dtjcview wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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dtjcview wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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That's not a very nice way to talk about your mother...

My mother died January of this year. Care to keep digging?

Do I really need to refine my juvenile response to your juvenile statement?

No. But you need to keep your sociopath comments in check, and stop making things unnecessarily personal.

devilsadvocate wrote:
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dtjcview wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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That's not a very nice way to talk about your mother...

My mother died January of this year. Care to keep digging?

Do I really need to refine my juvenile response to your juvenile statement?

dtjcview wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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That's not a very nice way to talk about your mother...

My mother died January of this year. Care to keep digging?

devilsadvocate wrote:
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That's not a very nice way to talk about your mother...

dtjcview wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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dtjcview wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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dtjcview wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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When the US had the "good old days" of the late 50s and 60s, China had mass famine. So when you look at China today, understand that they only recently became a modern nation. That change was driven by concrete steps to curb reproduction and instill personal responsibility. The results are phenomenal.
...

More comedy gold. China's economic prosperity was built on a mountain of used condoms? Lmao. And there was I thinking it wasn't the policies of Chairman Mao, but the rejection of his cultural revolution and unleashing the capitalistic instincts of a population of 1.3 billion people.

Anything that passing out condoms doesn't solve?

- Economic growth and prosperity - condoms
- Crime rate - condoms
- World hunger - condoms
- Aids crisis - condoms

Think you need to work on cause and effect a bit, and stop thinking with other peoples penises.

Global shortages of latex.

...and brain tissue in lawyers.

You asked a stupid question, I gave you a stupid answer.

Yep. Like every lawyer, you're good on stupid.

devilsadvocate wrote:
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dtjcview wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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dtjcview wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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When the US had the "good old days" of the late 50s and 60s, China had mass famine. So when you look at China today, understand that they only recently became a modern nation. That change was driven by concrete steps to curb reproduction and instill personal responsibility. The results are phenomenal.
...

More comedy gold. China's economic prosperity was built on a mountain of used condoms? Lmao. And there was I thinking it wasn't the policies of Chairman Mao, but the rejection of his cultural revolution and unleashing the capitalistic instincts of a population of 1.3 billion people.

Anything that passing out condoms doesn't solve?

- Economic growth and prosperity - condoms
- Crime rate - condoms
- World hunger - condoms
- Aids crisis - condoms

Think you need to work on cause and effect a bit, and stop thinking with other peoples penises.

Global shortages of latex.

...and brain tissue in lawyers.

You asked a stupid question, I gave you a stupid answer.

dtjcview wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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dtjcview wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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When the US had the "good old days" of the late 50s and 60s, China had mass famine. So when you look at China today, understand that they only recently became a modern nation. That change was driven by concrete steps to curb reproduction and instill personal responsibility. The results are phenomenal.
...

More comedy gold. China's economic prosperity was built on a mountain of used condoms? Lmao. And there was I thinking it wasn't the policies of Chairman Mao, but the rejection of his cultural revolution and unleashing the capitalistic instincts of a population of 1.3 billion people.

Anything that passing out condoms doesn't solve?

- Economic growth and prosperity - condoms
- Crime rate - condoms
- World hunger - condoms
- Aids crisis - condoms

Think you need to work on cause and effect a bit, and stop thinking with other peoples penises.

Global shortages of latex.

...and brain tissue in lawyers.

Pebble wrote:
I always find it amusing when people post on China and clearly have no concept of what the land there is like. Despite their single child policy, guess what you'll find in the poverty areas outside of the city... parents having more and more children!

The reality isn't about black or white or hispanic or values... it's a problem of poverty. Statistics after statistics prove out that a rise out of poverty reduces the birth rate in families. Heck, the movie Idiocracy was based on this concept alone.

I'm also confused about the concept of good role models. How many people loved Roger Clemens or Barry Bonds? You don't need trend setters, you need education.

Yes, there is a certain amount of personal responsibility involved. There is a certain amount involved with everyone but how does that get taught? You weren?t born and subsequently sent searching for food and nourishment. The knowledge you have now is knowledge you gained from those around you.

Uneducated and poor parents do not make good decisions. They don?t understand what a good and healthy diet is and how it helps enable brain development. They also don?t understand how to explain to their child the path from where they are presently to being able to afford a brownstone downtown.

A lot of these individuals don?t see how it is obtainable because they believe, partly rightly, that many of those people in the wonderful high rise towers were born into it. I?m not saying everyone inherited their wealth. I?m stating that they were able to start with a more stable footing.

