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Re: Booker T. Washington - No Heat Plagues Tenants - RIDICULOUS!
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hero69 wrote:
hahaha. just i still think double decker trains would be awesome. as i pointed out, i would be feasible...instead of traisn with 7' ceilings, you could have 2 levels with 6' ceilings but with much lower carriages...do i think it's gonna happen? nO. do i think it's a good idea? yes.



I would work if we were all 4 ft tall.

Posted on: 1/10 19:33
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Re: Booker T. Washington - No Heat Plagues Tenants - RIDICULOUS!
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FWIW, a city income tax would be fine if our RE taxes were as low as NYC. $2m places are paying like $2k. And the biggest non-payer of tax in JC is the PA.

Posted on: 1/10 16:07
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Re: Booker T. Washington - No Heat Plagues Tenants - RIDICULOUS!
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hero69 wrote:
hahaha. just i still think double decker trains would be awesome. as i pointed out, i would be feasible...instead of traisn with 7' ceilings, you could have 2 levels with 6' ceilings but with much lower carriages...do i think it's gonna happen? nO. do i think it's a good idea? yes.

once before i suggested articulated trains and people said it was not such a good idea...well, ny's mta is actively considering Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
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JCGuys wrote:
A city income tax is literally the worst idea I've ever read on JCList. Even worse than the guy who wanted the Port Authority to run double-decker PATH trains to increase capacity...


Ha ha ha! I remember that thread. Hero69 kept insisting that a PATH double decker train was a possibility even after explaining the impossibility of the idea given the (unchangeable) size of the PATH tunnels that run under the Hudson.



I guess you still refuse to accept the physical limitations that can not be changed: the PATH tunnels have a 15 ft clearance! How would you fit the train undercarriage, plus the bottom and top hardware of the train shell and still be able to have people be able to stand up inside the train?? I know you think that double deckers are cool, and it would be AWESOME if we could have those here, but the current tunnels can not be expanded, so there is NO WAY to fit a double decker in the current Hudson tubes. PERIOD. Anyone that tells you otherwise is full of it.

Posted on: 1/10 15:34
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Re: Booker T. Washington - No Heat Plagues Tenants - RIDICULOUS!
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hero69 wrote:
hahaha. just i still think double decker trains would be awesome. as i pointed out, i would be feasible...instead of traisn with 7' ceilings, you could have 2 levels with 6' ceilings but with much lower carriages...do i think it's gonna happen? nO. do i think it's a good idea? yes.


LoL for being a good sport about it!!

Articulated trains are the way to go - another 10% increase in capacity or more plus safety benefits.




Posted on: 1/10 15:22
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Re: Booker T. Washington - No Heat Plagues Tenants - RIDICULOUS!
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hero69 wrote:
hahaha. just i still think double decker trains would be awesome. as i pointed out, i would be feasible...instead of traisn with 7' ceilings, you could have 2 levels with 6' ceilings but with much lower carriages...do i think it's gonna happen? nO. do i think it's a good idea? yes.


So basically, if you're about 5'10" - hair/hats/hoods included - you're good to go on FuturePath. Anyone else, you're SOL?

Posted on: 1/10 15:19
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Re: Booker T. Washington - No Heat Plagues Tenants - RIDICULOUS!
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yikes hero, u'd better start using spell/grammar check. lolQuote:

hero69 wrote:
hahaha. just i still think double decker trains would be awesome. as i pointed out, i would be feasible...instead of traisn with 7' ceilings, you could have 2 levels with 6' ceilings but with much lower carriages...do i think it's gonna happen? nO. do i think it's a good idea? yes.

once before i suggested articulated trains and people said it was not such a good idea...well, ny's mta is actively considering Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

JCGuys wrote:
A city income tax is literally the worst idea I've ever read on JCList. Even worse than the guy who wanted the Port Authority to run double-decker PATH trains to increase capacity...


Ha ha ha! I remember that thread. Hero69 kept insisting that a PATH double decker train was a possibility even after explaining the impossibility of the idea given the (unchangeable) size of the PATH tunnels that run under the Hudson.


Posted on: 1/10 14:57
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Re: Booker T. Washington - No Heat Plagues Tenants - RIDICULOUS!
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hahaha. just i still think double decker trains would be awesome. as i pointed out, i would be feasible...instead of traisn with 7' ceilings, you could have 2 levels with 6' ceilings but with much lower carriages...do i think it's gonna happen? nO. do i think it's a good idea? yes.

once before i suggested articulated trains and people said it was not such a good idea...well, ny's mta is actively considering Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

JCGuys wrote:
A city income tax is literally the worst idea I've ever read on JCList. Even worse than the guy who wanted the Port Authority to run double-decker PATH trains to increase capacity...


