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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
 
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I agree that the city has neglected its history, and the new historic district will help reverse this neglect.
The statement that the majority of residents who spoke in favor of this district (creating the historic district) do not reside in this area is incorrect. Numerous speakers who reside in the proposed historic district (give or take on par with opponents) support it. And easily a similar number of people that spoke opposed to historic designation did not reside in the proposed historic district like yourself.
Posted on: 2015/6/20 2:49
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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On June 10, 2015, the Jersey City council created a new historic district against the wishes of many of the residents who live there. The majority who spoke in favor of this district live outside the area. For those who think I am wrong, I suggest they look at the city's website to view more than five hours on this one subject or go to www.speaknj.com to see to see a 28-minute version.
Ironically, while the city is telling the residents in the West Bergen-East Lincoln Park Historic District that they must spend more dollars to restore their homes; the city has neglected its own history. Where is historic marker for the Village of Bergen? Where is the marker given by the Daughters of the American Revolution denoting the site now called Dickinson High school which played an important role in the War of 1812 as a hospital? It is the reason a cemetery is close by. Where is the plaque for Mercer Street that was called "Old Glory" due the number of young men who lost their lives in the world wars? This new historic district will cause financial hardships as it did in the Downtown communities where many long-term residents were forced to leave, but the hypocrisy should be noted in that the city has yet to restore the Apple Tree House, a project that began in 1989 and is still not done. YVONNE BALCER JERSEY CITY http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2 ... istrict.html#incart_river
Posted on: 2015/6/20 0:02
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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2013/3/29 21:43 Last Login : 2023/9/5 18:27 From Bergen Hill
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There is no strawman to compare historical homes to historical monuments. The scale at which they draw people to the area may be different however their impact is the same. You have admitted that you are not a home-owner. As such, the perceived added cost isn't really that much. It's a fallacy to argue that there is some incredibly new cost getting thrown at an owner. If the house I purchased was one with wood siding, I'd full well know that every few years I'd need to have it painted. Just as with the house I presently own, there are maintenance costs associated with it. These are the realities of home ownership. If you aren't prepared then you shouldn't be purchasing the house. Additionally, there is a general understanding that a community good cost is not always shared evenly. Sure, it would be perfect if everyone chipped in, but that isn't always the case. However, and this is important, the state does have a fund for which individuals can apply for financial assistance in order to help with making the type of restoration repairs that would improve the curb appeal of a building.
Posted on: 2015/6/15 17:31
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Dos A Cero
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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Your entire post was a strawman. I never said anything about understanding how this could be beneficial, or why preserving history is important, or what the designation entails. It's total rubbish, too: of course I am for preserving history! That's hardly what's at stake here. Pretty funny you put these homes in the same footing as the Lincoln Memorial or the Washington Monument. Who are you trying to kid?? Tell me, do you really believe that owners in this newly designated historic district will NOT be facing extra expenses over time directly due to the designation? Do you think it is fair that the owners are now saddled with these extra expenses, which are for the "good of the community", but no one else is expected to help shoulder the expenses?
Posted on: 2015/6/15 16:57
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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2013/3/29 21:43 Last Login : 2023/9/5 18:27 From Bergen Hill
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If you don't understand how this could benefit you and those living in the area, I'm not sure what to tell you. Maybe we should just knock down the Lincoln Memorial in DC and throw up a bunch of condos. How about we just remove the Washington Monument? If you don't preserve history in some manner, you'll end up losing it and the significance of it. None of this legislature is stating that they can't hang a TV on the wall or put a deck or pool in their yard. This has to do with curb appeal, something that real estate agents consistently talk about with any and everyone. Additionally, it protects homeowners in the area from being subjected to ugly and cheap development getting thrown up.
Posted on: 2015/6/15 15:46
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Dos A Cero
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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How fresh... As with almost every social gain that can be reduced to a redistribution of wealth or property, and which are often disguised as a "benefit to the whole community", there are always some like you (DanL) that advocate for these changes and "improvements" and yet the impact to you is nil. The hypocrisy is quite amusing. I wonder how the residents of the rest of the ward, or neighborhoods surrounding the proposed historical district, would feel about this "gain for the whole community" if they were also required to pay a special "historic district support" levy or tax to assist owners of newly-minted historic properties with the expenses of meeting their newly-imposed requirements. Something tells me that many more would oppose the district. Of course, it's so much easier to spend someone else's money, or to play with the livelihood of others, when it doesn't affect you...
