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Re: Controversial rapper Jim Jones to speak at Jersey City's "HIV/AIDS and the Hip-Hop Generation" e
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 City nixes rapper's school appearance, citing 'violent' lyrics Wednesday, June 11, 2008 By PAUL KOEPP JOURNAL STAFF WRITER The invitation for rapper and hip-hop mogul Jim Jones to perform at a Jersey City school on National HIV Testing Day has been rescinded, with city officials saying his work promotes violence. Officials say they nixed the invite from the city Department of Health and Human Services when they read some of the lyrics of the Harlem native, who inspired the New York Giants' "jump shot" celebration with the music video for his hit song "We Fly High." Jones, who is also the co-CEO of Diplomat Records, has spoken out about losing his father and uncle to AIDS. City spokeswoman Jennifer Morrill said that while the June 27 event has been canceled, the city is offering free HIV testing at several locations through the end of June. "The City of Jersey City is proud to sponsor events during the month of June that encourage our residents to be tested for HIV/AIDS," Morrill said. "When it was brought to the attention of the Mayor's Office staff that Mr. Jones was the star of the concert, a careful review of Mr. Jones' lyrics was done and ultimately the decision was made to cancel the show. "Mayor (Jerramiah) Healy has always been a proponent of positive outlets for our youth and a strong gun control advocate," she added. "Mr. Jones' lyrics speak of violence to women and police, of the drug trade and guns, and other activities that Mayor Healy could not endorse by sponsoring an event featuring Mr. Jones." Morrill did not cite any specific lyrics. A representative for the rapper said he was not aware the event had been canceled but had no further comment. Morrill said the Health Department notified Jones' representatives. According to published reports, a bodyguard for Jones was arrested in a June 1 confrontation with police following a surprise performance at Giants Stadium where the rapper's entourage made onstage references to Sean Bell, the Queens man slain by New York City cops in 2006. The incident was not a factor in the city's decision, Morrill said. Jones and rappers close to him have also been criticized for urging listeners not to cooperate with police by "snitching" on others. And in one interview, Jones said Louis Farrakhan was "like the pope to the black people."
Posted on: 2008/6/12 7:21
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Re: Controversial rapper Jim Jones to speak at Jersey City's "HIV/AIDS and the Hip-Hop Generation" e
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Switzerland's Hip Hop Magazinepicked up this story:
http://www.sixshot.com/news/11443/  Jim Jones Performance Cancelled Over Violent Lyrics 6/11/2008 by Black widow New Jersey city officials have reportedly canceled a HIV Testing Day concert which was supposed to be headlined by Jim Jones at a city school because of the rapper's lyrics. According to The New Jersey Journal, Jones was slated to perform at a city school on National HIV Testing Day (June 27) but city officials were not too impressed with the rapper's lyrical content. "When it was brought to the attention of the Mayor's Office staff that Mr. Jones was the star of the concert, a careful review of Mr. Jones' lyrics was done and ultimately the decision was made to cancel the show," said City spokeswoman Jennifer Morrill. "Mr. Jones' lyrics speak of violence to women and police, of the drug trade and guns, and other activities that Mayor Healy could not endorse by sponsoring an event featuring Mr. Jones," she added. ================================ Also http://www.sohh.com/articles/article.php/15562 Daily Hip-Hop News: Jim Jones High School Performance Nixed For "Violent Lyrics" written by Brandi Hopper Wednesday - June 11, 2008 A Jersey City school recently rescinded an offer to have Jim Jones, who has been vocal about his uncle's AIDS death, perform on National HIV Testing Day. City spokeswoman Jennifer Morrill said the Harlem hustler's lyrics were to blame. "When it was brought to the attention of the Mayor's Office staff that Mr. Jones was the star of the concert, a careful review of Mr. Jones' lyrics was done and ultimately the decision was made to cancel the show," she explained to the Jersey Journal. "Mr. Jones' lyrics speak of violence to women and police, of the drug trade and guns, and other activities that Mayor Healy could not endorse by sponsoring an event featuring Mr. Jones," Morrill continued. A rep for Jones said he hadn't been notified about the cancelled performance though Morrill said the Health Department has let him know. In recent Jim Jones news, a member of his camp was arrested after the Summer Jam concert June 2 for tussling with police.
