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I'm running the risk of having too many anti-PC points on my Gay Card but... LMFAO!

OK - clearly its time to stop grieving for the idea that we gay people were going to lead by example, and chip away at society's hetero-normativity; but aren't there too many children out there no-one seems to care about? Do you really need to churn out more? Let me know the next time a gay couple is having a hard time adopting, I'll join you on the barricades.

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I found 'em, read the comments in the link below.
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011 ... _for_custod.html#comments

Heights, if you're looking for Freudian over or undertones, you're likely to find them....but sometimes, a cigar is just a smoke.

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Right you are, I had the daddies mixed up which seems to be the basis to this whole fiasco.

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I stand corrected Don is the pseudo dad not the bio. Still there must be some Freudian incestuous connotations in here somewhere.

Heights, that ship has sailed. Whether or not it fits your view of the world, infertile couples (yes, men and women!) have been using surrogates to carry couples' fertlized eggs where the woman cannot do so, and have been using donor eggs where the woman cannot produce viable ones for decades. This is not new science or even new law. If you're thrown off by the fact that the father of these children is married to a man rather than a woman, that's your issue.

Josiered, the article says quite clearly the surrogate mother is the sister of Donald and that the biological father is the other man, Sean.

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Then the judge was made a fool of. They trusted the sister, the flesh and blood of Don and then she turns on the both of them including the judge...making a mockery of the court. Plus she is just the surrograte not the biological mother, where is the mommy in all this ? This is just too complicated for society to handle, there ought to be a law against such nonsense !

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Sure it must be a great extent to go to the corner store and buy a magazine and a dozen eggs to choose from. They also could have eliminated this hassle and just rent a vacum and some time at a science lab. 5 years is just too long a time to put anyone through especially the twins.

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But who does the egg belong to ? The sister is just hatching the egg.

Disagree, article says the Mother is his SISTER?

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Better? I didn?t say that, nor do I imply it. However, when individuals cooperate to such a great extent to effectively cultivate and harvest a human being simply because they want one, they could hardly be engaging in a more deliberate act. An act that deliberate has every luxury of being accompanied by wisdom.

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Yes, much better to be born under the "usual" circumstances, like mine:

"your father, whom I hate, but married because I was 25 and it was 1959 and I didn't want to be an old maid, drinks too much and is getting violent, so we're leaving him to go live with my new boyfriend, who I met at a swingers party, because now it's 1973 and that's what everybody in this white heterosexual suburb is doing."

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go take my pills before I meet with my therapist.

Obviously, Heights confused surrogacy with incest. Sad.

I am happy to say that I have been a donor to a gay couple trying to conceive by way of a surrogate, and couldn't be happier for the chance I have given them.

Heights? poor attitudes notwithstanding, how much class is there really in deliberately foisting unusual circumstances upon children in order to fulfill personal goals?

?Your aunt, whom we hate, is actually your mother, but we only used her for her womb, so you aren?t really her children in a way. We have no idea who your genetic mother is. Granted, you share important traits with her that would help you to understand yourselves as you grow older, but like we said, we don?t care, we just wanted to be fathers. Now take your pills young ladies, your appointment with the therapist is in two hours.?

Gay couple gets custody of surrogate twins

UPI
Dec. 20, 2011

JERSEY CITY, N.J., Dec. 20 (UPI) -- A New Jersey judge has given a gay couple custody of twin girls conceived under a surrogacy agreement between one of the partners and the other's sister.

Angelia Robinson, who was declared the girls' legal mother even though she is not biologically related to the twins, was granted visitation rights, The (Newark) Star-Ledger reported. She was implanted with a donor egg fertilized by Sean Hollingsworth.

Hollingsworth and Donald Robinson Hollingsworth live in Jersey City. They were married in California.

The case was in some ways a re-run of the landmark Baby M dispute a quarter-century ago. Robinson was represented by Harold Cassidy, the lawyer who represented Mary Beth Whitehead in her fight for custody of the girl she bore under a surrogacy agreement.

