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Re: Golden Cicada Help from ACLU
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It is true that money talks wherever you go. The highest bidder wins. I am sure if St Peter's bid is the highest, they will get the property.

I felt that what St. Peter's was offering the Golden Cicada was very low. Look at how much an one bedroom condo in the area cost today. Tan probably couldn't even buy an one bedroom condo in Liberty North with that offer.

Rumor has it on Jclist that Captain Al?s Harbor Casino in Paulus Hook got two condos for him and his mother from K. Hovnanian when they bought him out.

Posted on: 2005/11/22 17:19
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Re: Golden Cicada Help from ACLU
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Neither form is acceptable, that being said the end result of this greed will fall squarely on the homeowners who have settled in this area to build a life and not turn a profit.

Posted on: 2005/11/22 17:10
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Re: Golden Cicada Help from ACLU
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Quote:

JCNY wrote:
This isn't about The Golden Cicada winning, is about the developers who want the land winning, and in Jersey City the developers always win. In all my years in Jersey City (since 1987) I can count on one hand the amount of times I've seen that restaurant open until recently, which just happens to coincide with the land issue. So this is not a win for the ?little man? against the machine, this is about the machine pulling a fast one on us all.
Enjoy the tax-abated luxury skyrise across the grammar school, I?m sure the children won?t mind the jackhammers pounding everyday for the next two years.


That's disappointing. I didn't know until now that this was basically just a developer issue. But, how could I have been so naive. Why would the GC owner refuse a buy out just to keep that little dive open?

However, St. Peters really does have egg on its face. They had a lot of nerve trying to use ED in the first place. A lot of nerve. In this world, I still prefer the corporate corruption to the religious. At least they don't pretend to be working for the "common good".

Posted on: 2005/11/22 16:55
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Re: Golden Cicada Help from ACLU
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This isn't about The Golden Cicada winning, is about the developers who want the land winning, and in Jersey City the developers always win. In all my years in Jersey City (since 1987) I can count on one hand the amount of times I've seen that restaurant open until recently, which just happens to coincide with the land issue. So this is not a win for the ?little man? against the machine, this is about the machine pulling a fast one on us all.
Enjoy the tax-abated luxury skyrise across the grammar school, I?m sure the children won?t mind the jackhammers pounding everyday for the next two years.

Posted on: 2005/11/22 16:07
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Re: Golden Cicada Help from ACLU
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The Jersey City Redevelopment Agency will pull out of the eminent domain case. The JCRA has also agreed to pay Tan a sum for legal expenses.

I hope it is not my tax money.

------------------------------
Vote goes tavern's way

JCRA quits bid to take it for Prep

Tuesday, November 22, 2005
By BONNIE FRIEDMAN
JOURNAL STAFF WRITER

The Jersey City Redevelopment Agency voted yesterday to support Mayor Jerramiah Healy's decision to pull out of the eminent domain case that would have transferred a Downtown tavern to a private Catholic high school for boys.

http://www.nj.com/news/jjournal/index ... 32654345319780.xml&coll=3

Posted on: 2005/11/22 15:32
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Re: Golden Cicada Help from ACLU
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I agree. I think what Prep is doing is a buncha shit. They have so much money, cough it up if you really want the property!

And this is coming from someone who graduated from Prep!


Posted on: 2005/11/12 0:30
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Re: Golden Cicada Help from ACLU
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"Let me ask you JRHP, does the city have the right to zone areas?"


Of course, and there's a process to uphold zoning laws, which I'm sure without political backing the owner of the property would have failed, if the proposed building violates it.


"the school never asked for the city to use emmint domain in all the years of planning"


By the same logic, they never objected to it either. That's no argument to defend them.


"the school approached the owners of the properties but failed to come to terms"


Your phrase is misleading. It's not that they failed to come to terms. The rightful owner of the property asked for an amount he thinks it (the property) is worth. The school thinks it's too much.

In a country ruled by law the transaction should stop right here. You don't pay, you don't get.

What do they do? They get political backing (the state's power) to take the property by force at whatever "appraised value" they think is fair.

I am not arguing that the school may have done great things in the past. That's not what this post is about. The fact of the matter is the school was going to take someone's property by force.

I don't know if a bigger field is better for the "common good" of JC. All I know is, if you want a bigger field, the owner of the extra land should get compensated appropriately or be left alone.

Posted on: 2005/11/11 23:03
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Re: Golden Cicada Help from ACLU
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Quote:

JRHP wrote:
"The Athletic Foundation became interested in acquiring the adjacent property only after it became widely known that the owner of the bar was pursuing a deal with an out-of-state developer to build a high-rise residential tower on the property."

This is even worse!!!! Do these guys think we're this stupid??

