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Re: Live in the area of 9th St/Pavonia between Erie & Manila? New Development Plans Will Impact You!
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this is now a problem because City Planning and the Planning Board did not ensure that there was input from the surounding area and neighborhood association when making (rubber stamping) changes made in April 2005 that for the most part now give the developer right to build what they are proposing.

a side note, this is also an illustration of our city using the Schools Contruction Corp as an excuse to abdicate complete responsibilty for planning the future educational facilities needs of our city....and letting this property go when it could have provided a school yard for PS37 Cordero School.

Posted on: 2007/10/24 13:43
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Re: HEARING NOTICE re: 209 9th Street (former firehouse)
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Steve Fulop arranged a quick meeting betwen the developer and concerned residents. The item was taken off the agenda.

The developer will present his plans at the next Hamilton Park Neighborhood Association meeting on at 7:45pm, November 7, 2007 at the Cordero school on Erie Street.

This will be a good opportunity to ask questions and voice concerns.

Posted on: 2007/10/24 0:14
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Re: HEARING NOTICE re: 209 9th Street (former firehouse)
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Residents, with the support of the Hamilton Park Neighborhood Association and Ward E Councilman Steve Fulop, plan to ask the planning board at a meeting tonight at 5:30 to delay approval of the project. The board meets in the City Council chambers in City Hall.

Quote:

Tuesday, October 23, 2007
By KEENAN STEINER
JOURNAL STAFF WRITER


A square block of residents near Hamilton Park in Jersey City say they were blindsided by a zoning change, and now object to the design of a proposed five-story building because they think it doesn't fit into the neighborhood.

Residents, with the support of the Hamilton Park Neighborhood Association and Ward E Councilman Steve Fulop, plan to ask the planning board at a meeting tonight at 5:30 to delay approval of the project. The board meets in the City Council chambers in City Hall.

Wendy Tom of Pavonia Avenue and her neighbors on the square block of the proposed building, on Ninth Street between Erie Street and Manila Avenue, say the proposed multi-family building is too tall, takes up too much of its lot and will cause traffic problems.

Now an empty lot, the plan calls for a 60-foot building that covers 85 percent of its lot, which doesn't jive with the single-family homes around it, Tom said.

Tom and her neighbors wants the developer, 209 Ninth Street LLC, to meet with residents and hopefully make some changes.

Consultation hasn't happened because the project was initially approved without notifying the community, due to what Fulop says is a loophole in the law that needs to be closed.

Residents on the square block only found out about the building 10 days ago, when the planning board notified them that the developer wants to make changes to the project.

? 2007 The Jersey Journal
? 2007 NJ.com All Rights Reserved.

Posted on: 2007/10/23 21:11
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Re: HEARING NOTICE re: 209 9th Street (former firehouse)
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Residents near Hamilton Park want delay on OK for five-story building
Tuesday, October 23, 2007
By KEENAN STEINER
JOURNAL STAFF WRITER


A square block of residents near Hamilton Park in Jersey City say they were blindsided by a zoning change, and now object to the design of a proposed five-story building because they think it doesn't fit into the neighborhood.

Residents, with the support of the Hamilton Park Neighborhood Association and Ward E Councilman Steve Fulop, plan to ask the planning board at a meeting tonight at 5:30 to delay approval of the project. The board meets in the City Council chambers in City Hall.

Wendy Tom of Pavonia Avenue and her neighbors on the square block of the proposed building, on Ninth Street between Erie Street and Manila Avenue, say the proposed multi-family building is too tall, takes up too much of its lot and will cause traffic problems.

Now an empty lot, the plan calls for a 60-foot building that covers 85 percent of its lot, which doesn't jive with the single-family homes around it, Tom said.

Tom and her neighbors wants the developer, 209 Ninth Street LLC, to meet with residents and hopefully make some changes.

Consultation hasn't happened because the project was initially approved without notifying the community, due to what Fulop says is a loophole in the law that needs to be closed.

Residents on the square block only found out about the building 10 days ago, when the planning board notified them that the developer wants to make changes to the project.