In his ruling last week in Hudson County Superior Court, Judge Francis Schulz commented on the difficulties of the case.

"The parents' ability to agree, communicate and cooperate in matters relating to the children is non-existent here," he wrote. "They hardly speak verbally to each other and there is little communication in writing. They disagree on what school the children should attend, what religion the children should be brought up in, and what they should be told about surrogacy, what they should be told about the gay lifestyle and there is uncertainty as to how the children will be instructed as to their biracial heritage."

While Robinson agreed to carry the children, in what turned out to be a difficult pregnancy, she later said she was coerced. She said at the time she was out of work and dependent on her brother.

Schulz said the children, now 5, have a stable life with the two men.

Read more:
Link on the earlier NJ case of Baby M:

http://web.archive.org/web/2007052600 ... ues/2007/03-Mar/babym.htm

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By no means is this the first time.
But the Webmaster usually deletes these posts, shocked, shocked to discover racism, prejudice and intolerance on this site.

I feel like this thread is a Festivus miracle. I cannot say how happy I am that others recognize the moron with the train as a whackjob and wish he'd crawl back into his cave.

More importantly, I appreciate GrovePath grabbing random relevant articles and posting them here. I wouldn't read the NJ rags normally, so I find it useful.

I have less of an issue with improper use of grammar as compared to incomplete grasp of reality. The gay dads are here, heights, and they have a family that a judge trusted to protect, deal with it. Saying that they should have "done their duty" by marrying straight and procreating is like Bachmann who says that gay couples can marry.. with someone of the opposite sex. In that instance, Bachmann just ignored the word "couple" not to have to face it. The question heights is, can you face the concept? From what I see, these dads "procreated", and I am sure that the judge made sure that they follow the gay "lifestyle", I mean straight, I mean.., you know, all these very peculiar things like going to the supermarket, taking meals together, going to the beach in the summer, selecting the best school for the kids etc..

Ultimately you might find useful to trace back some of your gut reactions on some people back to your high school memories, press erase, and then reboot your brain. I can personally attest that it does marvel when one stop sorting out people based on expectations (they are the same, see all the folks getting married and this family) but on character instead, such as generosity..., and honesty.

Come on... by now, we all know to ignore Heights. The guy has serious issues. I sometimes wonder if he has ran out of meds when posting here. For someone who loves to rail against immigrants and foreigners, the guy shows a serious lack of proper grammar and syntax. In fact, given all his postings and musings, his poor grasp of proper English is simply outstanding.

Your comments about incest just exacerbate the ignorance that you usually demonstrate in your posts. Sorry if you have to look up a word or two on the internet. Your avatar is blowing smoke out of the wrong end. Kooky? "has anyone thought of that" with no question mark at the end? Thier? Incomplete sentences? Keep posting. Your comments are invaluable.

The father won. (And, Heights, don't know what the incest remark refers to.) The mother is not related to the father.

Incest is best. This is kind of kooky, an innocent living human being (actually 2) is coming out of this complicated situation has anyone ever thought of that. I guess we should not get married (the regular way) procreate (the regular way) but let the sciences work thier magic. Sounds like the mark to me.

N.J. gay couple fight for custody of twin 5-year-old girls

Tuesday, December 20, 2011, 8:55 AM
By Ted Sherman/The Star-Ledger

JERSEY CITY ? It was not the typical custody case.
On one side of the parental tug-of-war over the 5-year-old twin girls at the center of the long-fought court battle were Donald Robinson Hollingsworth and Sean Hollingsworth ? a gay couple who married in California and live in Jersey City.

On the other was Angelia Robinson, Donald Hollingsworth?s sister, who agreed to serve as a surrogate, ultimately giving birth to the girls through a donor embryo fertilized by Sean Hollingsworth.

At issue for the judge in a case of complicated and strained family relationships, and a contractual agreement with the mother that ended in a bitter lawsuit, was who could best care for the twins.

