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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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Your comments on my family is wrong, but it just show how sick you really are, while you like to use the term 'hater' all the time. The hate comes from you. You are so desperate to smear me, but you are just smearing yourself.

Posted on: 11/12 11:57
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Quote:

dr_nick_riviera wrote:
The entire contents of this thread should be screenshotted and mailed to the boards of every NA in Jersey City and they should be asked point blank if they want to continue to associate with such a noxious hatemonger. Many of her views run counter to that of their members and she should stop being invited to meetings or have any influence on their policies.


Another person who does not care about he victims of predator priests. At the end of my life I will be judged not by you, nicky but by God, and shame on me if I do not speak up about what is on going on in His Church. It is not a place for gay men to go to satisfy their sexual cravings. Not only should they be kicked out, but they should be excommunicated.


Poor bigot Yvonne, it must suck to live in a society that's rapidly leaving people like her behind: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/07/us/ ... ion-winners-midterms.html

https://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... ty_the_queerest_city.html

Stuck with two closeted children and without the grandchildren she so desperately wants in a society that's rapidly accepting of GLBT, the old hag has nothing better to do than lash out on forums and at city council meetings where she's laughed at behind her back.

Posted on: 11/12 10:44
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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Quote:

dr_nick_riviera wrote:
The entire contents of this thread should be screenshotted and mailed to the boards of every NA in Jersey City and they should be asked point blank if they want to continue to associate with such a noxious hatemonger. Many of her views run counter to that of their members and she should stop being invited to meetings or have any influence on their policies.


Another person who does not care about he victims of predator priests. At the end of my life I will be judged not by you, nicky but by God, and shame on me if I do not speak up about what is on going on in His Church. It is not a place for gay men to go to satisfy their sexual cravings. Not only should they be kicked out, but they should be excommunicated.

Posted on: 11/11 19:47
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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The entire contents of this thread should be screenshotted and mailed to the boards of every NA in Jersey City and they should be asked point blank if they want to continue to associate with such a noxious hatemonger. Many of her views run counter to that of their members and she should stop being invited to meetings or have any influence on their policies.

Posted on: 11/11 16:09
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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Your behavior, Sutherland and others remind of the Harvey Weinstein, but in the case for gay men. No one has the authority to sexually assault or use someone. Since more than 80% of the victims are male, it has been "let's pretend gays are not the problem, it is all pedophilia," except the victimizer do not care about the age of the victims. Like McCarrick, they take what is available which is minors to young men in their 20s in the seminary. You don't care, you just worry about public image. I am tired of reading about victims and I am tired of seeing church money, which I have paid through the years, pay for settlements. While I support compensation to the victims, if gay men did not enter the church, there will be 80% less victims and 80% less compensation. It has nothing to do with hate, it has to do with truth. I just hope you and other in the LGBT movement, go to Baltimore and hear from the victims. That is the least you can do.

Posted on: 11/11 14:23
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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Quote:

Sutherland wrote:
You blatantly lied when you said that I admitted that do not have sympathy. In fact I said just the opposite. You're not only sick and hateful, but now it's apparent that you're also a liar.

Again, as I've mentioned before, I was in the seminary during McCarrick's first year as Archbishop of Newark. The media has overly exaggerated what actually happened. SOME of the former seminarians and priests are out right lying. Of course, I never went to his beach house nor was I a victim in any way of any of McCarrick's alleged abuse.




Yvonne you're an idiot. A lying hateful idiot. There's no nicer way to put it.

Sutherland said, and I'm quoting "Your statement that I have no sympathy for victims is unsupported. I do have sympathy for them. The fact that I don't equate homosexuality to abuse in no way suggests I have no sympathy."

but carry on... who needs Netflix when we can read your posts.





Posted on: 11/11 12:08
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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You blatantly lied when you said that I admitted that do not have sympathy. In fact I said just the opposite. You're not only sick and hateful, but now it's apparent that you're also a liar.

Again, as I've mentioned before, I was in the seminary during McCarrick's first year as Archbishop of Newark. The media has overly exaggerated what actually happened. SOME of the former seminarians and priests are out right lying. Of course, I never went to his beach house nor was I a victim in any way of any of McCarrick's alleged abuse.


Posted on: 11/11 8:41
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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So you admit you have no sympathy for the victims. By the way, former Cardinal McCarrick's victim, will be speaking at the "Silence Stops Now" rally which will be opposite the Bishop Meeting in Baltimore, Maryland on November 13th and 14th. Thousands of people who are disgusted with the sex abuse in the church and the failure of bishops to kick out these predatory priests will be there. Why don't you hear what McCarrick's victim has to say? The abuse started when he was eleven and continued on until his teens. Victims have committed suicide including seminarians. Your answer shows you are an extremely selfish person. A minor has no authority over an adult especially someone in the priesthood, there has been lost vocations from seminarians who would not play the game that was expected of them and they were kicked out. I find your answer appalling, Sutherland. If you want supportive answers, then go to the rally. There will be other victims there, too.