? 2007 The Jersey Journal
? 2007 NJ.com All Rights Reserved.

Posted on: 2007/10/23 13:06
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Re: HEARING NOTICE re: 209 9th Street (former firehouse)
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Quote:

michelesan wrote:

Long story short, we need community support at a hearing scheduled for:

Tuesday, October 23, 5:30 PM
280 Grove St (City Hall)
Council Chambers, 2nd Floor

As a group, we need as many bodies as possible to make it clear to the Planning Board that the community wants and needs more time to review the building plans, and address its concerns in a one-on-one meeting with the developer. (given only 10 day notice was given on a limited basis to only 24 townhomes of the hearing, and not to the remaining community impacted).

PLEASE we need your support -- beyond petitions and JClist posts -- Steve Fulop made it clear that a showing of faces to the planning board will emphasize that the impact to all of us as residents (traffic, pollution, and MOST importantly testing and certifications regarding the former Chromium dump on this property) is a concern and will help us make the case to postpone approval of the developer's Application for Development to begin ground-breaking.

We have Steve Fulop's support on this, and he will be in attendance at the meeting! We hope to see you there! If you can't attend, please send a friend!!




Just a reminder for anyone concerned

Posted on: 2007/10/23 12:11
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Re: HEARING NOTICE re: 209 9th Street (former firehouse)
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I suggest you contact the management companies/boards /tenant's associations of the buildings on 9th and tenth or leave flyers at the neighboring buildings.

Please note that your neighbors in block 252 (other side of Ninth Street) are also affected by this.

Posted on: 2007/10/19 17:28
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HEARING NOTICE re: 209 9th Street (former firehouse)
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The residents of block 251, together w/ supporters from the HPNA met yesterday evening to discuss the proposed building plan for properly located at 209 9th St. (the old firehouse). Our thanks to HPNA members and other more active members of the community for lending their support, ears and comments!

Our thanks also to Councilman Steve Fulop, who also attended the briefing and lent his expertise on best next steps.

Long story short, we need community support at a hearing scheduled for:

Tuesday, October 23, 5:30 PM
280 Grove St (City Hall)
Council Chambers, 2nd Floor

As a group, we need as many bodies as possible to make it clear to the Planning Board that the community wants and needs more time to review the building plans, and address its concerns in a one-on-one meeting with the developer. (given only 10 day notice was given on a limited basis to only 24 townhomes of the hearing, and not to the remaining community impacted).

PLEASE we need your support -- beyond petitions and JClist posts -- Steve Fulop made it clear that a showing of faces to the planning board will emphasize that the impact to all of us as residents (traffic, pollution, and MOST importantly testing and certifications regarding the former Chromium dump on this property) is a concern and will help us make the case to postpone approval of the developer's Application for Development to begin ground-breaking.

We have Steve Fulop's support on this, and he will be in attendance at the meeting! We hope to see you there! If you can't attend, please send a friend!!


See more info at this thread:

Live in the area of 9th St/Pavonia between Erie & Manila? New Development Plans Will Impact You!

Posted on: 2007/10/19 14:16
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Re: Live in the area of 9th St/Pavonia between Erie & Manila? New Development Plans Will Impact You!
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Murican, all of the residents on Block 251 received a Notice of Hearing to be held on Oct 23rd (and were not on attorney stationary). While it does not state it is a variance application, the site plan submitted to the City Planning Division show a height of 60ft.

Posted on: 2007/10/19 3:18
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Re: Live in the area of 9th St/Pavonia between Erie & Manila? New Development Plans Will Impact You!
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I am posting something to the list that was forwarded to me by someone in the Park Hamilton. This email was sent by the management company representative:


**********************************************
Attached find a notice for a Building Variance Hearing to be held on October 23rd. It was delivered to Management on Tuesday October 16th.

It is not on any attorney?s stationary and avoids stating that the hearing before the planning Board is for a variance application.

