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Re: Downtown Jersey City businesses take on local farmers market
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Home away from home
 
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Aaon, can you please stop making reasonable, civil arguments that support your point of view? It detracts from the name-calling and pointless sniping we enjoy around here.
Posted on: 2014/10/9 19:10
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Re: Downtown Jersey City businesses take on local farmers market
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Home away from home
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Aaron,
Let me respond to all this piece by piece. Most of it I don't agree with and at the end of the day, I don't think consumers should be denied the choices they want to have. "1. The food trucks and table vendors represent predatory and unfair competition. How can I say this? It's pretty simple. When we open a restaurant we have to invest hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars. We then have to pay astronomical rents to be close to Grove Plaza. We pay high taxes and fees to Jersey City. The food trucks and table vendors have none of these costs. They pay a small fee and get to parachute in during the busiest hours of the day, the dinner rush. (They can stay away during the slow times.) So, their cost advantage is huge. Imagine running a business where your competitors minimum-wage could be half of yours. That's what this is like. It's completely unfair" I have no business interests in a food truck or any other eating establishment but I thoroughly disagree with this one. You have a sit-down restaurant. I find most of the stuff sold on food trucks in Jersey City to be overpriced and crappy. Furthermore, food trucks are just part of the landscape when it comes to competition. You had to have seen the food trucks around before, so you had to have known they might present competition. But if you really think you're losing a lot of business to them, maybe it's time to reevaluate your own food. Oh, and if running a food truck is a more advantageous business model, why don't you do it? I'm pretty sure you could sell your pizza that way. "2. Brick-and-mortar stores like ours make an immense contribution to the Jersey City economy. The food trucks and table vendors do not. Fully two thirds of the vendors at the Grove Plaza farmers market are from outside of Jersey City. They haven't built out any restaurants or hired any local contractors. They pay no rent to downtown landlords. They employ no Jersey City residents. They pay almost none of the Jersey City taxes and fees that we pay." Very true Aaron, but so what? We live in a very fluid economy in an area where there are three states (NJ,NY,CT) right next to each other. People come and go to Jersey City. There are long-term residents, but there are a lot of transients too. So what? Many of the restaurants and stores do employ locals and some don't. Some of those locals spend the money they just earned here, some take it out to the Garden State Plaza in Elizabeth and spend it at the big evil chain stores. The same can be said of owners of businesses in Jersey City. They will spend some of their profits right here in JC, some of what they spend will be on things that benefit businesses elsewhere, including overseas. That's capitalism and free trade. Some of the food truck owners might spend some of the money they earn right here in Jersey City too. "Keeping money in the community" is a lot of nonsense. Some of my dollars spent in Jersey City will stay here, some won't. Then for all the dollars that go out of Jersey City, they will be replaced by people coming in from out of town. What's the difference? This is not the 1800s, where people earned and spent all their money in the same town (and even then that wasn't quite the case). We've progressed a lot since the 1800s. As for paying rent to Jersey City landlords, I really couldn't care less about that. Some Jersey City landlords are real jackasses. 3."... a food truck or a guy selling from the table from southern New Jersey or Brooklyn is simply not fair competition." What if a food truck or table is owned by someone who happens to live in Jersey City? Would it be okay to you then? 4. "An empanada eaten does hurt pizza sales." Really? Because when I want empanadas, I buy empanadas. When I want pizza, I buy pizza. Two different foods. You could have framed this argument better by saying that pizza sold at the farmer's market hurts pizza sales. That would have made more sense. As for Ibby's complaining to the city council last night about two competitors selling on the plaza, they need to work more on improving their food and give people a reason to go over there. You claim the owner of Ibby's took the step of investing in Jersey City 20 years ago making "some of the best food you could ever want"... well then, the competition at the plaza shouldn't be a problem then. 5. "Jeff Favia clearly has many detractors here. I cannot comment as to some of the claims that have been made. I don't know Jeff well enough. What I can say is that he invested approximately $3 million in one of the nicest looking restaurants in Jersey City and has immeasurably improved the way the plaza looks. What if a Hooters had gone in there?" Never met Jeff, never ate at his restaurant so I have no comment. As for him improving the way the plaza looks, that's great, but it doesn't entitle him to regulations against competition. It was his choice to do what he did. The market was there before his restaurant. Oh, and if a Hooters had gone there (which it probably never would have because people living in the surrounding neighborhood would have raised hell I'm sure), I would have visited it. They're cheaper than Tilted Kilt and their food has gotten