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Re: Mayor Healy Says we don't need more open space
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injcsince81 wrote:
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JPhurst wrote:
There are two formulas that T&M Associates, who prepared the Recreation Master Plan, used to determine how much open space is needed in Jersey City. The city falls well short under both standards.

Under the Balanced Land Use Standard, the city would develop 3% of its developable land as open space. County and State open space is not included in this formula. Under this standard, Jersey City would need 356 acres of open space. It currently has 143.

Under the Core System Standard (used by the National Recreation and Park Association), municipalities should have 10.5 acres of open space for every 1000 people. Under this formula, Jersey City would need 2,521 acres of open space. Including county and state parkland, it currently has 1,524.

We need more parks, and the city is turning down opportunities to acquire them.


These are the numbers I asked for in my original post in this thread.

Thanks for providing them.

I still don't understand why state and county green space is not included in the formula (you can easily imagine a small city where a great majority of area within city limits is occupied by a state park - would they still demand more municipal parks?)


Formula one doesn't include county and state park acreage. Formula two does.

Posted on: 2007/4/15 21:17
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Re: Mayor Healy Says we don't need more open space
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JPhurst wrote:
There are two formulas that T&M Associates, who prepared the Recreation Master Plan, used to determine how much open space is needed in Jersey City. The city falls well short under both standards.

Under the Balanced Land Use Standard, the city would develop 3% of its developable land as open space. County and State open space is not included in this formula. Under this standard, Jersey City would need 356 acres of open space. It currently has 143.

Under the Core System Standard (used by the National Recreation and Park Association), municipalities should have 10.5 acres of open space for every 1000 people. Under this formula, Jersey City would need 2,521 acres of open space. Including county and state parkland, it currently has 1,524.

We need more parks, and the city is turning down opportunities to acquire them.


These are the numbers I asked for in my original post in this thread.

Thanks for providing them.

I still don't understand why state and county green space is not included in the formula (you can easily imagine a small city where a great majority of area within city limits is occupied by a state park - would they still demand more municipal parks?)

Posted on: 2007/4/15 19:39
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Re: Mayor Healy Says we don't need more open space
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There are two formulas that T&M Associates, who prepared the Recreation Master Plan, used to determine how much open space is needed in Jersey City. The city falls well short under both standards.

Under the Balanced Land Use Standard, the city would develop 3% of its developable land as open space. County and State open space is not included in this formula. Under this standard, Jersey City would need 356 acres of open space. It currently has 143.

Under the Core System Standard (used by the National Recreation and Park Association), municipalities should have 10.5 acres of open space for every 1000 people. Under this formula, Jersey City would need 2,521 acres of open space. Including county and state parkland, it currently has 1,524.

We need more parks, and the city is turning down opportunities to acquire them.

Posted on: 2007/4/15 18:58
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Re: Mayor Healy Says we don't need more open space
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missa wrote:
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injcsince81 wrote:
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missa wrote:
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injcsince81 wrote:
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missa wrote:
oh yeah, and how much of LSP will be available to us in the future with all of the private interests "buttinsky-ing" into it, between the "reasonably-priced" liberty national golf course with the outrageous membership fees that were supposed to be "easily attainable" for any city resident and provide many jobs for city residents and selling scenic property to build restaurants...

and still we have no working water fountains...

oh, and our scenic dirt mound and our "public" greenspace at society hill.

yup. gotta love jersey city.



Liberty National Golf course is on PRIVATE land.

Get your facts straight and quit digging the hole deeper.



liberty national golf course was originally part of liberty state park and was sold to a private to develop, tonto.


Totally two different projects, honey.

The idea of a public Golf Course on LSP land in the 90s was killed by public opposition.

Nothing was sold.

The developer of of Liberty National Golf Club in CAVEN POINT (not LSP) is Applied Companies which bought the private land from then-bankrupt Port Liberte. Then they brought billionaire Paul Fireman on board and built the private Liberty National Golf Course on land that WAS NEVER an LSP land.

NEVER.

Again - get your facts straight, or better yet, cure your hangover, coz you're not making any sense.


oh, so i guess they set aside space for the hudson county walkway then...


Correct.

They (Liberty National Golf Club), as any developer, are required by state law to provide public access to the waterfront.