Did any of the Board receive a copy of this notice as well? You should have as property owners. If you did not, the requirements of notification have not been met by 209 Ninth St., LLC, owner of the property.
******************************************

Could HPNA, Steve Fulop and anyone else concerned with this matter please advise?

As far as we know, no board member or unit owner at the Park Hamilton was notified.

Posted on: 2007/10/18 22:01
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Re: Live in the area of 9th St/Pavonia between Erie & Manila? New Development Plans Will Impact You!
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Please read the old threads on this topic such as here

The same issues are of concern in this project, density, height, and traffic impact. The good thing with the LOTP project is that the Silvermans (Exeter) have been very receptive to neighborhood input, have always contributed to the artistic growth of the neighborhood and are completing the projects they have started.

This developer, a very pleasant man, has not shown his abillity to complete the small project at the corner of 9th and Manila.

The issues Gelkind raises about existing zoning and environmental issues are of concern.

The workers that I have observed on the 9th and Manila project don't seem to be "professionals", they seem to be weekend workers doing a DIY project.

Quote:

ansky wrote:
Quote:

murican wrote:
Residents in Hamilton Park wanted the Living on the park complex to be no more than 6 stories to fit in with the existing buildings around the park.


The old St. Francis hospital was 8 or 9 stories, why would height all of a sudden be an issue for the LOTP complex?

Posted on: 2007/10/17 15:12
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Re: Live in the area of 9th St/Pavonia between Erie & Manila? New Development Plans Will Impact You!
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Quote:
2. An Environmental Issue: This property was the site of the old Ninth Street Firehouse -- a known Chomate Ore waste site listed by the NJ Dept of Environmental Protection list as having been remediated. See http://www.pdcbank.state.nj.us/dep/sr ... einfo/chrome/update28.htm

Before considering the zoning question, there should be a clear demonstration to the surrounding neighbors and community that the remediation method actually used has left the property suitable for development (including ground excavation) in the first instance.

I'm not anti-development Ianmac, but it pays to ask questions before development takes place, rather than later.


The environmental question still remains to be answered.

If the city can come forth and demonstrate when the old firehouse site was remediated and by what method, then this question goes away, but it should be clearly answered, and not taken for granted.

Posted on: 2007/10/17 13:37
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Re: Live in the area of 9th St/Pavonia between Erie & Manila? New Development Plans Will Impact You!
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Quote:

murican wrote:
Residents in Hamilton Park wanted the Living on the park complex to be no more than 6 stories to fit in with the existing buildings around the park.


The old St. Francis hospital was 8 or 9 stories, why would height all of a sudden be an issue for the LOTP complex?

Posted on: 2007/10/17 13:02
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Re: Live in the area of 9th St/Pavonia between Erie & Manila? New Development Plans Will Impact You!
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I am a resident of one of the 24 town homes and have been in contact with the original developer of the houses. I want to ease everyone's mind and tell you there need not be a concern of chromium on the site. It was cleaned up years ago by the city and tested by the EPA. That is how this whole problem began. The dispute over who should pay for the the clean up expense resulted in the land being taken over by the city (which was originally zoned as 1-family). About three years ago we were approached by a representative from the city looking into making the lot into a playground for the adjacent school. Apparently they chose to sell the land for profit rather than provide open space for the children.

I'd also like to address all of you emphasizing on our opposition to the Redevelopment. The requested height is not in character to any of the homes on the entire block. So please stop comparing it to Hamilton Park Square. Our homes are very similar to those on Coles / 9th. Is it too much to ask that we maintain one square block of 1-family homes?

We are not opposing development on the land, rather simply want to work out something that is cohesive for everyone. With the upcoming Living on the Park, Home Depot under construction, street closings for Cordero & Golden Door school and Holland Tunnel traffic (only a block away) it is puts a tremedous strain on the one way streets.

With that being said, we need to focus on the upcoming hearing and strongly urge you to attend.

We acquired copies of the redevelopment proposal which I will get to HPNA. As previously stated the residents of Block 251 will be having a meeting Thursday night to discuss strategies. We welcome any one interested in attending.