Posted on: 2008/6/11 23:38
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Re: Controversial rapper Jim Jones to speak at Jersey City's "HIV/AIDS and the Hip-Hop Generation" event
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I thought Jim Jones died along with a U.S. congressman and 900 others 30 years ago.
Posted on: 2008/6/11 13:30
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City nixes rapper's school appearance, citing 'violent' lyrics
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City nixes rapper's school appearance, citing 'violent' lyrics
Wednesday, June 11, 2008 By PAUL KOEPP JOURNAL STAFF WRITER The invitation for rapper and hip-hop mogul Jim Jones to perform at a Jersey City school on National HIV Testing Day has been rescinded, with city officials saying his work promotes violence. Officials say they nixed the invite from the city Department of Health and Human Services when they read some of the lyrics of the Harlem native, who inspired the New York Giants' "jump shot" celebration with the music video for his hit song "We Fly High." Jones, who is also the co-CEO of Diplomat Records, has spoken out about losing his father and uncle to AIDS. City spokeswoman Jennifer Morrill said that while the June 27 event has been canceled, the city is offering free HIV testing at several locations through the end of June. "The City of Jersey City is proud to sponsor events during the month of June that encourage our residents to be tested for HIV/AIDS," Morrill said. "When it was brought to the attention of the Mayor's Office staff that Mr. Jones was the star of the concert, a careful review of Mr. Jones' lyrics was done and ultimately the decision was made to cancel the show. "Mayor (Jerramiah) Healy has always been a proponent of positive outlets for our youth and a strong gun control advocate," she added. "Mr. Jones' lyrics speak of violence to women and police, of the drug trade and guns, and other activities that Mayor Healy could not endorse by sponsoring an event featuring Mr. Jones." Morrill did not cite any specific lyrics. A representative for the rapper said he was not aware the event had been canceled but had no further comment. Morrill said the Health Department notified Jones' representatives. According to published reports, a bodyguard for Jones was arrested in a June 1 confrontation with police following a surprise performance at Giants Stadium where the rapper's entourage made onstage references to Sean Bell, the Queens man slain by New York City cops in 2006. The incident was not a factor in the city's decision, Morrill said. Jones and rappers close to him have also been criticized for urging listeners not to cooperate with police by "snitching" on others. And in one interview, Jones said Louis Farrakhan was "like the pope to the black people."
Posted on: 2008/6/11 12:52
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Re: Controversial rapper Jim Jones to speak at Jersey City's "HIV/AIDS and the Hip-Hop Generation" e
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Not too shy to talk
 
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I would be glad to enlighten you! I have been listening to Rap much since 1987. So i know a little bit about the music and Hip Hop Culture. Yes i even know the difference between the two. If you frequent websites like Allhiphop.com and others, you might hear about some of the GOOD things rap aritsts do. However, the media likes to focus on the bad. I do agree with you that most commercialized rap music is a gimmick. But dont blame the artists for trying to make some money. Like i said before. Blame the labels and radio stations for forcing them to rap this way. THEY are the ones that are hurting US! Got a problem with it? Support these underground artists with positive lyrics so that the labels see that they can sell records too. Maybe then Rap music will return to the way it used to be in 1989! But anyway, you asked what artists have good lyrics?  You can begin your quest by checking out these artists and their respective catalogues: Enjoy! Canibus http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I80ZVcYPuek Immortal Technique http://youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=/watch%3Fv%3DntQfkc7DRsY Nas http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDyqE5jLkmw Masta Ace EMC Talib Kweli Mos Def The Roots Common Little Brother Del the funky homosapien De La Soul Pharoah Monch Atmosphere The list goes on. There are plenty more you havent heard of.
Posted on: 2008/5/20 13:31
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Re: Controversial rapper Jim Jones to speak at Jersey City's "HIV/AIDS and the Hip-Hop Generation" e
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Referring to an ethnic group as "white folk" (as you did)sounds to me much more disrespectful and dismissive than referring to inner-city youth as "they" (as I did).
Posted on: 2008/5/20 12:57
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Tell me what is good about rap these days? Enlighten me please! Do you know there is a difference between rap and hip hop right? Did you know that Jim Jones promotes drug use by promoting the use of cough medicine as a recreational drug? What kind of message are the kids going to get after they go home and download Jim's song? Tell me who has the good lyrics that you talk about. What are the positive things hip hop has done over the past recent years compare to the negative. If you were wise you would realize that rap is just a gimmick for corporate America to get rich on the expense of young black youth.How many people are going to die in the streets until your ignorant ass realizes that rap is hurting us not helping us?