Posted on: 2007/4/15 17:31
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Re: Mayor Healy Says we don't need more open space
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do you think the turnpike authority would let that land be used as ballfields or park land?

how would one go about making that happen?

fulop?

Posted on: 2007/4/15 17:09
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Re: Mayor Healy Says we don't need more open space
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That land under the turnpike extention belongs to the turnpike authority and the city has at least 2 baseball fields developed next to it, by the public school off third street and another nicer baseball complex near off Brunswick near Pavonia.
A lot of Liberty State park was originally the Jersey Central railroad yards for it's passenger trains (hence the terminal building).
LIke the reservoir, the embankment is raw land located in a neighborhood which makes it so important to save and use for a park. Liberty State is great and we owe the farsighted individuals like Sam Pesin (sorry if the spelling is off) and others who saved it. But for most residents, it is a light rail or car ride away.
Those who are fighting for the embankment have the same vision as those who fought for LSP..
And BTW, I have Liberty State park license plates, where a slice of the registeration fee goes to the park. Anyone who enjoys it, should do the same. You can get them from the DMV online when you renew your registration and don't have to set foot in a DMV agency. It's a good way to support your local park.

Posted on: 2007/4/15 17:04
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Re: Mayor Healy Says we don't need more open space
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Quote:

injcsince81 wrote:
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missa wrote:
Quote:

injcsince81 wrote:
Quote:

missa wrote:
oh yeah, and how much of LSP will be available to us in the future with all of the private interests "buttinsky-ing" into it, between the "reasonably-priced" liberty national golf course with the outrageous membership fees that were supposed to be "easily attainable" for any city resident and provide many jobs for city residents and selling scenic property to build restaurants...

and still we have no working water fountains...

oh, and our scenic dirt mound and our "public" greenspace at society hill.

yup. gotta love jersey city.



Liberty National Golf course is on PRIVATE land.

Get your facts straight and quit digging the hole deeper.



liberty national golf course was originally part of liberty state park and was sold to a private to develop, tonto.


Totally two different projects, honey.

The idea of a public Golf Course on LSP land in the 90s was killed by public opposition.

Nothing was sold.

The developer of of Liberty National Golf Club in CAVEN POINT (not LSP) is Applied Companies which bought the private land from then-bankrupt Port Liberte. Then they brought billionaire Paul Fireman on board and built the private Liberty National Golf Course on land that WAS NEVER an LSP land.

NEVER.

Again - get your facts straight, or better yet, cure your hangover, coz you're not making any sense.


oh, so i guess they set aside space for the hudson county walkway then...

Posted on: 2007/4/15 16:36
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Re: Mayor Healy Says we don't need more open space
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missa wrote:
Quote:

injcsince81 wrote:
Quote:

missa wrote:
oh yeah, and how much of LSP will be available to us in the future with all of the private interests "buttinsky-ing" into it, between the "reasonably-priced" liberty national golf course with the outrageous membership fees that were supposed to be "easily attainable" for any city resident and provide many jobs for city residents and selling scenic property to build restaurants...

and still we have no working water fountains...

oh, and our scenic dirt mound and our "public" greenspace at society hill.

yup. gotta love jersey city.



Liberty National Golf course is on PRIVATE land.

Get your facts straight and quit digging the hole deeper.



liberty national golf course was originally part of liberty state park and was sold to a private to develop, tonto.


Totally two different projects, honey.

The idea of a public Golf Course on LSP land in the 90s was killed by public opposition.

Nothing was sold.

The developer of of Liberty National Golf Club in CAVEN POINT (not LSP) is Applied Companies which bought the private land from then-bankrupt Port Liberte. Then they brought billionaire Paul Fireman on board and built the private Liberty National Golf Course on land that WAS NEVER an LSP land.

NEVER.

Again - get your facts straight, or better yet, cure your hangover, coz you're not making any sense.

Posted on: 2007/4/15 16:25
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Re: Mayor Healy Says we don't need more open space
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injcsince81 wrote:
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missa wrote:
oh yeah, and how much of LSP will be available to us in the future with all of the private interests "buttinsky-ing" into it, between the "reasonably-priced" liberty national golf course with the outrageous membership fees that were supposed to be "easily attainable" for any city resident and provide many jobs for city residents and selling scenic property to build restaurants...

and still we have no working water fountains...

oh, and our scenic dirt mound and our "public" greenspace at society hill.

yup. gotta love jersey city.