Regardless, the ?reporter? decided to opinionate something absurd while presenting a news story. Instead of viewing the problem for what it is, a poverty issue, he tried to make it a race issue.

I think there also needs to be an understanding that the world does not exist in a vacuum. There are a lot of causations involved that go back in time to periods of American and international history which we aren?t very comfortable with. It can?t be changed, but it should at least be acknowledged when topics involving race and disproportionate poverty levels are mentioned.

devilsadvocate wrote:
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dtjcview wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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When the US had the "good old days" of the late 50s and 60s, China had mass famine. So when you look at China today, understand that they only recently became a modern nation. That change was driven by concrete steps to curb reproduction and instill personal responsibility. The results are phenomenal.
...

More comedy gold. China's economic prosperity was built on a mountain of used condoms? Lmao. And there was I thinking it wasn't the policies of Chairman Mao, but the rejection of his cultural revolution and unleashing the capitalistic instincts of a population of 1.3 billion people.

Anything that passing out condoms doesn't solve?

- Economic growth and prosperity - condoms
- Crime rate - condoms
- World hunger - condoms
- Aids crisis - condoms

Think you need to work on cause and effect a bit, and stop thinking with other peoples penises.

Global shortages of latex.

dtjcview wrote:
Quote:

devilsadvocate wrote:
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When the US had the "good old days" of the late 50s and 60s, China had mass famine. So when you look at China today, understand that they only recently became a modern nation. That change was driven by concrete steps to curb reproduction and instill personal responsibility. The results are phenomenal.
...

More comedy gold. China's economic prosperity was built on a mountain of used condoms? Lmao. And there was I thinking it wasn't the policies of Chairman Mao, but the rejection of his cultural revolution and unleashing the capitalistic instincts of a population of 1.3 billion people.

Anything that passing out condoms doesn't solve?

- Economic growth and prosperity - condoms
- Crime rate - condoms
- World hunger - condoms
- Aids crisis - condoms

Think you need to work on cause and effect a bit, and stop thinking with other peoples penises.

VanVorster wrote:
Elitist perhaps and most likely racist or at least you definitely know how to come off like one given your posts. Perhaps it's your communication style, watching lots of Fox or just not knowing how to use your words. Oh and that's cute, merely mentioning sexism or racism is inherently anti-male and anti-white, respectively, which means don't raise it.

This is worth viewing for those interested.

http://www.motherjones.com/mixed-medi ... tem-sesame-street-puppets

JCMan8 wrote:
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If large numbers of white people (or a sizeable %) acted out what they heard in music then you'd have a point.
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dtjcview wrote:

And yes, Obama did that too to win support for his election - so I'm not ignoring the point.

dtjcview wrote:
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Pebble wrote:
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Heck, the movie Idiocracy was based on this concept alone.
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+1 Pebble - loved that movie.

Pop quiz for those folks that seem to equate culture with music. Name the artists:

"Bang, bang, Maxwell's silver hammer, Made sure that she was dead"
"It?s down to me, the way she talks when she?s spoken to?the way she does just what she?s told."
"We don't need no education , We don't need no thought control"
"Beat on the brat with a baseball bat"
"I wanna destroy passersby"
"if it wasn't for date rape I'd never get laid"
"But I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die"
"Ain't it dark? Wrapped up in that tarp, Earl"
"You'd better run, better run, faster than my bullet"

This represent white culture?

dtjcview wrote:
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Pebble wrote:
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Heck, the movie Idiocracy was based on this concept alone.
...

+1 Pebble - loved that movie.

Pop quiz for those folks that seem to equate culture with music. Name the artists:

"Bang, bang, Maxwell's silver hammer, Made sure that she was dead"
"It?s down to me, the way she talks when she?s spoken to?the way she does just what she?s told."
"We don't need no education , We don't need no thought control"
"Beat on the brat with a baseball bat"
"I wanna destroy passersby"
"if it wasn't for date rape I'd never get laid"
"But I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die"
"Ain't it dark? Wrapped up in that tarp, Earl"
"You'd better run, better run, faster than my bullet"

This represent white culture?

Pebble wrote:
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Heck, the movie Idiocracy was based on this concept alone.
...

devilsadvocate wrote:
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When the US had the "good old days" of the late 50s and 60s, China had mass famine. So when you look at China today, understand that they only recently became a modern nation. That change was driven by concrete steps to curb reproduction and instill personal responsibility. The results are phenomenal.
...

