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Re: Fulop: Let's tighten our ethics rules
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there was no effort to get the public out for this meeting, nothing from the councilman, nothing from anyone else. this one was for the headlines....
Posted on: 2007/9/13 2:00
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Home away from home
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Real people, real names, folks who attend meetings, who pick up the phone and call, who complain, who compliment, who suggest, who leave real names, phone numbers and addresses have power......the rest is bulldonk~
Posted on: 2007/9/12 17:51
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Home away from home
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True !!
I saw BrightMoment at the meeting but I guess I missed you. It was a total failure for the power of this Board DTG [quote] Althea wrote: However, when they see that only a handful of people show up and only one or two people speak, well... suddenly all the talk on the board doesn't seem all that important I bet. [quote]
Posted on: 2007/9/12 17:41
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Home away from home
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HAHAHA! Don't worry pinkie, it's not an original quote of FAB's, but an old carpenter's maxim: "Measure Twice, Cut Once." 
Posted on: 2007/9/12 16:07
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Re: Let's tighten our ethics rules
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Home away from home
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How does a single Congressperson and the Assemblyperson get legislation passed?
You work on it, you lobby the other Congresspersons or Assemblypersons, you present your ideas, get others to co-sponsor, you go back to the drawing board, fine tune it, tweak it and finally you end up with what the majority believes to be really good, sound legislation. Hopefully it just may become policy because; you have support of others, and now you may just have what it takes to get the bill passed. You have a strong support from some of your fellow elected officials to help push the votes to the yes side. That is the best way to get legislation passed. For this to work, (IMO) must involve both sides of the government, establishing city standards of conduct and accountability for ALL employees and elected officials. Do it once and do it right! (Good lord, I think I just quoted FAB) And I do agree with Councilwoman Richardson. I would never vote for anything that I felt pressured into without knowing this is the best piece of legislation we can do. Quote:
Posted on: 2007/9/12 4:01
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Home away from home
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Tell us, tell us!~ we wouldn't want to be caught off guard by a goverment spy. 
Posted on: 2007/9/12 3:00
Edited by r_pinkowitz on 2007/9/12 3:33:16
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They do monitor the board, at least one that I know. Yes, you know who you are ;0)
However, when they see that only a handful of people show up and only one or two people speak, well... suddenly all the talk on the board doesn't seem all that important I bet. Quote:
Posted on: 2007/9/12 2:23
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soshin: Mention guns and bd pops up through a hole in the ground like a heavily armed meercat
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Just can't stay away
 
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Oy vey! They read us, they are so perfidious in using the internet - that's totally different from their opponents :)
Posted on: 2007/9/12 2:06
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agree, this layouts the reasons for reform, good rules and essential enforcement.
if the city law department found problems with the proposed reforms, did Councilman Fulop have other legal opinion supporting resolution? after the meeting, I spoke with Councilwoman Richardson who described her support of some areas and opposition to other areas of the resolution, more important a willingness to work on it, but not at the warp speed it was proposed. She stated that both she and her fellow council members were not approached in advance about the initiative instead read about it in the papers. Would it have made a difference????? hopefully Councilman Fulop will revisit the proposal, tweek and bring it up again. also, look for Redevelopment Pay to Play Reform petitions coming to your neighborhood soon..... Quote:
Posted on: 2007/9/12 2:05
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Home away from home
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thanks, and yes, the direction might very well be to merge municipalities into county or larger municipalities to eliminate layers of government and related costs. While JC's financial / tax benefits would not be as great as smaller towns like Hoboken, less government would hopefully be more efficient and representitive.
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Posted on: 2007/9/12 1:52
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Let's tighten our ethics rules
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Integrity and impartiality of all city employees and elected officials are critical to public confidence in government. Public confidence in government is eroded whenever the public perceives that elected officials and employees are not performing their duties in an impartial, professional and unbiased manner or that the private interests of elected officials and employees influence the performance of those duties.
