We are beginning our quest for a condo in downtown JC. A few places have touted "deeded roof rights." Does anyone have any insight into whether JC is particularly difficult when it comes to getting permits to add a roof deck (outdoor space is a must for me and my husband). Our agent has said that as long as it isn't visible from the sidewalk, it's usually ok, but I wanted to see if anyone else had any experience. Thanks!

Okay, good, this is useful and also confirms what I thought to be true. Because I live in a condo building and it would be all too easy for my neighbors to report me (not that they have any reason to but you never know) I'm too scared to build without a permit.

For the record, the Historic Preservation Commission was very professional and easy to deal with in obtaining a "certificate of no effect" which I needed to get because I am in the historic district. They could serve as a model for the rest of the Jersey City bureaucracy.

I'd like to make some general comments about the permit laws. The way they are now is a formula to make almost all residents who can hold a screwdriver a scofflaw. I'm told that anytime the "seal" to the drain line is broken, a permit is required. this includes changing a sink or a toilet. Changing a light fixture also requires permit, as does hanging a cabinet on a wall or building any kind of stud and drywall structure like a closet. I believe only a licensed electrician is allowed to change a wall receptacle, I'm not sure if it requires a permit but wouldn't be surprised.

Not only does this make minor work ridiculously expensive, but the contractors often won't return call for major work, never mind stupid little jobs. The ones that do show up will inevitably ask if you want to get a permit, like it was optional for major work. Clearly they are unafraid of getting caught doing unpermited work, so I must assume the system penalizes the homeowner more than the contractor.

Even if there were enough plumbers and electricians for every minor job, in this city of 240K people, there aren't enough inspectors to oversee that volume of work. It's a code that is set up to fail, and rather than figure out a way to make it workable for homeowners, it's purpose seems to be to raise funds and taxes through major permits, and let the city off the hook when a "scofflaw" piece of work fails, though a majority of all work fall into that category.

Basically these laws get enforced only when either Buildings or your neighbor has a grudge against you. That's ridiculous.

I have been there. There are only two ways to do it:

1) have a buddy come in without a truck and build it quickly and quietly without getting caught.

2) hire a local licensed contractor who will walk into the Code office and bribe the right person to get a permit issued.

Otherwise, you get the weeks after weeks of back-and-forth and wasted time before inevitable and unreasonable rejection.

Sad but true.

Caj, brian_em and Brewster are giving you sound advice.

Caj.

I've never heard of a deck being built on top of an existing patio with out any supports being dug into the ground. But if you have it figured out, I'd like to see some pics when it's complete, just out of curiosity. I've worked in construction before, and I've never seen anything like that, but hey, I guess it could work if the concrete is stable and thick enough, but I would worry about long term, water damage or the concrete settling uneven.

Still regarding the law, I'd still stick to the legit ways, even if you aren't digging.

This thread got me thinking too. I have some people that are still involved in construction in the area, I'll ask around tomorrow and see if i can get any tips for ya.

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Well, this the most helpful advice I've gotten yet. Throw myself at the mercy of the court at 30 Montgomery St ? I love my tax dollars hard at work, I really really do.

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Actually, the way we're doing it we don't need to dig any holes - the supports will be held by concrete pylons on top of the concrete patio. There is no way any of the pipes and lines will be touched when we do this. I do want to this legitimately, get the permits and all, I just don't see why I'm being treated like I'm building a shopping center or something.

Well, here's my take.

1st, if your friend isn't a licensed NJ contractor you're not going to get a permit.

2nd, assuming he is, go down to the 30 Montgomery 4th floor permits office and throw yourself on the mercy of the court. Tell them what you want to do and ask what you need. You'll probably need to file a drawing, but whether that can be done by your bud or needs to be by a licensed architect is a question for them.

3rd, return to 30 Montogomery with what you need, including the contractors license # and address, and apply for the permit.

4th, build, you'll have to have several inspections like a footing inspection and framing inspection.

Sooooo, bend over for JC, then enjoy your deck!!

Brian_em, maybe you hit shale in the Heights or JS, but downtown it's all mud! They just pound 20' piles straight in around here. All the floors here sag in the older homes because none of the center pillars have proper footings and have sunk in the mud.

I dunno man, call before you dig. lol.

Like you said, your buddy drew up some pretty good plans, they weren't on level with architectural plans?

