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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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I wasn't here for the initial vote and discussions, but it does seem clear that you can't have a larger children's playground, and add a dog run, without losing open space, the tennis courts, or something!

Can someone explain how they think it is possible to achieve this "more of everything" solution?

Robin.

Posted on: 2006/8/22 13:49
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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Adding 7 structures to this little park is not raising the standards. It's stuffing too much stuff into a small area just to please every interest group.... and win elections.

Not sure if everyone knows about the childrens garden. There is going to be a garden... just for children to use. Senior citizens, adults, young adults... may not use it. Perhaps 25mcwilliams or Sam Pesin who is so kind to come and help us from Liberty State Park and teaches at the Garden Pre School can shed some light on the garden just for children.

Posted on: 2006/8/22 10:53
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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Quote:

Minnie wrote:
Actually, it's not important if people are familiar with the complicated report. There is no pre-requisite for this... you just stop by and look at the plans and you either like it or you don't like it.

I expect the plans to have some color. Color will make it look prettier. Just count the structures.... because I'm expecting at least 2 more structures.... a second kids playground and the dog run. We already have 4 structures not including the gazebo and we're about to add more. I would have hoped the community residents could decide what are the 3 most important structures... or else.. forget about all the green stuff.

1) Dog Run (we know this is number 1)
2) Kids playground (we know this ranks high)
3) Do you want another kids playground or do you want a basketball court?


Your #3 above is a straw man argument: the implication from your question being that if you want another kid's playground then you can't have the basketball court. The point is the majority of people who voted in the ballot process want BOTH!.

It's not an either/or proposition. As 25mcwilliams already pointed out here, most people already voted on supporting BOTH! See here:


Quote:
25mcwilliams on 2006/8/22 0:17:53

The public sentiment expressed in ballots is what we expect will guide T&M in the drawings available on 8/30, so attendees should take 10 minutes to become familiar with the results.

Most people - the vast majority - trust the validity of the balloting.

http://www.hamiltonpark.org/PDFS/HP_R ... tion_Community_Report.pdf


Quote:
HAMILTON PARK RENOVATION Plan March 2006

http://www.hamiltonpark.org/PDFS/HP_R ... tion_Community_Report.pdf

Q. 3. During this process, it is possible that the children?s play area will be moved from its current location. Would you like a larger playground area with possibly two separate, but adjacent, children?s playgrounds, with one for toddlers and the other for older children?

A. Yes, I would like the playground enlarged and made into two separate, but adjacent, play areas. (136 votes)

B. Yes, I would like the playground enlarged, but not divided into two separate playgrounds. (62 votes)

C. No, I would like the playground to stay exactly as it is. (50 votes)


Quote:
Hamilton Park Renovation Plan
Ballot 4, Question 6 (see page 101 of the report):

Q. 6. Would you like to keep the basketball court in Hamilton Park?

A. Yes, I want the basketball court. (202 votes; 79%)

B. No, I do not want the basketball court. (55 votes; 21%)


Quote:
Minnie wrote:

You decide. Not the HPNA. Not Steve Fulop.


I'm neither the HPNA OR Steve Fulop and like others who voted in the HPNA Renovation Plans 5 ballots back in March 2006, my vote was not influenced by either HPNA OR Steve Fulop.

However, my vote did wind up expressing what was the majority POV on every issue. But then I've lived here since '82 and used the park since then, so maybe, just maybe, IMHO, I too know something about the park as did the others who voted!

Course none of us know as much as you Minnie:
Quote:
by Minnie on 2006/8/21 18:46:53

But that other comment about nothing being hidden in the process.... how the hell do you know this? You're a fool for even saying it. You think you know more about this then me?


Still, for those newbies who were not here in the Spring, or for whatever reason did not vote in the Hamilton Park Renovation Plans 5 ballots, now is your opportunity to make your voice heard. In that I agree 100% with Minnie. You need to come to the meeting closest to your neighborhood and make your voice(s) heard.

Now THAT is part of being a good neighbor!

