I was a student of Lloyd's and remember when this happened. I was not aware of how things turned out with his suit so I am very happy to learn of this here.

Great man, I miss his influence.
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My friend, Lloyd McNeil, flautist, poet, photographer, professor, artist/painter was shooting in WSQ Park in the Village, when they were doing a round up of suspected dealers, arrested him and busted his Hasselblad. He successfully sued them for a settlement of $10k that made all the papers.

BTW: This topic will likely be moved to "NOT Jersey City" as it doesn't belong in "General Discussion". All threads here that do not discuss JC belong in that forum.

Quote:Great post. I learned a lot. Thanks.

freedom to take pics in public places is our right, just like it is law enforcement's right to install CCTV camera's in public places.

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Hear hear. And since we're extrapolating, I'll bet he's got a bomb making factory in his apartment. Punks like this need to be sent to Bahrain for an attitude adjustment. And then on to Guantanamo if he still hasn't learned to keep quit and submit to authority.

If the cops were serious about this issue then they would go after every photograher, video dude that has an image on Google 'images' and 'video' - it wasn't all that long ago when we had video footage of a guy riding his bike through the Holland tunnel.
NY as a whole is a tourist precinct and people will always take photos, I think this photo / video deal with the subway is stupid.

I would love to be arrested by a dumb-ass cop and sue the city and them personally if possible!

In 1992, while working for a Manhattan newspaper, I interviewed and photographed Presidential Candidate Bill Clinton when his supporters opened a campaign storefront up in Washington Heights around 181st St. Afterwards, someone gave me a ride further downtown and dropped me off at the subway station near Columbia. I was headed back to the newsroom.

As the train approached 86th Street, the train stopped a few yards short of the platform and the conductor announced that police were boarding at the first car. We would move ahead and open the doors of one car at time to let passengers off, as the police searched each car for a person causing a disturbance.

I was in one of the first cars. I stepped out on the platform, pulled my NYPD Press Credentials from under my shirt so they were visible and got my camera ready to shoot whatever might happen as cars further along in the train were opened.

A few cars down, three cops brought a young man out onto the platform in handcuffs. As they headed my way I began shooting. I had ultra high speed black and white film so I did not need flash.

As they neared, one of the cops demanded that I stop shooting. He had no right to make that demand so I simply brought up my press credentials and made sure he saw them. I continued to shoot.

That really pissed him off. He handed the prisoner off to the other cops, came up in my face and told me I was under arrest.

One of the other cops told him to leave it go, and mentioned the press pass. But the cop persisted, put me in cuffs and had me sit on a nearby bench. He gave me a ticket for violating a law that prohibited photos in the subway. On subsequent reading of the law, I learned it specifically and clearly exempted credentialed press engaged in the gathering of news.

I was given a summons to appear in court. He didn\'t confiscate my equipment.

As soon as he released me I went directly to the office of Ellis Hennigan at New York Newsday, the only reporter in the city with the subway as his beat.

The next day the brown stuff hit the electrically-powered revolving air-moving device.

It was a slow day. So the story got the top half of Page 3 the following morning. Before Noon, Three television stations showed up at my newsroom and interviewed me about \"the violation of your First Amendment Rights.\" They all ran it on both the early and late evening news programs.

By co-incidence, the same day that Newsday ran the story about my arrest, the NY Post\'s front page and page 3 had the story of a woman who had been arrested at another station on the same line, that same day, for the same offense of the same law. She too was featured on all the local TV news programs that night.

She was not a journo. She had been telling the TA for a long time that there were bare live electric wires in easy reach of an accidental touch along the stairs at her local station (I think it was 86th).

In frustration that her warnings were ignored for a long time, she took photos of the dangerous situation. This was before digital cameras. A few days later she brought the prints to the office of the TA - and they had her arrested, given a summons and released.

More brown stuff moving at high speed.

The next morning, the TA sent a uniformed officer with a ton of brass on his hat and collar to my newsroom with a formal letter of apology, a quashing of the summons and a promise that the law, while it would remain on the books, would be ignored. I understand the vigilant woman got a similar visit and letter.

It was maybe 5 years later, in one of those small world co-incidences, while working on a current story, I was talking on the street with a plain-clothes cop and he suddenly asked, \"Did I ever arrest you?\"

I said I don\'t think so.

\"Well, have you ever been arrested?\"

Since I didn\'t think he was likely to know of my arrest at the Chicago Dem Convention in \'68, I admitted only to the subway thing.