Posted on: 2008/5/20 4:08
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Re: Controversial rapper Jim Jones to speak at Jersey City's "HIV/AIDS and the Hip-Hop Generation" e
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The guy whose first contribution to this thread consisted of "They'd listen to their parents, if they, uhm, had parents" accuses other people of race-baiting. Right. Most bigots I've run into have at least had the balls to not whine like a victim when they're called out on exactly what they're insinuating. This one thinks he's Bill Cosby. Thanks for the continued comedy. A shame it comes at the expense of an actual serious topic a hell of a lot more important than your petty need to marginalize minority kids and inflate your ego. Good job making the conversation about you.
Posted on: 2008/5/20 2:56
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Re: Controversial rapper Jim Jones to speak at Jersey City's "HIV/AIDS and the Hip-Hop Generation" e
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Judging by your comment, i can tell you are as ignorant about our inner city youth as you are about hip hop music. Rap is still "good". if you have a problem with the message, talk to the record labels that will only sign an artist or release an album that deal with that destructive subject matter. Many artists with positive lyrics are signed and then are told to change or dumb down their music if they want it released. Talk to the execs at the radio stations who will only play songs(with a few exceptions) that deal with that subject matter. I listen to tons of hip hop that does not deal with any types of destructive subject matter, that is very thought provoking and positive. However, you will never hear it on the radio. Just because you walk by these kids on the street doesn't mean you have a clue about what they are thinking or dealing with. Jim Jones is a great option for getting across a message that desperately needs to be given to these kids. I don't agree with everything Jim Jones says or raps about. But at the end of the day, this message about HIV needs to be delivered. And he is a great option to do it.
Posted on: 2008/5/20 2:38
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Simple. It is amusing to hear Sal opine on the prevention of HIV epidemic, considering that he thinks only "white folk" is offended by a theory that HIV was unleashed on the black population by the US Government. Since that statement by Sal on jclist, it has turned out that at least one member of the "black folk", Barack Obama, is also offended by that notion. Sal is a crude race-baiter, hence the vitriol.
Posted on: 2008/5/20 2:14
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I can only speak for myself, but since you've asked, I'll account for my share of the vitriol. injcsince81 drops bigoted generalizations about minority groups, and then cries wolf when he gets called on it. One need only spend a few minutes and click about half a dozen random links in his posting history to see the pattern of dismissive, invidious, and deliberately misleading commentary. And he gets off on it. Issues like communicating to kids about HIV/AIDS shouldn't be politicized, and one need look no further than this thread to see how much ignorance still exists about the epidemic. And with all due respect, greenville, I don't disagree that there are a lot of problems with a lot of messages in hip-hop, but it's myopic and pointless to think that "if we just stopped rap, it'd all go away." Hip-hop isn't going anywhere, and it's patently false to characterize all rap with one brush. When Jim Jones is telling these kids about how his father and his uncle spent years in and out of jail, were hopeless junkies, and then he got to watch them die of AIDS, please check in with these kids about the message they're getting.
Posted on: 2008/5/20 2:09
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Re: Controversial rapper Jim Jones to speak at Jersey City's "HIV/AIDS and the Hip-Hop Generation" e
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The problem is that they will ignore the message about AIDS and instead will think that the life of a rapper is the best thing on earth. I live in Greenville and every kid around here wants to be a rapper, so to be one they adopt the gangster lifestyle which has lead to the deaths of MANY young men. Rap was good when it help young men empower themselves but now it helps young men destroy themselves. It has become garbage and should be thrown in the dump.
Posted on: 2008/5/20 1:57
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Re: Controversial rapper Jim Jones to speak at Jersey City's "HIV/AIDS and the Hip-Hop Generation" e
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1) Both of you agree there are problems with this guy delivering the message.
2) Both of you agree that it is an important issue that should be addressed. 3) You disagree if the negativity of the messenger outweighs the importance of the message. So why the vitriol? GWB
Posted on: 2008/5/19 20:44
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Re: Controversial rapper Jim Jones to speak at Jersey City's "HIV/AIDS and the Hip-Hop Generation" e
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bottom line. there arent that many people that these kids will listen to. Jim Jones is someone that they will listen to. If their goal is to spread HIV awareness, i think they did a great job by selecting Jim Jones. And kudos to Jim Jones for participating. you know its easy to bash and pick apart people. But its rare you hear about the good things that some of these artists do.
