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Re: Jersey City tightening control of off-duty work for cops
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Yvonne,first off I was responding to your particular post, secondly if you are going to repeat something you heard at a meeting you should be quoting the statement and give credit to the person who made the statement, at least thats what I was taught in English Class in Grammar School. Secondly every person with a Political job or Politician will attempt to access blame elsewhere for the rising costs, politicians and those with political jobs NEVER accept responsibility for any increase FACT!!They always blame someone or something else, example the property tax increase that just went into affect ,the current administration blames the previous administration. If you don't have the ability to speak in circles and not accept responsibility you won't remain in politics very long...

Posted on: 2013/11/27 11:32
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Re: Jersey City tightening control of off-duty work for cops
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I am repeating what was said at recent JCMUA meeting which I attend. Do an OPRA request for the comments.

Posted on: 2013/11/27 9:25
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Re: Jersey City tightening control of off-duty work for cops
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I notice that you didn't address this, officer jc344

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Sorry, Crossing Guards can ignore cars running Stop Signs just as well as an "off-duty" cop.

Posted on: 2013/11/27 7:14
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Re: Jersey City tightening control of off-duty work for cops
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Also Yvonne Off duty pay doesn't figure into the pension in any way shape or form..... Please explain how off duty figures into the pension, I would really like to know.

Posted on: 2013/11/27 4:22
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Re: Jersey City tightening control of off-duty work for cops
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Yvonne, if you seriously think that your water bill is high because of an officer working off duty detail for them, then you are totally lost. Fact most of the work for United Water is emergency work which they use on duty officers for . Secondly ,your bill is so high because Jersey City years ago decided to go private with the water co. and awarded the contract to United Water , yet still have MUA... Your water bills are actually higher because of the fact that it was privatized..... And just as a point I have a friend who is NYPD and he stated that he does in fact work off duty details at construction sites.... According to him a lot of officers chose not to work the details so they may not be covered, but I guess because You didn't see any Officers working when you were there it must mean that it is not required!!!

Posted on: 2013/11/27 4:19
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Re: Jersey City tightening control of off-duty work for cops
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NYC has more traffic but you do not see off duty cops, cones are put up and workers watch out for traffic. The reason is to retire with a higher pension. The paper had an article about one cop who made a massive amount of money. Our high water bills reflect the off duty cops at JCMUA. I still find it appalling that my neighbor had to hire an office duty cop when fencing was delivered.

Posted on: 2013/11/26 20:43
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Re: Jersey City tightening control of off-duty work for cops
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Jersey City council members, police union prez bicker over off-duty jobs

By Terrence T. McDonald/The Jersey Journal

A last-minute attempt to win support from Jersey City cops for a proposal to revamp how the city provides jobs to off-duty police officers went awry at tonight’s City Council meeting when council members and a union official bickered over the measure.

The sticking point is a provision in the ordinance, which cleared a legislative hurdle tonight, that would allow an officer to turn down an off-duty assignment if it isn’t guaranteed to run at least four hours.

Cops instead want a promise that they’ll get paid for a minimum of four hours no matter how long the job lasts, said Carmine Disbrow, president of the Jersey City Police Officers Benevolent Association.

READ MORE

Posted on: 2013/11/26 19:54
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Re: Jersey City tightening control of off-duty work for cops
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> The city might as well make me hire a fireman every time I have a BBQ

The ridiculous permit rules mandate something not far off this.

If you have an event such as a street fair or event in the park with food vendors, you must get a permit from the fire department and pay to have a fire-person on site throughout your event.

It's the same legalized bribery system as with the police at construction sites.

Robin.

Posted on: 2013/11/9 12:30
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Re: Jersey City tightening control of off-duty work for cops
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jerseymom wrote:
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Also, as another stated, would guards be pulled off their regular posts to handle jobs? Parents/kids appreciate the familiar face of their guards on their regular posts.
...


There are 365 days in a year. About 180 of those are school days. I think what's being proposed is not a case of EITHER cops OR crossing guards. It's having civilians manage a schedule that utilizes both. I think the crossing guards have plenty of free time in their schedule, and would welcome the extra work.

Posted on: 2013/11/9 12:00
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Re: Jersey City tightening control of off-duty work for cops
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jerseymom wrote:
I'm not a cop, so I'm not seeing this issue from their perspective. If there's a solid reason for safety that I'm missing for cops being posted to construction sites, I've yet to understand it and I'd like to learn. Like others, I've witnessed a lot of standing around by officers (again, tell me why so I can understand if this is a good thing.)

If it's an issue of traffic safety, I'm not sure crossing guards are the answer here. It seems we'd have to hire more guards to cover the amount of construction that's going on in the city. Would they require additional training to safely do this job? Also, as another stated, would guards be pulled off their regular posts to handle jobs? Parents/kids appreciate the familiar face of their guards on their regular posts.

