donnajc65 wrote:
First, the city didn't market the 16 acre site. By their own admission, they didn't send out a RFP and they didn't place adds in the JJ or Star Ledger. No one knew the land was in play so to speak. So, this story that the land was for sale for decades is just plan BS!! Second, the hospital is a critical part of the city. They have been for over 100 years. If they had to compete for city land, so should LSC. The fact that LSC received FREE Land and the hospital had to compete for land to expand their footprint, is difficult to comprehend. City accommodate their hospitals. They understand the importance of good affordable health care in their cities. and make no mistake about it, for every dollar the medical center gave to the city to plug a hole in the budget, it was a dollar less toward a new emergency room or other needs of the hospital. The mayor talks about about JC being a world class city, you can't have a world class city without world class medical care! And on that account the mayor struck out!!

Now I can hear the rebuttal about schools. Well, when Steven had the opportunity to support a successful preschool at the Golden Door charter school site, he chose to turn his back on them too. The the school argument doesn't cut it.

Monroe wrote:
I guess one could say that until the day the crews show up it's possible this won't be done.

Since the state and Fulop want it, the only opposition will be from the Van Vorst Park residents.

Guess who's going to win out-even Pesin seems ok with it with a few qualifications.

Don't be so na?ve, this has been a done deal for a while. Just how were people going to get to Fulop's casino from downtown, Grand to Pacific to Johnston?

Monroe wrote:
Link or something to cite this?

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Pebble wrote:
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caj11 wrote:
If you put that land up for sale, believe me there would be bidders. It may not be worth what the news articles have said, but you would definitely get offers for more than what Liberty Science Center would get it for, which as of right now is $0.

Liberty Science Center should get its support from the state, not the city. If the land is so important to them, let the State of New Jersey buy the land from Jersey City and then give it to LSC.

The land has been up for sale. It has been up for sale for a freaking decade. Nobody, including the hospital, has wanted it.

caj11 wrote:
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Pebble wrote:
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caj11 wrote:
If you put that land up for sale, believe me there would be bidders. It may not be worth what the news articles have said, but you would definitely get offers for more than what Liberty Science Center would get it for, which as of right now is $0.

Liberty Science Center should get its support from the state, not the city. If the land is so important to them, let the State of New Jersey buy the land from Jersey City and then give it to LSC.

The land has been up for sale. It has been up for sale for a freaking decade. Nobody, including the hospital, has wanted it.

I'll buy it then. I'll offer $100, which is $100 more than the city will get under the LSC deal.

Pebble wrote:
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caj11 wrote:
If you put that land up for sale, believe me there would be bidders. It may not be worth what the news articles have said, but you would definitely get offers for more than what Liberty Science Center would get it for, which as of right now is $0.

Liberty Science Center should get its support from the state, not the city. If the land is so important to them, let the State of New Jersey buy the land from Jersey City and then give it to LSC.

The land has been up for sale. It has been up for sale for a freaking decade. Nobody, including the hospital, has wanted it.

Pebble wrote:
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caj11 wrote:
If you put that land up for sale, believe me there would be bidders. It may not be worth what the news articles have said, but you would definitely get offers for more than what Liberty Science Center would get it for, which as of right now is $0.

Liberty Science Center should get its support from the state, not the city. If the land is so important to them, let the State of New Jersey buy the land from Jersey City and then give it to LSC.

The land has been up for sale. It has been up for sale for a freaking decade. Nobody, including the hospital, has wanted it.

Pebble wrote:
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caj11 wrote:
If you put that land up for sale, believe me there would be bidders. It may not be worth what the news articles have said, but you would definitely get offers for more than what Liberty Science Center would get it for, which as of right now is $0.

Liberty Science Center should get its support from the state, not the city. If the land is so important to them, let the State of New Jersey buy the land from Jersey City and then give it to LSC.

The land has been up for sale. It has been up for sale for a freaking decade. Nobody, including the hospital, has wanted it.

caj11 wrote:
If you put that land up for sale, believe me there would be bidders. It may not be worth what the news articles have said, but you would definitely get offers for more than what Liberty Science Center would get it for, which as of right now is $0.

