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Re: Catch-Neuter-Release Programs Clearly Value Dogs' Lives Much More Than Cats' Lives
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Quite a regular
 
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Hey GP! All great ideas! I volunteer at the shelter every Sunday. Why don't you come on by and I'll introduce you to everyone. You can tell them your ideas for helping out all the animals. I'm sure they'd be happy to hear out of the box ideas to end the homeless animal population problem and find great homes for all the animals.
Posted on: 2010/2/26 0:40
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Re: Catch-Neuter-Release Programs Clearly Value Dogs' Lives Much More Than Cats' Lives
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Home away from home
 
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Dude?
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Posted on: 2010/2/24 22:41
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Re: Catch-Neuter-Release Programs Clearly Value Dogs' Lives Much More Than Cats' Lives
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Home away from home
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Dude, you lose simply by posting repeatedly in bold. . . .
Posted on: 2010/2/24 22:17
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"Someday a book will be written on how this city can be broke in the midst of all this development." ---Brewster
Oh, wait, there is one: The Jersey Sting. |
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Re: Catch-Neuter-Release Programs Clearly Value Dogs' Lives Much More Than Cats' Lives
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Newbie
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TNR is independent from LHS. In Jersey City it is run by a different non-profit so it is wrong of you to think that LHS would be involved in trapping animals at LSP.
And if you were truly involved with LHS you would know that they are having an open board meeting tonight.
Posted on: 2010/2/24 22:08
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Re: Catch-Neuter-Release Programs Clearly Value Dogs' Lives Much More Than Cats' Lives
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Home away from home
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I am not going to go round and round about this.
I have no issue with people who volunteer their own money and time to do Catch-Neuter-Release programs. I just don't think there should be more government money going to this without first seeing the detailed financial expenditures of a place like LHS. As I said, we called them about kittens in Liberty State Park and they would not get involved in any way. How much does LHS spend on dogs and how much on cats? I want to see the actual numbers -- also how many of those dogs are aggressive breed or from abusive homes? As you know, LHS has always been really pro-pit bulls and other fighting dogs. But I am not going to go round and round about this -- this topic can bring out the crazies & sock puppets. Quote:
Posted on: 2010/2/24 21:44
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Re: Catch-Neuter-Release Programs Clearly Value Dogs' Lives Much More Than Cats' Lives
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Home away from home
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I don't get what your point is GP. What would your suggestion be?
And some food for thought - there certainly are feral dogs in Jersey City. If you want to compare apples to apples, ie. feral dogs to feral cats, it would seem that the cats are more of a focus than the dogs which goes to negate your original statement that they're valued less than dogs.
Posted on: 2010/2/24 21:18
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Re: Catch-Neuter-Release Programs Clearly Value Dogs' Lives Much More Than Cats' Lives
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Home away from home
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral
The dictionary definition of a feral animal is one which has escaped from a domestic or captive status and is living more or less as a wild animal. Zoologists generally exclude from the ?feral? category animals which were genuinely wild before they escaped from captivity: neither lions escaped from a zoo nor the sea eagles (Haliaeetus albicilla) recently re-introduced into the UK are regarded as 'feral'. Examples of feral animals Feral dogs in Bucharest Dogs can revert to wildness, becoming predators little less effective than the big cats of like size. The Dingo is the oldest verifiable feral dog population, with a history of at least 3500 years (possibly more) since their original escape from domestication, although the pariah dogs of Asia may well be older feral populations. The Carolina Dog is the oldest feral dog population known in the Americas. The cat returns readily to a feral state if it has not been socialized properly in its young life. These cats, especially if left to proliferate, are frequently considered to be pests in both rural and urban areas, and may be blamed for devastating the bird, reptile and mammal populations. A local population of feral cats living in an urban area and using a common food source is sometimes called a feral cat colony. As feral cats multiply quickly, it is difficult to control their populations. Animal shelters attempt to adopt out feral cats, especially kittens, but often are overwhelmed with sheer numbers...