better. "Finally, as to Two Boots, we have tried to contribute in every way possible to Jersey City. We are a consistent supporter of numerous neighborhood organizations including ArtHouse, the Boys and Girls Club, WBGO and local schools. " All great reasons to visit and support your restaurant, which I've eaten at when I do get the hankering for your type of pizza (admittedly, not that often). Still doesn't entitle you to regulations against all kinds of competition, whether it's brick-and-mortar or food trucks. Also, you seem to emphasize the fact that your business is locally owned. From what I can tell (and I could be wrong) your business is a franchise. You may own the individual location, but if you are a franchise, you are paying royalties to the "big evil corporate" franchisor. If you are not a franchise but part of a group of restaurants that share a trademark and costs of marketing, then some of the dollars we spend at Two Boots is benefitting other Two Boots restaurants - all of which are located elsewhere, just like the owners of the food trucks and tables. Finally, for the record, I rarely buy anything from the tables at the plaza market. I think most of it is overpriced crap and have a hard time believing some of those people are making any money. But I also believe that consumers should be entitled to choose what they want and brick-and-mortar businesses should not be dictating what we can buy, where we can buy it, because of the added competition. Welcome to the capitalist society.
Posted on: 2014/10/9 19:00
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Re: Downtown Jersey City businesses take on local farmers market
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Home away from home
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The farmers market was in Jersey City long before any of that shit next to Duane Reade. And it was there before Two Boots.
Maybe the real problem is people keep opening mediocre pizzerias? None of the new pizzerias are better than Stella's or Helen's and don't really offer any improvement other than that some of the newer places are open late.
Posted on: 2014/10/9 18:54
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Re: Downtown Jersey City businesses take on local farmers market
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Home away from home
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I certainly see the issue with competition for the 'grab a bite' places. Orale, Beachwood, Barcade... not so much.
As for restaurants being less likely to open, has anyone looked at Newark lately? Don't we have a bunch of restaurants being built out right now? Whatever competition the farmer's market is providing certainly doesn't seem to have slowed the build out on new places on Newark. At the end of the day, I get the concern. More and more pop-up food places all crowding around the PATH can't help local businesses but I would hate to see them all go away. They add life to the streets in a way that everyone going off and grabbing a slice on the way home does not. Hopefully we can get something a bit in the middle.
Posted on: 2014/10/9 18:46
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Re: Downtown Jersey City businesses take on local farmers market
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Not too shy to talk
 
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Thanks. I think I now know how this rumor started. I'm glad Hilltop Girl mentioned it.
Posted on: 2014/10/9 18:28
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Re: Downtown Jersey City businesses take on local farmers market
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Not too shy to talk
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Are they called "The Space Station"?
Posted on: 2014/10/9 18:19
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Re: Downtown Jersey City businesses take on local farmers market
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Not too shy to talk
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Hi Folks,
I couldn't resist joining in this debate. (Sometimes I think I'm crazy for taking such a prominent role on this issue but have found that most people, when they hear our points, sympathize with us and understand our position.) I hope you'll take the time to read this. I have been the spokesperson for a group of 17 downtown businesses that includes, among others, Park and Sixth, Orale, La Conguita Barcade, Beachwood Caf?, the Little Sandwich Shop, and Ibby's Falafel. We have asked the Historic Downtown Special Improvement District, of which we are members, to end the sale of prepared foods at the farmers market. We believe that it should return to its original form which was essentially produce and other farm products sold by the actual farmers. A little background is in order. The problem of prepared foods only became a big problem when the SID, which was set up to help its member businesses instead decided to go into competition with us in order to fill a budget hole. The easiest way to do this was to find vendors from all over New Jersey and New York who would come in and rent space at the plaza to sell their foods. However, our problem with the SID is not your problem. The question is, even if it was run by someone else, why would it be wrong to allow the food court to continue? Let me explain. 1. The food trucks and table vendors represent predatory and unfair competition. How can I say this? It's pretty simple. When we open a restaurant we have to invest hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars. We then have to pay astronomical rents to be close to Grove Plaza. We pay high taxes and fees to Jersey City. The food trucks and table vendors have none of these costs. They pay a small fee and get to parachute in during the busiest hours of the day, the dinner rush. (They can stay away during the slow times.) So, their cost advantage is huge. Imagine running a business where your competitors minimum-wage could be half of yours. That's what this is like. It's completely unfair. 