Liberty Science Center should get its support from the state, not the city. If the land is so important to them, let the State of New Jersey buy the land from Jersey City and then give it to LSC.

Monroe wrote:
Pebble, did the city send out a request for proposals for that land, or was it a secret deal with no public announcement?

And yes, while it's not been formalized Fulop has it on his agenda to begin the bridge this year-they were doing soil and core samples at the new bridge location last summer.

And 'two very different parts of the city'? They're literally minutes away.

Pebble wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
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Pebble wrote:
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donnajc65 wrote:
So Josh, why sell land to the medical center for 24 million dollars and give LSC land for free. The hospital is one of the largest employers in the city and perhaps the largest employer of city residents. They are the one institution in the city that we can't do without! They are bursting at the seems and the city knows that. And yet, this administration has made it a point to put a gun to their heads about buying the city land for 24 million or else. That is what they have done. Free land-16 acres- for LSC and meg-a-dollars- from the hospital-24 million for 2.5 acres. I simply doesn't make sense. All I can think, is the developers on the LSC board cut a deal with the mayor. The hospital deserves better.

I?m going to play devil?s advocate a little here simply because this is an absurdly simplistic approach, one that Yvonne is also trumpeting.

The hospital didn?t ask for the same land that LSC is asking for. If they had, maybe the city gives that land to them for free. Instead, the hospital is asking for highly valuable land in a highly desirable area. Claiming that these transactions are equal is the work of simple minds.

Yvonne wrote:
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Pebble wrote:
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donnajc65 wrote:
So Josh, why sell land to the medical center for 24 million dollars and give LSC land for free. The hospital is one of the largest employers in the city and perhaps the largest employer of city residents. They are the one institution in the city that we can't do without! They are bursting at the seems and the city knows that. And yet, this administration has made it a point to put a gun to their heads about buying the city land for 24 million or else. That is what they have done. Free land-16 acres- for LSC and meg-a-dollars- from the hospital-24 million for 2.5 acres. I simply doesn't make sense. All I can think, is the developers on the LSC board cut a deal with the mayor. The hospital deserves better.

I?m going to play devil?s advocate a little here simply because this is an absurdly simplistic approach, one that Yvonne is also trumpeting.

The hospital didn?t ask for the same land that LSC is asking for. If they had, maybe the city gives that land to them for free. Instead, the hospital is asking for highly valuable land in a highly desirable area. Claiming that these transactions are equal is the work of simple minds.

Are you saying land near Liberty State Park is not valuable? You have the views of the park. A parcel of land was sold recently (not an acre) for $2 million in Bergen Lafayette. Fulop downplayed the value of the 16 acre land. His obligation is to residents and taxpayers, not to the science center. Sell the land and pay down some of the city's debt. Reducing the debt will reduce the budget.

Monroe wrote:
Isn't Fulop putting a car bridge alongside the 'stinky bridge', which will put the LSS expansion about a 15 second drive away from the hospital expansion? I'd say the land equivalent is pretty close between the two.

Pebble wrote:
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donnajc65 wrote:
So Josh, why sell land to the medical center for 24 million dollars and give LSC land for free. The hospital is one of the largest employers in the city and perhaps the largest employer of city residents. They are the one institution in the city that we can't do without! They are bursting at the seems and the city knows that. And yet, this administration has made it a point to put a gun to their heads about buying the city land for 24 million or else. That is what they have done. Free land-16 acres- for LSC and meg-a-dollars- from the hospital-24 million for 2.5 acres. I simply doesn't make sense. All I can think, is the developers on the LSC board cut a deal with the mayor. The hospital deserves better.

I?m going to play devil?s advocate a little here simply because this is an absurdly simplistic approach, one that Yvonne is also trumpeting.