Posted on: 2010/2/24 21:12
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Re: Catch-Neuter-Release Programs Clearly Value Dogs' Lives Much More Than Cats' Lives
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Home away from home
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Quote:
I think you're confused about the difference between "feral" and "stray" - they are not the same. Stray animals are those that were raised by humans and somehow became lost/wandered away from home. These animals - both cats and dogs - can usually be "re-domesticated" and are candidates for adoption, even if they've been on their own for a while. Even animals that were abandoned because they were poorly socialized, aggressive, or abused (both cats and dogs) can often benefit from training and rehabilitation. Feral animals have NEVER lived indoors or had regular human contact. They do not respond to attempts to domesticate them. TNR really is the kindest approach - the alternative is not adoption but languishing in a shelter (torture for an animal that views the outdoors as its home) or euthanasia. If you really love cats (and/or dogs), one of the most humane thing you can do is spay/neuter your own pets!
Posted on: 2010/2/24 20:50
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Re: Catch-Neuter-Release Programs Clearly Value Dogs' Lives Much More Than Cats' Lives
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Just can't stay away
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Exactly. The folks in contact with the feral cats will foster and care for those who are adoptable and TNR those who are wild. On Valentine's Day there was an adoption event at the Grassroots center @ 54 Coles @ 3rd Street.: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Companion-Animal-Trust/144611599448 I'm sure there will be more events. There are cats right now waiting to be adopted. But there are many ways to assist in the care for feral cats aside from hands on. TNR needs support on all levels: These organizations do accept donations ;)
Posted on: 2010/2/24 20:36
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Re: Catch-Neuter-Release Programs Clearly Value Dogs' Lives Much More Than Cats' Lives
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Home away from home
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Quote:
You are entertaining the delusion that they are "saving" ANY feral animals. They aren't, they are simply controlling their population. With feral cats, they can TNR. They simply cannot release the dogs once they have them; if dogs were potentially less of a nuisance when loose, they'd probably TNR them as well. But a feral pitbull released into the city that bites someone is a nightmare they cannot allow, so they "keep them for adoption." Which means they probably take a trip to the incinerator after languishing in a pen for a few weeks. Note: the above post refers to animals that are running wild, not fluffy pets that escaped just yesterday. . . .
Posted on: 2010/2/24 20:20
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"Someday a book will be written on how this city can be broke in the midst of all this development." ---Brewster
Oh, wait, there is one: The Jersey Sting. |
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Re: Catch-Neuter-Release Programs Clearly Value Dogs' Lives Much More Than Cats' Lives
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Home away from home
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Feral cats have been living outdoors for thousands of years. Domestic cats came into existence about 10,000 years ago, when humans began farming. Cats were attracted to the rodents found near stored grain. Ever since then, cats have lived in close proximity to people. Until the invention of cat litter in the 1940s, there was simply no concept of keeping cats strictly indoors. Feral cats are a natural part of the landscape, and have been for thousands of years. They can be found all over, in every setting -- including the most urban, like Jersey City where we have tens of thousands of feral cats living on our streets.
In a Trap-Neuter-Return program, feral cats are trapped to be neutered. But they are not ?placed into the environment.? They are returned to their natural home. LHS nor does any other animal organization put tame/socialized cats on the streets. Not sure where you have gotten this idea from. Feral cats deserve to live but cannot be adopted so they are neutered and "returned" to their territory (home). As far as chosing cats over dogs, 72% of cats that enter shelters are killed so I can guarantee you that cats are not getting the one up on dogs by any stretch.
Posted on: 2010/2/24 19:12
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Re: Catch-Neuter-Release Programs Clearly Value Dogs' Lives Much More Than Cats' Lives
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Just can't stay away
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Please, sign up and attend a workshop with Companion Animal Trust:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Companion-Animal-Trust/144611599448 You will learn a great deal about feral cat psychology and the differences between cats and dog rescue. It is not simply an economic preference for dogs. A house cat's life is indeed a great deal longer than a feral cat's life. But the truth is we CAN make a difference in the ferals' lives. The stress of reproduction takes years off their lives. Helping these animals takes TIME as well as money and requires as much effort as saving the lives of dogs, but must be approached differently. Liberty Humane Society directed me to Companion Animal trust. I am a proud owner of a humane "cat trap." and I intend to start trapping the ferals I feed. I will haul them to be spayed/neutered. I will house them through their recovery and then I will release them. If everyone took part in this effort we would see a lot less cats on the street--not because they are dying.