I would?ve like to see a better policy that covered much more ground and also includes anyone collecting a paycheck! A well rounded Code adopted by Jersey City is a good idea and should be done to foster public confidence in government, by establishing city standards of conduct and and accountability for ALL employees and elected officials. Such a policy must cover: DUTIES/PROHIBITIONS. Depending on the job title: AVOIDANCE OF ACTUAL AND APPARENT CONFLICTS: FINANCIAL INTERESTS, OUTSIDE EMPLOYMENT AND ACTIVITIES. POLITICAL ACTIVITY (excluding elected officials and their staff). DISCLOSURE, REPORTING AND RECORD KEEPING RESPONSIBILITIES. (This is currently in place required for all mgt and elected officials by the state.) and the most important: PENALTIES. It is not impossible to adopt such a policy...NYC did it! Just my opinion..... from someone who works in local goverment!
Posted on: 2007/9/11 23:02
Edited by r_pinkowitz on 2007/9/11 23:36:38
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Guys, let?s be careful. This Council has a history of moving up Ordnances to get minimum resistance from the voters planning to attend. The Council may move the reading up to minimizing the number of Fulopistas in attendance. They do monitor this Board!!!!! Sorry about the paranoia but this is Hudson County, ?Home of Dirty Politicians? Please remember this is the First Reading so you will not have an opportunity to state your opinion until the end of the night, during the open session and only if you have registered with City Clerk. Regardless, please attend. We may have different opinions on EVERYTHING but Steve Fulop deserves our support in his attempt to clean up Jersey City. See you there, DTG
Posted on: 2007/9/11 21:44
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Home away from home
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Fulop ethics proposal meets with opposition
by Ken Thorbourne Tuesday September 11, 2007, 3:12 PM If the verbal shoot-out that took place at last night's Jersey City council caucus is any indication, Ward E Councilman Steve Fulop's ethics proposal, up for a vote tonight, is in for rough sledding. Ward D Councilman William Gaughan blasted the proposal -- which seeks to tighten ethics rules on a range of issues, including the use of city cars and hiring relatives of city officials -- as contrary to the Faulkner Act, the state law that governs how Jersey City functions. Fulop's proposal would also prohibit city council members for holding county jobs or jobs with city agencies. Gaughan said that if any of his relatives are denied employment they are qualified for, "whether it be a brother-in-law or sister-in-law ... Then there'd be a lawsuit." The most controversial element of Fulop's proposal is the prohibition on county employees serving on the city council. This provision would prevent five of the nine council members from running for re-election. Another clause applying to employment with a city-related agency would knock out Ward B Councilwoman Mary Spinello, a director at the Jersey City Incinerator Authority. First Assistant Corporation Counsel Joanne Monahan said Fulop's proposal -- which urges the city's Ethical Standards Board to adopt these standards -- runs contrary to state law on several fronts and suggested it be sent to the state Local Finance Board for vetting. For example, a state statute specifically permits county employees to hold municipal posts, she said. The Faulker Act also gives the mayor sole discretion over who gets a city car. Fulop shot back that the council has the right to set parameters for the use of those cars. "Especially coming from Jersey City, I see very little downside (to passing this resolution)," Fulop said. "I think there is no secret that Jersey City has a history, beginning in the 1900s, being associated with corrupt politicians," Tonight's meeting at City Hall, 280 Grove St., starts at 6 p.m. the resolution is expected to be among the last items voted on.
Posted on: 2007/9/11 21:13
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Home away from home
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The ethics resolution will be read tonight. It will probably be towards the end of a short meeting. So you can probably show up at 7:30 and safely hear the reading. A short meeting tends to end at 8:30.
I would encourage as many people as possible to show up at 7:30. If you believe in what Fulop is doing then this would be a very strong show of support. I'm interested in hearing the for and against arguments and even more interested in what the heck this ethics board is. So show up at 7:30 tonight even if you did not sign up to speak, but would like to show support.
Posted on: 2007/9/11 20:31
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soshin: Mention guns and bd pops up through a hole in the ground like a heavily armed meercat
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Home away from home
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The education side of things we are finally starting to get back from the State, I wouldn't want to lose that control again. I have found that the Commissioner of Education was very unresponsive to the parents of school age children, for whatever reasons.. too busy? If we lose city government then we might lose what little head way we have made. I truly believe that City officials have a lot more stake in the actual City they live in and would be more responsive to parents.
