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Re: Future of Newport Mall
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Look, the mall sucks from an access point of view, having it right next to Metro Plaza sucks even worse. The mall is likely never going anywhere, even if I actually agree that a city could generally make better use of the space than standard mall (there's no reason you can't have a mall and still have standard block structure with some retail facing out).

The Metro Plaza is ugly, but it's right across Marin from those ugly apartments which also block off the streets and are fenced in, so even without it there you have a barrier for walking.

Being able to walk to the waterfront easily would be a big plus for JC, but the waterfront area sucks. JC is blessed with one of the best river front views in the country and it has almost nothing worth visiting. That is a shame


Posted on: 2013/4/3 8:35
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Re: Future of Newport Mall
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The Metroplaza property had a pre-crash plan to redevelop the property into roughly 8 high and mid rise towers with retail on the base and a park in the center.

The first of these planned projects was the 67 story Metropolitan tower which would have been at the corner of 6th and the Light Rail (directly behind the newly constructed Monaco Towers) on top of the existing Pep Boys. This tower would have included a parking garage.

Renderings:
http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showthr ... 291&viewfull=1#post148291

The economic crash has obviously changed plans for the original project, but given the quick reversal, I would expect something would happen to begin redeveloping the parking lot. The original owners have said that retail will always be part of the complex, and its likely that with large high rises, the bases of the buildings will continue to offer big box retail.


As for the Newport Mall, I think it probably has a few decades left. It was developed in a partnership between Lefrak and Simon, the mall operator. I'm not sure who actually owns the building or if the landowner is the same as the operator. Ultimately, Lefrak has a lot of land left to build on. At the current rate, at least 15 to 20 years. After Newport is built out to its original plan, there are also better lots to redevelop before the mall, like the A&P and Target facilities. These properties would require less demolition to redevelop than the mall.

At some point soon the mall will probably need serious renovations to stay current and operational. These are not great buildings designed to last for decades, and as it approaches 40 to 50 years old, it will probably be falling down. At that point, redevelopment will probably be cheaper than renovation, but only time will reveal the future.

Posted on: 2013/4/3 1:06
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Re: Future of Newport Mall
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Quote:

tommyc_37 wrote:
Not sure I understand your humor, Cory.


oh, I'm sure you don't.

Posted on: 2013/4/3 0:45
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Re: Future of Newport Mall
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Nope, Fulop all the way! And I am sorry for my word choice, you are correct that demolishing the mall is way more creative thinking than taking a slight detour around it. I am not sure getting rid of the mall or doing a massive overhaul would be a positive change. I just meant that there is a pretty easy way for runners to get to the waterfront from HP without cutting through the mall or Metro Plaza. I run that way all the time.


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tommyc_37 wrote:
"Quit your complaining"- now that sounds like the attitude of somebody who wants to make positive change in their community. I'd guess you're planning on voting for Healy, is that correct? He also seems to prefer keeping things at status quo as opposed to thinking creatively about improving.

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daisyduke wrote:
There is a pedestrian walkway/sidewalk right at the Northeast corner of the mall garage on Marin that will take you right past Staples and you can cross Washington and be at the waterfront. Run that way and quit your complaining. Without the mall and Newport and the Lefraks your neighborhood would not have developed into what it is today.

Posted on: 2013/4/2 22:24
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Re: Future of Newport Mall
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Yes this is this small aetna path that loops around the canal. It is fine for adults but less recommended for small children. I would not do it at night also. There are a few stony spots where one needs to step carefully but otherwise any runner or biker can make it through and it really doesn't add much in distance. I wish I could put the edited map but for some reason I can upload a picture even in the photo gallery.

Posted on: 2013/4/2 22:02
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Re: Future of Newport Mall
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Not sure I understand your humor, Cory.

Posted on: 2013/4/2 22:02
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Re: Future of Newport Mall
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The gravel path is at the end of Jersey Ave and a small street - Aetna St by the NJ Turnpike. It's not a "path" that you'd want to take your children on. Put the bikes in the car and ride to the park until the bridge is re-built.

Posted on: 2013/4/2 21:53
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Re: Future of Newport Mall
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Can you elaborate where this gravel path is? is this where the old crooked bridge used to be? I'm dying to take my kids to Liberty State Park on bikes - now that the weather is finally better (and DTJC streets is so dangerous for kids to bike around)! Appreciate it.