Ha ha ha! I remember that thread. Hero69 kept insisting that a PATH double decker train was a possibility even after explaining the impossibility of the idea given the (unchangeable) size of the PATH tunnels that run under the Hudson.


Posted on: 1/10 14:14
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Re: Booker T. Washington - No Heat Plagues Tenants - RIDICULOUS!
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Yvonne wrote:
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JCGuys wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
No one should live in JC and not contribute to government especially if you vote, so I believe in a city income tax instead of property tax.


HAHAHAHAHA - the last thing Jersey City needs is a city income tax, like NYC.

And renters do pay property taxes indirectly. Where do you think landlords get the funds to pay property taxes on their rental properties, as well as other expenses? NJ's tax code recognizes this and offers a tax break for renters for implied property taxes paid, based on a function of the amount of rent paid.

A city income tax is literally the worst idea I've ever read on JCList. Even worse than the guy who wanted the Port Authority to run double-decker PATH trains to increase capacity...


Look, the tenants did not make the deal with the city, the politicians did, but the fact remains public housing in Jersey City pays zero to the city. NYC has a fair policy, everyone pays either through city sales taxes or income tax. You do not believe in fairness.


Yvonne,

1) There is a difference between renters of a market rate unit, which indirectly pay property taxes through the rents they give their landlord, and public housing.

2) There are income limits to live in public housing. Chances are the residents are not going earning a bunch of income to tax. The introduction of a city income tax is not going to collect much funds from someone making minimum wage or nothing at all. It will hit higher-earning households the most.

3) Now you're talking about the introduction of a city sales tax. This just keeps getting better and better. Usually food and other basic supplies are tax exempt. The poorest of the poor living in public housing aren't likely going to have a large disposable income to spend in Jersey City for sales taxes to be collected. Again, it's going to hit mainly the middle class and above.

You've gotta be just trolling now since the introduction of a city income tax and city sales tax will likely result in YOU paying more taxes than the less fortunate residents of the city you're trying to punish.

What we ought to do is grow the revenue base by encouraging as many luxury condos that bring in PILOT or property tax revenue to the city but costs very little in city services. The 99 Hudson development now rising in the skyline is a godsend to Jersey City. Best part of all, they did not apply for a tax abatement. That's over half a billion in ratables that will help lower everyone's property taxes.

Posted on: 1/10 14:10
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Re: Booker T. Washington - No Heat Plagues Tenants - RIDICULOUS!
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JCGuys wrote:
A city income tax is literally the worst idea I've ever read on JCList. Even worse than the guy who wanted the Port Authority to run double-decker PATH trains to increase capacity...


Ha ha ha! I remember that thread. Hero69 kept insisting that a PATH double decker train was a possibility even after explaining the impossibility of the idea given the (unchangeable) size of the PATH tunnels that run under the Hudson.


Posted on: 1/10 13:23
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Re: Booker T. Washington - No Heat Plagues Tenants - RIDICULOUS!
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JCGuys wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
No one should live in JC and not contribute to government especially if you vote, so I believe in a city income tax instead of property tax.


HAHAHAHAHA - the last thing Jersey City needs is a city income tax, like NYC.

And renters do pay property taxes indirectly. Where do you think landlords get the funds to pay property taxes on their rental properties, as well as other expenses? NJ's tax code recognizes this and offers a tax break for renters for implied property taxes paid, based on a function of the amount of rent paid.

A city income tax is literally the worst idea I've ever read on JCList. Even worse than the guy who wanted the Port Authority to run double-decker PATH trains to increase capacity...


Look, the tenants did not make the deal with the city, the politicians did, but the fact remains public housing in Jersey City pays zero to the city. NYC has a fair policy, everyone pays either through city sales taxes or income tax. You do not believe in fairness.

Posted on: 1/10 12:21
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Re: Booker T. Washington - No Heat Plagues Tenants - RIDICULOUS!
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hero69 wrote:

concentrating all the poor in one area just breeds more poverty imo


Agreed! That's why I get so frustrated when I here housing advocates and city officials push for anything greater than 50/50 mix use. They're concentrating poverty, which breeds more of it.

There is an article on NJ.com yesterday about the mayor pushing Bayfront to have 50/50 mix of affordable and market rate units.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... e_housing_at_bayfron.html

Sounds good - but upper end of the development plans calls for 8,500 additional units. Is there really a developer out there that will undertake the construction of 4,250 affordable units? We'll soon see...