So I vote no for the County taking over the schools. The State didn't help, but instead it was an anything goes and the actual residents have no say. I don't have faith that the county is any less corrupt than the City. Keep our politicians close, invested in the community, and accountable. That being said, I agree with FAB that at least sensible solutions and views are being put forth. Quote:
Posted on: 2007/9/11 14:10
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soshin: Mention guns and bd pops up through a hole in the ground like a heavily armed meercat
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I appreciate local control, I would vote for eliminating County government rather than city. I prefer smaller governmental bodies with a vested interest in the area they live rather than a wider area of competing cities hat feel they have little say. Jersey City is large enough that services are being duplicated. I just found out that my freeholder lives on my street. I've never met him and I help to run the neighborhood association. I don't look to the county when I need help. Hence all these tax abatements.
However, if we abolished the county government, I guess we would need much tighter fiscal control over the City... not that anything is stopping the mismanagement now. That being said, this ethics resolution as many components, some of which might directly conflict with state law and some of which the Council may have no say over, such as cars provided to Council people which is under the jurisdiction of the mayor. So this may or may not come up for a vote tonight. I will be at the meeting either way tonight barring an act of god. Hopefully we will know whether corporate counsel has given the ok to vote on the resolution before the meeting. If you want to speak tonight on ethics regardless of whether there is a vote tonight, you can do so by calling the City Clerk?s office (201) 547-5150 to be placed on the speakers list. There doesn?t seem to be anything ?sexy? on the agenda so this should be a very short meeting. Therefore this would be an ideal meeting for people to get up and speak their mind. It?s obvious to most that there is a perceived problem with ethics. Whether you approve of the resolution or not, it would be wise to actually voice your feelings on the matter. As long as you are respectful to the Council, I do believe they respect your opinion. You don?t have to vote for someone who holds a dual position, however, when there are circumstances unseen by the voter such as a mayor from another town possibly having more say than you the resident over JC matters? this is unacceptable. I say this with full respect for the current Council, I wouldn?t want to see them having to be caught in such a position where they worry about jeopardizing the job that is their livelihood. Another possibility is to make Council positions full time and well paying. Just some food for thought. Sorry for the rambling post. I?ve been advised that I?ve simply had too many children. Apparently I will qualify for living in a shoe soon enough. I hope its one of those fancy rent controlled shoes. Again, that?s City Clerk?s office (201) 547-5150. Call now. You don?t have to speak, but if you aren?t on the list then you won?t have the opportunity! Quote:
Posted on: 2007/9/11 14:04
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soshin: Mention guns and bd pops up through a hole in the ground like a heavily armed meercat
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It should be the other way around.County govt.should be done away with as it serves no useful purpose.The existence of county Govt. in hudson only goes back 40 years.The cities could easily take care of them selves and county services are just redundant.
Tom degise is only the third County Exec. we have had since county govt. was started.
Posted on: 2007/9/11 13:02
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Home away from home
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Smartest point of view / solution, I have read in a while - I'm all for this especially the policing and education side of things.
Posted on: 2007/9/11 12:43
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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Just can't stay away
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Another thought.
The best way to permanently resolve this problem would be to re-consolidate the Cities back into the County, put 90% of Governmental responsibility with the County and let the Cities become much like the Community Boards in New York - they have input on land use but that's about it. County of Hudson should be responsible for Police, Fire, Schools, Garbage, Utilities, Social Services, Economic Development, Transportation Infrastructure, etc..
Posted on: 2007/9/11 12:15
Edited by JCLAW on 2007/9/11 12:39:10
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Just can't stay away
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If "JCLAW" is still around, I would welcome his/her take on the proposed oridinances. Is there a downside? (not likely).
This is an ethical question, not a legal one. If you believe your elected JC officials use their influence as functionaries at the County or elsewhere to bring benefits back from the County to the City, then they are upholding their JC offices, but you should vote out the County Executive who appointed functionaries who have an ulterior interest (outside the best interests of their employer - the County). If you believe your elected JC officials use their influence as JC pols to send benefits up to the County (and other cities in the county vis. the Water Supply Giveaway Scandal), then you should vote them out of their JC elected positions. If you are completely uncynical and believe that your elected JC officials are ethical perfectionists who can separate the interests of the City and the County when they are working in each place, then perhaps its ok. If none of the above is possible due to a corrupt, 1-party system where the elected officials are essentially 'appointed' by a cabal of political club members in a grand exchange of favors, contracts, patronage jobs and other goodies, then I can understand why this 1-man 1-office legislation might make the system more "democratic." That said, I'm sure you can expect 7-2 or 8-1 vote - this is definitely just 'tilting at windmills' for the sake of politics.
