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Re: Payroll & politics: Jersey City hiring top Democrats who could boost Fulop
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T-Bird wrote:
Between your mangling of grammar and the extreme narrowness of your thinking, it still amazes me you were a teacher. Sure, there probably are some examples of condos under abatement who have a relatively better deal than a handful of other condos that aren't. A lot of that has to do with timing - if you bought in a decent (or better) market your purchase price is going to be higher (on a per s.f. basis) and, thus, your abatement is going to be higher. The opposite is true as well.

People don't give up their abatement just because the economics of paying traditional taxes might be better. They keep the abatement because of the certainty that they won't be exposed to future tax increases, including - should the day ever come that a mayor with a spine and compassion ever comes along - a reval.


I have always said people with nothing positive to say go for personal attacks. You, T-Bird is an example of this saying. Plus, you are wrong, people have given up abatements and the city council have granted those requests.

Posted on: 2015/5/25 17:05
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Re: Payroll & politics: Jersey City hiring top Democrats who could boost Fulop
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Between your mangling of grammar and the extreme narrowness of your thinking, it still amazes me you were a teacher. Sure, there probably are some examples of condos under abatement who have a relatively better deal than a handful of other condos that aren't. A lot of that has to do with timing - if you bought in a decent (or better) market your purchase price is going to be higher (on a per s.f. basis) and, thus, your abatement is going to be higher. The opposite is true as well.

People don't give up their abatement just because the economics of paying traditional taxes might be better. They keep the abatement because of the certainty that they won't be exposed to future tax increases, including - should the day ever come that a mayor with a spine and compassion ever comes along - a reval.

Posted on: 2015/5/25 16:11
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Re: Payroll & politics: Jersey City hiring top Democrats who could boost Fulop
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Walters wrote:
Folks who live in $1,000,000.00 homes in Essex , Bergen , Union or even Monmouth Co's would be thrilled to pay $16,000 in taxes annually . Their tax bills in many cases are closer to double that amout . BTW , T-Bird where in my OP do I state that PILOTS are NOT a form of revenue ?


The last sentence of my post wasn't intended for you - it was to Yvonne who plays this same stupid game over and over and over, pretending that somehow people paying PILOTs are getting over. Yes, the schools get shortchanged, but that's an allocation problem, not a payment problem.

No one is talking about Essex an Bergen counties. People paying PILOTs are typically paying more per year than traditional taxpaying homeowners downtown. That's what my comment was addressing.


Amazingly, the candidates of the 31st District attacked abatements as the root of the budget problem. And you are wrong, people paying pilots are getting a good deal. Just compare the taxes at Canco (abated) compared to Brunswick or other condos in the area. Besides using your logic, if an abated property is paying more taxes then have the abatement cancelled. That can be done. After the 1988 reval, some abatements were cancelled by the city council because taxes dropped in the area.

Posted on: 2015/5/25 12:38

Edited by Yvonne on 2015/5/25 12:54:33
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Re: Payroll & politics: Jersey City hiring top Democrats who could boost Fulop
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DanL wrote:
wow this faded quickly ... it was front page in the Star Ledger and not a peep here or anywhere else, I guess we really do not deserve anything better.



I think that about sums it up, Dan. Even in a "high turnout" election, 70% of the people still don't show up to vote. It really is in the water here.

Yes - Fulop is selling off anything that isn't nailed down in order to make future friends, but he's just emulating a model that has worked elsewhere many times over. Wait until the sea wall project gets momentum, the political goody bag will be so big that it will seem like Santa Claus is running city hall.

Posted on: 2015/5/25 3:02
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Re: Payroll & politics: Jersey City hiring top Democrats who could boost Fulop
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Walters wrote:
Folks who live in $1,000,000.00 homes in Essex , Bergen , Union or even Monmouth Co's would be thrilled to pay $16,000 in taxes annually . Their tax bills in many cases are closer to double that amout . BTW , T-Bird where in my OP do I state that PILOTS are NOT a form of revenue ?