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Frinjc wrote:
As for the access to LSP, I did a run last sunday from DTJC to Ellis Island and back using the gravel path by the soon-to-be replaced-we-hope bridge around Morris Canal. Following this, a concrete slab and a path carved in the vegetation, one can relatively quickly access the other end. This little loop did not add much work to my run and there were skateboarders and a few people including bikers, it is starting to be known.

Posted on: 2013/4/2 21:43
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Re: Future of Newport Mall
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2) I don't have figures (hence why in my post I asked the question about the mall's financial success), but yes I do believe that the Newport Mall provides some jobs and some tax revenue. However, I would have to think that MORE jobs and tax dollars would be generated if a building or series of buildings replaced the Newport Mall - let's say, an office building with a capacity of 1,500 employees, and with 4 sides of the building lined with sidewalks and retail stores/eateries?


BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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Posted on: 2013/4/2 21:16
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Re: Future of Newport Mall
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"Quit your complaining"- now that sounds like the attitude of somebody who wants to make positive change in their community. I'd guess you're planning on voting for Healy, is that correct? He also seems to prefer keeping things at status quo as opposed to thinking creatively about improving.

Quote:

daisyduke wrote:
There is a pedestrian walkway/sidewalk right at the Northeast corner of the mall garage on Marin that will take you right past Staples and you can cross Washington and be at the waterfront. Run that way and quit your complaining. Without the mall and Newport and the Lefraks your neighborhood would not have developed into what it is today.

Posted on: 2013/4/2 20:47
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Re: Future of Newport Mall
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Frinjc wrote:
OK, let's keep a positive spin on that...: I think there are more than 0.1% HP residents walking to the waterfront from what I see and discussing with neighbors - more walk/bike commuters for sure. That being said the Mall acts as a separator for sure but it is hard to imagine it going away even by the power of the Holy Spirit...
As for the access to LSP, I did a run last sunday from DTJC to Ellis Island and back using the gravel path by the soon-to-be replaced-we-hope bridge around Morris Canal. Following this, a concrete slab and a path carved in the vegetation, one can relatively quickly access the other end. This little loop did not add much work to my run and there were skateboarders and a few people including bikers, it is starting to be known.


Frinjc - is the Aetna St path to LSP open again - I thought the pipeline construction is blocking that route to the park and you need to go up to Pacific and Johnston Ave to get into the park by foot?

That being said, I ran along the waterfront yesterday and the walkway from Crystal Point to Avalon Cove/Newport has finally be repaired and opened - no more running on Washington St to get to Hoboken!

Posted on: 2013/4/2 20:44
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Re: Future of Newport Mall
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OK, let's keep a positive spin on that...: I think there are more than 0.1% HP residents walking to the waterfront from what I see and discussing with neighbors - more walk/bike commuters for sure. That being said the Mall acts as a separator for sure but it is hard to imagine it going away even by the power of the Holy Spirit...
As for the access to LSP, I did a run last sunday from DTJC to Ellis Island and back using the gravel path by the soon-to-be replaced-we-hope bridge around Morris Canal. Following this, a concrete slab and a path carved in the vegetation, one can relatively quickly access the other end. This little loop did not add much work to my run and there were skateboarders and a few people including bikers, it is starting to be known.

Posted on: 2013/4/2 20:18
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Re: Future of Newport Mall
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There is a pedestrian walkway/sidewalk right at the Northeast corner of the mall garage on Marin that will take you right past Staples and you can cross Washington and be at the waterfront. Run that way and quit your complaining. Without the mall and Newport and the Lefraks your neighborhood would not have developed into what it is today.

Posted on: 2013/4/2 20:18
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Re: Future of Newport Mall
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Quote:

vindication15 wrote:
Quote:

tommyc_37 wrote:
As of New Year's, I've been going on regular 2-4 mile jogs, and since Liberty State Park isn't very accessible from downtown, I've been sticking to the waterfront and throughout the neighborhoods of DTJC.

One thing that strikes me the most is how the Newport Mall, almost obnoxiously, completely cuts off the waterfront from the rest of downtown. For a pedestrian, there is no easy way to get from the Hudson River to Hamilton Park, for example. What a sin! The mall and it's behemoth parking structure are a manmade barrier.

I understand that when Newport was built, the rest of Jersey City was viewed as undesirable. But are we now stuck with the mall forever? I've lived here for 7 years and it seems to me that Jersey City sees the value in new urbanism, the focus on the pedestrian, etc etc. I wonder if there are any way to "urbanize" the existing Newport Mall? Is the mall a financial success, overall? In our lifetimes, is there a chance that the mall will be demolished in favor of smarter development?

