Thrifty - sent you a PM

Jmom

OK, I've given this some thought and let's just back up a step and give some bullet-proof, simple advice based on the facts:

1. you have to attend college

2. you must be a strong student (good grades, good MCAT scores)

although the above two points are necessary, they are not sufficient. However, many students fail to fulfill #2, so there isn't even any need to worry about whether or not one really wants to be a physician or how to finance medical school. The decision will be made for them.

So let's not put the carriage in front of the horse... If someone is a strong enough candidate for medical school, there will be ways to finance a medical school education.

Therefore, this student has to do some basic research into what colleges/universities will be a good fit for him. Judging only from the information given (modest family means and SAT scores), he should realistically look into attending a state university (e.g., Rutgers, SUNY).

State Universities will be more expensive than community college, but it should still be affordable by taking student loans. It will also afford the student the chance to sink or swim among 10,000 or so other fish and will afford the resources and opportunities to determine if he/she really wants to be a physician.

Like I said before, if the student can't really rise to the top in a state school, he or she most likely isn't a fitting candidate to become a physician. A large state university can serve as a launching pad for a million other careers, so it may be a better back-up plan than beginning at a community college.

Once he or she enters college, take appropriate first-year courses:

https://www.aamc.org/students/applying/requirements/62892/msar/

First year is simple (simple, but not easy): once you have the proper courses lined up, knock them down. Aim for straight A's, talk with your advisor/counselor often and hang out with the pre-med club crowd to get tips and leads.

After the first year, re assess. Are the grades good? Do you have any meaningful experiences that lead you to continue on course to medical school? Have you developed interests, passions aside from school and being a doctor?

If the grades are good, it actually gets harder, because you may really have to commit to a pre-med course load.

If the grades are middling, then it's easy: either double your academic efforts if you have the drive and the passion or, if you don't have the drive to perform academically, reset your course in another direction... you can rest assured that being a physician is not for you.

One other point, the New York State universities and colleges are a bargain for out of staters. They are the same price as Rutgers for in state and are also excellent schools.

my advice is similar to what someone else has already posted in the thread. it seems like everyone and their mom goes into pre-med or wants to be a doctor when they're in high school. the amount who actually make it (either because they don't make the cut, or they realize it's a profession they really never liked in the first place) is astounding.

aside from doing the bare minimum (like actually applying to college this year and not missing out on a year), i would recommend he attend any and all events hosted by local colleges that might shed information on the field. i dont know specifically when/where they are, but i know that stevens institute of technology, st peters college, and even probably njcu host events like these from time to time. you should call up these colleges (or go on their website, and then go to their science dept) and see if they offer any similar events / seminars.

being a doctor isnt everything it's cracked out to be - just make sure they're going into it for the right reasons (genuine love of the field) and not the wrong ones (pressure from environment to be one)

i agree physics is tough. just not sure it would help prepare one for the MCAT or medical school as well as focusing on higher math classes and chemistry--could be wrong. you can't do everything.

on biology, my sense is that you can pick up what you need for the MCAT without dedicating a lot of time to it. from what i saw, the huge amount of memorization required in biology is much easier to absorb/make sense of after struggling with advanced math and chemistry classes. alternatively, if you take biology as a freshman, unless you come in prepped, the only tool you have is to make a gizzillion flash cards--or whatever the current tech is.

anyway, my bias is clearly toward math and chemistry--i think these are among the toughest disciplines (in which i actually include physics and (analytic) philosophy), and the most rigorous in terms of clearly defined course development.

Has this student applied for college yet?

If he is serious about primary care medicine:

http://nhsc.hrsa.gov/scholarship/

http://www1.ccny.cuny.edu/prospective/med/

I'll contribute more concrete, specific ideas shortly.

In the meantime, I'd like to throw out an offer to mentor this young man. If he's uncomfortable meeting in-person, I could do the mentoring on-line only.

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I am not challenging your informative post, but just wondering: why would you go for minimal requirements in physics and biology?

Particularly for biology, I'd take a couple of advanced courses, if medical school is my goal.

A good grade in physics might also impress some medical school admissions officers.

Physics ain't easy...

my two cents...

i'll strongly echo the above about transferring after 1 or 2 years. if he performs well at, say, rutgers (the best choice for affordability if you do not anticipate financial aid), he could very likely get into NYU, Columbia or another top notch program.

from his current SAT score, he seems unlikely to get in to a top-flight school, but you never know.

anyway, no one will care about his SAT scores once he is in college. a realistic action plan is just to get in to a decent school, do extremely well, and then transfer to a 'better' school. the reason to transfer to a higher ranked school is simply because getting in to medical school is tough, and it is a disadvantage to come from a low ranked school when you are being evaluated against so many candidates from 'better' schools (not insurmountable, of course, but every bit helps).

imo, the 'best' course preparation for medical school includes a diverse curriculum that seriously emphasizes math and chemistry, forgets physics, biology, geology, sociology except for whatever minimal requirements are needed, and includes some art history classes/philosophy/music/english classes. (i say this having watched my college roommate do just this).

last, you might want to investigate having the military pick up the medical school tab, if he's willing to serve for a number of years afterward. this was definitely an attractive option for some of my college friends as the cost of med school is just enormous. i have to believe that this man's language skills would make him incredibly attractive to the military (and probably to any medical school as well).

good luck to him.

