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Pebble

Re: PATH Riders Cry for Chivalry

#43

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I've seen a mixed bag of this. There are times when I see people being "rude". However, I've seen far more instances of situations when people are quite courteous.

I can recall of times I've shifted over for a couple to sit together, given up a seat for someone with a cane or given up my seat so that a parent can sit with their child(ren).

Posted on: 2014/8/19 20:15

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bodhipooh

Re: PATH Riders Cry for Chivalry

#42

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Quote:

Azul_the_Cat wrote:
Quote:

MikeyTBC wrote:
exactly. there are two types of service dogs, police k-9s and seeing eye dogs. end of story.

What about service cats?

I believe cats, and other non-canine animals, fall more within the umbrella term of ESA (Emotional Support Animal) as very few animals can actually perform tasks for an owner on a repeatable and reliable manner. In that sense, dogs are the de-facto species for service animals.

About my previous post, the point I was trying to drive home is that even a seeing eye dog that is considered a service dog is labeled as such arbitrarily, as there is no state or legal standard as to what constitute a service animal. This lack of standards has been abused into a proliferation of "certification" groups that will send you a certificate, and a vest, and some other tchotchkes, in exchange for a fee of one to two hundred dollars. That's why I say it is all a scam. The federal government, or state governments, will need to plug this hole at some point. My guess is that they are afraid to set a standard that will alienate people who consider themselves disabled or have "service animals" that actually perform a service.

Posted on: 2014/8/19 19:43

MikeyTBC

Re: PATH Riders Cry for Chivalry

#41

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Quote:

Azul_the_Cat wrote:
Quote:

MikeyTBC wrote:
exactly. there are two types of service dogs, police k-9s and seeing eye dogs. end of story.

What about service cats?

haha. sorry Azul, I dont beleive in such a thing. Not saying I'm right, just that I dont believe in them.

Posted on: 2014/8/19 19:13

I_heart_JC

Re: PATH Riders Cry for Chivalry

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When did children make it onto the list of priority seating? When I was a kid in the 70s, my dad made me offer my seat to any grownup, regardless of their age or physical stamina. Worked for me, I hated sitting still.

Now, I see people giving up their seats for kids. On the one hand: somebody actually gave up his seat! On the other hand: hell no.

Posted on: 2014/8/19 19:05

Azul_the_Cat

Re: PATH Riders Cry for Chivalry

#39

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Quote:

MikeyTBC wrote:
exactly. there are two types of service dogs, police k-9s and seeing eye dogs. end of story.

What about service cats?

Posted on: 2014/8/19 18:48

JCishome

Re: PATH Riders Cry for Chivalry

#38

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Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

JCishome wrote:
Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

JCishome wrote:
Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

JCishome wrote:
Maybe it's my age, but I still feel weird sitting on the train when ladies of any age are standing. Plus, it's kind of fun to watch a 23-year-old girl get all flustered when she's offered a seat. It's such a new experience for most of them that they don't know how to react.

Yup, that's your outdated social conditioning at work. It's fun to fluster young women? That's kinda creepy.. It's a new experience for them because there's no good reason that young women need to sit on a train.

Judging from the comments here, you're right; it's every man/woman for himself on public transportation. Thanks for clearing that up, and I'll turn up the volume on my headphones so everyone within 10 feet can hear it.

So, you tell me. Why would an able bodied, young women need to sit?

She doesn't NEED to sit; traditional etiquette is that a gentleman doesn't sit while a lady stands. I admit it may be an outdated construct, but I'll stick with what works for me. And, also, whatever; there are a lot bigger issues than this to worry about.

Traditional etitquette? So you're not doing something because it makes sense, you're doing it because other people used it to do it in the past? The logic there is not sound.. since we know there are lots of past traditions that would be unnecessary or even unsavory.

And how does it "work for you" if you are surprising women by doing this? Did it occur to you that they don't want your seat charity and might only take it in order to end an awkward situation?

I'm sorry that you feel awkward when someone offers you a simple courtesy. If they don't want the seat, they typically smile and say no thank you, and we both go about our business. The fact that this bothers you so much says to me that you're unaccustomed to acting in a civil way. I'm sure your mother would be very pleased.