Posted on: 2007/10/17 5:37
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Re: Live in the area of 9th St/Pavonia between Erie & Manila? New Development Plans Will Impact You!
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A very important question that needs to be answered is whether this piece of property falls into a redevelopment zone. From the earlier posts, this might be the case... and if so, then the regular zoning does not apply. The zoning specifications of the redevelopment will supercede the regular zoning. (Hopefully, we'll have confirmation of this by the close of business on Wednesday.)

The community, under such circumstances, will have a strong legal argument to defeat the requested variances, and to keep the planned development to not more than than the levels set forth in the redevelopment plan.

It will be a more difficult fight to reduce permitted allowances below those set forth in the redevelopment plan, as according to NJ land use law, these specifications are permitted "as-of-right". What this means is that if the developer submits plans in conformity with the redevelopment plan, the city cannot legally deny these rights. It must approve the plan.

To successfully fight the developer's plan will require everyone's active attendance at the planning board and other meetings where the plan will be reviewed. Petitions and posting here won't be enough to get the message through.

Posted on: 2007/10/17 3:36
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Re: Live in the area of 9th St/Pavonia between Erie & Manila? New Development Plans Will Impact You!
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Michelsan you have email through jclist
Click on inbox to see it
You can ask people to PM you

Quote:

michelesan wrote:
The townhome association is arranging for a meeting to discuss strategy, separate from the HPNA meeting in Nov pre-this hearing this Thursday at one of the houses -- do email me if you are interested in attending. michelesan9 at aol


280 Grove is City Hall. A place well-known by the JCLIsters who have been fighting similar battles

Please see http://www.25mc.org/

and Click on the link for the St. Francis Archive for some background

Posted on: 2007/10/17 2:47
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Re: Live in the area of 9th St/Pavonia between Erie & Manila? New Development Plans Will Impact You!
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Ninth Street is zoned R-2 , as I remember , no more than 4 stories.

Please remember the Park Hamilton was rehabbed by the Silvermans, it was originally 5 stories with 4 stories added to it.

They also did the Academy.

Residents of the Park Hamilton fought to preserve the R-2 zoning in the neighborhood along with other residents.

Residents in Hamilton Park wanted the Living on the park complex to be no more than 6 stories to fit in with the existing buildings around the park.

Please note that the renovation of that building on 9th and Manila has been going on since the year 2000, not 2005 as stated in an earlier post.

Yes, DanL here we go again!

Posted on: 2007/10/17 2:41
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Re: Live in the area of 9th St/Pavonia between Erie & Manila? New Development Plans Will Impact You!
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Aargh....

thats why Hamilton Square should not have been upzoned to 12/13 stories......

this is an infill project, why should it not be consistant with the adjacent properties, height, density, setbacks (front and rear) and use.....

how do you determine the "needs" of the community? is that the people that live nearby and in the area....?

perhaps the community needs park space, working sewers, good schools funded by all property owners, safer streets, better mass transit, rational and best practices development and bicycle lanes....



Quote:

ianmac47 wrote:
Quote:

1. A Zoning Issue: Should the owner of this property be granted variances to build higher and more densely than what's permitted under the currently applicable zoning principles and regulations?


First its difficult to have a discussion about what should or should not be permissible zoning without looking at the broader context of the needs of the community. But, if for the sake of argument we want to ignore the broader issue of citywide and region centric planning and limit the discussion specifically to the lot-- well its not as though a 60 story building would be out of place at that location.

The Park Hamilton is 9 stories and Hamilton Square is is 10 or 11 stories, which means contextually, this building will fit with the existing norms of the surrounding block.

http://www.newyorkssixth.com/directory/2007/02/park-hamilton.html
http://www.livingonthepark.com/rendering3.html

Posted on: 2007/10/17 2:20
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Re: Live in the area of 9th St/Pavonia between Erie & Manila? New Development Plans Will Impact You!
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I believe the EPA has already cleaned this site years ago in fact (as well as many others in Jersey City) but i always thought it was strange they had a school next to a former site. I also always found it strange they havent built anything on this lot for years and years.

