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Re: Jersey City to choose new ambulance provider?
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Not too shy to talk
 
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Yes.
Posted on: 2013/12/23 22:56
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linky, Your 2 brothers in law the "Firemen" and Sister the "nurse", should realize that JCMC, has been the ambulance provider for the past 130 years!! And are looking to continue being the ambulance provider!Not take over, Mccabe is the for profit ambulance company affiliated with the for profit hospital Christ -Care point hospital that Your Sister just happens to work for...Also it is Mccabe who will be in a consortium with the other local hospital ,i.e Bayonne,Hoboken (who just happen to be Carepoint Hospitals). Now as for the wait of over 15 minutes, that is not accurate at all, Also the JCFD has and will continue to be the first responder to certain medical calls. The FD can only supply O2 and AED and perform CPR, they have no other ability to administer any kind of medicine, nor do they have the ability to transport. All anyone including Your "Firemen Brothers in-law, and Sister the Nurse " have to do is simply look to the deal Mccabe had with Secaucus, where they couldn't maintain 2 ambulances in town ,nor could they maintain a response time of 8 minutes or less.
Posted on: 2013/12/23 19:05
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Re: Jersey City to choose new ambulance provider?
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Two of my brothers-in-law are JC fireman, and my sister has been a nurse at Christ Hospital since 1980. They are wholeheartedly against the JCMC taking over the first responder contractor, not because they want what's in it for them but because it will be bad for the public. My brothers-in-law say that they sometimes wait 15 minutes for an ambulance after they have responded to calls. He was red in the face yelling that people are going to die waiting for help if this JCMC takes over. My sister, the nurse, says that JCMC will join a consortium of hospitals with neighboring towns which seems like it will be a logistical mess, making response time even worse. In addition, I am a public school teacher who deals with grant money all the time. I know how public institutions use creative accounting to suck grant money away from the designated programs into the general fund. JCMC is in financial trouble. Why do you think they want to receive all the money. Do you think they are fighting so hard to take this on, so they can use all that money solely for the new service? Bottom line is this. It is a cost efficient and effective to have fireman respond to first responder calls. They're being paid anyway to be in the firehouse, and they are always the first ones to show up. Their response time is way better than cops, and EMTs. And please don't think that my brother-in-law is a selfish union idiot. He's going to get paid anyway. He is upset because he cares about the public and knows what's going to happen if this change happens..
Posted on: 2013/12/23 11:40
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Re: Jersey City to choose new ambulance provider?
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Prior to the last contract in 2009 (Great Recession), JCMC received $0 from the city in all the years its been serving JC. At the time of the last contract, JCMC was in financial distress and was set to shut it's doors which would have meant Jersey City would be left without ambulatory service since no other ambulance companies were interested in servicing Jersey City. It is mandated by NJ state that the city must have an ambulance service so the JC city officials at the time had to make a critical decision. ?There was no one else offering ambulatory service bidding at the time so JC was left with only two options: ?? 1. Jersey city would have had to build their own city ambulatory fleet, dispatch center and staff it all from nothing. Then maintain this fleet equip the vans with necessary medical equipment. ?The cost would have been astronomical. ??or... 2. Utilize JCMC's infrastructure and fleet, stabilize JCMC books and build from their platform to create a nationally recognized EMT fleet at a much lower cost to the city. Jersey City chose to invest in JCMC through the new contract. ? Here is briefly how the investment process followed... *The 2009 contract was paid an average of $3.8m per year and $3.9m the last year. ?Those funds were used to stabilize finances and to purchase 14 new ambulances, equipped them with state of art electronics systems and revamp the 911 dispatch center with new motoring like the MARVLIS tracking computer that can predict hot spots based on time of day and 911 call history. ?Statistically it lowers response time by 9% without any change in personal, just by placing ambulances in the strategic ares. ?Now the end result for JCMC EMS is a 40 ambulance fleet with 5 ALS busses, directed by the MARVLIS dispatch system improving the response every year. ?The money that went to JCMC has given the city a nationally recognized non-profit EMS system that is now financially able to reinvest into new ideas and technology. It would be a shame to throw all that investment away now. * http://www.unioncityreporter.com/view ... nstance=home_Most_popular
Posted on: 2013/12/23 3:34
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Home away from home
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JCMC may keep their ambulance service, but if they don't have the contract how many people are they going to have to use?