Two suggestions - I think larger construction companies should be required to provide their own recognizable traffic detail. Make it part of the permit process if need be.

Or, perhaps this job could be worked into part of the re-entry program that McGreevy is working on. Put our money where our mouths are. Train local folks who are looking for jobs a marketable skill. Create a pool of reliable, local men/women; have them instructed by the police department (helps build bridges); and give them work that may put them back on the right track.


The question is simple. What ever happened to using Flagmen? As far as police training people to take over their cushy fringe benefits? That makes you sound naïve.

Posted on: 2013/11/9 11:40
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Re: Jersey City tightening control of off-duty work for cops
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I'm not a cop, so I'm not seeing this issue from their perspective. If there's a solid reason for safety that I'm missing for cops being posted to construction sites, I've yet to understand it and I'd like to learn. Like others, I've witnessed a lot of standing around by officers (again, tell me why so I can understand if this is a good thing.)

If it's an issue of traffic safety, I'm not sure crossing guards are the answer here. It seems we'd have to hire more guards to cover the amount of construction that's going on in the city. Would they require additional training to safely do this job? Also, as another stated, would guards be pulled off their regular posts to handle jobs? Parents/kids appreciate the familiar face of their guards on their regular posts.

Two suggestions - I think larger construction companies should be required to provide their own recognizable traffic detail. Make it part of the permit process if need be.

Or, perhaps this job could be worked into part of the re-entry program that McGreevy is working on. Put our money where our mouths are. Train local folks who are looking for jobs a marketable skill. Create a pool of reliable, local men/women; have them instructed by the police department (helps build bridges); and give them work that may put them back on the right track.

Posted on: 2013/11/9 10:36
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Re: Jersey City tightening control of off-duty work for cops
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Adonis when you have a road closed and a hole in the street who handles traffic when the inevitable happens and you have a motorist that goes around the cones and hits one of the workers I guess then we will know who the "idiots" are. Well thought out, please don't say it won't happen there have been plenty of instances where the motorist will stop exit there vehicle and move the cones and then when their stopped say but I only know one way...... you mean I can't drive down this road. So solve that issue before you call people idiots

Posted on: 2013/11/9 10:29
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Re: Jersey City tightening control of off-duty work for cops
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No cops at constructions sites period regardless if they are off-duty or on. They are trained and paid to fight crime. Working construction sites is a complete waste of resources given the exorbitant costs. The city might as well make me hire a fireman every time I have a BBQ. Idiots will never understand this.

Posted on: 2013/11/9 8:48
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Re: Jersey City tightening control of off-duty work for cops
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Yvonne, so replacing a sewer line ,the traffic or pedestrian traffic wasn't impacted in any way? again compare New York to Jersey City is apples and oranges. if you want to say We should follow NY 's way fine, NYPD gets to retire at 20 years with 65% pension and JCPD gets to retire at 25 years with60% as with differences in all the benefits and salaries , so if you want to suggest that we do things NY 's way I am sure our illustrious Governor would fiercely object. And just for the record I have a friend who is NYPD who states they do work construction details.

Posted on: 2013/11/9 6:31
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Re: Jersey City tightening control of off-duty work for cops
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I do not think we should pay for off duty cops or crossing guards. I can understand public events having to pay for off duty cops. I had to hire one when I replaced my sewer line. I see construction going on in NYC all the time, but no cop is on site.

Posted on: 2013/11/8 23:34
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Re: Jersey City tightening control of off-duty work for cops
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Your right dtjc not all jobs take 4 hrs to complete, however most construction companies would prefer to get the job done in 4 hrs straight instead over spreading it over 9 hrs and working at night and on weekends would only cost the company more money, and the cost gets passed on

Posted on: 2013/11/7 13:36
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Re: Jersey City tightening control of off-duty work for cops
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I get it vigilante when you shot inside the Loews nobody was inconvenienced? You were only concerned about the pedestrians , I wonder since I am sure there were emergency no parking signs were posted from ch Martin to at least the rite aid. While I am sure the Loews appreciated the $ 3500 they made that day I am sure all the other merchants were ecstatic about the effect of you taking parking spaces away had on there business!!! I only wish I could've been as altruistic as You

Posted on: 2013/11/7 13:32
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Re: Jersey City tightening control of off-duty work for cops
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Yvonne, so instead of the off duty cop you would rather pay the off duty crossing guard? Actually you would have to pay them more . Now you are sure they are showing up for work tired, yes cause immediately after their shift they sleep for 8 to 10 hrs a day just like everybody else, they don t spend time with their kids have a life outside of work you are not really serious about that are you

Posted on: 2013/11/7 13:28
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Re: Jersey City tightening control of off-duty work for cops
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Paying for an off duty cop is like paying an extra tax to live in this city. When I had to hire an off duty copy he stood on my stoop, blocking the entrance. You see them at work site either texting or talking on their phones. Then they show up for work, I am sure quite tired.