Posted on: 11/10 23:17
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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My priority in life is to protect and advance the civil liberties of the LGBQT community here in the US and globally. Abuse is offensive. You're desperately trying to associate homosexuality to abuse is offensive, lacks compassion, demonstrates intellectual inability. Your statement that I have no sympathy for victims is unsupported. I do have sympathy for them. The fact that I don't equate homosexuality to abuse in no way suggests I have no sympathy. You're hateful and sick. Your right to vote should be taken away.

Posted on: 11/10 18:44
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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News flash, Sutherland, I hate no one and I leave the judgment only to God. But if you care about the abuse and the victims, then you must acknowledge that the majority of the abusers are gay men. If, however, your agenda is protecting the LGBT agenda, then you do not care about the problem at all. You prefer to blame the Church which has its share and ignore the gay men committing the crimes. You have no sympathy at all for these victims and how it has destroyed their relationship with other men. One man said in an interview, the abuse he received from a priest destroyed him emotionally and he cannot give his sons baths when they were little. It gave him flashbacks.

Posted on: 11/10 17:47
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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Fortunately for the rest of the world, Yvonne will never have any influence in Church or State. She is full of hate and lacks any intellectual heft what so ever.

Posted on: 11/10 16:17
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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More people are saying the same thing, the abuse in the church is due to homosexuality of priests.
http://www.ruthinstitute.org/press/ru ... lerical-sex-abuse-scandal

Posted on: 11/9 16:13
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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Who knew that shills would shill?

Posted on: 11/9 13:11
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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Clergy sex abuse on the rise again, and church leaders are ignoring why, sociologist says, The Catholic World Report:
Quote:
Denver, Colo., Nov 2, 2018 / 03:13 pm (CNA).- After years in decline, Catholic clergy sex abuse could be on the rise again, warns a professor-priest’s analysis of relevant data.

The professor’s report sees a rising trend in abuse, and argues that the evidence strongly suggests links between sexual abuse of minors and two factors: a disproportionate number of homosexual clergy, and the manifestation of a “homosexual subculture” in seminaries.

“The thing we’ve been told about the sex abuse is that it is somehow very rare and declined to almost nothing today is really not true,” Father D. Paul Sullins, a Catholic priest and retired Catholic University of America sociology professor, told a Nov. 2 press conference.

“I found that clergy sex abuse did drop to almost nothing after 2002, but then it started to creep up,” he continued. “It’s been increasing. And there are signs that the bishops or the dioceses have gotten complacent about that.”

“It’s not at the great heights that it was in the mid-1970s, but it’s rising. And it’s headed in that direction,” he added.

Clergy sex abuse incidence is today about one third as common as in the late 1980s. While sex abuse by clergy is “much lower” than 30 years ago, it has not declined “as much as is commonly thought.” Most of the decline since the 1990s is consistent with “a similar general decline in child sex abuse in America since that time,” Sullins’ report said.

Posted on: 11/8 13:33
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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Supposedly the church, and even more important, Christianity has problems with actively sheltering sexual assaulters as well, doesn't it?

Posted on: 11/2 12:00
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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Quote:

papadage wrote:
You do realize there is a much higher proportion of gay men in the Church than there is in the general population, partially because Catholics like yourself force them to be closeted? You do also realize that many male on male sex crimes are not gay, but are based on availability ad power?

Go read a non-fucked up book for a change.


No one forces anyone to join the seminary, it is voluntarily, it is not the draft. When you join an organization, you follow its rules in everything including sexuality. The Church belongs to Jesus. In Matthew 5:17, Jesus said, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." The Law Jesus referred to was the Mosaic Law which did have laws against homosexuality. So in my opinion, gay men entered the church to change it not to follow its rules.

Posted on: 11/2 11:28
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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You do realize there is a much higher proportion of gay men in the Church than there is in the general population, partially because Catholics like yourself force them to be closeted? You do also realize that many male on male sex crimes are not gay, but are based on availability ad power?

Go read a non-fucked up book for a change.

Posted on: 11/2 10:17
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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papadage wrote:
The issue is that your church has a thing for covering up abuse.


You are right, but you are ignoring the fact that the majority of the abuse are done by gay men in the priesthood.

Posted on: 11/2 9:35
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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The issue is that your church has a thing for covering up abuse.