Posted on: 2007/10/17 2:02
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Re: Live in the area of 9th St/Pavonia between Erie & Manila? New Development Plans Will Impact You!
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Ianmac, while you are correct that the development is not a 60 story, you should note that the property is situated on a lot that is zoned for single family homes, not multi family homes, that the other townhome property owners have been limited to expansion because of this zoning law.

Fair is fair - either allow for multi family zoning across the whole zone or limit the developer to single townhome as previously.

Construction is construction and the community raises some excellent points I myself wasn't aware of - the Chromium and proper testing done TODAY should be primary concern for all the residents in the vicinity. We all have many children schooling or growing up in the area!

Posted on: 2007/10/17 1:48
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Re: Live in the area of 9th St/Pavonia between Erie & Manila? New Development Plans Will Impact You!
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The hearing Jen mentions is taking place at 280 Grove Street, October 23rd at 530 pm.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en ... t+jersey+city&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=39.86519,82.265625&ie=UTF8&z=16&iwloc=addr&om=1

The townhome association is arranging for a meeting to discuss strategy, separate from the HPNA meeting in Nov pre-this hearing this Thursday at one of the houses -- do email me if you are interested in attending. michelesan9 at aol

Posted on: 2007/10/17 1:38
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Re: Live in the area of 9th St/Pavonia between Erie & Manila? New Development Plans Will Impact You!
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I live in the area of 9th and Manila and walk past the area in question very frequently. That lot seems pretty small, with the school to the west and the townhouses to the east. If there really is a problem with chromium there, wouldn't that also be affecting the school and townhouses? I don't see how they could have built the school and the townhouses without cleaning up that whole block.

Posted on: 2007/10/17 1:23
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Re: Live in the area of 9th St/Pavonia between Erie & Manila? New Development Plans Will Impact You!
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Quote:

1. A Zoning Issue: Should the owner of this property be granted variances to build higher and more densely than what's permitted under the currently applicable zoning principles and regulations?


First its difficult to have a discussion about what should or should not be permissible zoning without looking at the broader context of the needs of the community. But, if for the sake of argument we want to ignore the broader issue of citywide and region centric planning and limit the discussion specifically to the lot-- well its not as though a 60 story building would be out of place at that location.

The Park Hamilton is 9 stories and Hamilton Square is is 10 or 11 stories, which means contextually, this building will fit with the existing norms of the surrounding block.

http://www.newyorkssixth.com/directory/2007/02/park-hamilton.html
http://www.livingonthepark.com/rendering3.html

Posted on: 2007/10/17 0:38
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Re: Live in the area of 9th St/Pavonia between Erie & Manila? New Development Plans Will Impact You!
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Ianmac, I've read that article and it's actually a good one, but this thread (and this particular property) is perhaps not the best place to have a policy discussion about the pros and cons of development. Save that for another thread.

I believe that there are two basic questions the community needs to explore about 209 Ninth Street -- I'd like to hear what others have to say about the following:

1. A Zoning Issue: Should the owner of this property be granted variances to build higher and more densely than what's permitted under the currently applicable zoning principles and regulations?

2. An Environmental Issue: This property was the site of the old Ninth Street Firehouse -- a known Chomate Ore waste site listed by the NJ Dept of Environmental Protection list as having been remediated. See http://www.pdcbank.state.nj.us/dep/sr ... einfo/chrome/update28.htm

Before considering the zoning question, there should be a clear demonstration to the surrounding neighbors and community that the remediation method actually used has left the property suitable for development (including ground excavation) in the first instance.

I'm not anti-development Ianmac, but it pays to ask questions before development takes place, rather than later.

All the best.

Geoff

Posted on: 2007/10/17 0:00
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Re: Live in the area of 9th St/Pavonia between Erie & Manila? New Development Plans Will Impact You!
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This is very interesting considering I heard this site was an old chromium dump. I happen to live directly across the street. I always wondered why the school never took it over to put a playground/area for the kids to run around outside. I ran into a few locals in the area who have lived in the area forever who told me that the reason was that it was a previous chromium dump years ago. Not exactly sure if its true, but now I'm curious. I would most definitely be oppossed to this. Anyone have any further insight?