Posted on: 2006/8/22 7:34
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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I posted a link to the ballot results - only 5 pages, not the unabridged report presented to the city. The public sentiment expressed in ballots is what we expect will guide T&M in the drawings available on 8/30, so attendees should take 10 minutes to become familiar with the results.

Most people - the vast majority - trust the validity of the balloting.

Here they are again: http://www.25mc.org/dox/HP_Ballot.pdf

Quote:

Minnie wrote:
Actually, it's not important if people are familiar with the complicated report.

Posted on: 2006/8/22 4:17
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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Actually, it's not important if people are familiar with the complicated report. There is no pre-requisite for this... you just stop by and look at the plans and you either like it or you don't like it.

I expect the plans to have some color. Color will make it look prettier. Just count the structures.... because I'm expecting at least 2 more structures.... a second kids playground and the dog run. We already have 4 structures not including the gazebo and we're about to add more. I would have hoped the community residents could decide what are the 3 most important structures... or else.. forget about all the green stuff.

1) Dog Run (we know this is number 1)
2) Kids playground (we know this ranks high)
3) Do you want another kids playground or do you want a basketball court?

You decide. Not the HPNA. Not Steve Fulop.

But shoving a total of 7 structures into this park is absurd.

Posted on: 2006/8/22 3:45
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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The five ballot results, combined into one document (five pages) is available at:

http://www.25mc.org/dox/HP_Ballot.pdf

Posted on: 2006/8/22 3:10
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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What about if all those who felt they have not been part of the process go to this next meeting and help out where you can. Those who have been part of the process, greet them with a genuine warm welcome.

After the meeting go to a central 'watering hole', have a beer or wine or juice, kiss and make up and focus on the park instead of each other.

Once this park is renovated, get every religious order from priest, rabbi, voodoo witch doctor, police and fire chief, mayor and any other heads of state to bless it for good luck for those that use it.

Posted on: 2006/8/21 23:09
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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Quote:


BrightMoment wrote:

ALL should have access to the park!

There is NOTHING being hidden in this process.



Nobody is putting up gates and locking off the park. Not sure why you write these sort of things BM. But that other comment about nothing being hidden in the process.... how the hell do you know this? You're a fool for even saying it. You think you know more about this then me?

Hamilton Park has so much potential and the planning process has been a silent one, dealt mostly behind closed doors by invitation only to select community group leaders. The gentleman from Van Vorst Park that was most kind to provide HPNA with the ballot they so wonderfully copied wasn't even included, and I have to ask Steve Fulop why... when he includes the leader of FOLSP, Sam Pesin who doesn't live any where close to Hamilton Park.

Antiseptic stings.... so be it. So be it.

I will of course help to get the word out and would appreciate others doing the same. It should be a democratic process and that is what matters. And if others will put up fliers, posters, and send emails... it will help. Doesn't have to be anything fancy... just state the facts: HP Renovation Plan - Architect Drawings to be decided on. August 30, 7 pm at St. Francis Hospital... bring your own coffee and donuts and see you there!!

Save me a chair.

Posted on: 2006/8/21 22:46
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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Quote:

G_Elkind wrote:
I second Brewster's comments.

Nothing has been hidden or distorted as to the process or results. Quite to the contrary, it's all been out in the open and transparent in the extreme -- with every comment meticulously recorded.

The HPNA Park Renovation Report can be found at: http://www.hamiltonpark.org/PDFS/HP_R ... tion_Community_Report.pdf

People are free to positively express their personal opinions about what ever they might wish to see in the park, but not at the expense of other points of view. Denigrating an acknowledged job well-done, is shameful and I'm sorry to see it again on display in Hamilton Park or this forum.

I personally think that no organization owns the park -- neither the HPNA, nor the Friends of Hamilton Park, nor even the residents living on or around the Park. It is a city-wide resource. Use of Hamilton Park must include sorely needed active recreational uses, including, but not limited to basketball, tennis courts, volleyball, children's playground areas, dog runs and clean lawn, pet free-zones. There are needs larger than our own petty self interests to account for in the redesign of Hamilton Park.

Just my two cents as they say...

All the best.


And I will join G_Elkind and Brewster in voicing the same.

