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Ah, the heart of contractor darkness. You get a guy in to price the job who seems bright and knowledgeable, then on build day in comes Moe, Larry and Curly, or their just off the boat equivalent. A common contractor M.O. is to just take all the work that they can and then hire whoever they can get to do it. There have been several occasions I've had to show them how to do their jobs. The horror.

I don't know how the avoid this other than to not hire a contractor who comes in wearing nice loafers like Vincent Gardenia's plumber in Moonstruck.

No, we're taking the whole 12x12 sheet and laying down whole. No fancy patterns.

I'm starting to think we got the rookie workers -- they laid the tiles on the 1st day, and then for the following 3 days, another guy has been here, doing the wall, and then chipping off the extra thinset that came up between (and over) the tile pieces.


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Perhaps Srhia is making a custom pattern and not laying them in sheets?

We did a custom pattern of mixed tile sizes in our shower and you can feel imperfections with your bare feet where it is not perfectly level, but not major dips where whole sections are out of whack.

Robin.

Yes, it appears that individual pieces (or a couple) are somehow lower than the surrounding pieces - and yes, relatively shallow, but nonetheless I can feel it (like a mini crater?). I used a mini 3" level and found those areas. And when I run my hand through the surface, I can definitely feel shallow "ripples" as I run my hand over the surface.

It looked like we got rookie "workers" that laid down those tiles...

So it sounds like this may not be as bad as a think: if you're right brewster, the contractor can just pull out those pieces and reset. Fingers crossed! We're getting so close to completion - I can't wait!

I'm confused. That's about the size of one of your tiles. you meant 1 inch not 1 foot right? How much lower in inches are we talking? 1/16, 1/8? Are there low individual tiles or is there an area where several tiles come together in a dip? Frankly, I don't know what to make of this, the tiles come on a mesh mat and you flop it down. Unless they didn't get the thinset evenly spread using the notched trowel, it should go down pretty even. If it's not been grouted, it's easy to pull them up and reset them with a little more thinset behind them.

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Just to further clarify: the problem is that there are pockets of low elevation (right term?) - there are at least 6+ areas in the shower floor, each about 1" in diameter that's lower that surrounding areas.

So is this a big deal? Should I demand my contractor re-do it? Or let it go?

I'm just not sure how serious it is - I mean, it sounds serious, but is it really? Or am I just being a perfectionist, and such small "variances" are expected?

I don't want to start arguing or yelling at my contractor if this is common / not a big negative impact.

Thanks for any advice - again, our first time doing a shower, so newbie here... Much appreciate all your help and patience!!!

The cement on top of the membrane should have been pitched towards the drain, the whole thing should be like a very shallow funnel. The pitch should be 1/4" per ft. So, for example if the drain is centered 18" from outside walls, if you hold a level on floor at the edge it should be 3/8" above the drain. IF you don't have a 24" level, get one and see what the pitching is. If it's bad, INSIST on it being redone. Pooling water in a shower is not to be tolerated, you'll end up with mildew under the tiles.

FYI, there's actually supposed to be a layer of pitched cement under the barrier sheet in addition to above. It's a rather complicated system where water that seeps through the tile and cement is directed to the drain by the pitch of the barrier to weep holes into the drain.


There's a new simpler system called Kerdy that basically lines the entire shower under the tile with a plastic barrier, but contractors have been very slow around here to adopt it. Likely because the membrane costs like $1.40/sq ft, but it's much less failure prone.

Ask them if they'll rip it out. It's easier to rip it now without the grout down. You can compromise and throw a little extra money at them if they protest just to get it done properly--but if they didn't do it right the first time, what would be different the second. I used a rubber "float" to press down with all my body weight each area of the tile. You can't press these tiles with your hands and expect them to be even but if they knew what they were doing they should know this already. Once it's grouted and you run your hand over it, it may not feel as uneven because the grout brings everything to level. I'd be more concerned about water pooling.

Sorry, here are some more details (I was a bit upset yesterday after finding out that the floor is so un-even):

- we are re-doing the entire shower because it leaked previously.
- they tore out all the tiles, and laid new tiles on walls and floors;
- for the shower flr, they laid down new wood, then the rubber membrane, then cement.
- on top of cement, they laid the hexagon tiles - where are un-even.

How big a deal is this? Of course, for me, I don't like it because I expect it to be relatively even (I understand the tiles are small and hard to lay properly) - but I feel the "ripple" effect is too much - I can clearly feel them when I run my hand over the entire surface.

I'm not sure what the contractor can do at this point to fix it. On one hand, I want him to fix it - at least make it better. But I'm not sure if the only way to do that is to rip up the tiles that's laid down already.

Advice would be much appreciated!

I forgot to add that you should cover the tile smoothly with vapor barrier/plastic before you dribble the water just to get a sense of if it flows to the drain--or doesn't. You can get a roll of this plastic in the paint section of Home Depot for $3.99.

