No, it's 21 days prior to an election is the cut-off for voter registration.

No, the polls close at 8pm except for a school board election, then it's 7pm but they open at 6am.

Yes, you can download a registration form from the state's website. I Googled it and placed the link on our Talking Politics website, which took about 5 minutes to find. http://www.state.nj.us/oag/elections/ ... stration-application.html
The instructions are available in 6 languages. You can also use the form in the state income tax packet or register in person during the late nights at the City or County Clerk's office. They're open to 9PM for 3-5 week-days prior to the voter registration cut-off date.

Voter fraud is a real issue. In several of the polling areas in Lafayette there were more votes cast than people who signed in. There were all kinds of incidents of people voting under other people's names plus all the street money. In the Jersey Journal it was reported that the Cunningham campaign spent $1.2 million and Manzo spent $160,000. The final reports weren?t even in yet. I?d say the street money hit a record level.

Hudson County has always been notorious for voter fraud. Picture IDs? are a fact of life. Even welfare recipients get a picture ID with their county case number and address on it once they?re approved. Prior to 9/11 who would have thought you?d have to show a picture ID and get your photo taken just to enter an office building.

The Democratic system is at risk here. Picture IDs? are a necessity.

JPHurst:
Quote:

I couldn't agree more, it is almost as though they don't want anyone to vote.

* I have to register an inordinate amount of time before the election (Is it 3 months?).

* Why aren't voter registration cards mailed out to everyone?

* The poll booths close at 7pm or some such ludicrously early time.

* There are queues around the block at polling stations (speaking from my experience in Hoboken here - perhaps this doesn't apply in JC).

* Registering to vote makes my personal details available to millions of spammers, and implicitly signs me up for every piece of junk mail going.

Robin.

Quote:


If you want to piss away a lot of time and money trying to convince people to pass a law that ultimately will end up struck down after a prolonged, expensive legal battle, go ahead, but I think there are probably better uses of time and money.

Quote:


So rampant fraud is the price of freedom?! The worst part of the fraud is it affects most the low turnout local races like school board and state reps.

Quote:


Theoretically all dogs would be leashed, all litter would be in receptacles and all drinkers would be 21. The signature as a proof of ID is a 300+ year old idea whose time has come and gone. As a man I despised (wrongly thinking he was the worst president I'd ever see) said in a moment of semi-lucidity: "trust but verify".

In general, the courts don't like obstacles that prevent people from voting. requiring ID would likely be considered an obstacle to voting, and would probably be thrown out.

Theoretically, the signature in the voting rolls is used to confirm that the person showing up and voting is the real person.

alb wrote:

[snip]

On the third hand, higher income people are more likely to have and to carry picture IDs than poor people are. Political groups that are more popular with richer people sometimes try to use picture ID requirements requirements to keep poor people from voting.
[snip]
________________________________________

I spoke to a friend of mine who just retired from the County as an investigator for the welfare dept... When a person applies for welfare, and the County handles all applications for all the towns, the person must come in with a govt issued picture ID card. Once they're approved, by appointment, the County takes their photos & issues them a County welfare photo ID which lists their Social Security number and county case number. He says all the clients he's met have either a photo driver?s license or get a state issued ID because they couldn't cash their checks without them. Now they get debit cards but still must have the ID card.

Let's not keep the fraud machine alive by denying everyone's right to honest elections.

I think the main issue is that someone can walk into the polls, say that they are someone (who they may know has moved/is dead), and vote without having to provide a scintilla of evidence that they are said person. Just requiring that one provide any form of documentation (e.g. driver's license, utility bill, lease, welfare statement, pay stub, anything) would eliminate a lot of the fraud that others have described. I find it very hard to believe that anyone who is interested in voting can't produce a piece of paper from some known state or private organization with their name on it.

It's transparently obvious that the fight big city Democrats put up against any voter ID measures are largely due to defending their fraudulent ways. The level of documentation that one must present before getting a mere parking permit in JC shows that they have no problem with making people provide thorough ID when it suits them.

Quote:anyany

Quote:

My understanding (from hearing a radio piece by someone who has done this) is you are not actually required show to the airline ID, but come early & be prepared for a fine tooth comb search if you don't. Showing your ID gives you a "privilege" of a relatively fast trip through security.