I was one of those who voted for the basketball court AND flower gardens AND tennis courts, dog runs, pet-free zones, clean lawns, etc, I also feel that the park serves the interests of ANY in JC who want to use it.

Families with small children, teenagers (wherever they come from), dogs, even those like me who only use the park occasionally for the farmer's market or when I visit Basic's or the hot dog vendor on the corner and sit reading.

ALL should have access to the park!

Hamilton Park is not some private park for gentry like NYC's Gramercy Park under lock and key and as Geoff correctly points out Hamilton Park is "...a citywide resource.".

Those of you who live directly on the park (as I once did on 9th across from the basketball courts)should be glad that so many committed input by voted ballots in Jen's hard-working series of ballots to give all an opportunity to vote. I know firsthand as she personally delivered a ballot to me when I could not make it over. And I saw my comments on the original presentation to City Hall last November.

There is NOTHING being hidden in this process. If there are those who feel so, it is more a reflection on their personal bias towards one type of park for their personal vision and not the majority of those who voted in this process.

You can be sure I will be there at the public meeting to restate my support for what I already voted on and for the hard work of all those who contributed to this process, irrespective of their views. I am thankful for all your work

Posted on: 2006/8/21 22:20
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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The report looks good, well done to those who put in the time and effort.

Posted on: 2006/8/21 22:15
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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I second Brewster's comments.

Nothing has been hidden or distorted as to the process or results. Quite to the contrary, it's all been out in the open and transparent in the extreme -- with every comment meticulously recorded.

The HPNA Park Renovation Report can be found at: http://www.hamiltonpark.org/PDFS/HP_R ... tion_Community_Report.pdf

People are free to positively express their personal opinions about what ever they might wish to see in the park, but not at the expense of other points of view. Denigrating an acknowledged job well-done, is shameful and I'm sorry to see it again on display in Hamilton Park or this forum.

I personally think that no organization owns the park -- neither the HPNA, nor the Friends of Hamilton Park, nor even the residents living on or around the Park. It is a city-wide resource. Use of Hamilton Park must include sorely needed active recreational uses, including, but not limited to basketball, tennis courts, volleyball, children's playground areas, dog runs and clean lawn, pet free-zones. There are needs larger than our own petty self interests to account for in the redesign of Hamilton Park.

Just my two cents as they say...

All the best.

Posted on: 2006/8/21 21:47
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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Quote:

thetruth wrote:
amen minnie! thank you, thank you, thank you for telling the truth about how that vote was fixed. i just wish people really knew how things went down.

property tax payers in hamilton park shouldn't be forced to support a politically correct choice made by the handful of people that "count" the votes.


Thetruth, did you vote? Do you even know the people, your neighbors, who you are casually calling liars, cheats and frauds after they devoted months of their lives to this project to serve their community?

Do not take Minnie's paranoid fantasies at face value. HPNA took great pains to conduct the most professional survey ever in this city by a citizen group. We did everything in our power to be fair, even when we all were against a feature that some people proposed on their surveys, like the skatepark, we put the question to the people of HP. If the vote on the BB courts was packed with underage students, there would have been spike in the number of ballots filled out relative to the other surveys. There was not, and as 25Mc pointed out it was "202 to 55 in favor of BB Courts in the park." Not even close.

Minnie is simply irresponsibly slandering HPNA to discredit the survey and have it's results thrown out of the park process because the results conflict with her personal views for how the park should be used. She is the one trying force her views down people's throats, claiming only she knows what people "really" want.

Posted on: 2006/8/21 19:43
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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Is this being publicised? There should be signs in the neighborhood!
I will put some up if someone sends me a sign or image to print out.

This is an important issue going on, yet the HPNA aren't even meeting in August!

Robin.

Posted on: 2006/8/21 15:12
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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What about some sun safe sade for the kids play area, since nothing is set in concrete yet?

http://www.shadeports.com/playgrounds.php?CategoryID=1

Posted on: 2006/8/21 14:03
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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Brewster,

I will do my best to get some info before the meeting but I don't want to promise that I will post the drawing. I am not sure best course of action, as you can see even on this thread that this is deemed " a battle for Hamilton Park". I am trying not to inflame a contentious neighborhood situation far before the meeting.