Posted on: 2013/12/23 3:13
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JPhurst, The JCMC is not giving up their ambulance service, even if they lose the Jersey City contract, They already made that clear.Secondly Mccabe has already attempted to purchase ambulances from JCMC in order to get the necessary ambulances just to fulfill the contract and were told there not for sale. So if JCMC isn't getting rid of their ambulance service what makes You believe that the EMT's will just leave the JCMC and work for Mccabe? Also the JCMC offers training constantly for their EMT's and afford them the opportunity to become paramedics(ALS) something Mccabe doesn't offer, if they leave JCMC to go to Mccabe there's no room for advancement, so whats the benefit for an EMT to leave JCMC to go to Mccabe?
Posted on: 2013/12/23 2:37
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What should gain more traction is that these are out of network ambulance rides who will bring most to out of network hospitals. Jersey City willing to accept $2.6 million to whore out its residents into financial devastation.
Posted on: 2013/12/23 2:29
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Home away from home
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I give lots of credit to Al Sullivan for that article. It is very informative, and presents both sides of the issue while not simply quoting each side for their most ridiculous hyperbole.
A few things I think are notable. 1. JCMC basically admits that it was previously charging millions of dollars for the services not because that's what they cost, but because they were losing money all around and needed to use the ambulance service to make a profit. Had this not been opened up to competitive bidding I suspect they would have continued to bill the city. From a purely rational standpoint I understand that you don't punish JCMC for this fact if their bid is, in fact, superior. But it leaves a bitter taste in the mouth. And no matter how this turns out, the city did the right thing by sending out the Request for Proposals. 2. Sullivan's article is the only one that has cogently explained how the Medicare/Medicaid anti-kickback law applies. 3. I find it a little curious that people are saying it is inappropriate for McCabe to rely on technology for dispatch because you need drivers who know the city. First of all, most of the drivers will be the same. They will just be re-hired. Second, when I toured the JCMC a few years ago, it's "command center" technology was one of the most impressive parts of the visit. They place their ambulances based on where the data shows the "hot spots" are at particular times. That is what leads to the good response time. 4. McCabe seems to deride that JCMC places its ambulances on the street, rather than these central garages they will build. But doing so allows for flexibility in dispatch. 5. I really cannot believe how much traction the "130 years of service" has gotten. The entities providing service under the "JCMC" label are completely different. At one point it was a city operation, at one point it was a non-profit. And the idea that these drivers are some semi-immortal Highlanders who know all the ins and outs of Jersey City, but will somehow forget that once they drive a McCabe ambulance doesn't make sense. JCMC's parent isn't even based in Jersey City, for goodness sake.
Posted on: 2013/12/23 2:17
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Posted on: 2013/12/22 13:10
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?The point system the way the administration evaluated and presented to the council members was not counted as popular vote but electoral. Since Robert J. Kakoleski, Walter Kierce, and Peter Soriero all voted against and Stacey Flanagan, Bhavini Doshi voted for JCMC, it came down to 3 vs 2 for McCabe/ CarePoint vs. JCMC.
?First Responder Services: 10 points actually referred to ?Respondent should indicate its intent to provide First Responder Services or its consent to reimburse the City for provision of First Responder Service by Fire Department?. So that $2.6 million agreement ?McCabe/ CarePoint has agreed to reimburse the JC annually for estimated city?s expenditures related to Jersey City Fire Department?s first responder service and Cost Proposal? is the only reason the vote ended up in favor of McCabe/ CarePoint over JCMC. Here is the breakdown of how the Fulop Administration estimated the cost of that reimbursement: Total Personal Costs: $1,980,134.75 Total Vehicle Costs: $536,000 Total Medical Supplies Costs: $147,111.16 ----------------------------------------------------- Total First Responder Costs: $2,663,245.91 *** All quoted from Jersey City Department of Administration Evaluation of Basic Life Support Ambulance Service Proposals *** Thanks to JP Hurst on JCList, you can see the full documents here (page 453-493) : http://jerseycitynj.gov/uploadedFiles ... solutions/resos121813.pdf Since this contract is over Evaluation of BASIC LIFE SUPPORT, I am going to break it down as life support measure and talk about what this means: Jersey City Medical Center (JCMC) reported to total 98,134 EMS services to Jersey City