Much controversy come from people confusing rights and privileges. Driving is a privilege, you have no constitutional right to it. There was a case, in Florida I believe, of a woman who wanted her license photo taken with her muslim eyeslit veil on. She sued for her "right" to drive! Can you imagine!

I have yet to figure out why the opponents of a national ID automatically equate a positive ID with brownshirts being able to demand your "papers please!" without the probable cause they need by our laws and constitution. We already have ID's, they're just bad and inconsistent. We have a SS# which is everywhere but banks insist on thinking is a secret, which with a few relatively easy to acquire pieces of data will unlock your bank account. But, as anyone who has had a credit card stolen knows, they don't even need that to defraud thousands of dollars, which we all pay for even if the victim doesn't.

The system is broken and the fantasy that we can have a 21st century culture without a better form of ID is denial. An ID neither gives nor takes away rights, it simply makes the system we already have for voting, security, etc, work. And yes, when we have a train bomb attack like in London or Madrid we may get to the point of ID to board the trains, because the people will clamor for protection by their government.

A system of giving up freedoms for security is pretty much a definition of what good governments do. The bad ones take away freedoms without benefiting the people. For better or worse, it's up to the people to figure out the difference.

Perhaps we should reevaluate the use of identification every else in our lives rather than require even more ID.

Have you tried getting a NJ driver's license in the last few years? Its almost as hard as getting a JC parking permit with "points of identification" and original copies of birth certificates and proof of name change-- the problem is now its supposed to be a form of identification rather than simply a license to operate a motor vehicle.

Meanwhile, can anyone point out where it says you have to show ID to travel? We've come to accept that showing a photo ID at an airport is mandatory. Now there is a "no fly list" which is nearly impossible to get off of and for which people get on for no apparent reason. So in essence, now we need permission from the government to travel within in the country. What next, ID badges to get on the subway? To cross the Hudson River?

Quote:




Hear! Hear! Exactly what I was trying to say!
Thank you for being so clear and succint.

A valid NJ driver?s license would do. All the new digitized licenses have photos and soon all NJ drivers will have one. For non-drivers, a NJ licensed ID card. People need picture IDs' to fly and many to take trains. You can?t get through life without a picture ID.

Today I returned $8.44 of left over stuff at Loew's. I didn't have a receipt so I had to show my driver's license to make the return!

Using non-English speaking poll workers supports the machine since they won't questions/challenge people who vote under other people's names. Poll workers should be chosen because they live in that district & know people. They're not. I didn't know a soul at my polling place, and I've lived here 24 years and always vote, but HC Board of Election turned me down. They don't want people who might questions how it all works and how poorly it works.

This has got to change..... We can't continue to live in a city that's run like a 3rd world city but our property taxes are in the 1st class category....

So. We are voting in America, and the poll workers do not speak English?

Quote:

The election board needs a really good "ombudsman" (bureaucracy detangler) operation, and it needs to put a cell phone in each polling place, so that voters can call up the ombudsman when problems like this erupt.

That way, voters could immediately talk to an intelligent person who would access to a current list of eligible voters and would know how to deal with any problems.

And I'm sure there would be problems even if all the pollworkers spoke perfect English, because they only do their jobs once in awhile. They probably don't really have enough experience to know what they're doing.

But I think the story about the election board saying it has enough experienced pollworkers might be worth looking into. Maybe that's a sign of some interesting funny business.

I vote at Grace Church gym, and have done so
regularly for twenty or so years. Until about
five years ago, we had at least one person who was
conversant in English working the table with
the rollbooks, so it was not such a problem
getting permission to vote, since the English
speaking person was able to communicate. Now, how-
ever, we do not have an English speaking
person working at the table of four or five
non-English speaking workers, and so I have
to pretty much fend for myself, -- that is, finding
my own name in the book, filling out the slip
of paper that records your voting number, etc,
etc. Two people in front of me on line were turned
away because the voting ladies could not find
the name in the book, and the would-be
voters, a recently registered Russian couple,
were not fluent enuf in Spanglish to insist on
their right to vote, and it all got tangled
up and the Russians left in a huff.
It does no good to report such nonsense
to the voting bigwigs since they pay no
attention and end up accusing the complainant
of racism, an asinine but actual occurance.
Why we still have Spanish-only speaking
workers at the voting tables in downtown
JC, the high-rent district and
condo capitol of the world,
is beyond me, but we do.