The initial drawings are based on the community survey including, type of lighting, gazebo, dogrun, improved childrens' area, gardens... Importantly though, as Mcwilliams pointed out, nothing it set in stone and the purpose of the meetings are for the community to guide the process and changes that they think are important

Steven Fulop

Posted on: 2006/8/21 12:51
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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Quote:
Minnie wrote:

The top three items on the HPNA's own balloting efforts were:

1) Solve the dog issue/dog run/pet free areas
...


On the dog / dog run issue...

If there?s any lesson learned from VVP ?virtual? dog run, is that you shouldn?t declare a ?pet free? lawn and put up a sign until a dog run is complete and open for business. Any other alternative is practically unenforceable and unfair to conscientious dog owners.

There?s already quite a bit of pressure between dog-owners and other occasional users of the parks. Another ?pet-free? area without a real, viable, recognition of the needs/wishes of the dog-owner community will just make things uglier.

Posted on: 2006/8/21 12:49
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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amen minnie! thank you, thank you, thank you for telling the truth about how that vote was fixed. i just wish people really knew how things went down.

property tax payers in hamilton park shouldn't be forced to support a politically correct choice made by the handful of people that "count" the votes.

Posted on: 2006/8/21 6:28
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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Quote:

thetruth wrote:

in the name of god. let's not be stupid. the basketball court must go. 95% of the people that play on the court don't live in the hood, don't pay taxes,



The fact is... the majority of the community does not support the basketball court. It's supported mainly by the community group HPNA, the Dept. of Recreation and perhaps the City of Jersey City because tar and asphalt is less upkeep than grass and flowers. There are some local kids that use it, but there is another court in Hamilton Park which is underutilized on Brunswick St. If the court in Ham. park were taken out... the kids would only have to walk three blocks to this other court.

Remember... Green Acres grants are being sought and there is nothing green about asphalt. And err.... does anybody realize the trees in that area would be coming down to make room for it??? thetruth is right.... don't be stupid.... save our trees. If the court stays... it should stay right where it is. But these kids don't live locally. If you don't believe me.... just ask them.

Don't forget, it wasn't too long ago that I worked with the HPNA and worked on this park renovation balloting. I know all the tricks used to get the 202 votes to support it. It's not democracy... it's trickery. Underage voters at the schools (14 year olds) were rallied and allowed to vote.

I know any improvements to the park are welcome, even by me. But let's not let go overboard. Our needs must come first, before the boys from the other neighborhoods. Our needs must come first.

The top three items on the HPNA's own balloting efforts were:

1) Solve the dog issue/dog run/pet free areas
2) Grass, Flower Gardens, Open Space, Trees
3) Updated Childrens Playground

If you don't believe me, read the comment section from Vote # 1. It is the section that applies to public comment and asks for their top three needs. Although I thought this question should have been narrowed done to ask for only their # 1 need.... (not top 3 needs)... the answers are black and white. Baskeball court ranked very very low. In a nutshell, the community desires a passive park. A nice place to sit and sip coffee, read the paper, listen to a walkman, socialize, bring their pets, bring their kids, and admire nature... so close to our homes. It's not rocket science. Go the the park and ask people and hear the answers.... no balloting needed!

The battle for Hamilton Park is on now. These are the critical meetings to be present at. These are the only ones that matter and have ever mattered. Take them seriously.

Posted on: 2006/8/21 3:09

Edited by Minnie on 2006/8/21 3:25:03
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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The park renovation ballots are fairly comprehensive, but do not cover every aspect of the renovation of Hamilton Park. On the basketball court question - the courts staying or going - the results are unambiguous:


Q.6. Would you like to keep the basketball court in Hamilton Park?

A. Yes, I want the basketball court. (202 Votes)

B. No, I do not want the basketball court. (55 Votes)


202 to 55 in favor of BB Courts in the park.

There will be basketball courts in Hamilton Park. T&M will propose the location of the courts, which is not addressed in the survey.