2. Brick-and-mortar stores like ours make an immense contribution to the Jersey City economy. The food trucks and table vendors do not. Fully two thirds of the vendors at the Grove Plaza farmers market are from outside of Jersey City. They haven't built out any restaurants or hired any local contractors. They pay no rent to downtown landlords. They employ no Jersey City residents. They pay almost none of the Jersey City taxes and fees that we pay. Of the 10 vendors at Grove Plaza that are from Jersey City, only four of them have actually built brick-and-mortar establishments. None of them have done so in the pricey downtown area. So even they have a huge cost advantage over us. 3. We are all for fair competition. Several of you have mentioned the opening of Porta next door to Two Boots. I welcome them. They have invested millions in a beautiful new space. They are competing with me fairly. When Roman Nose opened, they took a bite out of my sales. But I welcomed them also. They are nice guys and serve good food. But, as I explained above, a food truck or a guy selling from the table from southern New Jersey or Brooklyn is simply not fair competition. 4. An empanada eaten does hurt pizza sales. Consumers prize above all else, convenience. If you can grab some food the moment you emerge from the Path station and you're hungry, you'll do so. Some people might say "no, I want pizza and I'll walk the half block." Many won't though. That's just human nature. But it's even worse for others. Just last night, at the City Council meeting, the owner of Ibby's testified as to how he now has two competitors at Grove Plaza selling falafel and hummus. Imagine, this is a guy that took the step of investing in Jersey City 20 years ago and makes some of the best food you could ever want and he's losing sales to vendors from outside of Jersey City Who are in effect given a huge subsidy by the Special Improvement District when they are allowed to sell at the best location in Jersey City. This simply is not right. 5. Jeff Favia clearly has many detractors here. I cannot comment as to some of the claims that have been made. I don't know Jeff well enough. What I can say is that he invested approximately $3 million in one of the nicest looking restaurants in Jersey City and has immeasurably improved the way the plaza looks. What if a Hooters had gone in there? I think his views need to be taken seriously. Finally, as to Two Boots, we have tried to contribute in every way possible to Jersey City. We are a consistent supporter of numerous neighborhood organizations including ArtHouse, the Boys and Girls Club, WBGO and local schools. When two buildings burned down on Manila last year, we were the first to offer our space for a fundraiser for the occupants who were burned out. I know other businesses are similarly generous. These are things that food trucks and vendors from tables simply will not give to Jersey City. It's another reason why it's so important that everybody support brick-and-mortar businesses. If we give it time, we will get all of the restaurants we want. But so long as there are tables and food trucks at Grove Plaza restauranteurs will be less likely to build. I know everyone loves convenience. But convenience has costs. Thanks Aaron
Posted on: 2014/10/9 18:13
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Re: Downtown Jersey City businesses take on local farmers market
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Not too shy to talk
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Where was this place? I've never tried to close anyone. Most of all a music venue. I'm a musician myself. This is a bizarre and concerning accusation.
Posted on: 2014/10/9 18:12
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Re: Downtown Jersey City businesses take on local farmers market
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Home away from home
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Do you want to further expand upon the notion that this Farmers Market is hurting you business and you would like to see the city government reduce your competition. I can tell you I'm pretty bummed to see you guys attached to something like this and I won't be ordering pizza from you any longer because of it, I was ordering no less then twice a month before. I would urge you to reconsider your attack on the market, being attached to anything the Bistro owner is involved in is a real bad idea.
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Posted on: 2014/10/9 17:58
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Re: Downtown Jersey City businesses take on local farmers market
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Home away from home
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I'm not Hilltop but the Space Station was a music venue (kind of unofficial). They claimed you called them in on noise violations in 2012 after they tried to work with you and made sure they were shut down. There's more on their Facebook page that I had posted, but I don't know what did or did not happen so I decided to take that down and just post a quick summary.
Posted on: 2014/10/9 17:50
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Re: Downtown Jersey City businesses take on local farmers market
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Home away from home
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I could care less whether this market stays or goes, but this stance that they have earned a right to stay there because they've been there for 10 years is complete bullshit. I also think you give this market way too much credit. This square would've gentrified with or without this market.