Dear Prep, thank you, but I don't need you to defend me from the big bad high rise. If you need the 7 stinking yards, come out and say it, don't fancy yourself the defender of the little guy!!

What a bunch of bullshit...

If you want the 7 yards, you should PAY FOR THEM WHAT THEIR RIGHTFUL OWNER WANTS!


Let me ask you JRHP, does the city have the right to zone areas? The area where the GC stands was rezoned for open area or recreational area in 1999. Can owners ignore zoning rules?
You seem to jump on Prep very quickly, however the school never asked for the city to use emmint domain in all the years of planning and development. I do think, but I am not sure, that the school approached the owners of the properties but failed to come to terms. The school said in its planning the field would not be a regulation football field. It never said it would make the field a "Home Stadium" for varsity football.
I do know the school spent 4 million dollars aready just on the field and another million plus on the courtyard, and they do make the grounds available to other schools and programs. The School has been a good nieghbor downtown for over 140 years and has done a lot of good for its students and the city.


Posted on: 2005/11/11 18:53
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Re: Golden Cicada Help from ACLU
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"The Athletic Foundation became interested in acquiring the adjacent property only after it became widely known that the owner of the bar was pursuing a deal with an out-of-state developer to build a high-rise residential tower on the property."

This is even worse!!!! Do these guys think we're this stupid??

Dear Prep, thank you, but I don't need you to defend me from the big bad high rise. If you need the 7 stinking yards, come out and say it, don't fancy yourself the defender of the little guy!!

What a bunch of bullshit...

If you want the 7 yards, you should PAY FOR THEM WHAT THEIR RIGHTFUL OWNER WANTS!

Posted on: 2005/11/11 0:22
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Re: Golden Cicada Help from ACLU
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Summagold, in the most plain terms I can think of, this is about the right to own your property. If the government has the right to remove you from your property then anything goes! Don't you see that?

It goes beyond questions of aesthetics. YOUR property would be next, tomorrow or in 10 years.

If you don't defend the right of the Golden Cicada to exist, then there will be no one to defend you when they go after you, your house, your money, your life.

Posted on: 2005/11/11 0:16
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Re: Golden Cicada Help from ACLU
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Summa, not going to bite your head off, but the issue is really bigger than whether it would be nice to have a bigger football field. The issue is whether or not individual citizens have any damn rights left.

Hopefully, the NJ legislature (other state legislatures) will pass regulations limiting the scope of eminent domain.

Have I ever been to the Golden Cicada? Nope. Would I be more interested in attending a prep football game. Yep.

Has eminent domain been used for worse purposes? Plenty.

But, we gotta keep our eye on the prize. Government intrusions into our private lives only appears to be getting worse.

-M




Posted on: 2005/11/10 23:00
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Re: Golden Cicada Help from ACLU
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I havent read all the replies to this forum nor have i been really keeping up on this subject. So, no one bite my head off! All i know is that me and my three brothers went to OLC school years before and we always did wonder about Golden Cicada. Come on everyone! Do we really think Golden Cicada should remain there? What an eyesore. Wouldnt we rather see a beautiful stadium?

Does anyone remember when the little store in the Prep courtyard burned down? Sometime in the 80's. After that store burned down, thats when Prep was really able to build their courtyard. And look at it now. Its pretty damn nice! Which by the way, added beauty to the neighborhood.

My three brothers graduated from Prep and we think Golden Cicada should go!

Posted on: 2005/11/10 22:53
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Re: Golden Cicada Help from ACLU
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http://www.stpetersprep.org/cgi-bin/displayNews.pl?id=353

Prep Responds to Mayor's Decision on Property Acquisition
Office of the President
School News
11/7/2005

St. Peter?s Prep?s Response to the Decision by the Mayor?s Office to Request that the Jersey City Redevelopment Agency Withdraw Its Legal Efforts to Acquire the Property on Grand Street & Marin Boulevard


This Gives Prep's side of the story

Posted on: 2005/11/10 17:05
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Re: Golden Cicada Help from ACLU
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DanL wrote:
Thank the power of increasing regional media coverage for the city backing off. As of Thursday evening, Mr. Tan said that no one with the city would talk to him or even just take and read his brief, not the mayor or any council members, all just brushed him off. I imagine he was surprised by this sudden about turn.
Thank the press, the media, and maybe Tuesday's election.


There was a mention of this on CNN on Monday night Nov 6, it got national coverage.

Posted on: 2005/11/8 15:49
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Re: Golden Cicada Help from ACLU
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Jersey City Drops Plan To Seize Tavern
1010 WINS AM NY ^ | 11/5/05 | 1010 WINS AM


Posted on 11/05/2005 6:00:57 PM PST by chet_in_ny


(JERSEY CITY) The city has dropped a plan to use its power of eminent domain to seize a neighborhood bar and turn the land over to a Roman Catholic high school, Mayor Jerramiah T. Healy said Friday.