Did your old shower have a problem with water pooling/puddling?
If it did, the contractor should have leveled the floor before tiling. You didn't give really any information about this so it's hard to respond. What's under the tile? Is it hardibacker, cement or god forbid it's not plywood. It's odd that they didn't the edges. I've used this tile and I start from edge on one side and then cut at the ending side. You can put in a marble baseboard on top to cover any jagged floor tiles. These tiles won't crack so you don't have to worry about that but if you have standing water after a shower then that's an issue. I doubt very much that they're going to rip it up and do it again so it's not a good situation. Can you dribble a little water on there and see if it puddle? If it doesn't, I'd let it go. These tile very small and very thick and the mesh is very wobbly and I have some unevenness and I did it myself. One tile stuck out far enough that I might have stubbed my toe on it so I did remove and mixed a tablespoon of thinset and reset a new one.

Hey Guys - need a bit more advice here:

We just managed to check out the new shower floor - it's done in the small hexagon marble tiles (like this) and it feels un-even!!! I ran my hand through the surface, and I can feel the "ups" and "downs". I understand that the floor is suppose to pitch toward the drain so the water can run down that way. But sadly, I could feel that my floor is lower towards the door, pitches up a bit (very slightly, but I can still fill it with my hand), and then pitches down towards the drain.

How bad is this? Is it bad enough that I should ask the contractor to rip it up and re-do? Or just complain (verbally) and let it be?



PS want to add that the shower is not completely done yet. THe walls are done, but the shower floor still needs the edges done (the small tiles cut to size to fit), and then grouted.

All good tips - thanks much guys!

Fingers crossed it'll be a smooth job...

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This was work I was doing on my own in my own building with a helper. Turns out a seem along a window had been leaking for years. A simple job turned into replacing out several rotted studs, extra drywall work, and exterior repairs.

Most contracts have a hidden damage clause. Its like if you are insulating and you find live knob & tube wiring behind the wall that isn't supposed to be there. The wiring will have to be redone before the insulation work can continue.

Also I think you are allowed 30 days to pay an invoice. Sometimes fly by nighters might ask for payment immediately. Blow them off, you are allowed to take your time and evaluate before paying. If they can't make payroll then they don't know how to run a business.

I don't know MDM sounds like you've been taken. The contractor sizes up the job and you have a contract protecting you. The contractor bids the job first and has to build into his price the possibility of unknowns, so don't get caught by sleazy guys trying to charge more. Too many of these ruff tumblers in jc. Make sure they stick to their price.

All sound advice. Make sure a big chunk (50% at least for a small job) is payable only on completion and inspection (including city permit inspection if that's involved). You can always buy pizza or sandwiches if the guys are working hard and you feel like it, but it shouldn't be an expectation and I wouldn't start doing that on day 1. Providing water or gatorade is probably more on the mark. Tipping should not be expected.

You should get a written and signed estimate or contract, that spells out exactly what will be done, what triggers payments and what has to be done before the final payment is made.

I did my bathroom and I paid half up front and was supposed to pay the rest upon completion but this guy asked for money every day (I shouldn't have given it to him). By the time he was done he was owed very little and had no incentive to come back to fix what I wasn't happy with. So I recommend you inspect everything as he works (the day or evening of). Be assertive with what you are not happy with; you have to live with it when he leaves. Tile work is a pain to re-do so be clear about what you want beforehand. Also be clear on who is responsible for the clean up. There will be a mess of discarded materials that if you put in the trash, it may tip the city off to a job without a permit. Your contractor will probably try to charge you to discard it.

The contractor is asking half up front, half at completion.

Is this standard practice?

Thx.

Pizza and stuff is not your job. Don't worry about that. Paying the contractor's scheduled payments promptly so he can make payroll is the best thing you can do.

My $0.02 worth of advice: Have an extra 20% in cash set aside as a contingency reserve. Small jobs often turn into bigger jobs as the work reveals previously hidden issues. In my case, finding water damage from a leak that wasn't even known about.

This is our first time having major work done in our apartment, so I'm wondering if other JC fellows can give some pointers on the basic rules:

1. Payment schedule for the contractor: we're having our shower fixed (re-done), and I understand I'm suppose to pay part of it upfront, and then when it's done? If so, how should the payment schedule be divided? E.g. x% before start, y% at end?

2. Am I suppose to buy them pizza lunch? The contractor said it'll take about 3-5 days to complete the job. My friends had done this when they had small jobs done, but it's going to add up after 5 days (to an already big ticket job)!!!

3. Am I suppose to tip the guys when the job is done?

Any other pointers? Things I need to watch out for? As an FYI, we're getting our own tiles directly.

Thanks in advance!!! I've gotten a lot of usual info in the past, so just want to say I really appreciate everyone's help!!!