The hospital didn?t ask for the same land that LSC is asking for. If they had, maybe the city gives that land to them for free. Instead, the hospital is asking for highly valuable land in a highly desirable area. Claiming that these transactions are equal is the work of simple minds.

donnajc65 wrote:
So Josh, why sell land to the medical center for 24 million dollars and give LSC land for free. The hospital is one of the largest employers in the city and perhaps the largest employer of city residents. They are the one institution in the city that we can't do without! They are bursting at the seems and the city knows that. And yet, this administration has made it a point to put a gun to their heads about buying the city land for 24 million or else. That is what they have done. Free land-16 acres- for LSC and meg-a-dollars- from the hospital-24 million for 2.5 acres. I simply doesn't make sense. All I can think, is the developers on the LSC board cut a deal with the mayor. The hospital deserves better.

"Other major cities have launched similar sci-tech and education partnerships to increase entrepreneurship and job growth. For example, Cornell NYC Tech, a plan developed by former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, is under construction on Roosevelt Island, through a partnership between Cornell University and the Technion ? Israel Institute of Technology."

JPhurst wrote:
There is a difference between approving a loan to an organization that can't meet it's operating expenses, and giving away the land as part of a redevelopment plan that includes significant benefits to city residents beyond the "developers create jobs" mantra.

By all means, one can be skeptical of all of these promises, and question whether the Liberty Science Center can function as a developer (though presumably it will engage actual real estate developers to do much of the work). But to say "a-ha! You opposed making a loan to the LSC! Now you're flip flopping!" is silly.

bodhipooh wrote:
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caj11 wrote:
An earlier poster said the place had improved itself was now paying the current CEO only $63,000 annually as opposed to the $300,000+ that Emlyn Koster made. I couldn't believe that (seemed unusually low so I looked up the organization's tax return and my instincts were correct. Paul Hoffman makes over $ 316,000 a year in base compensation alone, and the place has 8 Vice Presidents earning health six-figure salaries.

I was the one that presented the data about the CEO earning that lowly salary (around 63K) based on data from Charity Navigator, which is usually very accurate. If you have data to the contrary, could you post it here? Did you see a record stating that LSC paid their CEO 316K? Or, did you see a record stating that was his income for the year?? The difference being, of course, that he could have multiple income sources. I am not questioning the veracity of what you stated, but simply asking for clarification, because your numbers are quite different from the ones I found.

In any case, I do think LSC has been improving their offerings. I had visited several times in the past and was always underwhelmed. Each visit was met with broken exhibits, empty spaces, and boring interactive features. After visiting two or three times with my daughter, I felt like it was a rip off and stopped visiting.

caj11 wrote:
An earlier poster said the place had improved itself was now paying the current CEO only $63,000 annually as opposed to the $300,000+ that Emlyn Koster made. I couldn't believe that (seemed unusually low so I looked up the organization's tax return and my instincts were correct. Paul Hoffman makes over $ 316,000 a year in base compensation alone, and the place has 8 Vice Presidents earning health six-figure salaries.

bluehorse wrote:
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jcdd wrote:
I really hope that the planned "grade school" becomes a reality. Why not extend it to a high school as well? We certainly need some new high schools in Jersey City. Wouldn't it be cool if they created a math and science magnet school, similar to, say, the Bronx School of Science in NYC?

If this were to happen, I would consider staying in JC. I know many other families have moved to better school districts. Unlike many commentators here, I also saw the nonprofit, education side of this announcement. Here's a quote from Fulop's email:

"Other major cities have launched similar sci-tech and education partnerships to increase entrepreneurship and job growth. For example, Cornell NYC Tech, a plan developed by former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, is under construction on Roosevelt Island, through a partnership between Cornell University and the Technion ? Israel Institute of Technology."

Fomite wrote:
Apparently not everyone thinks science is important.

I would love to see LSC get involved with Liberty Humane Society, it could greatly benefit both. Spark some animal science interest in kids, and bring more volunteers to the shelter. Maybe a young animal educators course to teach about spaying. Even a wildlife center, get the girl and boy scouts involved.

Biology, Ecology, Environmental Sciences, Veterinary Science...a lot of good could come out of this.