A Hudson County Superior Court judge law week awarded full custody to the biological father, Sean Hollingsworth, while preserving the parental visitation rights of Robinson ? who in an earlier court ruling had been declared to be the legal mother.

Through their attorneys, neither parent would comment on the case. But in his opinion, Judge Francis Schultz touched on frayed ties between the two sides.

"The parents? ability to agree, communicate and cooperate in matters relating to the children is nonexistent here," he wrote. "They hardly speak verbally to each other and there is little communication in writing. They disagree on what school the children should attend, what religion the children should be brought up in, and what they should be told about surrogacy, what they should be told about the gay lifestyle and there is uncertainty as to how the children will be instructed as to their biracial heritage."

The judge said one thing was clear: "There can be no joint legal custody in this case."

The attorney for the father, Karim Kaspar of Lowenstein Sandler in Roseland, called it a landmark ruling for tolerance and diversity.

"This decision is a victory for parents, particularly those in nontraditional families who value diversity and inclusion and pass those values along to their children," he said.

Attorney Harold Cassidy of Shrewsbury, who represented Robinson, responded that the case had nothing to do with the rights of same-sex couples.

"This entire case was litigated on the basis that the sexual orientation of the proposed adoptive parties is absolutely irrelevant," he stated. "No one raised it. The issue of whether a same sex-couple can be good custodial parents is not an issue in this state. It has not been an issue for 35 years."

RELATED COVERAGE:

? N.J. judge rules surrogate legal mother of twins despite not being genetically related

? Appeals court rules N.J. woman must adopt boy conceived through in vitro to be considered mother

COUPLE TOOK CUSTODY AFTER COMPLICATIONS

Cassidy said the mother had found herself in circumstances where she was dependent on her brother for a place to live and compelled to sign a contract the day before the embryo implanted.

According to court records, Robinson, then living in Texas, struck an agreement in 2005 to become a surrogate for her brother and his partner. She moved to Jersey City, where her brother lived, and was given a job his New York accounting firm. When it was determined that her own eggs could not be used, a donor egg fertilized by Sean Hollingsworth was implanted.

After the girls were born following near-fatal complications for the mother and the infants, the two men took custody of the children. While Robinson had access to the girls, the relationship between her and her brother soon began to badly deteriorate and a lawsuit was filed months later, with Robinson claiming she was coerced into the surrogacy arrangement.

Granted visitation rights, Robinson was found to be the legal mother in a 2009 ruling by Schultz, despite not being genetically related to the children ? a ruling that relied heavily on the decades-old Baby M case that determined surrogate mother Mary Beth Whitehead was in fact the biological mother of a child she carried for another couple.

Kapar said Sean Hollingsworth and his partner felt she had agreed to help them start a family before backing out and changing her mind. "That was a source of tension," he said.

Cassidy, who had represented Whitehead, said a surrogate contract was legally unenforceable in New Jersey.

The judge, in his custody ruling last week, noted the children had bonded well with both the mother and the Hollingsworths. But he said the twins had unique needs, both in how they were conceived, that their father and his partner are in a same-sex relationship, and that there were differences in the churches they attend.

FATHER WINS CUSTODY

In court proceedings, the judge specifically noted the anti-gay views of both Robinson, who now lives in Middletown, and her mother ? who cared for the children when her daughter was at work on days she had custody. In his ruling, he said while Robinson and her mother meant well, be believed "the inevitable would occur" in discussions with the children.

"Their strong feelings about surrogacy and homosexuality will be understood by the girls and will have a very damaging effect on them It will make them feel ashamed of themselves."

He said the stability of their lives in Jersey City, where they presently attend kindergarten, was also a factor. While he did not find any of the parties lacked parental fitness, he said the best interests of the children would be served by awarding custody to the father with visitation rights for the mother.

Cassidy said his client was considering an appeal.
"She thought she was going to be involved in the lives of the children," he said. "She could not and did not expect or anticipate what the experience was going to be like; that there was going to be a falling out."