VanVorster wrote:
calling trailer park people trash and some Asians ghetto rats is quite telling of the kind of person you are. Not that I didn't know it already.

dtjcview wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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So imagine if in the black community the following thing happened:
1. The only people that had kids were married and middle class or above.
2. The only people that had more than 1 kid were in the top 1/3 of income for their city.
3. Personal responsibility was taught feverishly.

In other words, what if blacks suddenly adopted Asian culture? Now advance 40 years. What does the black community look like?

Forget the black community for a sec. Apply that across the board. You want to turn the US into China? Try enforcing that kind of change in the US - there'd be blood in the streets. And honestly, that's not the problem we're trying to solve - just an inferred and debatable factor in it.

@ VanVorster - good links. Worth the read.

VanVorster wrote:
Dude, do you even think before you write? "Blacks just adopt Asian culture" as though that's a panacea for everything. Do you even know black people besides what you see on television or read in newspapers? Blacks are not a monolithic group and Asian culture is not one-dimensional with all purported tiger moms. Also, are you sharing your admonishments and exhortations for white people in trailer parks, middle america Ohio, Kearny and the ailing suburbs. I mean it sounds like you figured out the problem for the rest of us in looking at the answer key, good job!


http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/ ... inese-20140123-story.html

http://www.asian-nation.org/model-minority.shtml

devilsadvocate wrote:
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So imagine if in the black community the following thing happened:
1. The only people that had kids were married and middle class or above.
2. The only people that had more than 1 kid were in the top 1/3 of income for their city.
3. Personal responsibility was taught feverishly.

In other words, what if blacks suddenly adopted Asian culture? Now advance 40 years. What does the black community look like?

dtjcview wrote:
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JCMan8 wrote:
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Do you mind clarifying this post? Are you seriously claiming that family planning and personal responsibility are NOT significant ingredients in this mix? I suspected as much, considering you never addressed either even in passing. But please confirm this is your point of view.

No. I was arguing the point that it wasn't the only factor, and that some of the solutions on the table were overly-simplistic. Looking at a single statistic doesn't identify root cause. It's not simply about changing a perceived culture of irresponsibility - and what looks irresponsible in terms of a single-parent statistic, might be perfectly rational and responsible when viewed in the broader social framework. The link I referenced expresses it well:

http://www.urban.org/UploadedPDF/4128 ... ihan-Report-Revisited.pdf
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Moynihan argued that reversing the decay of the traditional two-married-parent family was the key to improving blacks? prospects. In the intervening years, however, more children of all races and ethnicities have been raised in one-parent families and cohabiting unmarried-parent families. Even 50 years ago, black poverty and social inequity was not simply a result of single parenting. Today?s more complex social milieu requires a much broader strategy and set of initiatives to address the multitude of factors impeding black economic and social progress.

Untangling the web of obstacles that ensnares black families and undermines social equity requires efforts on three fronts: (1) reducing the structural barriers to black economic progress, (2) enhancing the incentives for working in the mainstream economy, and (3) improving family dynamics. Progress on these fronts can involve federal, state, local, and even individual policies and practices.

JCMan8 wrote:
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Do you mind clarifying this post? Are you seriously claiming that family planning and personal responsibility are NOT significant ingredients in this mix? I suspected as much, considering you never addressed either even in passing. But please confirm this is your point of view.

Moynihan argued that reversing the decay of the traditional two-married-parent family was the key to improving blacks? prospects. In the intervening years, however, more children of all races and ethnicities have been raised in one-parent families and cohabiting unmarried-parent families. Even 50 years ago, black poverty and social inequity was not simply a result of single parenting. Today?s more complex social milieu requires a much broader strategy and set of initiatives to address the multitude of factors impeding black economic and social progress.

Untangling the web of obstacles that ensnares black families and undermines social equity requires efforts on three fronts: (1) reducing the structural barriers to black economic progress, (2) enhancing the incentives for working in the mainstream economy, and (3) improving family dynamics. Progress on these fronts can involve federal, state, local, and even individual policies and practices.

dtjcview wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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dtjcview wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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Also, small note about human nature. If someone isn't allowed to fully participate in a conversation and feels like they're being lectured to they just leave.
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That cuts both ways - when a proposed solution seems to involve replacing leaders that aren't lecturing the community on family planning and personal responsibility in the "right" way.

No doubt. But how do we avoid discussing family planning and personal responsibility when these two things are probably the most undeniable and significant ingredients that are missing in this situation?

SO...how does that square with your proposal to "kick out the PC police"? Who are they? Aren't they just people that disagree with a point of view?