\"That\'s where I know you from. I was one of the officers holding the pickpocket at the 86th Street Station when my partner arrested you. I told him not to do it but he was pig-headed.\"

I learned that the incident was put in his official jacket. He had other incidents of over-zealousness. Within a short while, after only 2 years on the force, he was out.

On researching the original excuse for the law, I learned it went back to the day when the only lighting for photography was the explosive powder in a tray that you may have seen in old movies. The law was intended to prevent an accident due to temporarily blinding a motorman or disorienting people on the platform and causing them to fall onto the tracks.

The current excuse is the nonsense about terrorists. As if there are not already literally millions of photos already in circulation of just about every transit system in the world. As if anyone with a common cell phone cannot surreptitiously take pix and videos while pretending to use a mobile phone.

I hope this latest victim sues their asses off.

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I put the word in quotes because some articles say he was cuffed and some didn't mention it, so I'm not sure if it's speculation or not. Please don't call me darling.

This has been a topic of debate amongst many of my friends and colleagues. I was curious to see what people think about this on jclist.

Personally, I find it annoying that the cops need to step in on a photoshoot and ask to see your paperwork. But, i understand where they come from, and respect the times that we live in. The cops are just trying to do their job.

I'm a little pissed at this kid for creating such a media craze trying to make this a race issue, when myself, and many friends who are white have been stopped by police for the same reason.

I'm curious to hear the details of the arrest...
Any artist, student or professional knows that you cannot shoot in NYC on a tripod or with certain equipment without a permit. Photo permits in NY are very easy to get, it's not that big of a deal, esp. if you are a student. It's kind of idiotic, and seems shady. Besides the fact that everyone knows you can't film subway trains. If you are planning to shoot over 300 subway stations in ten days, wouldn't you look into the legality of such a big plan?

I'd be curious to see the details of the arrest. Did the kid cooperate, or was it another, "Don't tase me, bro" type of a stunt? I can see this playing out that the police approached him, and he reacted in a uncooperative manner. I've seen this happen before, where the cops will stop you and ask to see your photos. But, just as a traffic stop, if you start giving the cop lip, or start acting suspicious, or try to run, they will assume that you are up to something. Now I wasn't there, so i can't say how the kid reacted, but no article seems to mention it at all.

I agree that people shouldn't be able to take pictures of the subway system without a permit, but it might help if the city put up some signs to keep idiots like this guy from getting themselves into trouble.

Curious why the the original poster chose to put the word "arrest" in quotes in the subject line of the post.

If you'd like to editorialize, brian darling, we're all ears. Do try to be a man about it.

NYPD sued for arrest of student photographer
Civil Liberties Union charges police targeted him because of race
by joshua rhett miller / metro new york

DEC 7, 2007
MANHATTAN. The New York Civil Liberties Union sued the NYPD Thursday, alleging that officers unlawfully handcuffed a Columbia University graduate student who was photographing a Manhattan subway station.

According to the suit, which was filed in U.S. District Court in Manhattan, Arun Wiita, 26, was detained in July after an officer spotted him using a digital camera near 207th Street and Tenth Avenue. Wiita, of New Jersey, is seeking compensatory damages and reimbursement of legal fees.

?Mr. Wiita?s arrest came within hours of his having embarked upon a carefully planned 10-day project to photograph all 468 subway stations,? the lawsuit read. ?Though he was subsequently released without formal charges, Mr. Wiita was humiliated and confused by the arrest, and he believes that he was targeted in part because of his South Asian or Middle Eastern appearance.?

The lawsuit marks the second time the NYCLU has challenged the way the city interacts with photographers. The city reached a settlement earlier this year with award-winning documentarian Rakesh Sharma, who was detained for filming with a handheld camera on a Manhattan street.

?In our society, people have a clear right to document activity in public places without being hassled by the police,? said Donna Lieberman, NYCLU executive director.

Police sources said officers question people photographing the city?s rail infrastructure on ?rare occasions,? citing instances in which law enforcement officials have identified men taking photographs of city bridges and subways as Iranian intelligence agents and suspected Pakistani terrorists who were stopped by police while taking pictures of the Brooklyn and Williamsburg bridges.

?I was surprised and upset that I could be handcuffed on the street for taking a photograph,? Wiita said. ?What was really disheartening was that I knew this has probably happened before and that it could happen again to anyone.?