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Re: Open JC opening up Jersey City
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Home away from home
 
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You're right, there are no lieutenants, but there are dozens of guys listed as "firefighter" with 100k+ salaries. Captains earn more, as of course they would. It's clearly a date-of-hire thing - the ones hired pre-2008 must be on a different scale. I may try to dig up the bargaining agreement.
Posted on: 2014/5/8 20:51
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Re: Open JC opening up Jersey City
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Home away from home
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I'm not positive but I remember that they eliminated some ranks within the department. In other words there are no more Lieutenants. A FF jumps immediately to Captain when he is promoted which equals a huge salary jump.
Posted on: 2014/5/8 20:37
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Re: Open JC opening up Jersey City
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Home away from home
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Firefighters hired before 2008 are all earning in excess of $100k. Those hired after that all earn $61,000 or less. Did the pay scale get tightened up that much, or is there some huge jump in pay after x years of service? And who thought it was okay to pay firefighters $102,000 a year in base salary??
Posted on: 2014/5/8 20:18
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Re: Open JC opening up Jersey City
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Home away from home
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There seems to be a ton of low level "patronage" jobs in the Rec. Dept. I knew one guy in my neighborhood who was given a job just for collecting signatures for a local pol a few years ago.
Posted on: 2014/5/8 19:17
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Re: Open JC opening up Jersey City
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Home away from home
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The more light shone upon public employee information the better for the people paying the bills (ie, the taxpayers).
Which is why public sector unions have fought this for so long. http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/S ... 4431104579548031504200354
Posted on: 2014/5/8 18:53
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Re: Open JC opening up Jersey City
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Just can't stay away
 
Joined:
2013/5/19 15:36 Last Login : 2023/6/20 18:54 From Paulus Hook
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Yes we are saying the same thing. Obviously salary is salary and benefits are in addition to the salary. In my first post I was simply saying that the cost to the city for each employee is likely far higher than what the data set showed.
Posted on: 2014/5/8 18:49
Edited by Maise on 2014/5/8 19:14:04
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Re: Open JC opening up Jersey City
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Home away from home
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I agree with everything you said, except that wasn't at all what you said in your original post! In your response you are arguing against your own original post. The conversation about total cost of an employee is, of course, much more complex than the salary paid to an employee. But, in your first post, you asked/wondered about "take home" pay, and your take home pay is your salary (plus OT and bonuses). The total cost to your employer is your salary, OT, bonuses, labor taxes, medical/dental benefits, pensions and 401K matching, etc. But, those do NOT at all factor into your take home pay.
Posted on: 2014/5/8 17:51
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Re: Open JC opening up Jersey City
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Home away from home
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Good god there are some fire fighters making a crap ton of money.
Posted on: 2014/5/8 17:42
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Re: Open JC opening up Jersey City
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Just can't stay away
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2013/5/19 15:36 Last Login : 2023/6/20 18:54 From Paulus Hook
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You absolutely cannot just look at salary without taking the benefits into effect, especially when those benefits include a generation pension at a relatively early retirement age. 401k Matching, bonuses, Pensions, above market medical coverage are definitely considered part of your compensation - you can't just look at the take-home pay in a vacuum. I was saying that the data included in this data set doesn't tell the whole story.
Posted on: 2014/5/8 16:57
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Re: Open JC opening up Jersey City
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Home away from home
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How so? Salary is what you get paid for a given job. When someone asks "how much do you get paid" I am sure you don't say "Well, I get paid 80 thousand, and my employer spends another 20 thousand in labor taxes, medical insurance coverage, 401K matching, etc. You get paid 80 thousand. Any additional costs borne by the employer are not at all "take home" pay. Now, if what you were trying to say is that the real cost of these employees may not be accurately reflected because it doesn't include OT and bonuses, then that's a different point. And, I think the answer is that the salaries listed only reflects the BASE SALARY. Overtime and bonuses are impossible to calculate accurately until doled out. I would say that, based on anecdotal evidence, the OT overage for the JCPD is high. As for bonuses, I am not sure if/how the city pays them out.
Posted on: 2014/5/8 16:44
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Re: Open JC opening up Jersey City
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Home away from home
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How could anyone argue that salaries ARE NOT part of the problem?? Salaries is the root source of the issue for many of the fiscal problems for cities/counties/states. Pensions are based on salaries, and that's a big part of the issue now.
Any conversation about how to address the fiscal problems of JC has to include staffing levels, salaries, etc.
Posted on: 2014/5/8 16:38
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Re: Open JC opening up Jersey City
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Home away from home
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This is a great job, but it is not the salary that is a problem it is the debt. It has balloon in the last 25 years.
Posted on: 2014/5/8 15:23
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Re: Open JC opening up Jersey City
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Home away from home
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If we didn't have any crime or traffic problems or fires, we would be saving a lot more money.
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Posted on: 2014/5/8 15:12
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Re: Open JC opening up Jersey City
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Home away from home
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If this is correct and we have 1,132 employees in the PD for our 245k population we would be right around 10th in the country at police per capita. Both Newark and NYC would be ahead of us.
Of course I used updated numbers for JC and lagging numbers for other municipalities Link
Posted on: 2014/5/8 14:27
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Re: Open JC opening up Jersey City
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Home away from home
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A quick pivot in excel shows that Police & Fire make up 78% of the salaries. I have no idea is this is a normal percentage or not, but it seems high.
46.7% Police 31.3% Fire 5.9% Business Admin 4.0% Public Works 2.9% Recreation 2.6% Housing/Economic Development/Planning 2.5% Health and Human Services 1.5% Law .7% Clrk/Council .6% Mayor's office .5% Tax .4% Grants .4% CDBG (whatever that is, city buildings?) I guess teachers and education are on the state's dime?
Posted on: 2014/5/8 14:17
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Re: Open JC opening up Jersey City
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Just can't stay away
Joined:
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Does the salary listed in the data set include benefits / overtime? If not, then I would imagine the fire and police total take home is even more astounding than it would seem on first glance.
Posted on: 2014/5/8 14:05
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Re: Open JC opening up Jersey City
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Home away from home
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Wow. Great job in putting together all the data. Looking at the public salaries, it is VERY eye opening. Yikes. Lots of JCPD and JCFD pull down an astounding amount of money. You are guaranteed to catch a lot of flak for shining some light on this data.
Posted on: 2014/5/8 13:20
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Open JC opening up Jersey City
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Home away from home
Joined:
2004/2/6 23:13 Last Login : 2021/7/30 1:08 From Jersey City
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Open JC has opened up Jersey City, is Jersey City ready for this level of transparency?
https://data.openjerseycity.org/datase ... sey-city-public-employees
Posted on: 2014/5/8 3:20
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