Posted on: 2013/11/7 12:32
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Re: Jersey City tightening control of off-duty work for cops
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I am really sure during your busy shoot you were busy worrying about the pedestrians! The fact that you state that youhad to pay 3500.00 to rent someones house for the day actually speaks to what you were really concerned about. If you were truly concerned about the pedestrian safety there would be no need to mention how much you paid for the house rental.Just think of all the taxpaying people during your film shoot that YOU inconvenienced, such as the people who actually live there or shop there and are forced to park sometimes blocks from their homes because the production companies have the emergency no parking signs up usually for at least a day and usually starting very early in the day, we know its very important that you have the catering trucks be able to park directly in front of your shoot. So don't be all pompous and state how you were so concerned about pedestrians.If you were truly concerned for example when you are filming in Journal Square theres no reason for the production company to rent out one of the parking lots to park there vehicles , oh wait then you would actually inconvenience yourself and not the residence, so lets not come on and post all your altruistic good thoughts


Nice try. The day we shot inside the Loews Theater in JSQ when they were making money that they could surely use the knucklehead cops started sending pedestrians INTO JFK Blvd. It was MY concern for everyone's safety that I ordered the cops to stop doing it. There was no need, just cops throwing their weight around unnecessarily. But yes, homes in Hamilton Park used to get paid handsomely for film shoots. Thousands of dollars helps offset the tax bill and Production Companies often compensated homeowners for off street/Newport Mall parking.

Posted on: 2013/11/7 12:18
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Re: Jersey City tightening control of off-duty work for cops
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And not very cost effective for the construction companies. Are they supposed to sit and wait until 9 am for the crossing guard to finish and stop again at 1130 start again at 1 and sto again at 2 and start again at 415 think of all the overtime that pse&g for example would have to pay . Who pays those costs? Crossing guards have to be on their posts until 9am back again at 1130 until 1 and back again from. 2pm until415 not a well thought out proposal


I forgot. Every job takes at least 4 hours. And must be done on a school day. Right!

Posted on: 2013/11/7 11:23
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Re: Jersey City tightening control of off-duty work for cops
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And not very cost effective for the construction companies. Are they supposed to sit and wait until 9 am for the crossing guard to finish and stop again at 1130 start again at 1 and sto again at 2 and start again at 415 think of all the overtime that pse&g for example would have to pay . Who pays those costs? Crossing guards have to be on their posts until 9am back again at 1130 until 1 and back again from. 2pm until415 not a well thought out proposal

Posted on: 2013/11/7 11:08
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Re: Jersey City tightening control of off-duty work for cops
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Exactly but if you read the Mayors proposed ordinance is to have crossing guards take over the off duty details which 90 % are during the day, I was simply asking how does he justify using crossing guards it makes no logical sense


How many hours/day and days/year do crossing guards currently work? About 4 hours a day, 180 days a year? Doesn't sound too tough to slot some additional work into this schedule.

And there may also be a side-benefit of construction companies being encouraged to schedule their work when crossing guards are available...less kids and school-related traffic around.

Posted on: 2013/11/7 10:53
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Re: Jersey City tightening control of off-duty work for cops
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Exactly but if you read the Mayors proposed ordinance is to have crossing guards take over the off duty details which 90 % are during the day, I was simply asking how does he justify using crossing guards it makes no logical sense

Posted on: 2013/11/7 10:23
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Re: Jersey City tightening control of off-duty work for cops
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Also who crosses the kids at school while the crossing guard is busy working the detail( 90% of details are done during the day !


That's a silly question. The entire program of paying city workers to assist at private events / construction sites is for when they are OFF-DUTY. So the crossing guards wouldn't be allowed to work at the private events / construction sites if they are already scheduled to work their normal jobs as a crossing guard.

Posted on: 2013/11/7 10:17
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Re: Jersey City tightening control of off-duty work for cops
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I am really sure during your busy shoot you were busy worrying about the pedestrians! The fact that you state that youhad to pay 3500.00 to rent someones house for the day actually speaks to what you were really concerned about. If you were truly concerned about the pedestrian safety there would be no need to mention how much you paid for the house rental.Just think of all the taxpaying people during your film shoot that YOU inconvenienced, such as the people who actually live there or shop there and are forced to park sometimes blocks from their homes because the production companies have the emergency no parking signs up usually for at least a day and usually starting very early in the day, we know its very important that you have the catering trucks be able to park directly in front of your shoot. So don't be all pompous and state how you were so concerned about pedestrians.If you were truly concerned for example when you are filming in Journal Square theres no reason for the production company to rent out one of the parking lots to park there vehicles , oh wait then you would actually inconvenience yourself and not the residence, so lets not come on and post all your altruistic good thoughts

