowledge - which means we can attack problems dimensionally and expect more from ourselves than to fall back on limp-dicked ordinance, and fighting with children and cops. Has anyone considered where these kids would play soccer if it wasn't on the community playground? What is our community missing - maybe something for everyone? Where is the local soccer field? Have you suggested to your local council person that maybe we need more green space? Instead of looking to the local cops to resolve a 'kiddy' issue, you need to start looking to yourself (the educated adults). This is a selfish topic. We pay ridiculous taxes to pay for things like green space and public facilities - start asking for them! I do. Just remember that delinquency, disrespect, and poor decision making are limited to no one - regardless of where they live and who they are.
Posted on: 2010/5/5 19:26
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Re: Jersey City Playground Rules
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Not too shy to talk
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Quote:
This is not about vilifying teenagers, who obvioulsy need a place to play ball (for example, in the surrounding park area), but about the police officer's rude and unprofessional conduct in this situation. She could have suggested that the kids play in a different area of the park or tried to diffuse the situation in a similar manner. Instead, she chose to ridicule the adults in front of the teens, who learned that it is not necessary to respect other people around them. Amen maxine. what radryan03 doesn't realize (or doesn't want to admit) is that these kids that learn to be disrespectful to adults, authority figures, etc. at a young age will be the ones committing what he refers to as the reals crimes (manslaughter, vandalism, etc.) in the near future.
Posted on: 2010/5/5 17:35
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Re: Jersey City Playground Rules
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Newbie
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Just to add to this thread:
It was actually the kids who approached the cops to complain about the "evil adults" who told them not to shoot the soccer ball at the playground equipment after the ball had narrowly missed my 3-year-old son's head. The police officer then ridiculed my husband, who had asked them to intervene on behalf of the young children. My husband and his friend had to leave with the little kids. This is not about vilifying teenagers, who obvioulsy need a place to play ball (for example, in the surrounding park area), but about the police officer's rude and unprofessional conduct in this situation. She could have suggested that the kids play in a different area of the park or tried to diffuse the situation in a similar manner. Instead, she chose to ridicule the adults in front of the teens, who learned that it is not necessary to respect other people around them.
Posted on: 2010/5/5 15:16
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Re: Jersey City Playground Rules
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Home away from home
Joined:
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1. LOL - interesting how you went personal. I can only imagine how you handled yourself with both the rowdy children and the cops. Maybe you should consider looking to yourself for the resulting inaction. 2. What are you doing with a new born infant in a park? I'm not sure any park is intended for a new born. 3. Cry me an effing river - manslaughter and real crime is an issue in Jersey City. Kids playing inappropriately in a park is not. The general lack of empathy for the makeup of this city (residents to cops and everything in-between) kills me. We are not always going to get our way in this town - regardless of rules and regulation. Let\'s focus on getting this JC to comply with the law and then maybe things like kids playing on the wrong playground can be important.
Posted on: 2010/5/5 15:02
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Re: Jersey City Playground Rules
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Home away from home
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One certainly cannot expect Jersey City Police to know anything about the laws of the City.
If they DID they'd be lawyers. Remember, that cop was the kid next to you in home-room who couldn't get into college because he was too stupid...and he STILL carries that chip on his shoulder but NOW he has a gun. So DON'T pester him and let him continue sleeping in the squad car with the loud siren. Of course times are different now...he could get into the UNIVERSITYY OF PHOENIX and be an assistant tech of some sort.
Posted on: 2010/5/5 14:10
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Re: Jersey City Playground Rules
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Not too shy to talk
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Cop out? I don't begrudge the kids a soccer game but there is a place for that and it's not on a toddler's play area. STOP rewarding bad behavior. This is the same situation with all the kids that skateboard at the Owen Grundy Pier in downtown JC. Signs are clearly posted that this is not allowed yet every time I am down there, there they area. And 99% of the time there is cop at the foot of the Pier just standing there and letting it happen. They are tearing up that sitting area and stage and it looks like crap.
Posted on: 2010/5/5 13:46
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Re: Jersey City Playground Rules
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Home away from home
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When you saw the kids playing soccer in the playground, did you ask them to take it somewhere else before calling the cops, or were the kids a little too rough to confront?
Posted on: 2010/5/5 10:59
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Re: Jersey City Playground Rules
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Newbie
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radryan,
You should be ashamed that you are falling into the SAME category as these police officers I encountered. It is PRECICELY YOU who should be showing these children respect for rules, discipline, etc. Is is a Big #OOPS#ing Deal because it is part of your job to enforce rules and YES, 'shoving code' should produce the desired effect because the desired effect is ENFORCEMENT of the code. It's so convenient to fall back on 'it's the parents' responsibility' excuse and make on the spot decisions about what should be enforced and what is a waste of your time. If you were in the park with your newborn infant strapped to your chest and a flying soccer ball hit them, would you be so flip about letting the kids have their fun? Would that be a LITTLE closer to vehicular manslaughter? I am sick and tired of categorizing some things as not important and LESS worthy of enforcement. So, If I get stabbed in the neck, I should be grateful that I didn't get stabbed in the chest? And the perp should not be tracked down with the same intensity? same awesome logic. Thanks JCPD! By the way, I am NOT surprised, as you put it, I am disgusted. AND, why do you believe that the alternative to playing ball in the park is vandalism and playing in the streets? Just another way for the police to make excuses for not doing paperwork. It's bullshit and you know it.