Even if you are building a "small" deck, you still need to dig some serious holes and pour concrete for a foundation on you main supports. Keep in mind this sounds simple, but digging anywhere in NJ, is a pain. You hit shale after 10" if you're lucky. But you have to keep in minid all the pipes and lines running into and out of your house. Are those all accounted for?

I understand your situation, figure building a small deck, you just invite some buddies over for some beers a few weekends in the spring and hammer it out. But I would go the straight path and get all the permits and make sure it's legit. Last thing you need is one of your buddies tripping over something and breaking an ankle, or something stupid happens, and now you have a sticky situation. Or if your equipment is making noise and some a$$hole neighbor calls the city on you...Why deal with the headaches?

>sigh<

Yes, I could do that but I am on the ground floor of a condo building (backyard is deeded to me) and what if my neighbors and people on other floors of the building decide to call the Construction Code or Zoning offices and tell on me?

I just need to know what are the steps. Oh, and yes, I am fairly new and uninitiated to the Jersey City bureaucracy, so I am bracing for the worst.

in this town, the BEST way to go about this, is to just do it, dont try for a permit, do it during a week day, when the neighborhoods are empty, and dont park a big contractor truck out front.

Okay, so I wanted to build a small deck on the back of my house, in my backyard. Had numerous contractors come and scope things out, they all said they were either too busy or this was just too small a job to be worth their time.

So I hooked up with a friend of mine from outside the area who comes down here frequently and has done this sort of work on the side before. He drew up some pretty extensive plans and took a lot of the necessary photographs.

I applied for Certificate of No Effect because I am in a historic district. The people in the Historic Preservation Commission were pleasant and easy to deal with, they granted me a certificate in about a week.

Now comes the hard part - obtaining a building permit. After applying to the Office of Construction Code, because I didn't have architectural prints, I'm now being told that I need to make an application to the Zoning Office as well, which needs to approve my proposed deck first, which I was never told about.

Some friends have suggested that I just build it and plan on not getting caught, as some have done themselves with other improvements, but I don't want to start the work only to be told it has to be torn down and to pay a large fine.

There are no written ordinances on this and no written guidance on the logistics of applying for a building permit. Is there anyone out there who has been through this and would like to tell me the steps I need to take on this?

Please, serious replies only, I just want to get this small and simple deck built. Thanks.

Well, I've been here a few years but up until now the only city agency I had to deal with was the Parking Authority, to buy a parking permit, and I've really had no problems with them.

I've talked to two people who built their own decks in JC and both have said they just built them, without bothering to get a permit. Is this a standard practice among homeowners in JC doing their own home improvements, given the ineptitude and slow response of the Construction Code office?

caj11, you're new to Jersey City, aren't you?

Thank you very much for the insight, I appreciate it. One thing I just noticed today, and this is the REAL injustice... I noticed that the denial letter was dated October 30th (I submitted the application on October 24th) but nothing was sent to me until this past Monday Nov. 19th and the only reason I received it was because of repeated calls and faxes to the office...what gives?

Also, if I submit the architectural prints with the building plans, will that be enough? What else could they possibly ask for?

When a permit application is submitted it is reviewed by a clerk not an engineer and is only reviewed for accuracy and correct information.

The application is then reviewed by the Building Subcode Official who approves or denies the application.

In this case the Permit Application may have denied because it did not include a copy of Architects Plans for the deck. Architects plans are required for ALL decks in Jersey City.

In order to get the Permit, a set of Architects plans must be resubmitted .

I would suggest revising your plans to include 3 rent-a-cops for backyard patrol during the construction phase of your deck.

Okay, so I wanted to build a small deck on the back of my house, in my backyard. Had numerous contractors come and scope things out, they all said they were either too busy or this was just too small a job to be worth their time.

So I hooked up with a friend of mine from outside the area who comes down here frequently and has done this sort of work on the side before. He drew up some pretty extensive plans and took a lot of the necessary photographs.

Went down to the Office of Construction Code Official (part of the Dept. of Housing, Economic Development & Commerce) to apply for a building permit. The engineer at the counter looked at my building plans and photos and said the information I was submitting was sufficient and my permit should be approved easily.

After a 3 1/2 week wait, I finally get a call back from Office of Construction Code, saying my application has been denied. They faxed the denial to me, which simply stated "architectural prints" (I assume it means I was supposed to submit them with the application and did not).

Architectural prints never entered my or my friend's mind. We're not building the Taj Mahal here. Anyone have any insight on getting around the draconian policies of the Office of Construction Code Official and what I can do about something like this?

Thanks in advance