Healy said he made the decision "after weighing all the issues" between property owner Cheng Tan, proprietor of the Golden Cicada tavern, and St. Peter's Prep, which wants the land to expand its football field.

"There are instances when the city's taking of private property for public purpose is appropriate, but this is not one of those instances," Healy said in a written statement.

The school built a new field last year next to the Golden Cicada, but its president, the Rev. James Keenan, has said it needs to be lengthened in order for the school's team to play its home games there.

Tan had rejected offers from the school to purchase part of his property.



(the Cicada was on Lou Dobbs on CNN last night too)

Posted on: 2005/11/8 15:45
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Re: Golden Cicada Help from ACLU
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DanL wrote:

Oh, by the way, he also suggested calling first before comming by to make sure the kitchen is open; 201.432.0048 (Golden Cicada).


I went there tonight without calling. It's about time I checked out this place. I had a cheeseburger.

They also serve fried rice, wonton soup, egg drop soup and dumplings.

Posted on: 2005/11/7 2:14
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Re: Golden Cicada Help from ACLU
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Thank the power of increasing regional media coverage for the city backing off. As of Thursday evening, Mr. Tan said that no one with the city would talk to him or even just take and read his brief, not the mayor or any council members, all just brushed him off. I imagine he was surprised by this sudden about turn.

He told me and another, that his battle was not about the money or even winning, but that he just wanted to be acknowledged and listened to.

Thank the press, the media, and maybe Tuesday's election.

Oh, by the way, he also suggested calling first before comming by to make sure the kitchen is open; 201.432.0048 (Golden Cicada).








Posted on: 2005/11/7 1:50
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Re: Golden Cicada Help from ACLU
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truthhurts wrote:
Who did rpinkowitz get her city job from? Mayor Healy of course.

Quote:

rpinkowitz wrote:
The decision and the vote to take the property were done in 1999, Bret Schundler was Mayor and Mariano Vega was the Ward E councilman, so kudos to the Mayor is a justified statement.


lol, that's a first.

Posted on: 2005/11/6 21:17
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Re: Golden Cicada Help from ACLU
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Thanks for the insight, Mr. hit-and-run single poster with editorializing nickname.

Posted on: 2005/11/6 21:06
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Re: Golden Cicada Help from ACLU
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Who did rpinkowitz get her city job from? Mayor Healy of course.

Quote:

rpinkowitz wrote:
The decision and the vote to take the property were done in 1999, Bret Schundler was Mayor and Mariano Vega was the Ward E councilman, so kudos to the Mayor is a justified statement.

Posted on: 2005/11/6 20:58
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Re: Golden Cicada Help from ACLU
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JRHP wrote:
Kudos to Healy my ass!

You mean to tell me he only "weighed" all the facts now out of the kindness of his heart??? Or is it the threat of more and more legislative action against the disgrace of eminent domain (including withholding federal funds among others being considered)?

Healy or the Prep, whoever took the decision to kill it, you could have done this months ago. Your reputations (the Prep's especially) have been forever tarnished. I for one won't forget...

I hope Terry sues the instant a ball falls on his roof. Damn, this makes me angry... hehe...



The decision and the vote to take the property were done in 1999, Bret Schundler was Mayor and Mariano Vega was the Ward E councilman, so kudos to the Mayor is a justified statement.

Posted on: 2005/11/6 6:43
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Re: Golden Cicada Help from ACLU
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The Kelo decision isn't the problem. The Supreme Court simply applied fifty years of eminent domain precedent which permits government to use private land for a public benefit. It changed nothing. It just affirmed holdings that stated that increased tax revenue was sufficient public benefit so as to be permissible.

In the Golden Cicada instance, Healey backed down because he was going to lose in court and embarrass himself in the process. By forcing the sale of the land to SPP, the City would lose tax revenue, since parochial schools are exempt from property tax. It's a public detriment, not a public benefit.

Posted on: 2005/11/6 2:57
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Re: Golden Cicada Help from ACLU
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Kudos to Healy my ass!

You mean to tell me he only "weighed" all the facts now out of the kindness of his heart??? Or is it the threat of more and more legislative action against the disgrace of eminent domain (including withholding federal funds among others being considered)?

Healy or the Prep, whoever took the decision to kill it, you could have done this months ago. Your reputations (the Prep's especially) have been forever tarnished. I for one won't forget...

I hope Terry sues the instant a ball falls on his roof. Damn, this makes me angry... hehe...