Posted on: 1/10 10:57
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Re: Booker T. Washington - No Heat Plagues Tenants - RIDICULOUS!
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JCGuys wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
No one should live in JC and not contribute to government especially if you vote, so I believe in a city income tax instead of property tax.


HAHAHAHAHA - the last thing Jersey City needs is a city income tax, like NYC.

And renters do pay property taxes indirectly. Where do you think landlords get the funds to pay property taxes on their rental properties, as well as other expenses? NJ's tax code recognizes this and offers a tax break for renters for implied property taxes paid, based on a function of the amount of rent paid.

A city income tax is literally the worst idea I've ever read on JCList. Even worse than the guy who wanted the Port Authority to run double-decker PATH trains to increase capacity...


Literally the worst idea I've ever read as well, and it could never happen anyway. The way the New Jersey law is written, localities in New Jersey have no right to impose their own taxes, other than property taxes. Atlantic City does have a special hotel tax and Newark airport has some kind of parking tax, but both required special state legislation and were a hassle to set up, plus a kickback from those taxes goes back to the state.

Posted on: 1/10 10:53
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Re: Booker T. Washington - No Heat Plagues Tenants - RIDICULOUS!
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Yvonne wrote:
No one should live in JC and not contribute to government especially if you vote, so I believe in a city income tax instead of property tax.


HAHAHAHAHA - the last thing Jersey City needs is a city income tax, like NYC.

And renters do pay property taxes indirectly. Where do you think landlords get the funds to pay property taxes on their rental properties, as well as other expenses? NJ's tax code recognizes this and offers a tax break for renters for implied property taxes paid, based on a function of the amount of rent paid.

A city income tax is literally the worst idea I've ever read on JCList. Even worse than the guy who wanted the Port Authority to run double-decker PATH trains to increase capacity...

Posted on: 1/10 10:48
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Re: Booker T. Washington - No Heat Plagues Tenants - RIDICULOUS!
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I absolutely agree they should be not attacked but some people here did complain about the online comments from the Jersey Journal. I just explained why people made those comments. By the way, the first comment I made concerned the commissioners. Why are they silent on this, public housing receives a lot of federal dollars including federal dollars to pay for off duty cops and we read the police scamming those dollars. The mayor should ask the commissioners about the heating problem and the off duty cop program, that is his job as the chief executive.

Posted on: 1/9 16:04
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Re: Booker T. Washington - No Heat Plagues Tenants - RIDICULOUS!
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Yvonne wrote:
No one should live in JC and not contribute to government especially if you vote, so I believe in a city income tax instead of property tax.


Is this some sort of thinly veiled jab at renters in general? Renters contribute to city coffers indirectly through their rent payments, which undoubtedly include a portion that is levied to cover the property taxes being paid by the landlord.

As for the public housing matter, this particular thread is about a very specific point: the residents there are going without heat. Please refrain (if you can) from polluting this thread with your nonsense. Even if you don't agree with public housing or the principles behind it in JC, those points (valid or not) do not belong in this thread. People should not be forced to endure freezing temperatures without heat in their homes. This is a clear violation of legal and moral codes.

Posted on: 1/9 15:22
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Re: Booker T. Washington - No Heat Plagues Tenants - RIDICULOUS!
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i think a good ultimate goal would be to tear down these and other housing projects, and give them vouchers/credits to live elsewhere...ideally, the value of these credits/vouchers would diminish over time and at some point reach market levels...seniors/disabled/mentally ill would be protected.

concentrating all the poor in one area just breeds more poverty imo

Posted on: 1/9 14:32
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Re: Booker T. Washington - No Heat Plagues Tenants - RIDICULOUS!
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I agree it is wrong to attack the tenants over where they live but public housing was started for returning war veterans after World War 2. It was also the time that rent control laws were written to help the returning veterans. Here is the problem, the Jersey Journal published 34 pages of names of Jersey City homeowners who cannot afford to pay their water and or taxes for calendar year 2017. I suspect there are people on that list who will go into tax lien complaining. In case you did not know, JC public housing unlike other public housing in other towns pays absolutely zero dollars to JC. It has an agreement to deduct its utilities before its in lieu of taxes are paid. Even the late Mayor Cunningham thought that was wrong and tried to get $100,000 from them but he died and the subject was dropped. No one should live in JC and not contribute to government especially if you vote, so I believe in a city income tax instead of property tax.