The last sentence of my post wasn't intended for you - it was to Yvonne who plays this same stupid game over and over and over, pretending that somehow people paying PILOTs are getting over. Yes, the schools get shortchanged, but that's an allocation problem, not a payment problem.

No one is talking about Essex an Bergen counties. People paying PILOTs are typically paying more per year than traditional taxpaying homeowners downtown. That's what my comment was addressing.

Posted on: 2015/5/25 2:55
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Re: Payroll & politics: Jersey City hiring top Democrats who could boost Fulop
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wow this faded quickly ... it was front page in the Star Ledger and not a peep here or anywhere else, I guess we really do not deserve anything better.


Posted on: 2015/5/25 1:13
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Re: Payroll & politics: Jersey City hiring top Democrats who could boost Fulop
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Walters wrote:
Folks who live in $1,000,000.00 homes in Essex , Bergen , Union or even Monmouth Co's would be thrilled to pay $16,000 in taxes annually . Their tax bills in many cases are closer to double that amout . BTW , T-Bird where in my OP do I state that PILOTS are NOT a form of revenue ?


The 2010 census had the average income around $55,000 which means there are many of folks which makes less than that amount. Some of these $55,000 or less income folks also own homes, let's be realistic. Our property taxes do not indicate our ability to pay. Our government should be mindful of this and stop throwing non-bidding contracts to their friends. By the way in 2013, 2,300 homeowners were in tax lien.

Posted on: 2015/5/21 14:41
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Re: Payroll & politics: Jersey City hiring top Democrats who could boost Fulop
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Folks who live in $1,000,000.00 homes in Essex , Bergen , Union or even Monmouth Co's would be thrilled to pay $16,000 in taxes annually . Their tax bills in many cases are closer to double that amout . BTW , T-Bird where in my OP do I state that PILOTS are NOT a form of revenue ?

Posted on: 2015/5/21 13:00
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Re: Payroll & politics: Jersey City hiring top Democrats who could boost Fulop
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Have you seen the 2015 budget? We are paying for tons of lawyers on the payroll! Are these lawyers incompetent? No, many have been with the city for a long time. It is basically pay to play. If this was Healy, everyone here would be all over Healy attacking him for these contracts. Thanks Dan L for your comments.

Posted on: 2015/5/21 12:50
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Re: Payroll & politics: Jersey City hiring top Democrats who could boost Fulop
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Contracts for legal services are not bid. State purchasing law stipulates that legal services are exempt from the bid process.

Posted on: 2015/5/21 3:28
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Re: Payroll & politics: Jersey City hiring top Democrats who could boost Fulop
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These same law, brokerage, and consulting firms provide these services to cities whether or not their mayors are running for Governor, so I think the article's conclusion is a bit lazy, as are some of the accusers.

The real issue is how can we open up the contracting process so that these services are not limited to the universe of politically connected firms.

But the article seems to be saying that when the city replaces a prior firm with a new one it's "more of the same" because the new firm has political connections. And if the city keeps a former vendor that supported the Healy administration it's "more of the same" because it's, well, the same.

There can definitely be improvements in how these contracts are bid. But I also suspect that even under a transparent and "clean" system the bidders will remain the usual suspects.

Posted on: 2015/5/21 2:51
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Re: Payroll & politics: Jersey City hiring top Democrats who could boost Fulop
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cat got everyone's collective tongue?

Posted on: 2015/5/21 2:38
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Re: Payroll & politics: Jersey City hiring top Democrats who could boost Fulop
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I have seen Paterson's 2014 budget. The abatements paid 1/3 or less compared to what the properties would have paid at regular taxes. But let's wait for the city to produce the numbers. In the past when I requested this information, the city said this cannot be done; however, the city cannot say that to the Department of Community Affairs in Trenton which has oversight over the budget.