Posted on: 2005/11/5 23:20
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Re: Golden Cicada Help from ACLU
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This is terrific news. I'm Prep class of '97 and haven't been more embarrassed. If I still lived in Jersey City, I'd would have actively helped the Cicada. What a disaster.

Posted on: 2005/11/5 22:46
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Re: Golden Cicada Help from ACLU
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Nice catch Annod.

Kudos to Healy on this one.

It was insane from the beginning, and a PR disaster for the City and those clowns, the Prep.

I think the Prep told them to stop - too much bad press.

PS - they'll party like it's 1999 tonite at the Golden Cicada...

Posted on: 2005/11/5 16:01
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Re: Golden Cicada Help from ACLU
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I just saw the headline on News12 on cable. Jersey City will not seize the Golden Cicada through eminent domain.

-------------------------------------
Jersey City won't seize bar for Catholic school's ballfield
11/4/2005, 9:41 p.m. ET
The Associated Press

JERSEY CITY, N.J. (AP) ? The city has dropped a plan to use its power of eminent domain to seize a neighborhood bar and turn the land over to a Roman Catholic high school, Mayor Jerramiah T. Healy said Friday.

Healy said he made the decision "after weighing all the issues" between property owner Cheng Tan, proprietor of the Golden Cicada tavern, and St. Peter's Prep, which wants the land to expand its football field.

"There are instances when the city's taking of private property for public purpose is appropriate, but this is not one of those instances," Healy said in a written statement.

http://www.nj.com/newsflash/jersey/in ... 7221.xml&storylist=jersey

Posted on: 2005/11/5 15:17
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Re: Golden Cicada Help from ACLU
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The story made it to 1010WINS. The more people know about it, the better.
------------------------

Eminent Domain: Jersey City To Seize Bar

Oct 28, 2005 11:15 am US/Eastern
(1010 WINS) (JERSEY CITY) The city plans to use its power of eminent domain to seize a neighborhood bar and turn the land over to a Roman Catholic high school, which wants the land to expand its football field.

That has civil liberties proponents worried.

``This is one of the most egregious cases of eminent domain in the country,'' Steve Anderson of the Institute for Justice in Washington told The Star-ledger of Newark for Friday's editions.

http://1010wins.com/topstories/local_story_301111559.html

------------------------
Star Ledger:

Jersey City tries to seize bar for private school's field
Friday, October 28, 2005
BY STEVE CHAMBERS
Star-Ledger Staff

The Golden Cicada tavern in Jersey City sits alongside some of the state's most valuable real estate.

But when the city's redevelopment agency moved this summer to seize the bar and the back room apartment where owner Cheng Tan lives, it wasn't to make way for another gleaming office tower or upscale residential project.

Instead, the city plans to turn the property over to a Catholic high school, so it can expand its football field.

http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.s ... 30477287165620.xml&coll=1

Posted on: 2005/10/28 16:12
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Re: Golden Cicada Help from ACLU
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This is fantastic news. I really was wondering how out-of-hand this could possibly get before this guy got fair representation.

A football field. St Peter's administration, students and parents should be ashamed of themselves.

Posted on: 2005/10/25 14:01
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Re: Golden Cicada Help from ACLU
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The ACLU will definitely represent Cheng Tan. Here is the press release:

------------------------------

ACLU of New Jersey Defends Property Owner Against Government Seizure of Land to Give to Religious School

October 18, 2005

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact: media@aclu.org

NEWARK, NJ -- The American Civil Liberties Union of New Jersey announced today that it is representing tavern owner Cheng "Terry" Tan, who is fighting the Jersey City Redevelopment Agency's attempt to take his restaurant by eminent domain. Jersey City officials want to take Tan's land to give it to a parochial school, St. Peter's Prep, for its football field.

http://www.aclu.org/ReligiousLiberty/ ... Liberty.cfm?ID=19280&c=37

Posted on: 2005/10/25 2:44
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Re: Golden Cicada Help from ACLU
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what would Jesus do? Apparently kick people out of their houses.

This is absolutely disgusting. Even beyond the fact that using imminent domain to transfer from private holder to antoher private holder is a gross perversion of the original intent of eminent domain, the fact that a christian institution is using the power of the state to coerce a private citizen is a betrayel of every tenet that this institution is supposedly founded upon.

I try very hard to avoid catholic bashing (given that my better half is a papist), but its very obvious that "the church" has over the centuries earned a reputation for grasping materialism and the pursuit of power- something at odds with the church's ostensible mission. I would hope that the church would be concerned with that perception, as it seriously interferes with what ought to be its main goal, promoting love and fraternity amongst all people. Instead, I see a callous institution that wants to obliterate someone's house, remove a place of recreation for the community, and destroy a man's livilihood. All for 7 yards of extra football practice.


Posted on: 2005/10/11 14:31
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