Posted on: 2013/11/7 10:13
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Re: Jersey City tightening control of off-duty work for cops
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jc344 wrote:
Just a question for the mayor, when the crossing guard is busy working the off duty details who crosses the school kids at the crossings? The on-duty police officer? Who is going to direct traffic for the crossing guards who are working the off duty details being that according to title 39(State traffic code) crossing guards have no legal authority to direct traffic only to cross pedestrians safely? Who is going to issue the summons and impound the vehicles that are parked in the construction zone, again according to state law crossing guards don't have the legal authority to do so? Who is going to close the street since again State Law only gives that authority to a police officer or state certified flagman with the necessary permits? And who is going to pay the lawsuit when one of the crossing guards working the off duty illegally directs traffic and gets hit by a car ? And lastly why would a construction company who hires an off duty officer to save on the insurance costs hire a crossing guard when they would still have to pay the same fee (actually ten dollars more per hr since the city wasn't happy with the 4 million dollars in fees it pulled in this year) and would see no decrease in insurance costs?


Sorry, Crossing Guards can ignore cars running Stop Signs just as well as an "off-duty" cop. Something I've seen time and time again. And why are there so few film shoots around Jersey City compared to years ago? Because the JCPD made a concerted effort to gouge the production companies. I've seen cops needed and useful about 5% of the time I see roadside or construction work. Too Fucking bad. The gravy train is ending.

So glad there is less film shoots it upsets the neighborhood. Perhaps it wasn't the cop costs but the community reaching out to there council person to stop the permits.


Until you are paid $3500 for renting your house for a day. The cops were the disruptive part in my experience. I remember shooting in JSQ and telling the 6 cops we had that they could just allow pedestrians to walk by and to please stop directing them into traffic. Some things, like film shoots, should be left to the pros.

Posted on: 2013/11/7 9:56
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Re: Jersey City tightening control of off-duty work for cops
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jc344 wrote:
Just a question for the mayor, when the crossing guard is busy working the off duty details who crosses the school kids at the crossings? The on-duty police officer? Who is going to direct traffic for the crossing guards who are working the off duty details being that according to title 39(State traffic code) crossing guards have no legal authority to direct traffic only to cross pedestrians safely? Who is going to issue the summons and impound the vehicles that are parked in the construction zone, again according to state law crossing guards don't have the legal authority to do so? Who is going to close the street since again State Law only gives that authority to a police officer or state certified flagman with the necessary permits? And who is going to pay the lawsuit when one of the crossing guards working the off duty illegally directs traffic and gets hit by a car ? And lastly why would a construction company who hires an off duty officer to save on the insurance costs hire a crossing guard when they would still have to pay the same fee (actually ten dollars more per hr since the city wasn't happy with the 4 million dollars in fees it pulled in this year) and would see no decrease in insurance costs?


Sorry, Crossing Guards can ignore cars running Stop Signs just as well as an "off-duty" cop. Something I've seen time and time again. And why are there so few film shoots around Jersey City compared to years ago? Because the JCPD made a concerted effort to gouge the production companies. I've seen cops needed and useful about 5% of the time I see roadside or construction work. Too Fucking bad. The gravy train is ending.

So glad there is less film shoots it upsets the neighborhood. Perhaps it wasn't the cop costs but the community reaching out to there council person to stop the permits.

Posted on: 2013/11/7 9:33
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Re: Jersey City tightening control of off-duty work for cops
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Yvonne also to compare Jersey City to New York is apples to oranges, we don't pay the taxes New Yorkers do, we don't have the same level of costs New Yorkers do and if you believe and agree with how New York operates their Police and how they operate off duty work ,I guess we should model the Police Department after them and implement stop and frisk, I mean You are suggesting that we follow their lead on off duty why not on duty

Posted on: 2013/11/7 8:43
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Re: Jersey City tightening control of off-duty work for cops
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Yvonne, this is the best idea the city has come up with, I don't quite follow that logic because all of the costs of the off-duty officers are built into the bid, so the contractor will still have to pay the money (sorry my mistake instead of paying $5 per hr administrative costs they'll have to pay $15 per hr administrative costs) so actually it will be more expensive to use crossing guards who according to State Law title 39 crossing guards have absolutely no authority to direct traffic , close a roadway, issue summons , impound vehicles or enforce the laws, and please don't say the city will change a city ordinance, city ordinances or city laws cannot and do not supersede state laws (fact) no matter what the mayor says. Also who crosses the kids at school while the crossing guard is busy working the detail( 90% of details are done during the day !

Posted on: 2013/11/7 8:39
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