Liberty National Golf course is on PRIVATE land.

Get your facts straight and quit digging the hole deeper.



liberty national golf course was originally part of liberty state park and was sold to a private to develop, tonto.

Posted on: 2007/4/15 16:09
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Re: Mayor Healy Says we don't need more open space
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injcsince81 wrote:
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missa wrote:
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injcsince81 wrote:
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missa wrote:
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injcsince81 wrote:
With a 1,100 acre LSP within its limits, isn't Jersey City well-provided for with green areas (on an area percentage basis), as cities go?

Particularly cities located in major metro areas?

I don't know the answer, but having some stats regarding this matter would be great.

Without such data both Healy and the open space proponents are just full of hot air.



LSP is Liberty STATE Park. it is run by the state parks commission.

will people stop calling this a city park, although with the non working fountains and dirty bathrooms, it does seem an awful lot like a city park.





Where did I say it was a CITY park?

I said it's within the city limits, and it's 1,100 acre green area.

Further, LSP being within city limits makes access to it very easy for JC residents.

While obviously a STATE park (duh, missa - thanks for pointing out that revelation to me), it is still 1,100 acres of green space within the city limits, so aren't all these calls about JC having very little green spaces a bit disingenuous?




regardless of my revelation mr. chuckles, this is the the hudson county green space map.

compared to the amount of people who would like to see projects like the embankment become a reality our council people and city government are doing a crappy job of representing those of us who would like to see more open space available to the public.

its not about the state park not being enough, as much as it is about conserving open space for the future especially in the midst of rampant development.


LSP is 1,100 acres of green space located in JC.

Apparently you and the embankment park supporters don't take that fact into consideration when lobbying for the embankment on the platform of "lack of green space in JC".

How convenient.




where did I say that i wanted the embankment because we lacked green space in jc?

please find the post. i would like to see it.

its far more convienent to lump my words in with someone elses when you dont clearly know my position on the issue.

Posted on: 2007/4/15 16:07
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Re: Mayor Healy Says we don't need more open space
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missa wrote:
oh yeah, and how much of LSP will be available to us in the future with all of the private interests "buttinsky-ing" into it, between the "reasonably-priced" liberty national golf course with the outrageous membership fees that were supposed to be "easily attainable" for any city resident and provide many jobs for city residents and selling scenic property to build restaurants...

and still we have no working water fountains...

oh, and our scenic dirt mound and our "public" greenspace at society hill.

yup. gotta love jersey city.



Liberty National Golf course is on PRIVATE land.

Get your facts straight and quit digging the hole deeper.

Posted on: 2007/4/15 16:07
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Re: Mayor Healy Says we don't need more open space
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oh yeah, and how much of LSP will be available to us in the future with all of the private interests "buttinsky-ing" into it, between the "reasonably-priced" liberty national golf course with the outrageous membership fees that were supposed to be "easily attainable" for any city resident and provide many jobs for city residents and selling scenic property to build restaurants...

and still we have no working water fountains...

oh, and our scenic dirt mound and our "public" greenspace at society hill.

yup. gotta love jersey city.

Posted on: 2007/4/15 16:05
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Re: Mayor Healy Says we don't need more open space
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missa wrote:
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injcsince81 wrote:
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missa wrote:
Quote:

injcsince81 wrote:
With a 1,100 acre LSP within its limits, isn't Jersey City well-provided for with green areas (on an area percentage basis), as cities go?

Particularly cities located in major metro areas?

I don't know the answer, but having some stats regarding this matter would be great.

Without such data both Healy and the open space proponents are just full of hot air.



LSP is Liberty STATE Park. it is run by the state parks commission.

will people stop calling this a city park, although with the non working fountains and dirty bathrooms, it does seem an awful lot like a city park.





Where did I say it was a CITY park?

I said it's within the city limits, and it's 1,100 acre green area.

Further, LSP being within city limits makes access to it very easy for JC residents.

While obviously a STATE park (duh, missa - thanks for pointing out that revelation to me), it is still 1,100 acres of green space within the city limits, so aren't all these calls about JC having very little green spaces a bit disingenuous?




regardless of my revelation mr. chuckles, this is the the hudson county green space map.

compared to the amount of people who would like to see projects like the embankment become a reality our council people and city government are doing a crappy job of representing those of us who would like to see more open space available to the public.

its not about the state park not being enough, as much as it is about conserving open space for the future especially in the midst of rampant development.