Posted on: 2007/9/11 10:51
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To the Council Meeting on Tuesday Night !! Pints afterwards !!!!!! DTG
Posted on: 2007/9/10 20:34
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Home away from home
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Tonight should be a lot of fun.I hope webbie is filming.
Posted on: 2007/9/10 19:49
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Home away from home
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Baby steps in the right direction!
Posted on: 2007/9/10 14:13
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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thank you Steve,
I understand this to mean that the council can only regulate itself, municipal employees and municipal "chartered" agencies. The effort is to codify conflicts of interest that arise when an indiviudal choses and is elected to a muncipal office or appointed to a municipal position. In #1, the council cannot set rules for the BOE, but can restrict municipal officials and employees from serving or working for the Board of Education. The proposed ordinances take existing state legislated restrictions on office holding and muncipal employement and extends it to what could also be considered providers muncipal government - the Board of Ed, County govt and the quasi goverment / semi autonomous agencies. in understanding the potential for conflicts of interest and the intertwining relationship of providing government. If "JCLAW" is still around, I would welcome his/her take on the proposed oridinances. Is there a downside? (not likely). Related- Is the Ethical Standards Board constituted not only as described in the ordinance but also independent in spirit too? Additional related reform is needed to open up the appointment process to muncipal boards for them to truely reflect their intent. The Ethical Standards Board meets monthly, but the schedule was not readily available to the public, hopefully the new website will now provide this info in a timely manner. Hopefully, these proposed ethics changes and public support of, sends the message that the way of doing municipal business today is unacceptable, that our representitive form of government is being undermined by rampant conflicts of interest that remove accountability to the public. We need not only rules to prevent abuse, but also true enforcement of the rules that are put into place. Give 'em hell..... Quote:
Posted on: 2007/9/10 13:37
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Just can't stay away
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Dan-
1) The board of education members are not governed by city ordinances, only the city council. It applies to board members and staff. 2) To serve as a municipal employee and directly on the same municipality's council is already restricted via the state.
Posted on: 2007/9/10 12:01
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Thank you ABA Mercer! It is exactly this type of info we have been waiting for.....
Basically, my quick read of the resolution is that it does only what is discussed in the the article. The primary focus being - Mandatory resignation of the mayor or a council member upon accepting employment or appointment to the following: - The JC Board of Education - Employee to the County of Hudson - City Linked Autonomous Agency then allows sitting office holders to conclude term. Two immediate questions / concerns: 1) Does this restriction apply to the Board of Education board members and staff or all employees of the the Board of Education ie. teachers. 2) Why does the resolution identify and include County Employees, but not municipal employees. Other than the current situation with most of the council employed by the county, is the conflict of interest that much different for an individual employed by the city. On the other side do we want to blanket ban county (and city workers) from office? Hopefully, this can be clarified prior to the vote. Quote:
Posted on: 2007/9/10 2:05
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Good question but IMO, the only way an ethics board can be impartial and fair it must be comprised of a majority that is not employed or who can directly or indirectly have any personal gains from that city. I?m curious what the structure of the ethics board is comprised of in NYC?
Posted on: 2007/9/9 5:08
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This is actually the best argument I have read for this argument. People are talking about how great it is, but this shows a real life example.
I would really like to here the other side give examples of why this is bad. I'm very curious to here real life examples and also possible down sides if the ordinance is voted in. Althea Quote:
Posted on: 2007/9/9 4:41
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soshin: Mention guns and bd pops up through a hole in the ground like a heavily armed meercat
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Who are the people on the ethics board? When do they meet? Are their meetings public? I can't find anything about them on the new City web site.
Posted on: 2007/9/9 4:15
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soshin: Mention guns and bd pops up through a hole in the ground like a heavily armed meercat
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Newbie
 
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Check the Agenda: http://jerseycitynj.gov/citycouncil.aspx?id=864
It's Reso 07-715. For the full text, check the resolutions - it's on page 238.
Posted on: 2007/9/9 1:11
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