JCMan8 wrote:
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Pebble wrote:
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JCMan8 wrote:
Pebble, please take two seconds to learn how tenure works before commenting. At the very least try glancing at the article before offering a laughably uninformed opinion.

"The lawsuit contended that bad teachers are so heavily protected by tenure laws that they are almost impossible to fire."

This is what the judge agreed with after being presented with the evidence.

"Los Angeles School Superintendent John Deasy testified that it can take over two years on average ? and sometimes as long as 10 ? to fire an incompetent tenured teacher. The cost of doing so, he said, can run from $250,000 to $450,000."

In striking down several laws regarding tenure, seniority and other protections, the judge said the evidence at the trial showed the harm inflicted on students by incompetent teachers.

"The evidence is compelling," he said. "Indeed, it shocks the conscience."

"A laughably uninformed opinion"... is not a statement based in any way on facts.

I know enough teachers and know how tenure works. There will always be bad hires that end up through the cracks. However, the overall system protects the good teachers from wrongful termination.

Having seen it firsthand protect someone from what was utterly disgusting, I can't fathom getting rid of the protection. Then again, I'm not someone that argues they make a lot of money or have easy jobs.

You may think you know how tenure works because you "know enough teachers" but your statements indicate you have no clue.

The facts were just quoted. Right there in the quote, go look. They were presented to the judge, including testimony from the LA Superintendent on this exact issue. Forgive me if I trust his word over an anonymous Internet commenter with no experience in the field.

As the saying goes, you are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts. Luckily California reviewed the facts and came to the right conclusion. Hopefully New Jersey is next.

Monroe wrote:
The statistic of tenured teachers being fired for poor performance (at least in NJ) is amazingly low. I don't have the number at hand, but as I recall it's less than 10/year.

I'd like to see rolling contracts, maybe 3-5 years at a shot, so they can have a chance to improve if put on warning.

Pebble wrote:
Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
Pebble, please take two seconds to learn how tenure works before commenting. At the very least try glancing at the article before offering a laughably uninformed opinion.

"The lawsuit contended that bad teachers are so heavily protected by tenure laws that they are almost impossible to fire."

This is what the judge agreed with after being presented with the evidence.

"Los Angeles School Superintendent John Deasy testified that it can take over two years on average ? and sometimes as long as 10 ? to fire an incompetent tenured teacher. The cost of doing so, he said, can run from $250,000 to $450,000."

In striking down several laws regarding tenure, seniority and other protections, the judge said the evidence at the trial showed the harm inflicted on students by incompetent teachers.

"The evidence is compelling," he said. "Indeed, it shocks the conscience."

"A laughably uninformed opinion"... is not a statement based in any way on facts.

I know enough teachers and know how tenure works. There will always be bad hires that end up through the cracks. However, the overall system protects the good teachers from wrongful termination.

Having seen it firsthand protect someone from what was utterly disgusting, I can't fathom getting rid of the protection. Then again, I'm not someone that argues they make a lot of money or have easy jobs.

JCMan8 wrote:
Pebble, please take two seconds to learn how tenure works before commenting. At the very least try glancing at the article before offering a laughably uninformed opinion.

"The lawsuit contended that bad teachers are so heavily protected by tenure laws that they are almost impossible to fire."

This is what the judge agreed with after being presented with the evidence.

"Los Angeles School Superintendent John Deasy testified that it can take over two years on average ? and sometimes as long as 10 ? to fire an incompetent tenured teacher. The cost of doing so, he said, can run from $250,000 to $450,000."

In striking down several laws regarding tenure, seniority and other protections, the judge said the evidence at the trial showed the harm inflicted on students by incompetent teachers.

"The evidence is compelling," he said. "Indeed, it shocks the conscience."

brewster wrote:
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Pebble wrote:
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JCMan8 wrote:
Thank God. New Jersey, you're next!

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/ca ... her-job-security-24070436

Why are you thankful for this? Do you think that nobody should have any job security or that the education of our future should be left up to those making the least money.

Some things are just beyond stupid.

Where's your argument as to why teachers, out of all the many jobs in our economy, should be unfireable? Everybody else I know is accountable for the job they do. And at least around here, they make plenty of money for the hours and vacations they get. Sure, there are places in the crappy parts of the USA where they get $40k, but that doesn't account the whining around here. I know plenty of professionals with masters and 25 years experience that don't come closer to a NJ PS teacher with that seniority, and nowhere near the bennies.

JCMan8 wrote:
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Pebble wrote:
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JCMan8 wrote:
Thank God. New Jersey, you're next!

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/ca ... her-job-security-24070436

Why are you thankful for this? Do you think that nobody should have any job security or that the education of our future should be left up to those making the least money.

Some things are just beyond stupid.

Oh Pebble, I figured you'd chime in with typical partisan demagoguery with no basis in logic or common sense.

Nobody said teachers shouldn't have any job security. But the current system of tenure which provides ABSOLUTE job security is unconstitutional. In fact, had you bothered to inform yourself, you'd see that in California (like here), it is next to impossible to remove terrible tenured teachers. Which hurts our students.

So much that California found that the tenure system is unconstitutional because it violates the students' constitutional rights of an equal opportunity to receive a decent education.

Teachers can be like the rest of us and get job security based on their ability to do their job. Not become essential monarchs that cannot be deposed.

Pebble wrote:
Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
Thank God. New Jersey, you're next!

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/ca ... her-job-security-24070436

Why are you thankful for this? Do you think that nobody should have any job security or that the education of our future should be left up to those making the least money.

Some things are just beyond stupid.

Pebble wrote:
Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
Thank God. New Jersey, you're next!

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/ca ... her-job-security-24070436

Why are you thankful for this? Do you think that nobody should have any job security or that the education of our future should be left up to those making the least money.

Some things are just beyond stupid.

JCMan8 wrote:
Thank God. New Jersey, you're next!

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/ca ... her-job-security-24070436