Posted on: 2008/5/19 20:38
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Yay I love when you artificially conflate things as if they are objectively "true". Jones actually has plenty of credibility to speak to people about the effects of HIV/AIDS in the urban black and hispanic experience. The guy's father and uncle died of the epidemic, and he's one of the few people in his profession actually willing to share his personal experience with a captive audience. But hey, I forget that injcsince81 had been appointed arbiter of credibility. (Even typing that sentence made me laugh out loud).
Posted on: 2008/5/19 20:23
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Both have about the same credibility talking about the respective subjects.
Posted on: 2008/5/19 12:43
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Re: Controversial rapper Jim Jones to speak at Jersey City's "HIV/AIDS and the Hip-Hop Generation" e
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This lesson in knowingly bogus false-analogies brought to you by injcsince81. Fact is, Jones isn't being brought in to talk about "snitching", or about homophobia, or about police-citizen interaction. He's being brought in to talk to kids about HIV/AIDS. Please enlighten us, injc, as to how you connect those same dots between OJ and anger, that you do between Jones and HIV/AIDS. Thanks.
Posted on: 2008/5/19 4:39
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I don't know how to reply to this. Would you send your kids to listen to OJ Simpson talk about anger management? Geeeeez.
Posted on: 2008/5/18 20:40
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Re: Controversial rapper Jim Jones to speak at Jersey City's "HIV/AIDS and the Hip-Hop Generation" event
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Home away from home
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How is it that having Jim Jones speak on one topic legitimizes his views on others? Just because he may not have socially acceptable opinions on certain topics doesn't mean that he can't and shouldn't promote messages that are positive and socially acceptable. Homophobia and violence are everywhere in hip hop - unfortunately it's the way it is, but it's not just Jim Jones.
The fact of the matter is kids like rap. They listen to rappers and public figures, so why not have a positive message coming from someone they're actually excited to see and hear from? Makes sense to me.
Posted on: 2008/5/18 19:48
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Re: Controversial rapper Jim Jones to speak at Jersey City's "HIV/AIDS and the Hip-Hop Generation" e
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Hahaha the above post purports to call somebody else out on dodging points? That's a knee-slapper.
Posted on: 2008/5/16 1:58
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Re: Controversial rapper Jim Jones to speak at Jersey City's "HIV/AIDS and the Hip-Hop Generation" e
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In your voluminous response you totally ignored my point that having a rapper with a history of of homophobia and violence present an anti-HIV message to kids may do more harm than good because of the legitimization of the above in the eyes of the audience.
Nice job dodging the main point and instead exploring the meaning of "optimal" and "no parents", and feigning outrage. Your juxtaposition of "Dr. Cosby" and "crude" is breathtaking, but your fine rhetoric notwithstanding, you're missing the main point nonetheless.
Posted on: 2008/5/16 1:51
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Re: Controversial rapper Jim Jones to speak at Jersey City's "HIV/AIDS and the Hip-Hop Generation" e
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When exactly is the last time you've encountered a solution to a major problem that was, in practice, optimal? I never argued that this is optimal, but I certainly believe there is a vast distance between "optimal" and "without value". Quote:
Nothing is stopping schools and communities from also getting people living with HIV/AIDS in to talk to kids. I know people who volunteer their time doing exactly that. That's a separate issue altogether from being given the opportunity, warts and all, to have an unlikely and highly visible advocate for HIV/AIDS come in for a major event, and telling them "no thanks." Quote:
As the product of a single-parent household, in a nation where the leading contender for the highest office is the child of a single-parent household, I deeply resent and am insulted by your mathematics that readily equate 1 parent to zero parents. How dare you. Fact is, there is nothing "relevant" about your mischaracterizing Dr. Cosby's message and conflating it with your own crude, socio-economic and racial stereotyping. Again, I never suggested there wasn't a problem in many communities, including our own, regarding parenting and responsibility being taught in the household. But your dismissive, arrogant, uninformed assumptions are part of the problem, and in no way part of the solution. Quote:
And again, I ask you to find them for me. Nobody in this thread has said this is optimal, nobody has said this is ideal. But I'm not sure you and I live on the same planet if you're willing to forgo viable options with the potential to do good in the name of waiting for that "optimal" solution to land in your lap. You've actually lived in the city for 27 years and not figured out that part of life involves making the best out of what you're given?