Posted on: 2010/5/5 3:20
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Re: Jersey City Playground Rules
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Home away from home
Joined:
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I am not arguing the current outcome as correct. I am saying this very quickly goes in the BFD category and wonder why is anyone surprised? Do you really think shoving the code in the officer face is going to produce the desired result?
If the kids are not getting that discipline at home... what makes you think a cops correction in a playground is going to result in the realignment of decision making? We are not talking about stop signs and vehicular manslaughter - we are talking about \'playing children.\' If the worst thing in your day (while in Jersey City) is kids playing on the wrong play area - you are a lucky person.
Posted on: 2010/5/4 19:03
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Re: Jersey City Playground Rules
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Home away from home
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Well put. It's like saying if I ran I stop sign, well, at least he slowed down a little. If they learn it's okay to break those ruse, esp. when someone complains to the authorities about it and nothing is done, they may try to push the envelope and see what other rules they can break and get away with.
Posted on: 2010/5/4 14:31
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Re: Jersey City Playground Rules
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Home away from home
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Cop out? I don't begrudge the kids a soccer game but there is a place for that and it's not on a toddler's play area. STOP rewarding bad behavior.
Posted on: 2010/5/4 14:23
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Re: Jersey City Playground Rules
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Home away from home
Joined:
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Let me preface by saying my post is not attack on your perspective, but just another approach and opinion. I am with you - rowdy kids are obnoxious and they would have likely irritated me as well, but lets keep this in perspective:
1. Rowdy kids playing soccer on a playground VS. playing in the street, vandalizing the neighborhood, and engaging in generally questionable behavior 2. Police officers (as children) were more likely to have been with their mothers for an afternoon out VS. being rowdy children in a playground As a police officer I probably would have put you through the same straights.
Posted on: 2010/5/4 13:59
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Re: Jersey City Playground Rules
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Home away from home
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This doesn't seem like a problem worth fighting at the time it's happening. Too much opportunity for conflict, etc., unless someone is actively at risk of being hurt.
But, to answer the question you've asked, try this for JC. http://www.municode.com/Library/ClientListing.aspx?stateID=30 And then follow the links. There are a few areas which seem to address your concern, including a few "don't be boisterous" catch-alls. 239-12(F) is in the section relating to picnic areas, but it seems closest. ***************************************** Chapter 239 - Parks: ? 239-1. - Definitions. As used herein, the following terms shall have the meanings indicated: ATHLETIC ACTIVITY - Any activity in which a ball and other athletic equipment is used, including baseball, basketball, football, handball, soccer, tennis and ice skating. DIRECTOR - The head of the Department of Public Works. PARK - A park, reservation, playground, ballfield, beach, recreation center or any other area in the city, owned or used by the city, and devoted to active or passive recreation and/or athletic activities. ? 239-12. - Picnic areas; camping; horseback riding. No person in a park shall: A. Picnic or lunch in a place other than those designated for that purpose. Attendants shall have the authority to regulate the activities in such areas when necessary to prevent congestion and to secure the maximum use for the comfort and convenience of all. Visitors shall comply with any directions given to achieve this end. ... F. Take part in or abet the playing of any games involving thrown or otherwise propelled objects such as balls, stones, arrows, javelins or model airplanes except in areas set apart for such forms of recreation. The playing of rough or comparatively dangerous games such as football, baseball and quoits is prohibited except on the fields and courts or areas provided therefor. Roller-skating shall be confined to those areas specifically designated for such pastime. ? 239-13. - Alcoholic beverages; firecrackers; loitering; soliciting alms; fires; gambling. No person in a park shall: ... G. Enter an area posted as closed to the public, nor shall any person use or abet the use of any area in violation of posted notices. ... J. Sleep or protractedly lounge on the seats or benches or other areas or engage in loud, boisterous, threatening, abusive, insulting or indecent language or engage in any disorderly conduct or behavior tending to a breach of the public peace. ... L. Disturb or interfere unreasonably with any person or party occupying any area or participating in any activity under the authority of a permit. ? 239-16. - Enforcement. A. The Director, the police and park employees shall, in connection with their duties imposed by law, diligently enforce the provisions of this chapter. B. The Director, the police and any park employee shall have the authority to eject from the park any person acting in violation of this chapter. C. The Director, the police and any park employee shall have the authority to seize and confiscate any property, thing or device in the park or used in violation of this chapter.
Posted on: 2010/5/4 10:37
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Re: Jersey City Playground Rules
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Home away from home
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Another stellar job by some mookish JCPD. In any case the rules are usually posted near the playground or on the fence surrounding it. In general though, the prevailing attitude is to let the teenagers do whatever they want. "Better they do this instead of mugging somebody" will be the usual response. Basically the kids are shown little discipline and never learn the true meaning of respect. In the past in Hamilton Park we were expected to allow basketball games at all hours of the night. Don't want to anger the children! In other words, you don't have to be rich to be spoiled.
Posted on: 2010/5/4 5:02
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Jersey City Playground Rules
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Newbie
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I had an unfortunate experience with Jersey City Police this evening in Riverview-Fiske Park in the Heights after a friend and I tried to stop a pack of rowdy kids from playing soccer in the enclosed playground area clearly intended for toddler, preschool and school-aged children (to 12 years).
Does anyone know where I can find an official list of regulations for playground areas within city parks? I just KNOW that soccer playing is not allowed, but I was told by the officers that I had to PROVE it to them, rather than ask the kids to stop playing ball. I plan on contacting the Dept of Public Works/Parks and Forestry tomorrow, but wondered if anyone knows of a published list somewhere online...no luck so far.
Posted on: 2010/5/4 3:01
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