Posted on: 11/1 20:55
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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Celibacy has nothing to do with the problem. I have read the gay population is between 2 to 10 percent. I don't which figure is right but that means 90 to 98 percent are heterosexual men in the world yet 4 out of 5 victims in the John Jay Report on sexual abuse were male teens who were abuse by priests. The issue is - gay men do not belong in the priesthood.


Posted on: 11/1 20:39
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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Liberal and liberal Catholic are not the same thing. These people still support the Church itself, which has been corrupt.

Another article calls the entire church structure corrupt, and that many traditions of the church, like celibacy, should be changed.

https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/our-myth-their-lie


Posted on: 11/1 20:12
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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Commonweal magazine, a liberal periodical said this, “One cannot deny that homosexuality has played a role in the abuse scandals and their coverup, and to dismiss this aspect as homophobia one would have to be either blind or dishonest.”
https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/double-lives

Posted on: 11/1 18:55
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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Aww thanks esp123! Taking you up on your invitation, while this isn’t exactly church history, the Hubble Law is being renamed Hubble-Lemaître Law to acknowledge Fr Georges Lemaître, the Belgian priest and astronomer who came up with the Big Bang Theory.

https://www.iau.org/news/pressreleases/detail/iau1812/

Posted on: 10/30 20:28
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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Edgewordwise – Your story is your story, and I should not have shut it down. And yes, this polarization and heatedness is not healthy, but I still do feel an obligation to counter the false conspiracies and fake news being offered, which I truly find insidious. It is precisely those using such tactics who are NOT as you claim you just want, arguing in "grounded arguments"
And you do you -- go on with sharing your church history – as long as it’s not used to further false conspiracies and support bigotry, I won't protest.

Posted on: 10/30 18:50
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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I am male and could have sworn you were a guy. Glad to have cleared that up. You might be old enough to be my mother, so thank you for reminding me to know my place. Of course my parents were overly trusting. It’s precisely this environment that was a recipe for the sexual abuse Cardinal McCarrick committed. Befriend a family, have his way with their kids. He wasn’t even acting in an official church capacity and used his air of authority to let him molest them.

I guess my byzantine scriptural allusions make you roll your eyes, huh? OK, I will spare you from any more. I don’t ascribe to those birther etc. conspiracies myself, but I find your shaming and insults to be putting gas on a fire. My point was simply that if you knew someone personally and just argued civilly based on well grounded arguments, then you make some progress. Instead we get these tiresome heated exchanges and get off topic.

I think i am done with this forum for now. I’ll just go back to lurking on JCList to find new restaurants to try.

Posted on: 10/30 18:11
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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Edgewordwise - wth are you talking about?

Your story is just so random and self-referential. And honestly, your retelling of it IS strange. You stated nothing happened. You stated the priest was in a separate room. You also stated, quote, you “COULD have been a victim,” the implication being you weren’t. Yet you then pat yourself on the back for not abandoning your faith and leaving the church?

What were you a victim of? A priest’s fear of the dark? Of parents who insisted you be there to “protect” a priest who was scared of the dark? If you felt uncomfortable, I'd understand, but you didn't relay that in your original retelling. (What jumped out at me was that your parents would actually have their daughter babysit an adult man – but that’s sorta more on your parents, not the church). And to equate your episode with victims who are alleging actual molestations, rapes, or sexual harassment by those in power, whether it be priests, Hollywood producers, TV network heads, future supreme court justices, makes you bringing up the story sorta random, yes.

You’re now prattling on, jumping from here to there, lecturing us about kindness to others, when the conversation had been about posters taking to task Mao or Yvonne using sketchy sources in trying to further fake news, be it trutherism, birthism, slander towards others in order to further an exclusionary, bigoted, UN-Christlike agenda…I would argue your defense of Mao and Yvonne’s actions says a lot about you. And for someone seemingly so educated (given your inclination to show off your byzantine knowledge of orthodox church allusions), your lack of critical thinking skills is somewhat surprising.

And no, I’m not in the ministry. I’m a proud mom, wife, service worker, and spiritual-humanist who is worried about our country’s future, and had decided to exercise what I see as almost a duty to call out b.s., particularly hypocrisy from those using untruths to support a bigoted agenda.

On the other hand, as I said initially, it's also pouring flames on this dumpster fire of a discussion, so you have that...

Posted on: 10/30 17:22

Edited by esp123 on 2018/10/30 17:38:16
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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Trying to dismiss me by calling me strange. Nice. I grant you that my tone describing my faith may seem arrogant to you, but my personal experience is what it is. I happen to think you are arrogant for assuming you are superior because you are somehow more normal.

