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Re: Cuban letter writer is upset: Che Guevara used in Hard Grove Cafe ad
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I'll avoid wading into the issues of Cuban-American relations. I'll just say that the prior owner, Dominic Santana, was vehemently anti-Castro. So it's a bit ironic that the new owners want to play up the "Che Chic" angle.

Posted on: 2010/1/25 22:46
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Re: Cuban letter writer is upset: Che Guevara used in Hard Grove Cafe ad
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Quote:

greenville wrote:
Quote:

Br6dR wrote:
I agree that communism was a bad answer to the Batista regime but we'd be a lot closer to ending communism in Cuba if Cuban Americans would allow free trade with Cuba.


Sure, look how that is working out with china, they became more powerful and have more stringent on denying basic human rights like the freedom to vote, religion, etc.


Hey, did this debate just get some substance? I think it did. I gotta get in its head and crawl around a little.

True. Like any relationship, everything comes with problems. Do one thing, somethin' else happens. Do another... That's why people jump out of buildings or head to the fringe. Those silly ducks refuse to line dance.

Long sigh...

Trading with China didn't cause them to eviscerate Tibet. They would've done it anyway. America isn't the only country they can trade with. So an American blockade only hurts the poor. So how do you deal with that? Get them needing our trade and then enforce the law. Why don't we? Because our corporations fund our politicians. Hey, didn't I hear something about that lately?

Posted on: 2010/1/25 12:13
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Re: Cuban letter writer is upset: Che Guevara used in Hard Grove Cafe ad
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Br6dR wrote:
I agree that communism was a bad answer to the Batista regime but we'd be a lot closer to ending communism in Cuba if Cuban Americans would allow free trade with Cuba.


Sure, look how that is working out with china, they became more powerful and have more stringent on denying basic human rights like the freedom to vote, religion, etc.

Posted on: 2010/1/25 11:39
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Re: Cuban letter writer is upset: Che Guevara used in Hard Grove Cafe ad
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Loopy..... Why SOOOO Serious?



What's a hobbit?

Posted on: 2010/1/25 9:17
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Re: Cuban letter writer is upset: Che Guevara used in Hard Grove Cafe ad
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Go play with your hobbit action figures and stop posting.

Posted on: 2010/1/25 4:31
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Re: Cuban letter writer is upset: Che Guevara used in Hard Grove Cafe ad
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Posted on: 2010/1/24 21:21
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Re: Cuban letter writer is upset: Che Guevara used in Hard Grove Cafe ad
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He's dead, he's dead, he's dead.

Posted on: 2010/1/24 18:46
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Re: Cuban letter writer is upset: Che Guevara used in Hard Grove Cafe ad
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This is a great display of debate and free speech and I thank the moderator for this opportunity here.

That being said....

This thread IS interesting...or else others would NOT read ..and post silly,.."this ISN'T interesting" posts....JUVINILE.

I see it like THIS:

Some phonies are SHOCKED...SHOCKED I TELL YOU!!!!..that a people or person would defend themselves from ACTUAL terror...in other words...THEY FIGHT BACK!

They look the other way, or perhaps actually BENEFIT from THAT certain aggression.

A question:
If a person (female OR male) is repeatedly raped and beaten and threatened with death....and they FIGHT BACK and kill their assailant...are THEY all of sudden a 'terrorist'?

Posted on: 2010/1/24 1:06
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Re: Cuban letter writer is upset: Che Guevara used in Hard Grove Cafe ad
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JerseyCityPower wrote:
I would--except he's DEAD..the CIA killed him.


Yes, I know he's dead. Figure of speech.

Posted on: 2010/1/23 7:22
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Re: Cuban letter writer is upset: Che Guevara used in Hard Grove Cafe ad
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JerseyCityPower: relax. Terrorist violence is bad from right and left. Extremism is bad from both. You shouldn't be so upset about right-wing terror and be, in short, an apologist for left-wing terror. That is, unless of course you think it the core of revolutionary action. (BTW yes I know that Thomas Jefferson and Nelson Mandela, etc., once supported violent struggle against unjust regimes. That is not really the point if that's where this is going).

Anywy: This thread really ISN'T about a bad conversation with people I'm glad I don't have to have this conversation with in person... It's about how this story ISN'T news. It's just a bad restaurant's poor taste and terrible menu and, probably, a wealthy right-wing Cuban's rejection of that restaurant for that stupid reason alone. When he should reject it for being terrible.