residents in 2012: ?Total BLS responses: 50,192 ?Total Priority One Response: 16,546 ?Total Patient Transport: 31,396 *** JCMC only handles Emergency Cases. They do not offer patient transport. The Patient Transports reported above provide care to patients who require cardiac and medical monitoring transport. The contract that is awarded to McCabe/ CarePoint only requires response time of eight (8) minutes or less to 90% of Priority One Calls. When awarding this contract to McCabe/ CarePoint, Mayor Fulop went on a record on 12/13/13 to say following statement: ?We made the right choice for the taxpayers of Jersey City and equally important we made the right choice for anybody who needs transportation to the hospital,? said Mayor Fulop: ?This ensures Jersey City residents will receive the highest quality of emergency healthcare.? According to the City Hall press release, analysis showed that during November 2013 there were 69 emergency calls requiring ambulance service to which the Jersey City Medical Center was unable to respond within eight minutes. The release also claims that from Jan. 1, 2013 through Sept. 30th, 2013, Jersey City Medical Center was unable to respond at all to 121 calls for ambulance service. So lets dissect those numbers: (http://hudsonreporter.com/view/full_s ... e=top_story#ixzz2o5HgOKwd) Here are facts to dispute mayor?s comments above: *Total Priority One Response JCMC had in 2012: 16,546 ? Monthly average of Total Priority One Response: 1,654 ?10% allowance that allows JCMC EMS to show up over 8 minute response time in current McCabe/ CarePoint contract: 165 monthly average. ?Then JCMC's Nov. 2013 number of 69 Mayor Fulop is complaining about (assuming it was in regard to Priority One Calls) is significantly lower than 10% allowance he is giving to McCabe/ CarePoint with the current contract. That number even drops down significantly lower with JCMC if he was talking about total BLS response. Also, one has to consider Nov. is generally busy month with most number of traveling vehicles on the road making it likely to end up with higher automobile accidents resulting on more EMS getting 911 calls. ? That 121 calls that JCMC did not respond between Jan. 1st-Sept. 30th, 2013? That?s because JCFD first responders got there first. That number will significantly jump with McCabe/ CarePoint contract since we expect that very service reimbursement to go up to 2.6 million dollars. Bottom line, the numbers to justify this contract with McCabe just isn?t there and number so don't lie. Please don't forget that us residents in Jersey City deserve to have the highest quality of EMS service, not just barely minimum required with McCabe/ CarePoint, as life saving measure and that is JCMC EMS.
Posted on: 2013/12/21 7:25
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Not too shy to talk
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Yes - that line stood out to me, too. In the rebidding process, I would like to see to the bids made public so that we can better understand the logic in how some of the panel awarded its points. For example, one member gave JCMC 0 points for First Responder training but McCabe 2 points. What was the protocol for that area? JCMC runs CPR for the Healthcare Professional certification every 2-3 weeks, 3 EMT courses a year, and partners with HCCC for a paramedic program. Were they going to prevent city employees from taking part in some of these opportunities? Or was the reviewer missing this information?
Posted on: 2013/12/21 4:09
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Re: Jersey City to choose new ambulance provider?
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"If the council fails to approve the contract by the end of the year, the city will begin the bidding process anew, said Morrill, ........"
So this process starts all over again? Can someone explain how the point system works? I'm not understanding how JCMC got the most points but lost anyway....
Posted on: 2013/12/20 17:15
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Jersey City committee ranked McCabe over JCMC for ambulance contract, 3-2
By Terrence T. McDonald/The Jersey Journal December 17, 2013 at 11:53 PM In close voting, three of the five Jersey City officials who sat on a committee to evaluate proposals for the city?s ambulance provider contract ranked CarePoint Health/McCabe?s plan No. 1 with the other two ranking Jersey City Medical Center first, city records show. The director of emergency management for the city ranked CarePoint/McCabe No. 1, while the city's health director ranked JCMC No. 1. The five officials were tasked with looking at the two proposals and giving points based on response time, management and staff, cost and 24 other criteria, according to records provided by the city. JCMC?s plan received more total points than CarePont/McCabe?s -- 1,201 to 1,191 -- but the majority of the committee individually ranked CarePoint/McCabe first. Read more from the Jersey Journal
Posted on: 2013/12/20 4:42
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The story of why McCabe's 5 year contract in Secaucus was canceled after only one year. The full story is a fascinating read.