Posted on: 2015/6/15 11:48
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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Dan L, the speakers spoke for over 5 and one half hours. I try to include people who are not normal speakers at meetings. Yes, I did not include you and I did not include myself. Eventually, the entire video will be on the city's web site. If you have 5 and one half hours I suggest you watch the video and do a tally. I stand by my statements. Dan, you live in at the Hague condo, not a wood frame house. So the impact you is not the same as many of the speakers who live in the district and are against the ordinance.
Posted on: 2015/6/14 13:54
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Quite a regular
 
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Sad times. This sort of maneuver seeks solely to turn a beige world more beige.
Freedom, under our great nation, is the ability to choose one's own life so long as it doesn't affect another. The color of your door, curvature of the window or type of railing doesn't affect anyone else. Long live true freedom - where you can maintain your property without the neighborhood busybody weighing in on the color of your door. Where you can drive your Louis Vuitton (sp?) plastered car and while your neighbors may find it hideous, they can respect you for doing your own thing, to your own property and not affecting them in any material way. Freedom. Eroding every day.
Posted on: 2015/6/14 3:49
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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actually, a majority of the 600 odd property owners did not express any opinion or attend the council meeting. of the 55 speakers, I conclude about half for and half against, there were probably more affirmative speakers from other historic districts than against and both sides of issue had other interested speakers that neither lived in the proposed area nor other districts (and there were at least 5 speakers that one could figure out whether they were for or against, or why they stayed to almost midnight to speak.)
the way I see it, one gives up some for the whole community to gain and there are substantial benefits related to zoning, but not directly related to historic preservation (as can always be the case with regs.) not only do I believe that historic districts further bring communities together, but that neighborhood associations and the like can help/facilitate/educate dealings with the HPO or HPC. the video below did not include myself or at least a half dozen other residents of the neighborhood that spoke effectively to the benefits and reason for adoption. Quote:
Posted on: 2015/6/14 3:36
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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Posted on: 2015/6/13 23:04
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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Quote:
"If we wish to have a future with greater meaning, we must concern ourselves...with the total heritage of the nation and all that is worth preserving from our past as a living part of the present." - Historic Preservation Act of 1966 There are lots of articles on why historic preservation is important; here is one that is thoughtful, well written, and speaks to everyone (not just preservationists like myself!) - http://www.metropulse.com/stories/fea ... cal-reasons#?cid=Facebook And the design review aspect alone is valuable - you will never see one of these, one of the most hideous buildings I have ever seen - http://www.trulia.com/property/320555 ... ve-2-Jersey-City-NJ-07307
Posted on: 2015/6/12 19:48
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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Good luck with this. I think that this designation being forced upon 600 households is a crass government overreach, especially if a majority was against it. You will forever have to get approval from a little-Napoleon "historian" with regards to any exterior fixes or modifications to your home. Read through the threads here in JCLIST and you will find several dealing with the headaches of some Paulus Hook residents.
Posted on: 2015/6/12 19:46
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Just can't stay away
 
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1. i haven't the foggiest idea why someone who does not live here would care about this designation.
2. i am a little disappointed because i read somewhere that establishment of this designation would double my home value overnight. well, i checked on zillow and that did not happen. something must be wrong.
Posted on: 2015/6/12 19:13
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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That is fine, I would have thought you would give an apology. But no responding is second best.
Posted on: 2015/6/12 0:48
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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I will not respond to you on JClist Yvonne. Simple as that.
Posted on: 2015/6/12 0:04
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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I honestly thought you were a better man than this Joshua. Just ask your friends who also know my husband, which person is aggressive and hot temper? I doubt if any would say my husband is aggressive and hot temper. Just for the record, Angelo Estrada was with five other people who also saw the incident.
Posted on: 2015/6/11 23:52
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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Yvonne, I don't publicly air dirty laundry. I will just reiterate. Your husband came and confronted me, I did not confront him. I did not consider his actions an "assault" and did not feel threatened, though I thought it was rather silly that he made a "property" claim to a sign that he was nowhere near and that someone placed so it could get in front of the TV camera.
If you had really thought that this was an issue, you know very well you could have contacted me, and not posted it in a public forum. But this was not to get an apology, this was to smear.