I think requiring ID would only further
complicate the voting process in
such primitive, tenuous districts as we have
here. Unless the voting administration
provides an official photo ID card of
their own for each registered voter,
the possiblities for confusion and error in
requiring random ID documentation are
endless.

Rob, I have the proofs of identity, but proof of address can be utility bill or credit card bill. These are not issued by the gov't and should not be used.
I have to pay the PSEG (I am not such a cave man to give up electricity), and that could be enough, if only those idiots won't insist the street number in their records is different from the street number outside the building and in any other correspondence. So we're back to banks, Verizon, Comcast and all other monopolies. Oh, and the rent contract has expired by now...

Every time I vote at my polling place (PS 9), I see that, on the rolls, the two former tenants in our house are still listed on the rolls, they moved out in 1998. I always tell the poll watchers that those people don't live there, and the poll watchers usually make a note of it on their sheet.

Still, I wouldn't want the county to purge their names from the voter rolls simply because I told a poll watcher "they don't live there anymore" or because a landlord sent a tenant's sample ballot back with a note saying they have moved. There's as much or more potential for abuse under that type of system. It would be relatively easy for people to disenfranchise rivals or groups of voters by sending out such notices, or at least make it a lot harder for them to vote.

Is a picture ID a panacea? Maybe it will help, though a poll watcher who doesn't pay attention to a signature will probably pay not too much attention to a picture ID as well.

And overall, I really don't think that the problem in this city, county, or country is that it's too easy to vote. If anything, we have bureaucratic mechanisms that discourage voter turnout and participation.

I don't know if this will help you get you state ID. But when I was going through the point system, I was able to use my checking account statement to verfiy my address along with my old NJ license and my passport. You might have looked through this but maybe, this might help you get that ID. It gives a lot of options. I know the state makes it tough but maybe looking through the site you can find some alternatives. If you have a passport already, I think you are halfway there.

http://www.state.nj.us/mvc/Licenses/DocumentSelector/index.htm

I know some states (I think Georgia tried recently) that have tried to pass laws requiring ID. And usually the ACLU will challenge this in court. Apparently its happening in the immigration bill being debated right now

http://www.aclu.org/votingrights/gen/30003prs20070605.html

Coming from a country where not having an internal passport meant you did not exist for any benefit, it feels awkward to see how Americans are trying their best to get the governement into this kind of conundrums.

I have a green card. That is governemnt issued, biometric, recorded, photo I'd, with a unique number. It costed 300 dollars.
Last winter, being denied OTC medication without an ID proving my address, I considered getting one of those non-driving state ID's, but it was too expensive for my budget and almost impossible to get. Guess what? A few minutes ago, I received word from citibank that they cannot give me a credit card without a Verizon landline phone bill. Supposedly, there is no way to check my address unless I have a landline phone. I don't have 50 dollars a month to waste on that, I don't have anybody to talk to.
The state ID was not accepted as proof of residence anyway. Actually the state ID requires bills such as credit cards or telephone. And credit cards require other credit card bills and telephone bills.
So it's not the aclu that makes me unable to get an ID the way I always had, I wanted and I should need. It's the state and the system that developed around these faulty state structures and customs. How can you ask me 50 dollars a month to a monopoly just to prove I exist?
But everything is fine on the voting side. I paid taxes for years and I have no say except this board.

My point? State should always rely on state previous acts. I can produce birth cerificate, passport, lease, proof of taxes paid for our residence by me and the landlord. It's enough verizon can do whatever they want in hudson county, including probably naming some of the local counsellors. Could verizon be taken out of the process of identifying people? Could the state make this process of identifying people easier, if itls to be in the interest of the state?
If only I needed that card... I only wanted it because I was told is a good thing to have it.

Mia is right, my brother used to tell me that when he would go to vote, he would see our father's line signed meaning someone voted using his name, at that time my father was dead for 6 years, just like Brendan Byrne said, when he dies he wants to be buried in Hudson County, so he can stay active in politics. My brother passed away 4 years ago, yet he still gets jury duty notices, I suspect someone has been voting in his name as well, you should present some kind of ID before signing as a secondary check.