Whoever keeps posting this JJ crap... Stop.

Posted on: 2010/1/23 7:21
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Re: Cuban letter writer is upset: Che Guevara used in Hard Grove Cafe ad
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I would--except he's DEAD..the CIA killed him.

Posted on: 2010/1/23 7:18
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Re: Cuban letter writer is upset: Che Guevara used in Hard Grove Cafe ad
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JerseyCityPower wrote:
You STILL will NOT answer with a simple YES or NO.
Sad.


You are SOOooooooo outraged that Che allegedly SAID something. (And NEVER actually DID the allegation)

YET...you refuse to definitively CONDEMN right-wing Cubans for their terror attack on US soil. (something which DID happen.)

You're so funny.


Oh...btw..."straw man argument"--YOU should look up the meaning.


Again, I answered your question. Read post #38.


I know the meaning of a straw man argument.

And again, I know he didn't do it. He didn't do it because he couldn't. That was my point. I'm sorry the truth offends you so much that it makes you create a diversion tactic. Your question has nothing to do with my point. It still stands because it is true.

It has nothing to do with me. It is what it is. He said it. Take it up with him.

Posted on: 2010/1/23 7:00
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Re: Cuban letter writer is upset: Che Guevara used in Hard Grove Cafe ad
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You STILL will NOT answer with a simple YES or NO.
Sad.


You are SOOooooooo outraged that Che allegedly SAID something. (And NEVER actually DID the allegation)

YET...you refuse to definitively CONDEMN right-wing Cubans for their terror attack on US soil. (something which DID happen.)

You're so funny.


Oh...btw..."straw man argument"--YOU should look up the meaning.

Posted on: 2010/1/23 6:53
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Re: Cuban letter writer is upset: Che Guevara used in Hard Grove Cafe ad
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JerseyCityPower wrote:
No, Dirt.. there was NO straw man argument.

I repeatedly ASKED you a question ....if you denounced the right-wing Cuban's terror attack on US soil against the United Nations buliding.

YOU said NOTHING...and still refuse to completely answer THAT question.

It's really quite simple:

Do you condemn the right-wing Cubans' use of missles to attack the United Nations at which Che Guevara was speaking? Yes...or NO?


Again. I've answered your question. And it was a straw man's argument because it was irrelevant to my point. Logic should've given you the answer without me spelling it out for you.

Posted on: 2010/1/23 6:44
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Re: Cuban letter writer is upset: Che Guevara used in Hard Grove Cafe ad
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No, Dirt.. there was NO straw man argument.

I repeatedly ASKED you a question ....if you denounced the right-wing Cuban's terror attack on US soil against the United Nations buliding.

YOU said NOTHING...and still refuse to completely answer THAT question.

It's really quite simple:

Do you condemn the right-wing Cubans' use of missles to attack the United Nations at which Che Guevara was speaking? Yes...or NO?

Posted on: 2010/1/23 6:41
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Re: Cuban letter writer is upset: Che Guevara used in Hard Grove Cafe ad
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JerseyCityPower wrote:
AGAIN......

Dirt......So, Do YOU...condemn the right-wing Cubans' act of terrorism?

Yes or NO?


Let's use some logic. If I oppose someone saying that they WOULD use violence against innocent people if they could, then clearly I oppose violence against innocent people. It's painfully obvious and it goes without saying. There was nothing that I previously said that would suggest otherwise.

So nice attempt at a straw man argument, but one thing you're not going to get me on is consistency. Clearly, my actual point still stands.

Posted on: 2010/1/23 6:33
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Re: Cuban letter writer is upset: Che Guevara used in Hard Grove Cafe ad
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Br6dR wrote:
Quote:

JerseyCityPower wrote:
One person's FREEDOM FIGHTER is another's "terrorist".

Who benifits from the oppression and blockade on CUBA?

Would our 'founding fathers' (and sisters) be considered 'terrorists' by the British?

The very troops being supported NOW---are THEY not killing in Iraq and Afghanistan and torturing (at Guantanamo--IN CUBA)?



Thoughts to ponder while you sit comfortably at your computer.


What I ponder while I sit comfortably at my computer is that leftists are as one sided and narrow minded as the far right. They both see what they want to see and disregard the rest. (I must be drunk, I'm channeling Paul Simon.) I see little difference between the far left and the far right. In fact, I think they're one and the same. (That's why no one goes from the far left or right to the center. When they switch philosophies they go from one extreme to the other.)