Posted on: 2010/2/24 18:53
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Re: Catch-Neuter-Release Programs Clearly Value Dogs' Lives Much More Than Cats' Lives
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Home away from home
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every dog breed is potentially dangerous.
"undersocialized" or "aggressive" dogs are not to be equated with feral animals. some can be worked with, others cannot. dogs have 10k years of domestication to rely on people. cats are and have always been more independent. TNR is the lesser of evils.
Posted on: 2010/2/24 18:35
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Re: Catch-Neuter-Release Programs Clearly Value Dogs' Lives Much More Than Cats' Lives
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Home away from home
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Why don't you adopt the cats? Could you start with the pack of wild cats on Third Street by C-Town?
Posted on: 2010/2/24 18:35
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Re: Catch-Neuter-Release Programs Clearly Value Dogs' Lives Much More Than Cats' Lives
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Home away from home
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No dog breeds are considered truly dangerous, they're just trained to be. Cats don't always crave human attention so it seems more humane to curb the population. Dogs are pack animals more by nature and can be rehabilitated.
Posted on: 2010/2/24 18:32
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Re: Catch-Neuter-Release Programs Clearly Value Dogs' Lives Much More Than Cats' Lives
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Home away from home
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So you are saying that pit bulls (for example) that are "not well socialized" or perhaps even trained for "aggressive behavior" respond better to being "worked with" than so-called 'feral' cats? I called LHS a few years back about little kittens and adult cats in Liberty State Park and they would not get involved. Again, it all comes down to money and how it's spent -- saving one large dog costs much more than saving many cats. It is a choice!
Posted on: 2010/2/24 18:29
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Re: Catch-Neuter-Release Programs Clearly Value Dogs' Lives Much More Than Cats' Lives
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Home away from home
Joined:
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Truly feral cats cannot be worked with to make them social, friendly cats that will be comfortable living in a home.
I'm sure LHS works with cats that are shy or stressed or less social than some others, but those characteristics are not what makes a feral cat. It's comparing apples to oranges. Is TNR an ideal, perfect solution to the issue of feral cats? No. Is it preferable to euthanasia and currently the national standard in humane management of feral cats? You betcha.
Posted on: 2010/2/24 18:21
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Re: Catch-Neuter-Release Programs Clearly Value Dogs' Lives Much More Than Cats' Lives
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Home away from home
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But the financial resources can be used for say a pit bull (for example) that is brought in -- but is not "social enough" -- so are you saying pit bulls respond better to being "worked with" than cats? Leaving a cat out is signing their death warrant - they will be lucky to make it 3 years and it will be a very brutal life. They will live less than a quarter of their indoor life expectancy. It all comes down to money and how it will be spent -- saving one large dog costs much more than saving many cats. It is a choice!
Posted on: 2010/2/24 18:13
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Re: Catch-Neuter-Release Programs Clearly Value Dogs' Lives Much More Than Cats' Lives
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Home away from home
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"Catch-neuter-release."
They should try this with the HCDO.
Posted on: 2010/2/24 18:08
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Re: Catch-Neuter-Release Programs Clearly Value Dogs' Lives Much More Than Cats' Lives
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Home away from home
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I don't think this is a situation where LHS is valuing one life over another, it is simply a matter of what can be done with resources.
Dogs are different animals than cats. They form packs, and they can get aggressive. If LHS released a large dog that they had caught and then neutered, and that dog and others like it roamed around in a pack and god forbid chomped on someone's poodle or kid, there would be hell to pay. So they don't release dogs. As for cats, they simply do not have the resources to capture, neuter, house, and feed all the feral cats out there. There is a reason the department is called "Animal Control" and not "Super Kind Animal Welfare League." I do not know what LHS policy is regarding animal disposal for animals that are not adopted, but I am sure if every stray dog and cat were rounded up and held, their life span might actually go down, not up.