Posted on: 2008/5/16 0:19
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This is one of his more vile songs in my opinion.
Posted on: 2008/5/16 0:18
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That's because I actually agreed with most of your reasoning regarding the difficulty in bringing in athletes to talk about HIV. However, I am still not convinced that having a gangsta rapper deliver the message is an optimal solution. The problem lies in the fact that a good message by the rapper legitimizes his homophobic and violent lyrics in the minds of the kids. Even if I buy your argument that it's next to impossible to get a known athlete to talk to kids about HIV, I'm pretty sure there are regular people with HIV who could talk very convincingly and capture the kids' attention. What I totally did not agree with is that my "parents" comment was arrogant and bigoted, and to that I responded with a relevant analogy. Fact is, whether you want to call it bigoted or not, that active parents are sorely lacking in working class/poor African American communities. The statistics are devastating - something like 80% single parent households in some places. The results of that are equally devastating - HIV/AIDS being one of them. You say having a rapper deliver the anti-HIV message is OK; I say there are probably many other choices of the messenger which are better.
Posted on: 2008/5/16 0:07
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Which is exactly why I feel the way I do about the issue. I understand the frustration, but I'm willing to give it a shot if good can come of it. I don't think it should be overlooked that redemption is something kids in already difficult situations don't get to see enough of. If this guy's story can make them think about HIV/AIDS, and about the difference between the showmanship of Hip-Hop lyrics and the reality of crime, drugs, and promiscuity, then I think it's worthwhile, and could go a long way toward injecting a reality check into the way that they relate to Hip-Hop. Which I think we both agree would be a good thing. Quote:
My paranoid fear of inadvertently opening Rick Astley YouTube videos is what keeps me from making the same mistake.
Posted on: 2008/5/16 0:04
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Unsure of his personal connection to the issue- Didn't see that in the article. If that's the case I guess he has some cred re: HIV/AIDS but then again, Gotti did re: safe driving.
Not disputing it's a serious issue. I guess what torques me the most is that it is so hard to reach these kids (or so it seems) that this is the best that can be done. Teachers can't reach them? Parents? Won't? My God. Tragic. Try harder. Re: the lyrics- I was tempted to go YouTube it, but the last time I did that to check out a band that I thought was ridiculous I ended up buying an album. GWB
Posted on: 2008/5/15 23:58
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I love that I also googled his lyrics after our last exchange. Great minds? Very funny. I agree that he's not necessarily the "role model" one would hope for, and never made the assumption that he's a saint. I'll even concede that giving the guy a proclamation from the City by its Mayor and State Senator is overdoing it. If that was a necessary element in order to secure the booking, then I'll gladly raise a cynical eye to the sincerity of his commitment to the issue. But I'm willing to chalk that up to opportunistic, political pandering from Jerry and Sandy absent evidence to the contrary. I still stand by the idea that he shouldn't be barred from speaking to a public school audience about HIV/AIDS, for exactly the reason that he's an entirely a-typical spokesperson with a sincere personal connection to it, willing to let his macho swagger down for a minute and talk reality about a serious and stigmatized issue. I wouldn't feel the same about him coming to give a talk on police-citizen relations, given the no snitching thing, mind you. It's kind of like those PSAs hitting the TV lately - with Nancy Pelosi sitting next to Newt Gingrich on a couch, (or Sharpton and Robertson), willing to unite on talking to people about the environment because of the seriousness of the issue. Given that infection rates were up a staggering 48% last year, and the growing misconception that HIV/AIDS is no longer a fatal illness and that it's somehow less of a "big deal", I'm willing to accept a flawed messenger when the message is of such importance, and if that messenger has the capability of getting through to a tough crowd in a way that a lot of others wouldn't be able to.
Posted on: 2008/5/15 23:48
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Thanks Sal- And believe me I have almost no idea who this guy is. I half thought someone was coming to give the kids kool aid of a different sort.