I urge everyone interested in the renovation to become familiar with the survey results prior to the public meetings.

The ballots/results are located at:

http://www.parkrenovation.com

Individual comments which are part of the report presented to the city are not yet available online.


Quote:

thetruth wrote:
in the name of god. let's not be stupid. the basketball court must go. 95% of the people that play on the court don't live in the hood, don't pay taxes, and finally the court attracts scumbags. l

ose the court, and crime goes down in hamilton park by at least 20%.
that's what i was told off the record by someone senior in the jcpd."

Posted on: 2006/8/20 6:39
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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in the name of god. let's not be stupid. the basketball court must go. 95% of the people that play on the court don't live in the hood, don't pay taxes, and finally the court attracts scumbags. l

ose the court, and crime goes down in hamilton park by at least 20%.
that's what i was told off the record by someone senior in the jcpd."

Posted on: 2006/8/20 5:33
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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Quote:

ccitizen wrote:

how much did the vote last summer count? are those recommendations set in stone?



Nothing is set in stone unless the community remains as quiet as a... mouse.

I would suggest that all concerned community residents... reschedule any plans that you have so that you can attend this important 'plan viewing' and give your input. You know... speak now or forever hold your...

I've been informed that the gardens will be ripped out as infrastructure would have to be addressed. But I've also learned that new improved gardens with fancy sprinklers and a proper fence may not be going in its place. I'm told they will interefere with a structure, and that a basketball court is destined for that area. I'm also told this is a rumor. We don't really know. We shall see! We shall hear.

The Garden Pre-School is voicing their concerns.. to meet their needs. And you should voice your concerns too... so that your needs are also met. Whether you have kids or not. Have pets or not. Whether you use the park, or not. Because if you don't use it now.... and don't speak up and tell the T&M/politicians what you want to see come out of the renovation.... then you may be unhappy and continue not to use the park.

Come and participate and don't be shy.

The best advice is to attend the meeting. Everything at this point is a... secret.

Posted on: 2006/8/20 4:17

Edited by Minnie on 2006/8/20 4:50:21
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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Get involved in the process by attending the upcoming public meetings. This is an open process involving the community, so that no one will be left out. I understand that the survey results are a guide, and nothing is set in stone.

Posted on: 2006/8/18 18:37
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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how much did the vote last summer count? are those recommendations set in stone?

Posted on: 2006/8/18 18:09
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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Quote:

StevenFulop wrote:
Hopefully you all have been doing well and enjoying the summer.

I have been working with T&M and other city officials to push forward with the Hamilton Park renovation project, and as a result have scheduled three meetings for public feedback on the drawings.

As a side note, the initial drawing will of course be based on the community surveys that were completed earlier as well as initial input/ideas from the different community groups based in Hamilton Park

Best Regards and looking forward to moving this forward with your help.

Steven Fulop


Dates
8/30 - Initial drawings
9/5 - Initial drawings
9/21 - Revised drawings

Location and Time ?
St. Francis at 7PM


Steve,

Thanks for continuing to work on this.

Any chance these drawings could be made available beforehand so we can study them and have a more prepared, coherent commentary? Judging by past developer "presentations" to HPNA, there would also be less stupid, time wasting questions resulting from having just a few moments to study drawings from a distance.

Posted on: 2006/8/18 15:15
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Hamilton Park Renovation - Update
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Hopefully you all have been doing well and enjoying the summer.

I have been working with T&M and other city officials to push forward with the Hamilton Park renovation project, and as a result have scheduled three meetings for public feedback on the drawings.

As a side note, the initial drawing will of course be based on the community surveys that were completed earlier as well as initial input/ideas from the different community groups based in Hamilton Park

Best Regards and looking forward to moving this forward with your help.

Steven Fulop


Dates
8/30 - Initial drawings
9/5 - Initial drawings
9/21 - Revised drawings

Location and Time ?
St. Francis at 7PM

Webmaster Edit: Subject Line

Posted on: 2006/8/18 14:23

Edited by Webmaster on 2007/6/10 13:52:47
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