LSP is 1,100 acres of green space located in JC.

Apparently you and the embankment park supporters don't take that fact into consideration when lobbying for the embankment on the platform of "lack of green space in JC".

How convenient.

Posted on: 2007/4/15 16:04
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Re: Mayor Healy Says we don't need more open space
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I can't believe I voted for that lying nitwit.

Acreage should not the the only measure of whether a city has enough park space. Half of LSP is closed to the public because of toxic waste. That doesn't really do anyone any good. Location and access are also important. LSP is not really convenient to any neighborhood by foot.

I've got a great idea- how about taking that abandoned railroad embankment running through the heart of downtown and turning it into a park. What do you think Mayor Healy? Oh, you support it. Great! Now let's see you make it happen.

Posted on: 2007/4/15 16:02
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Re: Mayor Healy Says we don't need more open space
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what about all that space under the jersey city extension?

who owns it ?

could it be developed as park?

Posted on: 2007/4/15 15:51
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Re: Mayor Healy Says we don't need more open space
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Quote:

injcsince81 wrote:
Quote:

missa wrote:
Quote:

injcsince81 wrote:
With a 1,100 acre LSP within its limits, isn't Jersey City well-provided for with green areas (on an area percentage basis), as cities go?

Particularly cities located in major metro areas?

I don't know the answer, but having some stats regarding this matter would be great.

Without such data both Healy and the open space proponents are just full of hot air.



LSP is Liberty STATE Park. it is run by the state parks commission.

will people stop calling this a city park, although with the non working fountains and dirty bathrooms, it does seem an awful lot like a city park.





Where did I say it was a CITY park?

I said it's within the city limits, and it's 1,100 acre green area.

Further, LSP being within city limits makes access to it very easy for JC residents.

While obviously a STATE park (duh, missa - thanks for pointing out that revelation to me), it is still 1,100 acres of green space within the city limits, so aren't all these calls about JC having very little green spaces a bit disingenuous?




regardless of my revelation mr. chuckles, this is the the hudson county green space map.

compared to the amount of people who would like to see projects like the embankment become a reality our council people and city government are doing a crappy job of representing those of us who would like to see more open space available to the public.

its not about the state park not being enough, as much as it is about conserving open space for the future especially in the midst of rampant development.

Posted on: 2007/4/15 15:47
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Re: Mayor Healy Says we don't need more open space
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missa wrote:
Quote:

injcsince81 wrote:
With a 1,100 acre LSP within its limits, isn't Jersey City well-provided for with green areas (on an area percentage basis), as cities go?

Particularly cities located in major metro areas?

I don't know the answer, but having some stats regarding this matter would be great.

Without such data both Healy and the open space proponents are just full of hot air.



LSP is Liberty STATE Park. it is run by the state parks commission.

will people stop calling this a city park, although with the non working fountains and dirty bathrooms, it does seem an awful lot like a city park.


Where did I say it was a CITY park?

I said it's within the city limits, and it's 1,100 acre green area.

Further, LSP being within city limits makes access to it very easy for JC residents.

While obviously a STATE park (duh, missa - thanks for pointing out that revelation to me), it is still 1,100 acres of green space within the city limits, so aren't all these calls about JC having very little green spaces a bit disingenuous?

Posted on: 2007/4/15 15:26
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Re: Mayor Healy Says we don't need more open space
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injcsince81 wrote:
With a 1,100 acre LSP within its limits, isn't Jersey City well-provided for with green areas (on an area percentage basis), as cities go?

Particularly cities located in major metro areas?

I don't know the answer, but having some stats regarding this matter would be great.

Without such data both Healy and the open space proponents are just full of hot air.



LSP is Liberty STATE Park. it is run by the state parks commission.

will people stop calling this a city park, although with the non working fountains and dirty bathrooms, it does seem an awful lot like a city park.

Posted on: 2007/4/15 15:03
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Re: Mayor Healy Says we don't need more open space - even more evidence
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I just got this email this weekend. It proves even more how uncommitted the city and council are to open space.


Dear Friend of the Embankment,

Strange but true: Mayor Healy and the Municipal Council say they want to acquire the Harsimus Stem Embankment on 6th Street, but they sure seem to be doing their best to lose this historic and open space resource for the City.