Ridding the Middle East of Christians is not being a "FREEDOM FIGHTER", it's being a right wing assh*le. (And I'm an atheist.)

Murdering women and children is not being a "FREEDOM FIGHTER", it's being the Middle East version of a right wing lunatic.

But you champion their cause because the enemy of your enemy is...


Right. My only caveat is that there is no left or right. There's only people who value freedom and people who want to use coercion and violence to achieve their goals. Both the far left and the far right fall in the latter category; they are no different from each other.

Posted on: 2010/1/23 6:30
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Re: Cuban letter writer is upset: Che Guevara used in Hard Grove Cafe ad
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The far left and far right COULD NOT be MORE different.

YOU have an OBAMA 'bug' at the bottom of your post!

I cant see much difference between DEMOCRATS and REPUBLICANS.....(really a two-headed MONSTER)

Obama is the same as BUSH.
Wake up and smell the sham.

Posted on: 2010/1/23 6:30
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Re: Cuban letter writer is upset: Che Guevara used in Hard Grove Cafe ad
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Quote:

JerseyCityPower wrote:
One person's FREEDOM FIGHTER is another's "terrorist".

Who benifits from the oppression and blockade on CUBA?

Would our 'founding fathers' (and sisters) be considered 'terrorists' by the British?

The very troops being supported NOW---are THEY not killing in Iraq and Afghanistan and torturing (at Guantanamo--IN CUBA)?



Thoughts to ponder while you sit comfortably at your computer.


What I ponder while I sit comfortably at my computer is that leftists are as one sided and narrow minded as the far right. They both see what they want to see and disregard the rest. (I must be drunk, I'm channeling Paul Simon.) I see little difference between the far left and the far right. In fact, I think they're one and the same. (That's why no one goes from the far left or right to the center. When they switch philosophies they go from one extreme to the other.)

Ridding the Middle East of Christians is not being a "FREEDOM FIGHTER", it's being a right wing assh*le. (And I'm an atheist.)

Murdering women and children is not being a "FREEDOM FIGHTER", it's being the Middle East version of a right wing lunatic.

But you champion their cause because the enemy of your enemy is...

Posted on: 2010/1/23 6:15
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Re: Cuban letter writer is upset: Che Guevara used in Hard Grove Cafe ad
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Hard Grove really does suck ass, and the service is abysmal. I haven't been there in a very long time and will continue to stay away. I miss the old place.

Posted on: 2010/1/23 5:51
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Re: Cuban letter writer is upset: Che Guevara used in Hard Grove Cafe ad
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One person's FREEDOM FIGHTER is another's "terrorist".

Who benifits from the oppression and blockade on CUBA?

Would our 'founding fathers' (and sisters) be considered 'terrorists' by the British?

The very troops being supported NOW---are THEY not killing in Iraq and Afghanistan and torturing (at Guantanamo--IN CUBA)?



Thoughts to ponder while you sit comfortably at your computer.

Posted on: 2010/1/23 5:27
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Re: Cuban letter writer is upset: Che Guevara used in Hard Grove Cafe ad
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you guys are both wrong, as an insider i know the truth.
Hard Grove Cafe is actually a huge supporter of Zach De la Rocha. The ad was a picture of him, but it was blown up too big by the newspaper, so just his shirt appeared in the ad.

Posted on: 2010/1/22 22:51
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Re: Cuban letter writer is upset: Che Guevara used in Hard Grove Cafe ad
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AGAIN......

Dirt......So, Do YOU...condemn the right-wing Cubans' act of terrorism?

Yes or NO?

Posted on: 2010/1/22 6:05
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Re: Cuban letter writer is upset: Che Guevara used in Hard Grove Cafe ad
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Loopy wrote:

"So keep defending someone who wanted to killed innocent people. Fixed."


How many innocents were slaughtered under the Bush 1 regime alone-- in Iraq?

500,000 CHILDREN murdered in IRAQ (due to ILLEGAL sanctions) alone. This is from United Nation figures.

WHO killed 'innocents'...WHO?

Che NEVER attacked USA! NEVER.

However ultra-right-wing Cubans DID try to kill Che and others by firing MISSLES at the UNITED NATIONS in the late 60's. A FACT!