Posted on: 1/9 13:55
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Re: Booker T. Washington - No Heat Plagues Tenants - RIDICULOUS!
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caj11 wrote:
I couldn't post on the NJ.com website so I'm posting about this here:

A few comments in response to those people on NJ.com who regard the residents of this complex as freeloaders who pay little or nothing to live at Booker T Washington, and should supposedly work harder to change their situation and live somewhere better where the heat works -


First of all, many of these so-called freeloaders have children living there who have zero control over their economic status. Should the children living there suffer and freeze too?


Second of all, I'm sure many people who live there would live to live elsewhere with better living conditions. But even if you have a job, moving costs money and coming up with a security deposit and first month's rent at a new apartment is not that easy for some people, while they still have their belongings at their old apartment.


Third, regardless of what these residents pay or don't pay to live in the complex and what you think about that, if the heat goes out in the building long enough, the pipes will eventually freeze and burst. This will cost the city even more money to rectify. Is this what you want as a taxpayer?


The way this situation is being handled is just shortsighted at best, and in my opinion, inhumane and unacceptable. I have no problem with my tax dollars going for this (generally), but if the city can't even maintain an emergency phone line properly, there are some serious issues here that need to be handled, YESTERDAY, or else we will all pay even more, both monetarily and potentially in human lives.


Bravo, Caj. I was astounded by the tenor of the comments in the NJ.com article. The majority were chiding the residents and telling them to "get a job" or "suck it up." There are elderly, young children, single parent families, veterans, disabled, and victims of domestic abuse living at Booker T. To deny them the basic human comfort of heat in the freezing cold is a crime. And when it happens in a city like Jersey City, with all of its touted and marketed benefits of being so hip and in touch and protective of its residents, it really speaks to what the city's priorities are.

I hope this situation is rectified immediately - our taxes are paying for this ineptness - year after year.

Posted on: 1/8 12:46
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Re: Booker T. Washington - No Heat Plagues Tenants - RIDICULOUS!
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I couldn't post on the NJ.com website so I'm posting about this here:

A few comments in response to those people on NJ.com who regard the residents of this complex as freeloaders who pay little or nothing to live at Booker T Washington, and should supposedly work harder to change their situation and live somewhere better where the heat works -


First of all, many of these so-called freeloaders have children living there who have zero control over their economic status. Should the children living there suffer and freeze too?


Second of all, I'm sure many people who live there would live to live elsewhere with better living conditions. But even if you have a job, moving costs money and coming up with a security deposit and first month's rent at a new apartment is not that easy for some people, while they still have their belongings at their old apartment.


Third, regardless of what these residents pay or don't pay to live in the complex and what you think about that, if the heat goes out in the building long enough, the pipes will eventually freeze and burst. This will cost the city even more money to rectify. Is this what you want as a taxpayer?


The way this situation is being handled is just shortsighted at best, and in my opinion, inhumane and unacceptable. I have no problem with my tax dollars going for this (generally), but if the city can't even maintain an emergency phone line properly, there are some serious issues here that need to be handled, YESTERDAY, or else we will all pay even more, both monetarily and potentially in human lives.

Posted on: 1/8 12:14

Edited by caj11 on 2018/1/8 12:34:35
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Re: Booker T. Washington - No Heat Plagues Tenants - RIDICULOUS!
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The mayor appoints people on the Housing Authority Board, any comments from this board?

Posted on: 1/7 14:59
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Booker T. Washington - No Heat Plagues Tenants - RIDICULOUS!
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(Gotta say - for people to be suffering in cold like this with no tangible repairs and no one at the other end of a hotline designed to help them is pretty damn ridiculous. Not to mention the danger of using a stove to heat a residential unit.)

By Corey W. McDonald cmcdonald@jjournal.com
The Jersey Journal

JERSEY CITY -- With temperatures expected to stay largely below 20 degrees again today, some residents in the Booker T. Washington Housing complex are preparing for another frigid night.

A number of tenants in the city-run complex, who wish to remain anonymous, told The Jersey Journal heat often goes out in their apartments for hours.

Sometimes they spend the night without heat.

"I have to keep the oven on," said a 78-year-old woman who lives with her daughter and young granddaughter. "Sometimes it's like ice in here. It's pathetic."

One man walking outside bundled in a heavy winter coat said sometimes he is forced to wear his winter clothes indoors.

"I walk around the house like this!" he said.

The complex, between Fremont and Colden streets adjacent to Gateway Field and County Prep High School, is one of a number of housing complexes in the city operated by the Jersey City Housing Authority, an autonomous city agency.

Many of the residents interviewed have been living in the complex for years and have said this is an ongoing problem.


More

Posted on: 1/7 10:20
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