Posted on: 2010/2/24 17:54
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"Someday a book will be written on how this city can be broke in the midst of all this development." ---Brewster
Oh, wait, there is one: The Jersey Sting. |
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Re: Catch-Neuter-Release Programs Clearly Value Dogs' Lives Much More Than Cats' Lives
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Just can't stay away
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It is heart-breaking to see so many cats living on the streets of Jersey City. This is a serious problem that has become out of control because there has never been a humane policy--never been ANY policy to cope with feral cats in this city. ONE would LOVE to see every cat find a home, but one must understand that not all cats can be domesticated. For the most part, a kitten has a brief window to bond with humans. Maybe feral cats are different from stray dogs. Life on the "streets" without the trauma of fertility is the best we can offer these cats. It's a reality for everywhere. I know "cat feeders" in other towns. I have asked them for guidance and they all believe in Catch-Nueter-Release. They know from experience a feral cat doesn't take to an indoor home life easily--if at all.
I wanted to move from Jersey City when I saw how many cats were living on the streets and saw so little notice taken of them. I have, thankfully, found fliers for Companion Animal Trust, a grass roots training program for concerned/horrified members of the community to begin to control the feral cat problem. They hold workshops in Jersey City. I attended one on a Saturday last July in City Hall. It changed my perspective on Jersey City and made me think I could continue to live here and maybe make a difference. There are people all over JC who care for these cats--people who feed colonies in sweltering heat, rain,sleet, snow. They provide winter shelters and they control the population through spay/neuter. If you see a "clipped" ear--usually a left ear, you know that cat has been spayed/neutered--someone cared for that cat. I see more and more clipped ears these days and it is a relief. PLEASE do research and publicize this movement. The MOST HUMANE SYSTEM IS Catch-Neuter-Release. Check out Companion Animal Trust on facebook: http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/p ... Trust/144611599448?ref=ts or look up hobokitties.com I don't want to forget any of these organizations working hard to make a difference--so dig into the literature out there. Ask about Catch-Neuter-Release at Liberty Humane... Of course when a street cat is friendly enough to be adopted they are indeed taken to Liberty Humane or cared for in a foster home until a forever home is found. My husband and I found a wonderful home for a sweet male, born in our neighbor's yard this October. We have his brother in our home and five other families have the rest of his litter-mates. Thankfully their mom was spayed and ear clipped! And she is alive and well, living outdoors with her winter shelter in the yard.
Posted on: 2010/2/24 17:15
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Re: Catch-Neuter-Release Programs Clearly Value Dogs' Lives Much More Than Cats' Lives
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Home away from home
Joined:
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The only cats that are TNR'd are feral cats, cats that are not social enough to be adopted. These cats have lived outdoors and developed resources to survive better than your average indoor cat. No one is recommending (to my knowledge) that friendly cats be put outside to live their lives.
You do realize that the only option for these kinds of cats when brought to a shelter is euthanasia, right?
Posted on: 2010/2/24 17:11
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Re: Catch-Neuter-Release Programs Clearly Value Dogs' Lives Much More Than Cats' Lives
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Newbie
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I don't think you can compare the two. There are many more feral cats than stray dogs.
And it isn't really a question of what is cost effective, it is more about what is realistic and feasible. The majority of feral cats are not adoptable, so, even if LHS had the capacity to shelter them, bringing them there wouldn't make a difference. There are really only two choices - TNR or euthanasia. At least with TNR people are trying to nip the problem in the bud - by preventing overpopulation in the first place.
Posted on: 2010/2/24 17:09
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Catch-Neuter-Release Programs Clearly Value Dogs' Lives Much More Than Cats' Lives
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Home away from home
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I do think it is unfair that LHS and others seem to be adopting the Catch-Neuter-Release program for cats-- they clearly value dogs' lives much more than cats' lives - the whole idea of leaving cats out on the street might be cost effective -- but it is wrong -- outdoor cats only live a few brutal years - nothing like their full long indoor lives.
Why does the bulk of government money go to finding homes for big dogs - many of which are dangerous breeds? Why do cats get so short changed?
Posted on: 2010/2/24 16:17
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