Posted on: 2007/10/16 23:52
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Re: Live in the area of 9th St/Pavonia between Erie & Manila? New Development Plans Will Impact You!
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I know its unpopular to voice any pro-development sentiments, but perhaps before everyone jumps on the Not in My Backyard bandwagon, you should read over this quick article in the Atlantic: http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200711/housing "Dallas and Los Angeles represent two distinct models for successful American cities... ... One makes room for a wide range of incomes, offering most working people a comfortable life. The other, over time, becomes an enclave for the rich..." "The Dallas model, prominent in the South and Southwest, sees a growing population as a sign of urban health. Cities liberally permit housing construction to accommodate new residents. The Los Angeles model, common on the West Coast and in the Northeast Corridor, discourages growth by limiting new housing. Instead of inviting newcomers, this approach rewards longtime residents with big capital gains and the political clout to block projects they don?t like. The direct results of these strategies are predictable: cheap, plentiful housing in some places, and expensive, scarce housing in others"

Posted on: 2007/10/16 22:47
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Re: Live in the area of 9th St/Pavonia between Erie & Manila? New Development Plans Will Impact You!
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Quote:

michelesan wrote:
10/23 -send me a message and I'll send you details). Steve Fulop will be in attendance at the next HPNA. If you want a voice in your day to day living, don't get steamrolled by this one, and put in your two cents on what you think the developer should be limited to.


Could you post the details here?

Also Jen, where is the petition?
Could HPNA also send this info out to its members?

Posted on: 2007/10/16 22:02
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Re: Live in the area of 9th St/Pavonia between Erie & Manila? New Development Plans Will Impact You!
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Thanks for posting this thread. I just want to clarify that the next HPNA meeting will be on Wed, November 7 at Cordero School.

I hope that there is a good turnout at the Planning Board meeting on Tuesday, 10/23. It is important to show the Planning Board that the neighborhood is opposed to the variances that the developer is applying for. Please come support your neighbors and either sign their petition or show up next Tuesday night. Better yet - do both!

Posted on: 2007/10/16 19:03
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Live in the area of 9th St/Pavonia between Erie & Manila? New Development Plans Will Impact You!
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A new development has been proposed by the same developer of the long standing, never finished, started in 2005 multi unit rental on the corner of 9th and Manila. If you're not aware of it and either live in the vicinity of, or are impacted by the ongoing traffic congestion from the Cordero School (which closes the Pavonia St. for the kids) or Charter School (whose parent pickups block & double park all over Manila), this will impact you!

The developer is proposing a 5 story multi unit rental dwelling in the empty lot between the Cordero School and the established townhomes on 9th between Erie and Manila. The residents of the 24 townhomes on the block received JUST a 10-day notice to bring their concerns and representation to the hearing!

Think parking is an issue!? It'll be worse! Where will they put all their construction trucks?? What about the dust and debris from construction? Do you work at home? Hope you don't mind the noise level!

For long term homeowners, do be aware that a review at the Planning Board at 30 Montgomery St. plans show that it is going to be a huge endeavor. The building will be over 60ft in height, if you include the stairwell to the roof it is 68ft.

Somehow, the proposal, though not yet approved, is going for:
1. building on 85% of the lot, where Redevelopment zoning
says 65% Max
2. building Height will be 60+ ft, where Redevelopment zoning
says 40ft Max

I am absolutely opposed to this building as planned.

Please voice your concern at the next HPNA meeting (I believe there is one on 10/18) or to the hearing on 10/23 -send me a message and I'll send you details). Steve Fulop will be in attendance at the next HPNA. If you want a voice in your day to day living, don't get steamrolled by this one, and put in your two cents on what you think the developer should be limited to.

Posted on: 2007/10/16 18:10
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