"McCabe was required to respond to 911 calls within seven minutes and 59 seconds, barring any extraordinary circumstances. The mayor said that the response time of the second McCabe ambulance has exceeded eight minutes many times over the past couple of months. The original contract with McCabe also required that two ambulances be stationed in town, but Gonnelli said that this was not always followed." Read more: Hudson Reporter - http://www.hudsonreporter.com/view/fu ... ency-fleet-#ixzz2nyjUK8oh
Posted on: 2013/12/20 2:35
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Home away from home
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The issue of resources can not be completely discounted, but it strikes me as being overblown.
Most businesses are not in the habit of maintaining huge inventory and surplus personnel if they are not providing services. When a business gets a contract, it ramps up in these areas. I've seen this in the context of school bus contracts. A long time provider gets underbid from a newcomer, and you hear the same arguments "You're changing for a few dollars?!?!?!? Where will they get the drivers and equipment?!?!?!?! And IT'S OUR CHILDREN'S SAFETY WE ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!!!!!" And then usually the new company hires most of the company's old drivers, purchases or leases the necessary vehicles, and the transition goes forward. It seems to me that the biggest question are the dispatch capabilities of the new contractor. I've toured JCMC and was incredibly impressed with their command room. Those are the types of things where incumbency and knowledge seem to have real value. McCabe was already inviting JCMC personnel to work for the new company (of course, when they prepared for a transition, they were accused of arrogance for not waiting for council approval. These were the same critics who questioned whether McCabe could in fact make a quick transition). So the question of ability to transition is not meaningless. But apparently the committee that looked at this felt that McCabe was prepared to make it. I have no dog in the hunt and really like JCMC, but the rhetoric that has surrounded this contract (even before it was rewarded) has been far too alarmist for me.
Posted on: 2013/12/19 13:15
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The emphasis Mayor Fulop is stating for change for EMS service in JC in the press is the dollar amount of $2.6 million McCabe will be reimbursing to Jersey City for using JC's Fire department as first responders when McCabe's own response is slower. The bid was awarded to McCabe over that $2.6 estimated reimbursement. Looking through the 5 panel score criteria, First Responder Service / Reimbursement is where JCMC came short. But there is flaw with that estimated amount.
*** Quoted from Jersey City's own Fire Department?s website below: 'Fire companies respond from 17 fire stations located throughout the City. Last year, the Fire Department responded to over 18,000 fire alarms, emergencies, and requests for medical assistance. All members of the Jersey City Fire Department receive first responder training and all Fire Department vehicles are equipped with automatic defibrillators. ' JCMC EMS handles about 91,000 EMS services in Jersey City yearly. Our Great Fire Department of Jersey City responded to about 18,000 fire alarms, emergencies and medical assistance in total last year. McCabe currently only handles 10,000 emergency calls in Bayonne and is rushing to hire more EMS personnel and purchase ambulances. With the volume of 91,000 distress calls with less than half the JCMC EMS fleet. McCabe will rely upon JCFD to pick up the slack. We are going from total is 39 state licensed ambulances and five non transport capable ALS vehicles, state licensed from current JCMC EMS to McCabe's 18 that it?s rushed to order that are only capable of serving us with ELS ambulances. (Difference between the two explained below) JCFD would have to have to add a minimum 20+ ambulances on top of extra personnel to close that gap to match the fleet that we have in service with JCMC EMC. That estimated 2.6 million JC will be reimbursed through the contract for using JCFD first responders will no way be saving money to us residents. Additionally, JCFD vehicles are not ALS but BLS; same as the fleet of McCabe ambulances. JCMC EMS has 5 ALS ambulances that are in themselves each mobile trauma center, an extension of the hospitals trauma center proven to save lives. Please watch this video that breaks down the difference between ALS and BLS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yn0PmGn8y-Y http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_life_support This change might seem like it is a great deal for the city on the paper but in a long run, will cost city tax payers more money to implement all the necessary substitutions that might not even match JCMC EMS? current response time and service while us the residents are put at risk.
Posted on: 2013/12/19 12:39
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Because almost everyone has a different insurance policy with varying deductibles and out of network agreements, you should call your insurance company and find out what your ambulatory expenses are currently with JCMC EMS and what your ambulatory expenses would be with McCabe. They can look it up and give you an answer. .... JCMC was paid 3.8 million per year only on their last three year contract. They did not charge before that. I believe that the money was invested into JCMC EMS equipment and technology.
Posted on: 2013/12/19 5:48
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I am most concerned with the complete lack of discussion as to how much a town resident will pay for an ambulance ride under McCabe vs. JCMC.