Posted on: 2014/8/19 18:26

MikeyTBC

Re: PATH Riders Cry for Chivalry

#37

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Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

MikeyTBC wrote:
Quote:

fat-ass-bike wrote:
Maybe we need some better VERY LARGE etiquette signs displayed in the PATH - In your face signs that state - ARE YOU DISABLED OR PREGNANT to be sitting in these seats ?

Maybe the seat remains permanently upright and needs to be activated via a ticket - If not in use, it will create more standing space.

The image should be screen printed or embroidered into the seat and back rest - The only exemption would be for parents with small children

Put this sign up and you'll certainly get people that have the dogs with fake service vests trying to sit down.

All service vests are "fake". There is no such thing as an official service vest, or an "official" service dog designation. It's all one big scam, really.

As of today, there are no requirements for licensing, certification or identification of service dogs. And, the animals are not required to wear special collars, vests or harnesses. This is a huge, glaring hole in the ADA laws.

exactly. there are two types of service dogs, police k-9s and seeing eye dogs. end of story.

Posted on: 2014/8/19 17:26

jctexan

Re: PATH Riders Cry for Chivalry

#36

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When it becomes the norm that men wear high heels, I'll start offering my seat to them.

Posted on: 2014/8/19 17:13

WhoElseCouldIBe

Re: PATH Riders Cry for Chivalry

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Quote:

JCishome wrote:
Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

JCishome wrote:
Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

JCishome wrote:
Maybe it's my age, but I still feel weird sitting on the train when ladies of any age are standing. Plus, it's kind of fun to watch a 23-year-old girl get all flustered when she's offered a seat. It's such a new experience for most of them that they don't know how to react.

Yup, that's your outdated social conditioning at work. It's fun to fluster young women? That's kinda creepy.. It's a new experience for them because there's no good reason that young women need to sit on a train.

Judging from the comments here, you're right; it's every man/woman for himself on public transportation. Thanks for clearing that up, and I'll turn up the volume on my headphones so everyone within 10 feet can hear it.

So, you tell me. Why would an able bodied, young women need to sit?

She doesn't NEED to sit; traditional etiquette is that a gentleman doesn't sit while a lady stands. I admit it may be an outdated construct, but I'll stick with what works for me. And, also, whatever; there are a lot bigger issues than this to worry about.

Traditional etitquette? So you're not doing something because it makes sense, you're doing it because other people used it to do it in the past? The logic there is not sound.. since we know there are lots of past traditions that would be unnecessary or even unsavory.

And how does it "work for you" if you are surprising women by doing this? Did it occur to you that they don't want your seat charity and might only take it in order to end an awkward situation?

Posted on: 2014/8/19 16:51

bodhipooh

Re: PATH Riders Cry for Chivalry

#34

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Quote:

MikeyTBC wrote:
Quote:

fat-ass-bike wrote:
Maybe we need some better VERY LARGE etiquette signs displayed in the PATH - In your face signs that state - ARE YOU DISABLED OR PREGNANT to be sitting in these seats ?

Maybe the seat remains permanently upright and needs to be activated via a ticket - If not in use, it will create more standing space.

The image should be screen printed or embroidered into the seat and back rest - The only exemption would be for parents with small children

Put this sign up and you'll certainly get people that have the dogs with fake service vests trying to sit down.

All service vests are "fake". There is no such thing as an official service vest, or an "official" service dog designation. It's all one big scam, really.

As of today, there are no requirements for licensing, certification or identification of service dogs. And, the animals are not required to wear special collars, vests or harnesses. This is a huge, glaring hole in the ADA laws.

Posted on: 2014/8/19 16:36

JCishome

Re: PATH Riders Cry for Chivalry

#33

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Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

JCishome wrote:
Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

JCishome wrote:
Maybe it's my age, but I still feel weird sitting on the train when ladies of any age are standing. Plus, it's kind of fun to watch a 23-year-old girl get all flustered when she's offered a seat. It's such a new experience for most of them that they don't know how to react.