Posted on: 2015/6/11 23:06
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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Joshua, I only saw the cop come to you and my husband. I did not see the beginning. I was told this by Councilman Rivera. He was upset when he saw this. Futhermore, Councilman Rivera said he spoke to you about this, he called this an assault. Today, I received a phone call from a former neighbor, Angelo Estrada, who lives in Van Vorst Park. He wanted to know the name of the person who cursed and was aggressive towards my husband. Either everyone is lying or you are. Anyone who know my husband considers him a kind and gentle person, very pleasant towards people. On the other hand, you have a hot temper. Joshua, you are probably in your 40s my husband is in his 70s. Your behavior is not acceptable. Everyone has a right to speak last night and everyone has a right to have a sign. You tore up his sign and place the papers under the bench. My husband replaced the torn sign and that is when you lost your temper. Just be a man, send apologies and I will drop the subject.
Posted on: 2015/6/11 22:47
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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Wrong again Yvonne. The opponents of the district thought they would be cute and put a large sign on the bench that the TV camera catches when the speaker is speaking. I took the sign away and went back to my seat. Your husband, who was sitting far away from the sign on the other side of the chambers, than ran across the chambers and started saying that that was "his property." He, laughably, came up to me, not the other way around. When he put another sign on the bench, I then put one of the pro district signs next to it, at which point he started freaking out again.
Maybe when you testified you should have told people what your property taxes were downtown during the "unaffordable" period of historic preservation. Also tell people what you sold your house for.
Posted on: 2015/6/11 20:56
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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(I also think it should just have been put to a vote, let the 600 homeowners vote..simple)
JJ comments: Quote: "This is a landmark moment for Jersey City, as this will be the first historic district created in over 30 years and the first outside of Downtown," he said. "We are looking at relief measures for homeowners as well to make sure that all the current residents benefit and nobody gets left behind. This is a huge win for Jersey City." Quote: Don?t compare what went on in Downtown JC in the 70?s with what is being planned for the Lincoln Park area in 2015. DTJC was war zone in the 70?s with burned out buildings and empty lots all over the place. The HD was put in place to save the little that was left.The Lincoln Park area was never like that nor will be like that.
Posted on: 2015/6/11 20:39
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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Joshua, by the way, Councilman Rivera, told me you "chest bump" my husband over a sign, he said other council members saw this too. Other people told me you were cursing my husband after you tore up his sign. That action was inappropriate, shame on you, but returning to the subject I have the footage, it will take time to edit and I am standing by what I said. The majority of the people who were in favor of this lives outside of the district and the majority of the people who spoke against this lives in the district. As I said last night, the city could have place a non-bidding resolution on November election to allow the people in district decide for themselves. You, Joshua, who spoke for this district will not have to pay the higher fees imposed on them. As one woman said last night, she escaped Van Vorst Park due to the regulations and brought a building there. She asked the realtor if this was part of the historic district at purchase and the realtor said no. She also said if she knew this would have happened she would not purchase her home. Not every one wants to be in a historic district.
Posted on: 2015/6/11 19:09
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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Quote:
This is simply wrong. There were a few people on both sides (you and I included) who do not live in the district, but almost everyone who spoke lived in the district, and that includes most the people who spoke in support of the district.
Posted on: 2015/6/11 15:06
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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Jersey City City Council approves controversial West Side historic districtBy By a 6-3 vote after hours of speakers voicing the pros and cons of creating a new West Side historic district, the Jersey City City Council approved the new designation just after midnight. More than 600 properties will be affected within the new West Bergen-East Lincoln Park Historic District under the measure that has been discussed for months. Councilwoman Diane Coleman and Councilmen Richard Boggiano and Daniel Rivera voted against the ordinance. Council President Rolando R. Lavarro Jr. cast the final vote. "People were asking me if I would want this to happen to my neighborhood," he said. "I live on Culver Avenue and I would want it to happen there, so I want it to happen for the city." Proponents of the historic district believe it will help maintain the character of the neighborhood and increase property values. Those against the designation do not want to be restricted when renovating their homes and believe it will price people out of the community therefore reduce diversity. Mayor Steven Fulop released a statement shortly after the vote. "This is a landmark moment for Jersey City, as this will be the first historic district created in over 30 years and the first outside of Downtown," he said. "We are looking at relief measures for homeowners as well to make sure that all the current residents benefit and nobody gets left behind. This is a huge win for Jersey City." Read more: http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... avor_of_historic_dis.html
Posted on: 2015/6/11 5:40
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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55 people spoke before the city council, the majority of the people who spoke in favor were from outside the district, the majority of the people who live in the district were against the historic district. The city council voted 6-3. Boggiano, Rivera, and Coleman voted no. The speakers spoke for 5 and 1/2 hours.