It is my understanding based on the posts in this thread that McCabe is out of network for most insurances. And I have posted the links based on my research that demonstrate the cost to a patient for an out of network ambulance ride ranges from $750 - $2,000. Obviously this is horrible. However, how much does it cost for a JCMC ambulance ride right now? Would that change if JCMC is awarded the new contract? Are JCMC ambulances in network for most insurances? I don't care if the town gets an extra $2 million from the McCabe contract if the residents lose out in the form of paying $2000 for previously cheap ambulance rides. But all I see from the JCMC side are arguments that JCMC should keep the contract because they have served the city for so long. I'm not very persuaded by that either, especially as it seems like JCMC has been ripping the city off for decades for charging the city money for the contract and all of a sudden they will do it for free now that McCabe will pay $$. So I think it is Fulop's responsibility to make some kind of statement as to how much residents will pay under either contract. His quote from the linked article is the difference between McCabe's proposal and JCMC?s is ?night and day.? This just seems arrogant and isn't conveying anything about costs to residents. Why are no articles asking this?
Posted on: 2013/12/19 4:33
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Home away from home
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What was the rationale for JCMC's lobbying campaign, which commenced even before the contract recommendation had been made?
Posted on: 2013/12/19 3:46
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I am still trying to understand all these issues but i really don't see how this is night and day if JCMC got more points.
Posted on: 2013/12/19 3:23
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Since Mayor Fulop speaks language as a former banker with great importance on numbers, here the EMS and Ambulance Gap Analysis: http://civicparent.org/2013/12/18/ems-ambulance-gap-analysis/
Unfortunately, quality of the proven service, know how of the city streets, level of experience serving Jersey City for over a century do not equate to any dollar amount in Fulop's statement to Jersey Journal.
Posted on: 2013/12/19 3:10
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Not too shy to talk
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I am curious how this contract is "night and day" in any ways other than financial.
Posted on: 2013/12/19 2:55
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McCabe supporters pack Jersey City council chambers
By Terrence T. McDonald/The Jersey Journal December 18, 2013 at 9:04 PM Jersey City today withdrew its request for the City Council to vote on a contract that would have made CarePoint Health/McCabe Ambulance the city?s ambulance provider, but that didn?t stop McCabe supporters from packing the council chambers at the body?s regular meeting tonight. The proposed contract will now not be voted on until 2014. The Jersey City Medical Center, which currently provides ambulances for the city at a cost of roughly $4 million annually to city taxpayers, had offered to continue the service at no charge, but their bid was rejected by the city administration in favor of CarePoint/McCabe?s, which offered to reimburse the city for costs associated with firefighters who respond to medical emergencies. The city estimates that could be $2.6 million annually. City officials said they postponed tonight?s vote so the federal Office of the Inspector General could review the CarePoint/McCabe deal. City spokeswoman Jennifer Morrill said the city expects to recommend CarePoint/McCabe again next year. Mayor Steve Fulop tonight defended the CarePoint/McCabe plan to The Jersey Journal, saying the difference between its proposal and JCMC?s is ?night and day.? Read More from the Jersey Journal
Posted on: 2013/12/19 2:18
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Does anyone know why NJ has a law against "balance billing" for out of network emergency services only for HMO members? Why would they exclude PPO or other plans from this protection?
Posted on: 2013/12/19 1:09
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Not too shy to talk
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Now that they share a wallet with CarePoint it's no wonder they can afford the ads!
Posted on: 2013/12/19 0:04
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The problem for the Medical Center is that Carepoint has to staff up for a smooth transition because, as of this moment, they do not have the resources to service our city. So where are they going to get these resources? The JCMC EMT team.
Not a good position to be in.
Posted on: 2013/12/18 20:06
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The mayor told The Jersey Journal his administration will request that JCMC continue providing ambulance service on a month-by-month basis, at no cost, until a new provider is approved. Just curious...does JCMC have to abide by this month-to-month agreement? From a business standpoint, who can expect to effectively operate their business on a month-to-month basis?
Posted on: 2013/12/18 20:03
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And it sounds as thought Fulop expects the same outcome -- referring to transition. "We feel good and this will give more time to transition to make any change seamless," he said. The mayor told The Jersey Journal his administration will request that JCMC continue providing ambulance service on a month-by-month basis, at no cost, until a new provider is approved.
Posted on: 2013/12/18 19:10
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Posted on: 2013/12/18 19:10
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Home away from home
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Table this ordinance.
The end...
Posted on: 2013/12/18 19:08
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