Yup, that's your outdated social conditioning at work. It's fun to fluster young women? That's kinda creepy.. It's a new experience for them because there's no good reason that young women need to sit on a train.

Judging from the comments here, you're right; it's every man/woman for himself on public transportation. Thanks for clearing that up, and I'll turn up the volume on my headphones so everyone within 10 feet can hear it.

So, you tell me. Why would an able bodied, young women need to sit?

She doesn't NEED to sit; traditional etiquette is that a gentleman doesn't sit while a lady stands. I admit it may be an outdated construct, but I'll stick with what works for me. And, also, whatever; there are a lot bigger issues than this to worry about.

Posted on: 2014/8/19 14:31

MikeyTBC

Re: PATH Riders Cry for Chivalry

#32

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Quote:

fat-ass-bike wrote:
Maybe we need some better VERY LARGE etiquette signs displayed in the PATH - In your face signs that state - ARE YOU DISABLED OR PREGNANT to be sitting in these seats ?

Maybe the seat remains permanently upright and needs to be activated via a ticket - If not in use, it will create more standing space.

The image should be screen printed or embroidered into the seat and back rest - The only exemption would be for parents with small children

Put this sign up and you'll certainly get people that have the dogs with fake service vests trying to sit down.

Posted on: 2014/8/19 14:04

WhoElseCouldIBe

Re: PATH Riders Cry for Chivalry

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Quote:

JCishome wrote:
Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

JCishome wrote:
Maybe it's my age, but I still feel weird sitting on the train when ladies of any age are standing. Plus, it's kind of fun to watch a 23-year-old girl get all flustered when she's offered a seat. It's such a new experience for most of them that they don't know how to react.

Yup, that's your outdated social conditioning at work. It's fun to fluster young women? That's kinda creepy.. It's a new experience for them because there's no good reason that young women need to sit on a train.

Judging from the comments here, you're right; it's every man/woman for himself on public transportation. Thanks for clearing that up, and I'll turn up the volume on my headphones so everyone within 10 feet can hear it.

So, you tell me. Why would an able bodied, young women need to sit?

Posted on: 2014/8/19 13:34

JCishome

Re: PATH Riders Cry for Chivalry

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Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

JCishome wrote:
Maybe it's my age, but I still feel weird sitting on the train when ladies of any age are standing. Plus, it's kind of fun to watch a 23-year-old girl get all flustered when she's offered a seat. It's such a new experience for most of them that they don't know how to react.

Yup, that's your outdated social conditioning at work. It's fun to fluster young women? That's kinda creepy.. It's a new experience for them because there's no good reason that young women need to sit on a train.

Judging from the comments here, you're right; it's every man/woman for himself on public transportation. Thanks for clearing that up, and I'll turn up the volume on my headphones so everyone within 10 feet can hear it.

Posted on: 2014/8/19 13:04

WhoElseCouldIBe

Re: PATH Riders Cry for Chivalry

#29

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Quote:

fat-ass-bike wrote:
Maybe we need some better VERY LARGE etiquette signs displayed in the PATH - In your face signs that state - ARE YOU DISABLED OR PREGNANT to be sitting in these seats ?

Maybe the seat remains permanently upright and needs to be activated via a ticket - If not in use, it will create more standing space.

The image should be screen printed or embroidered into the seat and back rest - The only exemption would be for parents with small children

Or people that want seats can just ask for them.

Posted on: 2014/8/19 2:28

fat-ass-bike

Re: PATH Riders Cry for Chivalry

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Maybe we need some better VERY LARGE etiquette signs displayed in the PATH - In your face signs that state - ARE YOU DISABLED OR PREGNANT to be sitting in these seats ?

Maybe the seat remains permanently upright and needs to be activated via a ticket - If not in use, it will create more standing space.

Resized Image

The image should be screen printed or embroidered into the seat and back rest - The only exemption would be for parents with small children

Posted on: 2014/8/19 1:05

My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.