Remember that interview on 60 Minutes? Guy's name was Cam'ron. All about "Stop Snitchin'". He's a member of the same group as this Jim Jones character- The Diplomats. They also sort of made the whole stop snitching thing part of their logo. LOL just read some of his lyrics. Hysterical as an adult, probably exciting as a kid. "P-89"... Doesn't he know 9mm are so 1990? http://www.elyrics.net/read/j/jim-jon ... ified-gangsta-lyrics.html You get the idea. Not a great example. No idea what Healy is thinking. Why would he honor the guy? Edited to add- The more I think about it the more stunning it gets- Mayor Anti-Guns is going to honor THIS guy? What am I missing here? GWB
Posted on: 2008/5/15 23:33
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GWB, thanks for taking the time to respond. And I hear what you're saying. I guess my perspective on Jim Jones is that, from what I've read in the links in this thread, and from the passing familiarity I have with him (having heard of him and that's about it), I haven't seen enough to arrive at the opinion you have about him. I've certainly seen and heard far worse messages in hip-hop than "no snitching" and I don't know the song or the video well enough to conclude that the guy goes as far as you claim he does, or at least any further than wearing a t-shirt. I tend not to base entire opinions on people from the actions of Canadian broadcasters and one-paragraph snarky items on blender.com. If there's something you know about him that I don't, that I should be made aware of, please enlighten me. Hyperbole or no, I get what you're saying about the Gotti analogy, far-fetched though it may be, seeing as I don't know the extent to which Jones blatantly advocates the horrible things you associate with him. What I got from your first post on the subject was a sense that anybody (datedly) labeled a "gangsta rapper" should be presumed guilty and kept from doing potentially good things with their visibility, about serious, potentially embarrassing issues that they have a personal connection to and can speak to kids about in no-bullshit vernacular. It's exactly that this message is coming from this person that would make a kid stop and pay attention, in a way that wouldn't have the same impact coming from Magic Johnson or Derek Jeter. As for delivery systems - yeah, I'm willing to do a balancing test and weigh the value of the potential to do good against the potential harm of legitimizing objectionable messages that may be a part of this guy's act. And I still think the value outweighs the cost. Particularly in light of the limited resources a "delivery system" like ours has at finding people who can potentially make an impact and get a tough message across.
Posted on: 2008/5/15 21:55
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Re: Controversial rapper Jim Jones to speak at Jersey City's "HIV/AIDS and the Hip-Hop Generation" e
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Home away from home
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Quote:
Sal, you're off base. I appreciate the goal, but the ends don't justify the means in this case. You were 16 once. Can't you fathom that by inviting a violence-promoting (worse than violence promoting- violence promoting in the interests of denying victims justice) public figure to speak as an "authority "on anything legitimizes them, and not soley (or even mostly) in regards to the topic they're addressing? Listen- Lots of people in Queens thought John Gotti was a great guy. His kid got killed by a guy backing out of his driveway. Would it be appropriate, out of ALL the speakers available, to have John Gotti come to a school in Queens to tell kids to be careful when they're driving? Wouldn't it be in some way adding some sort of credit or creedance to Gotti & the way he lived his life, the things he stood for? The simple fact that this guy is invited to speak elevates him. He's an authority. He will be speaking from authority, and those kids will listen. They'll look up to him. Probably already do. They'll see Healy & Cunningham give him his "Proclimation", and they'll say to themselves, JUST AS YOU OR I WOULD at age 14-17, "They say that we should talk to the police when we see a crime, but there's Mayor Healy & Ms. Cunningham up there kissin' the tail of King Stop Snitchin'. Guess it isn't such a big deal after all". The fact that kids in Ozone Park looked up to Gotti is a problem. They're kids. Adults shouldn't reinforce their childish, immature error simply because they've run out of good ideas and don't know how to relate to the students. The ultimate irony here is this guy is shoving sh*t down these kids throats that ultimately is going to bring them nothing but heartache and grief. And because of his success in doing so, individuals with their OWN message to deliver make a deal to have him do it. Since he's been such a sucess delivering poison, let's use him to deliver a little dose of medicine along with it...It's easier than finding another delivery system, right? What a cop out. Here's a question- How does the JCPD feel about this guy getting honored? Maybe Healy & Co aren't aware of exactly what this guy promotes. (For the record, obviously Gotti's crimes are worse than this dudes- It's called hyperbole, cut me some slack, I'm tired) GWB
Posted on: 2008/5/15 21:33
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