THAT WAS an ACT OF TERRORISM.

I have YET to hear Loopy, or DirtMcGirt condemn those Cuban terror attacks on US soil.

Posted on: 2010/1/21 2:42
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Re: Cuban letter writer is upset: Che Guevara used in Hard Grove Cafe ad
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Quote:

1djcview wrote:
Quote:

Br6dR wrote:
Quote:

1djcview wrote:
Quote:

Br6dR wrote:
I agree that communism was a bad answer to the Batista regime but we'd be a lot closer to ending communism in Cuba if Cuban Americans would allow free trade with Cuba.

OK, I stopped laughing.
Cuban Americans don't run our government.


They don't? I guess you were so busy braying you didn't notice that Florida has been a key swing state in presidential elections.

I'll spell it out:

U.S. federal positions on international, State Department issues are not dictated by Cuban Americans.

Another way of saying it is:

While Cuban Americans have influence on (not control of) some Florida politics, they are not responsible for the U.S. government's relationship with Cuba.


I'll spell it out:

Wait, I already did.

Posted on: 2010/1/20 21:11
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Re: Cuban letter writer is upset: Che Guevara used in Hard Grove Cafe ad
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Quote:

Br6dR wrote:
Quote:

1djcview wrote:
Quote:

Br6dR wrote:
I agree that communism was a bad answer to the Batista regime but we'd be a lot closer to ending communism in Cuba if Cuban Americans would allow free trade with Cuba.

OK, I stopped laughing.
Cuban Americans don't run our government.


They don't? I guess you were so busy braying you didn't notice that Florida has been a key swing state in presidential elections.

I'll spell it out:

U.S. federal positions on international, State Department issues are not dictated by Cuban Americans.

Another way of saying it is:

While Cuban Americans have influence on (not control of) some Florida politics, they are not responsible for the U.S. government's relationship with Cuba.

Posted on: 2010/1/20 19:06
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Re: Cuban letter writer is upset: Che Guevara used in Hard Grove Cafe ad
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DirtMcGirt wrote:
Quote:

JerseyCityPower wrote:
THE ABOVE POSTER WROTE:
"If Che had it his way, he would have *NUKED* New York City during the Cuban Missile Crisis."

Well, Che Guevara...didn't do that.



Only because he couldn't. So keep defending someone who wanted to kill innocent people.


So keep defending someone who wanted to killed innocent people.

Fixed.

Posted on: 2010/1/20 17:33
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Re: Cuban letter writer is upset: Che Guevara used in Hard Grove Cafe ad
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ambar35 wrote:

And today hundreds of Cuban doctors are working in Haiti with the same spirit and with no demands for insurance cards or co-payments.



semi-wrong. its an exchange program Cuba has between Haiti so Cuban doctors can do their residency and training (they do this with African countries too) and in exchange Cuba gets labor from Haiti for their government fields (usually sugar). Haitians are allowed to send their wages (after deductions ofcourse) back to their families. Cuban doctors are ofcourse paid by the state (Cuban government). It's been going on for years and a solution based system.

It has nothing to do with "Che".

Posted on: 2010/1/20 16:38
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Re: Cuban letter writer is upset: Che Guevara used in Hard Grove Cafe ad
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Quote:

Br6dR wrote:
I agree that communism was a bad answer to the Batista regime but we'd be a lot closer to ending communism in Cuba if Cuban Americans would allow free trade with Cuba.

OK, I stopped laughing.
Cuban Americans don't run our government.


They don't? I guess you were so busy braying you didn't notice that Florida has been a key swing state in presidential elections.

Posted on: 2010/1/20 14:11
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Re: Cuban letter writer is upset: Che Guevara used in Hard Grove Cafe ad
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ambar35 wrote:
The fact is Che is a political icon throughout the world. Che means struggle for your rights by any means necessary. A true internationalist he fought in Cuba, the Congo and Bolivia.

A generation later Cuban internationalists - with the spirit of Che - broke the back of apartheid South Africa as freedom fighters in Angola.

And today hundreds of Cuban doctors are working in Haiti with the same spirit and with no demands for insurance cards or co-payments.

As for the right-wing Cubans - just take a look at Union City and West New York politics over the last 30 years!


Killing innocent people is part of "any means necessary"? I don't see that as necessary.

Posted on: 2010/1/20 13:32
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