WhoElseCouldIBe

Re: PATH Riders Cry for Chivalry

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Quote:

JCishome wrote:
Maybe it's my age, but I still feel weird sitting on the train when ladies of any age are standing. Plus, it's kind of fun to watch a 23-year-old girl get all flustered when she's offered a seat. It's such a new experience for most of them that they don't know how to react.

Yup, that's your outdated social conditioning at work. It's fun to fluster young women? That's kinda creepy.. It's a new experience for them because there's no good reason that young women need to sit on a train.

Posted on: 2014/8/19 0:47

Bubble_Tea

Re: PATH Riders Cry for Chivalry

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Re: "Baby on Board" stickers (See quote below)

What an awesome idea!!! Wear the sticker (or a button) if you are pregnant and want a seat. If you do, I guarantee you'll get a seat every time from guys who are otherwise terrified of making a mistake or just would prefer not to give up their seat to a non-pregnant person. And then if you don't wear the sticker, it's really hard to complain...

From the article:

Meanwhile, Freeman is also asking that stickers be passed out saying "Baby on Board" for pregnant women to wear, because sometimes it isn't obvious, especially in the winter when people are wearing coats, she said.

Posted on: 2014/8/18 19:39

Bubble_Tea

Re: PATH Riders Cry for Chivalry

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I twice offered my seat to a women who I thought were definitely pregnant and NOPE. Ouch! To avoid these circumstances, I think I'd just avoid taking a seat at all if I didn't have a really serious leg injury.

Posted on: 2014/8/18 19:28

Bubble_Tea

Re: PATH Riders Cry for Chivalry

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Posted on: 2014/8/18 19:28

On_The_3rd

Re: PATH Riders Cry for Chivalry

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Last Friday on the extremely rare occasion that I'm able to take a seat home from work, the woman sitting next to me stood up just after departing Christopher St and gave her seat to a pregnant woman. The first words out of her mother were "All these men pretending to be sleeping or reading couldn't have offered a woman in need a seat, pathetic." Hmm, f*ck me, I actually was reading, or maybe I was PRETENDING... and the guy across from me was asleep... or was he PRETENDING to be asleep? I definitely felt singled out, like now I'm an asshole for not standing up at every stop to scan the crowd for bulging bellies. It's all a big conspiracy, everybody with their heads down pretending away so we can go about with our selfish ways.

Posted on: 2014/8/18 17:25

JadedJC

Re: PATH Riders Cry for Chivalry

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Quote:

JCbiscuit wrote:
Quote:

JadedJC wrote:
Quote:

Vigilante wrote:
I don't like sitting on PATH but on the rare occasions that I do I will offer my seat to older people, pregnant ladies etc. I do feel a bit weird about offering my seat to women who maybe aren't really old. It's almost like they get offended like you're calling them old.

Age isn't the first thing that runs through my mind when this happens. It's "oh crap, this dude thinks I look pregnant."

I was coming home from a huge dinner one night, and rested my hand on my aching, too-full belly. dude immediately jumped up and offered me his seat.

is it bad that I took it?

No, when it happens to me, I say "thank you" and sit down. Why make someone feel bad for doing a good deed? If you make an issue of it, the next time the lady really could be pregnant but he could be second-guessing his judgment. Ianmac, as for people asking and being denied a seat, in all my years of PATH commuting, I've only witnessed one incident in which someone asked for a seat (described in my earlier post) and she wasn't denied. I daresay, people on the PATH are actually more courteous than on the subway. Most of the time, I DO see someone offering a seat to a pregnant lady or the elderly. The times it doesn't happen is when the train is so packed, the people who are sitting can't see.

I take the 34th St. crosstown bus from time to time because all my doctors are affiliated with NYU, and I think the passengers there are far more inconsiderate than on the PATH. Because of the hospital and doctors' offices around 1st Ave, you'll see a lot of elderly, infirm and pregnant people getting on the bus. I've seen people deliberately ignore the bus driver and other passengers asking them to give up their seats to an old person with a walker or a very pregnant woman. They'll literally stare straight ahead with a blank look.