Most recently, the Council refused to support an application for a New Jersey Environmental Infrastructure Trust loan that would have provided ready money for the City to acquire the Embankment.

While Council President Mariano Vega, Councilwoman-at-large Willie Flood, and Ward E Councilman Steven Fulop wisely and consistently supported the application, the four other Councilpeople present (Councilman-at-large Peter Brennan, Ward A Councilman Michael Sottolano, Ward B Councilwoman Mary Spinello, and Ward F Councilwoman Viola Richardson) voted no. Some of the comments made by the no-voters were astonishing in their misunderstanding of the issue or parochial ("it's not in my ward") mentality.

The application would have enabled the City to access $5 million to acquire the Embankment when the federal Surface Transportation Board rules on its status--a decision expected imminently. 75% of the loan was at NO interest with the rest at lowest market-rate interest - making the overall interest about 1%. The loan would have been repayable by a pledge and reimbursable grants already awarded in the amount of $3.7 million, as well as by highly probable grant awards for which Mayor Healy is now refusing to file applications.
These actions (or inaction) make no sense, unless the City wants to lose this site and previous positions of the Administration and Council were mere political posturing. After all, three Administrations and two Councils have acknowledged the historic importance of the Embankment. They made it a Municipal Landmark. They endorsed its reuse as open space and greenway. The Council authorized the Administration to proceed with acquisition. Both the state and federal governments have awarded funds for acquisition. Now, however, this Administration and Council is crippling its own ability to acquire the site, by stalling paperwork and refusing to pursue this bridge loan. The Mayor says he wants the Embankment for light rail, but he has identified no funds for light rail. He is walking away from state and federal open space funds already awarded.

These elected officials owe the public a rational explanation. The question they should answer is: "Now that you are walking away from state and federal funding for the Embankment, what is your plan to acquire it?"

Sincerely,
Jennifer Meyer, President
Embankment Preservation Coalition

Ask what our leaders are doing to acquire the Embankment:
Email the mayor at MayorHealy@jcnj.org or call 201-547-5200. Call the City Council office and leave a message for all Council members: 201-547-5204.

Posted on: 2007/4/15 14:51
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Re: Mayor Healy Says we don't need more open space
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With a 1,100 acre LSP within its limits, isn't Jersey City well-provided for with green areas (on an area percentage basis), as cities go?

Particularly cities located in major metro areas?

I don't know the answer, but having some stats regarding this matter would be great.

Without such data both Healy and the open space proponents are just full of hot air.

Posted on: 2007/4/11 13:38
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Re: Mayor Healy Says we don't need more open space
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There's enough open space between his ears already.

[rim shot]

Posted on: 2007/4/11 13:27
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Re: Mayor Healy Says we don't need more open space
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I'll give ya an open space.....

Posted on: 2007/4/11 13:24
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Re: Mayor Healy Says we don't need more open space
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That's funny, because I just got that stupid magazine too and the first page says "Jersey City, It's An Oasis". Then towards the bottom there's a picture of Mayor Quimby himself and a quote about the reservoir:

"The development in our city is storied and has been the key to our renaissance here, but it is just as important to provide open space for passive recreation, walking, jogging, and an opportunity for people to fish, canoe and appreciate nature."

Interesting.

Posted on: 2007/4/11 2:11
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Re: Mayor Healy Says we don't need more open space
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Just wait until all the new residents and dogs make their way to Van Vorst Park and Hamilton Park from those residential complexes east of Marin Blvd and south of Grand.
You will need a ticket to enter the parks and be time restricted - then again the front of City Hall would make a great green area and dog run!

It would make a good reason to extend Jersey Ave to LSP for access.

Posted on: 2007/4/11 1:56
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Mayor Healy Says we don't need more open space
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Mayor Healy is quoted on page 42 of the recent issue of JC Magazine as saying " I think we have enough open space. I think anyone who's coming to Jersey City and wants to partake in lounging and walking nature's paths, I think they've probably come to the wrong place".

It must be nice that Mayor Healy has a summer house and can get out of the city. That is not the case for many of us who live in one of the states most densely populated areas. The ratio of park space to people is one of the lowest in the nation. The recreation master plan states that Jersey City does not have nearly enough park space and states that open space acquisition should be the city's highest priority.

This is a very dangerous comment that the Mayor makes and we should make him answer for it.

Posted on: 2007/4/11 0:54
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