Posted on: 2015/5/20 23:43
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Re: Payroll & politics: Jersey City hiring top Democrats who could boost Fulop
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Walters wrote:
Do we know exactly where and how much the Payment In Leu Of Taxes are going ? Or is that a silly question to ask of Jersey City :)


PILOT payments are a line item in the budget, same as property taxes. They are part of the general funds of the city. Typically, someone with a PILOT is paying roughly 1.6% of the initial purchase price each year. So, someone who buys a condo (new) for $1 million is going to pay $16,000 a year - a heck of a lot more than people who live in $1,000,000 brownstones are paying in property taxes.

To say that PILOT revenues are not a source of funding available to the city to service debt is ignorance, pure and simple.

Posted on: 2015/5/20 23:20
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Re: Payroll & politics: Jersey City hiring top Democrats who could boost Fulop
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Walters wrote:
Do we know exactly where and how much the Payment In Leu Of Taxes are going ? Or is that a silly question to ask of Jersey City :)


Last year, the state change the rules on pilots, Paterson was a test city for this change. Paterson had a few abatements, it showed taxes collected from the abatement and taxes collected if not abated. JC is now under this mandate. I asked about this at the budget hearing because the budget did not show this. I was promised it will come out soon. I am still waiting... In terms of who pay the debt, approximately two thirds of the city received a non-abated tax bill that is roughly 35,000 taxpayers. The other 1/3 either has an agreement which some pay nothing because they are allowed to deduct their utilities. (The city council gave this right to the seniors at Padua Housing on May 13, 2015, now they have more money to gamble at AC.) Others have a fixed amount some with bump ups. So that eight hundred million bond debt is basically on the backs on the 35,000 regular taxpayers. I call that scary.

Posted on: 2015/5/20 19:47
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Re: Payroll & politics: Jersey City hiring top Democrats who could boost Fulop
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Do we know exactly where and how much the Payment In Leu Of Taxes are going ? Or is that a silly question to ask of Jersey City :)

Posted on: 2015/5/20 18:31
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Re: Payroll & politics: Jersey City hiring top Democrats who could boost Fulop
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Walters wrote:
Spending money to promote growth is what good government should be doing . But in the case of Jersey City much of the tax revenue from the 20,000 new residents will not show up for 20 to 30 yrs , it's been given away as abatements . I'm not so sure that abatments were needed to promote development . Other factors that Jersey City will address in the future ( long after the current mayor has moved on ) is the revaluation of it's 5 wards and whether on not in a different political climate or due to State wide economic stress the underwriting of JC's public school system by the State.


This doesn't apply to all abatements, but the thing that most people don't understand is that while an abatement and PILOT applies, 100% of that revenue is going to Jersey City, while conventional property taxes are shared by the county and state, as Jersey City claims to only receive about 45 cents on the dollar of property taxes.

Posted on: 2015/5/20 18:16
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Re: Payroll & politics: Jersey City hiring top Democrats who could boost Fulop
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Spending money to promote growth is what good government should be doing . But in the case of Jersey City much of the tax revenue from the 20,000 new residents will not show up for 20 to 30 yrs , it's been given away as abatements . I'm not so sure that abatments were needed to promote development . Other factors that Jersey City will address in the future ( long after the current mayor has moved on ) is the revaluation of it's 5 wards and whether on not in a different political climate or due to State wide economic stress the underwriting of JC's public school system by the State.

Posted on: 2015/5/20 17:44
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Re: Payroll & politics: Jersey City hiring top Democrats who could boost Fulop
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Yvonne wrote:

Annoying? I would say expensive, the city has been bonding for things that should come from the operating expense. We carry around $800 million in bond debt. The city cannot afford Fulop's political ambition.


In government, at least, debt always accompanies extreme growth. It's most efficient to borrow now in order to attract 20,000 new, wealthier residents and then use their tax dollars to repay the debt. Again, not saying that everything Fulop is doing is the right move for JC residents, present and future, but debt can be a good thing for a growing, gentrifying city.