Posted on: 2014/8/18 14:13

caj11

Re: PATH Riders Cry for Chivalry

#21

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Quote:

Vigilante wrote:
I don't like sitting on PATH but on the rare occasions that I do I will offer my seat to older people, pregnant ladies etc. I do feel a bit weird about offering my seat to women who maybe aren't really old. It's almost like they get offended like you're calling them old.

Women who are obviously pregnant never refuse when offer them my seat, but most other women (elderly included) say no when I offer. So then I feel weird about it and hope I haven't offended them by incorrectly guessing on their age range.

Posted on: 2014/8/18 14:12

JCbiscuit

Re: PATH Riders Cry for Chivalry

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Quote:

JadedJC wrote:
Quote:

Vigilante wrote:
I don't like sitting on PATH but on the rare occasions that I do I will offer my seat to older people, pregnant ladies etc. I do feel a bit weird about offering my seat to women who maybe aren't really old. It's almost like they get offended like you're calling them old.

Age isn't the first thing that runs through my mind when this happens. It's "oh crap, this dude thinks I look pregnant."

I was coming home from a huge dinner one night, and rested my hand on my aching, too-full belly. dude immediately jumped up and offered me his seat.

is it bad that I took it?

Posted on: 2014/8/18 13:46

ianmac47

Re: PATH Riders Cry for Chivalry

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A lot of people who are currently in their child bearing years are narcissists who think the world revolves around them. I suspect most of the time pregnant women are on the train, nobody has actually noticed that they are pregnant. I would be more interested in knowing how many people have asked for a seat and then been denied.

Posted on: 2014/8/18 13:43

JadedJC

Re: PATH Riders Cry for Chivalry

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Quote:

Vigilante wrote:
I don't like sitting on PATH but on the rare occasions that I do I will offer my seat to older people, pregnant ladies etc. I do feel a bit weird about offering my seat to women who maybe aren't really old. It's almost like they get offended like you're calling them old.

Age isn't the first thing that runs through my mind when this happens. It's "oh crap, this dude thinks I look pregnant."

Posted on: 2014/8/18 13:13

JCishome

Re: PATH Riders Cry for Chivalry

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Maybe it's my age, but I still feel weird sitting on the train when ladies of any age are standing. Plus, it's kind of fun to watch a 23-year-old girl get all flustered when she's offered a seat. It's such a new experience for most of them that they don't know how to react.

Posted on: 2014/8/18 12:56

Vigilante

Re: PATH Riders Cry for Chivalry

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I don't like sitting on PATH but on the rare occasions that I do I will offer my seat to older people, pregnant ladies etc. I do feel a bit weird about offering my seat to women who maybe aren't really old. It's almost like they get offended like you're calling them old.

Posted on: 2014/8/18 3:10

fat-ass-bike

Re: PATH Riders Cry for Chivalry

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Maybe the first three seats should remain upright position and can only be activated (dropped) by the bus driver for those that request it from the driver on boarding!

As for the trains, maybe a select few seats remain upright and can only be activated (seat drops) with a special pass that can be bought with proof of disability - These passes could be temporary or permanent, depending on the individuals situation.

I've been on a train when a person starting yelling for a guy to give up his seat in a disabled seating section. The guy raise his shirt and we all stared at a 10 inch scar running down his chest - You could hear a pin drop after that display !

Posted on: 2014/8/18 2:59

My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.

jcpedestrian

Re: PATH Riders Cry for Chivalry

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Quote:

HeightsBrat wrote:
Your comment is a sad commentary. My post just shows the lack of civility and compassion on the part of society at large. There are still those who display just plain old fashioned good manners but their numbers are dwindling.

Calm down Mother Teresa, I don't take the bus and had no idea.

Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Dude, on a bus, even a someone on a wheelchair needs to be secured, so they are not tossed around. To that end, there are areas within the bus that are specially equipped to secure a wheelchair in place. Those areas have seats that get lifted to gain access to the special mechanism. If someone is sitting there, they are required to get up and give up their previously held seats. Some people just LOVE to play dumb and try not to move or get up.

thank you, it was an honest question from a non-bus rider

Posted on: 2014/8/18 2:41

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