Thanks everyone - all of your replies were tremendously helpful. At least I have a jumping off point for some more discussions.

Kitcat - I pm'd you.

Much appreciated!

JM

well even before choosing colleges to attend, he needs to apply and see if he gets accepted and then what kind of financial aid they can provide. i definitely recommend rutgers as it is a state school and the best value for a nj resident.

if he can, he should take a standardized test again and boost those scores, to help in his admission to other universities that might have generous aid programs.

in addition, he should look at schools with rotc programs, i am sure they will find his background useful.

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When I went to undergrad I thought I had a shot at a full athletic scholarship but I was offered a red shirt my freshman year and a partial not full scholarship for year 1. Full scholarships are very hard to get for sports, you need to very, very talented. If he hasn?t been recruited by this point I think the chances of him getting a full scholarship in 2011 are slim to none. If he still has games he can try to put together a highlight tape and get a scout to a game but it may be a little late... You can approach a coach directly and potentially secure a partial scholarship or full if he is really good. I also know people who have literally shown up for the first practice/cuts and walked on. In any case if he is good enough to play D1 a coach can help with admissions! It is very difficult to even make a D1 team, you need to be more than talented, you need to be a star. If he has talent tell him to go for it and not to give up at first. There are plenty of stories of people who tried to walk on, didnt make the team years in a row, then became stars...

If $$ is an issue someone else posted the correct answer, community college, at least to start. This isnt easy to do, but I know people who did it: Find the target school/major you want ultimately, find out what classes you can transfer from your CC towards that major at that school. Attend your CC for 1 or 2 years taking those classes at a fraction of the cost for the full university. Ace the classes and transfer (hopefully) after 2 years to the university you wanted, graduate with a Bachelors 2 years later from the university.

I would also encourage him to look out of state. Some state schools in other states are amazing academically and have out of state tuition rates close to (or below) in-state tuition at big NJ universities. Also there are very few places you can pick that are more than expensive to live than NJ so cost of living could be much better also

Good luck, and how on earth do you get a 4.4 GPA, my schools didnt have a scale that went above 4.0!?

Those SAT's are way below what any premed student should have. He's going to need to really be spectacular in college to make that happen. But many "premed" students discover their true academic love in college, and realize premed was simply something people expect bright students to do. My wife started out premed, got a history degree, and is now a social worker (ironically supervising a number of psychiatrists).

I find it hard to believe there are really no college counselors in his HS, or has he not sought them out. Not that they necessarily will give the best advice, but they're where to start. Presuming he's not at McNair, where he'd surely know what what up with applications, perhaps there's a way he can see one of their counselors.

jerseymom...I use to be a college admission counselor at Seton Hall. I think its great you're trying to help this student, he sounds he could, and wants to go far!!!

It sounds like he has decent SATs and it really isn't too late to apply to school, he really has until Feb. to do that and still be on time. What might be tricky is if his parents are not able to help, both SHU and Rutgers, or really any school seems so expensive these days. Though all have scholarships and financial aid it's not easy to pull it all together.

I do remember the community colleges in NJ having a program I believe called STARS which would be full tuition paid for students who I believe graduated in the top 5% of their classes. I'm not sure if this program is still around but it might be worth looking in to.

If you need more info, feel free to PM me!

College sports take a lot of time. Its his choice but they're almost a full-time job.

I'd say transfer after two years with high marks.

The armed forces or FBI would also be interested in his language talents.

He's young and if he really wants to play I'd do that. The clock is always ticking g for athletes

His other score is 450. (So he's got a 590, 560 and 450). He speaks English and Arabic fluently and basic Spanish as well. I didn't think his SATs were all that great and I was thinking NJCU for the basics and then a transfer out.

He's a talented athlete (soccer) so he was hoping for Rutgers or another Division I school. Too far fetched, do you think?

When you say transfer - is that after Sophmore year most likely?

He's a good kid but rudderless in the college application process - it's a shame!

Many thanks for your input.

HCCC. his weighted GPA and ranking look less impressive because its Jersey city. Unless he went to mcnair.

Also where is the last sat score? Its out of 2400 in three tests. In the old system that score was good enough for William Patterson.

Tell him to just go anywhere finish his Gen eds with a 3.7 or better and transfer out.

What are the two langauges?

Either way it's November and if he wants to go anywhere by next fall he better get his ass in gear or its spring 2012.

Need some help here as I am totally out of my league.

I've been approached by a very nice, very smart, and very needy local high school senior for help. "John" is ranked 24th out of his class of 400+, serves on student government, is fluent in at least two languages, and is an excellent athlete. His SAT's were 590 math and 560 language. His current GPA is 4.4.

He wants to be a doctor.

His parents aren't in the position to help him with his college process and his school doesn't seem to be pointing him in a positive direction either. He has not yet applied to any colleges. That has me nervous as I believe this process needs to be completed in the fall, right?

If you were guiding an energetic and positive youngster like this, where would you start? Would Rutgers or Seton Hall be good choices for a pre-med student?

I want this young man to have a good start in a good college. He's working hard, guided by his own ambition - something you don't often see.

If anyone has any input, I would really appreciate it! Thanks.