Posted on: 2015/6/11 4:57
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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Huge turnout at City Hall to determine fate of a historic district on Jersey City's West SideBy The line never seemed to dwindle at tonight's council meeting as one by one Jersey City residents took to the podium at City Hall to voice their opinions regarding the proposed West Side Historic District. The ordinance at stake is regarding the adoption of the West Bergen-East Lincoln Park Historic District. The historic district would be the city's fifth, although the only one outside of Downtown Jersey City and the first historic district in the last 30 years. The designated area near Lincoln Park would affect over 600 properties and would provide an extra level of bureaucracy for homeowners inside the area's boundaries. A wide array of residents took the stand, representing different ages, genders, and properties within and outside the proposed district. Some laid out facts, others spoke to the history of the city, while some residents quoted former presidents and even the bible. A slight majority of the speakers favored accepting the designated historic district, which they believe will help maintain the character and upkeep of the community. Others believed the new designation would price people out of the community, and not allow them to do as they pleased with their homes. Read more: http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... etermine_fate_of_wes.html
Posted on: 2015/6/11 4:13
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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New Jersey City historic district given initial OK by planning boardBy JERSEY CITY -- A controversial measure creating a historic district on the West Side was approved unanimously by the planning board last night after a nearly four-hour public hearing. Twenty six speakers addressed the planning board last night on the proposed historic district, which needs approval from the City Council and Mayor Steve Fulop before it becomes official. The district would affect over 600 property owners. The planning board approved the measure 5-0. Read more: http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... ict_given_initial_ok.html
Posted on: 2015/3/11 17:12
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Just can't stay away
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thanks again to everyone for the replies, messages and links. and again, it is only my own ignorance that brought me to this conversation so late in the game. i've done some homework and talked to a bunch of people and this is what i think.
the best argument i can make for the historic district is that this administration is very "developy," and this could put reins on the 500-unit skyscraper which replaces boyd-mcguiness park, or on st. peters turning homes into parking garages. i do believe those are legitimate arguments. however, this area is not ready, as evidenced by the fact that most anyone i talk to refers to the added expense of keeping up their properties to historic standards. as far as i can tell from using the internet, this area only has 60 to 65 percent of the income levels of the other historic districts. i feel that a yes/no on this should be made by people from an aesthetic perspective, not a financial one. asking me if i want to buy a bently or a mazda is not a real question, because i have to say mazda. if a few years from now i have a few million in the bank (as a piano teacher), then it will be a more realistic question. if the people here could make a decision based on what they think would be best for the neighborhood from something other than solely a financial level, it would be a more realistic question. the duncan projects were torn down just a few years ago only two blocks from the proposed district, there are stores on west side within the proposed district that have been boarded up for the 5 years we have lived here and there is still a bodega selling cheap alcohol and lottery tickets on 3 corners out of 4. i think this area is up and coming, but i do not think it has arrived yet, and i believe that this designation would retard, rather than enhance, growth in our neighborhood.
Posted on: 2015/2/10 16:56
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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Exactly. You want to limit what I can do with my property? That limits its usability and price and that means it must be covered by the Taking clause of the Fifth Amendment.
Posted on: 2015/2/8 0:01
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Home away from home
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If a city changes the rule for homeowners it has to foot the bill.
Posted on: 2015/2/7 3:01
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Re: Historic district may come to Jersey City's West Side
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Home away from home
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I can imagine it very easily, but I wouldn't see an automatic tragedy. The alternative possibilities are infinite. I was raised in a Buddhist home and was encouraged to embrace the concepts of impermanence and non-attachment. We're big on letting things go. This article to me perfectly encapsulates what happens when preservation runs amok, and saving a pile of old bricks becomes more important than living, breathing people with real needs. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/world/africa/09mali.html
Posted on: 2015/2/7 0:08
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