Posted on: 2015/5/20 16:58
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Re: Payroll & politics: Jersey City hiring top Democrats who could boost Fulop
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JcDevil wrote:
These sorts of things might be annoying, but they're politics as usual. My problem with Fulop's obvious Governor bid is that there is work to be done as mayor that he doesn't want to do because it will piss off the rest of the state. NJ as a whole doesn't care about NJ Transit light rail funding, or about PATH funding, but these sorts of things are essential to his current constituents.


Annoying? I would say expensive, the city has been bonding for things that should come from the operating expense. We carry around $800 million in bond debt. The city cannot afford Fulop's political ambition.

Posted on: 2015/5/20 16:42
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Re: Payroll & politics: Jersey City hiring top Democrats who could boost Fulop
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Yvonne wrote:
So Mayor Fulop is using our tax dollars in terms of contracts to win the governor's seat. He stopped the council from using public cars so the council should stop these contracts, but I doubt they will.


The problem is that the typical council person isn't sophisticated enough to recognize a contract that has political benefits attached to it. No knock on the council - knowing who the power brokers in various counties around the state isn't really relevant to the their task at hand. And the administration certainly isn't going to point it out.

It is politics as usual, as noted below - which makes the adminisyration's insanely hyperbolic response so bizarre. Some five-figure contract to a second-rate firm run by a political hack is "an affront to our democratic nation"? Steve, Bob - dial it back a little. You're making my eyes bleed!

(The Cryan step-daughter thing is not only equally over the top,
It's also kind of dumb. The follow-up questions on whether she is being employed based on her merits should be "Okay, so can you tell me about the hiring process? How did you provide public notice for the position? How many other candidates were there? What stood out about the one you selected?)

Posted on: 2015/5/20 16:41
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Re: Payroll & politics: Jersey City hiring top Democrats who could boost Fulop
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These sorts of things might be annoying, but they're politics as usual. My problem with Fulop's obvious Governor bid is that there is work to be done as mayor that he doesn't want to do because it will piss off the rest of the state. NJ as a whole doesn't care about NJ Transit light rail funding, or about PATH funding, but these sorts of things are essential to his current constituents.

Posted on: 2015/5/20 16:30
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Re: Payroll & politics: Jersey City hiring top Democrats who could boost Fulop
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So Mayor Fulop is using our tax dollars in terms of contracts to win the governor's seat. He stopped the council from using public cars so the council should stop these contracts, but I doubt they will.

Posted on: 2015/5/20 15:52
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Payroll & politics: Jersey City hiring top Democrats who could boost Fulop
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Matt Friedman | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com

Jersey City Mayor Steve Fulop, who took office in July 2013, has made it no secret that he's considering a run for governor in 2017.

Such a campaign requires lots of help from the Democratic Party's powerful leaders in what promises to be a highly contested primary for New Jersey's most coveted political job.

Some of that help could come from those on Jersey City's payroll ? or their relatives and associates.

Since Fulop became mayor, records show the city has awarded contracts to at least nine politically connected firms and has hired Democratic elected officials with ties to powerful county organizations ? individuals and firms who could be well-positioned to aid him in the party's gubernatorial primary.

An examination of city council minutes and other public documents by NJ Advance Media shows that firms and individuals closely tied to Democratic officials or prominent insiders in seven key counties have received contracts or jobs from the city and its agencies that were worth as much as a combined $1.7 million

In addition, three elected officials from outside Jersey City ? and a relative of another ? have gotten jobs with the city.

Combined, the seven counties ? Bergen, Essex, Hudson, Middlesex, Passaic, Union and Somerset ? have 1 million of the state's 1.8 million registered Democrats. That's pivotal not only in the primary, but in a general election in which Democrats feel they are primed to win back the governor's seat.


Story

Posted on: 2015/5/20 14:43
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