But as for the gratuitous account I shared... really? No one cares? Is your longing to see the Church change with the times more important than sympathizing with victims? Thankfully I didn’t become one, but I found myself in a vulnerable position at the hands of an emotionally immature priest, and I am not alone.

I’ve come to appreciate the fact that it’s important to be charitable to others as each person is fighting a hard battle (Plato). Several posters ridiculed Mao and Yvonne and even suggest that they should just disappear. That’s dangerous talk in this world we live in. Hell is other people but it can be heaven if you make peace with them.


Posted on: 10/30 13:37
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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I don't know who you are or what you do for a living, but I'm ready to conclude that you're a strange human being with a modicum of intelligence but are off either emotionally or socially.

I am not sure of why you would randomly and gratuitously share your experience of sleeping in a rectory. No one cares, but . . . well . . . like i said it was gratuitous.

Nothing in ESP's comment suggested he was bitter about the Latin mass. However, your assertion that somehow a Latin Mass elevates your spirituality is inexplicable. While I was in the seminary, because of my academic performance I was invited to study New Testament Greek. Still, I don't waive that around to suggest I have a better command of the Gospels than other people.

It seems you're just posting for the sake of showing off your spirituality. That's neither charitable, Christian nor sincere.

Quote:

edgewordwise wrote:
Hmm why so bitter about the Latin Mass, esp? Between this and “woe to clergy” you somehow took offense to, it would seem to me you work in parish ministry. Most quiet Catholics are rather ambivalent about liturgy. FYI I attend vernacular Masses and still find inspiration, but the Latin Mass is like a magnet school for more studious Catholics, so makes for more stimulating churchy conversation if that is one’s preference. So what high horse are you talking about? I still believe what I was taught in CCD and only came to the Latin Mass later in life. I don’t think I am better than anyone else, but I like any Catholic confess that Jesus Christ is Lord and founded the Catholic Church upon St. Peter. That’s all in Vatican II documents.

I am curious what your vision of what the future of the Church should be. If it’s just going to be one with vague platitudes and attempting to forgive something that isn’t considered wrong to begin with, then it will lose its purpose and eventually become irrelevant, just another NGO as Pope Francis said.

Before I completely digress from the topic of this thread, I would admit that I slept overnight in a rectory living room when I was 12 because the priest friend of my family was scared to be alone that night. There was no contact as he was in his own room but I did get concerned looks from the church staff who saw me the next morning. Was driven nack home and it never happened again. So in retrospect I could have been a victim and could have had every reason to abandon my faith but choose to remain.

Posted on: 10/30 12:23
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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Hmm why so bitter about the Latin Mass, esp? Between this and “woe to clergy” you somehow took offense to, it would seem to me you work in parish ministry. Most quiet Catholics are rather ambivalent about liturgy. FYI I attend vernacular Masses and still find inspiration, but the Latin Mass is like a magnet school for more studious Catholics, so makes for more stimulating churchy conversation if that is one’s preference. So what high horse are you talking about? I still believe what I was taught in CCD and only came to the Latin Mass later in life. I don’t think I am better than anyone else, but I like any Catholic confess that Jesus Christ is Lord and founded the Catholic Church upon St. Peter. That’s all in Vatican II documents.

I am curious what your vision of what the future of the Church should be. If it’s just going to be one with vague platitudes and attempting to forgive something that isn’t considered wrong to begin with, then it will lose its purpose and eventually become irrelevant, just another NGO as Pope Francis said.

Before I completely digress from the topic of this thread, I would admit that I slept overnight in a rectory living room when I was 12 because the priest friend of my family was scared to be alone that night. There was no contact as he was in his own room but I did get concerned looks from the church staff who saw me the next morning. Was driven nack home and it never happened again. So in retrospect I could have been a victim and could have had every reason to abandon my faith but choose to remain.

Posted on: 10/29 23:52
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Re: Chicago Church, Father Paul and Jersey City
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Edgewordwise-
You’re amazed we’re picking on semantics and missing the gist? To the contrary, your gist is quite apparent.

The arrogance is evident in your presumption and certitude that the traditionalist Catholic practice is if not the best, indeed the one and only, path towards heaven; evident in your scolding (“Woe” to them, lol?) of more liberal bishops and brethren who don’t believe as you do; evident in your admonishments that their flock is headed to hell.

True to form, your latest post setting yourself apart because you apparently “know better”, reveals your presumption that you and your Traditional Latin Mass sect are somehow privy to the one and only path to salvation. To the rest of us, "Woe!"

Given your inclination for phrases, here’s another one: “Get off your high horse.” That phrase is figurative too.

Posted on: 10/29 17:12
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