Similarly, I think the Metro Plaza parking lot is an awful "barrier" to the waterfront. It's ironic that an open space can be a barrier, but it really is not inviting to pedestrians. There has to be a better way to integrate the wonderful neighborhoods of Downtown with the waterfront. I have heard (on this site) that there are plans to develop the Metro Plaza lot, but are they realistic?


let me get this straight, you want to get rid of Newport and Metro Plaza because it blocks the .1% of JC residents who for some odd reason need to walk from hamilton park to the waterfront? Do you know how much taxes and jobs newport and metro plaza generates and supports? have you ever heard of a car? have you heard of a park if you need to run? Why not just propose a walkway from your house to the waterfront?
LMAO!!!! I with you here, tear down the mall.. huh?

Posted on: 2013/4/2 20:03
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Re: Future of Newport Mall
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Vindication,

1) I don't think it's "odd" for somebody to want to walk from Hamilton Park to the Hudson River. What is odd about that?

2) I don't have figures (hence why in my post I asked the question about the mall's financial success), but yes I do believe that the Newport Mall provides some jobs and some tax revenue. However, I would have to think that MORE jobs and tax dollars would be generated if a building or series of buildings replaced the Newport Mall - let's say, an office building with a capacity of 1,500 employees, and with 4 sides of the building lined with sidewalks and retail stores/eateries?

3) You lost me at "have you ever heard of a car" - that leads me to believe you do not understand the purpose of my post (or the purpose of living in a walkable city, for that matter).


Posted on: 2013/4/2 19:50
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Re: Future of Newport Mall
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Quote:

tommyc_37 wrote:
As of New Year's, I've been going on regular 2-4 mile jogs, and since Liberty State Park isn't very accessible from downtown, I've been sticking to the waterfront and throughout the neighborhoods of DTJC.

One thing that strikes me the most is how the Newport Mall, almost obnoxiously, completely cuts off the waterfront from the rest of downtown. For a pedestrian, there is no easy way to get from the Hudson River to Hamilton Park, for example. What a sin! The mall and it's behemoth parking structure are a manmade barrier.

I understand that when Newport was built, the rest of Jersey City was viewed as undesirable. But are we now stuck with the mall forever? I've lived here for 7 years and it seems to me that Jersey City sees the value in new urbanism, the focus on the pedestrian, etc etc. I wonder if there are any way to "urbanize" the existing Newport Mall? Is the mall a financial success, overall? In our lifetimes, is there a chance that the mall will be demolished in favor of smarter development?

Similarly, I think the Metro Plaza parking lot is an awful "barrier" to the waterfront. It's ironic that an open space can be a barrier, but it really is not inviting to pedestrians. There has to be a better way to integrate the wonderful neighborhoods of Downtown with the waterfront. I have heard (on this site) that there are plans to develop the Metro Plaza lot, but are they realistic?


let me get this straight, you want to get rid of Newport and Metro Plaza because it blocks the .1% of JC residents who for some odd reason need to walk from hamilton park to the waterfront? Do you know how much taxes and jobs newport and metro plaza generates and supports? have you ever heard of a car? have you heard of a park if you need to run? Why not just propose a walkway from your house to the waterfront?

Posted on: 2013/4/2 19:40
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Future of Newport Mall
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As of New Year's, I've been going on regular 2-4 mile jogs, and since Liberty State Park isn't very accessible from downtown, I've been sticking to the waterfront and throughout the neighborhoods of DTJC.

One thing that strikes me the most is how the Newport Mall, almost obnoxiously, completely cuts off the waterfront from the rest of downtown. For a pedestrian, there is no easy way to get from the Hudson River to Hamilton Park, for example. What a sin! The mall and it's behemoth parking structure are a manmade barrier.

I understand that when Newport was built, the rest of Jersey City was viewed as undesirable. But are we now stuck with the mall forever? I've lived here for 7 years and it seems to me that Jersey City sees the value in new urbanism, the focus on the pedestrian, etc etc. I wonder if there are any way to "urbanize" the existing Newport Mall? Is the mall a financial success, overall? In our lifetimes, is there a chance that the mall will be demolished in favor of smarter development?

Similarly, I think the Metro Plaza parking lot is an awful "barrier" to the waterfront. It's ironic that an open space can be a barrier, but it really is not inviting to pedestrians. There has to be a better way to integrate the wonderful neighborhoods of Downtown with the waterfront. I have heard (on this site) that there are plans to develop the Metro Plaza lot, but are they realistic?

Posted on: 2013/4/2 19:26
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