Quote:

I personally voted at Grace Van Vorst Church, and the poll workers for Ward E/Precincts 13 and 14 spoke plenty of English there when I voted a couple of weeks ago. So, I think it's an exaggeration to say that they didn't know enough English to do their jobs.

On the other hand, it does sound as if there might be a lot of people voting under fake names in Jersey City.

On the third hand, higher income people are more likely to have and to carry picture IDs than poor people are. Political groups that are more popular with richer people sometimes try to use picture ID requirements requirements to keep poor people from voting.

Maybe a solution to this would be to require voters to provide a personal detail, such as the city they were born in, when they register to vote. Instead of demanding a picture ID, the challenger could ask voters about the personal detail.

Asking about the personal detail wouldn't help if, say, a brother asks another brother to vote for him, but it would keep complete strangers from stealing other voters' identities.

One important point here is that it would be important to figure out a legal way to keep the personal detail from becoming part of a publicly accessible database, or to sharply limit public access to that information.

If the Hudson County Democratic Organization machine, or a telemarketing scammer, could just go in and download the personal detail records for every voter in Hudson County, that would be a problem.

You will have to talk the ACLU on that one. Some how its a violation of rights. They say it discrimination to check ideas. It makes no sense to me.

In this post 9/11 world, you can?t enter an office building in Manhattan or the JC waterfront without a picture ID. Most office buildings take your photo on the spot for your temp ID, which you must wear. You can?t get on a plane without showing a government authorized picture ID. My mom who lives in a small, rural town in PA couldn?t buy a CD at a new bank without a picture ID so she got a state issued Identification Card! Banks have to comply with the government?s ?Know Your Customer? rules. You can?t cash a check without a picture ID usually a driver?s license. You can?t buy investments on-line without a government ID. You can?t start a corporate job without showing documentation including a photo that you?re a citizen or a Green Card holder. You can?t rent a car without a picture ID if your license doesn?t have one. You need 6 points of ID to get a NJ digital drivers license.

How is it you can walk into any polling place in Jersey City with 250,000 people and vote without showing any ID? I?ve been voting at the main library for the past 24 years. On Tuesday 6/5th, I didn?t know one person handling the books and I always do. I always vote. I applied to the County to be a poll worker and was turned down. They said they have plenty of local, seasoned workers at the downtown polling places. Where were they on the 5th? I pointed out my name, signed and no one scrutinized my signature.

My neighbor was a challenger at School 3 in Downtown and several times during the day, guys walked in impersonating people he knew. Luckily he stopped them but what about the other impersonators? I?m sure this was repeated many times on the 5th. I got an email regarding 2 women at a major condo building in Journal Square who went to vote in their building but found someone else had voted using their names! A friend voted at Grace Church in downtown and said not one poll worker spoke a word of English. How can they challenge if they don?t speak English in a predominately English speaking gentrified neighborhood?

I still get sample ballots for tenants who moved out 3-5 years ago. Every time I send them back with a note that they?ve moved. I still get them. Maybe the issue is people are voting under their names? Tens of thousands of new residents have moved into JC and JC like Hoboken has a huge annual, turn-over rate. I don?t know half my neighbors anymore. In a low turn-out election, especially a primary, this could easily impact who wins. Elections have been won by a 1 vote margin. We?ve seen election fraud at the federal level. This is Hudson County, notorious for fraud! You can?t open a paper without reading about some scam.

We already have issues with the computerized voting machines that lack a paper trail. Our democracy is based on fair and honest elections. Anyone who has lived in Jersey City for some time has heard of all the ?street money? changing hands on Election Day. We?ve met people who sold their vote for $20. Now with all the new faces, it couldn?t be easier to steal votes. Elections cost hundreds of thousands of dollars here so what?s a few more to get the hired guns to vote multiple times under other people?s names?

Folks it?s time for us to move into the 21st century and protect our democracy by insisting that everyone show a government issued picture ID. Our democratic system is at risk. Legislation must be passed requiring picture IDs? to vote in any election. New York has it.

Mia Scanga
Jersey City
Talking Politics.net