Posted on: 2014/10/9 17:48
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Re: Downtown Jersey City businesses take on local farmers market
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Not too shy to talk
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Hi Hilltop Girl,
You stated that we had something to do with closing down The Space Station in 2012. I've never heard of it. Can you please explain? Aaron
Posted on: 2014/10/9 17:20
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Re: Downtown Jersey City businesses take on local farmers market
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Home away from home
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CatDog wrote:
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I have also witnessed him harassing the vendors at the farmers market like a petulant toddler, however I don't know anything about him being a racist. His "friends" on his Facebook profile seem to be a interestingly "diverse" group... Annod wrote: Quote:
The farmers market should file a restraining order against him if he continues harassing them.
Posted on: 2014/10/9 16:17
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Re: Downtown Jersey City businesses take on local farmers market
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Not too shy to talk
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This is infuriating. The area around Grove would not be what it is without the last ten years of pop up markets and festivals, and the small vendors who've taken the risks and battle poor weather and sales week after week. The Path alone would have not done much for the place, look at JSQ or the Exchange Place for comparison. Those are hubs with huge pedestrian traffic, but neither is really the a place where anybody spends much time.
If the dude who runs the dinning/drinking conglomerate on the Grove Plaza (Favia?) is really interested in increasing his profit margin, he should look at improving the quality of service and the culture of his businesses. He should look through the reviews his establishments get a few pointers. I was excited about the place opening, but after my first time there, I vowed never to come back. The food was not worth it, the service slow, the experience cold, and place felt soulless. A good restaurant creates a following regardless of price, decor, and (almost) location -- loot at Thirty Acres, Taqueria Mi Mariachi Taqueria or ME Casa. As for Two Boots, sure, they've paired up with ArtHouse for some monthly open mic which might enable them to sell a few more slices and pints or whatever, but I still can't forget that they had a direct hand in shutting down The Space Station in 2012, and thus making venues for live bands in JC even more dismal. Why patronize their business with so many other good pizza joints include some that go out of their way to support local stuff? (Delenio was out there at Merseles Studios for ArtoberFest not just selling, but also handing out slices to performing musicians without any fanfare. The simple things matter!) We have our reasons not to support these businesses, but if they succeed at pushing out the small food vendors and/or the beer stands from the pop up events at the Plaza, I'll be all for a public boycott. Sure we want JC to thrive as a community and small business play a huge roll in that, but there is a huge difference between pursuing highly profitable commercial strips and building strong communities. Damn it. This post made me mad!
Posted on: 2014/10/9 16:16
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Re: Downtown Jersey City businesses take on local farmers market
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Home away from home
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That would be awesome!! Are there currently any places in Jersey City to get good fresh fish?
Posted on: 2014/10/9 15:55
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Re: Downtown Jersey City businesses take on local farmers market
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Home away from home
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Really? Bad service? You're going to all the wrong places!
Posted on: 2014/10/9 15:53
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Re: Downtown Jersey City businesses take on local farmers market
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Home away from home
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That's a fair point. But is the goal to fill them at any cost? Does it make sense of them ALL to be filled with pizza places, which is generally what has been happening lately? I would imagine that the businesses that are being harmed most by the "food court-esk" farmers market are the grab and go type places like pizza joints. There is apparently big demand for that type of food, which is why the farmers market has been so successful.
Posted on: 2014/10/9 15:51
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Re: Downtown Jersey City businesses take on local farmers market
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Home away from home
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Quote:
moobycow wrote: On the off Chance that Jeff Fabia reads this board . . .. He likes JCList: https://www.facebook.com/search/more/? ... php?id=1223599483&fref=ts
Posted on: 2014/10/9 15:48
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Re: Downtown Jersey City businesses take on local farmers market
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Home away from home
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I went to the Bistro once for brunch. We waited over an hour+ after ordering a 2 omlets (seriously, that's not an exaggeration). After complaining to the waiter once, Jeff went and hid in the back. When the food finally came out, it was not at all what we ordered. We decided to leave and will not be back.
Posted on: 2014/10/9 15:39
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Re: Downtown Jersey City businesses take on local farmers market
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Just can't stay away
 
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Is he looking to "challenge" or boycott Alex's Pizza or Helen's or Stella's because they are within a few feet of his restaurant selling pizza by the slice? Again, he's grasping at straws. What I truly think he doesn't like is that the stalls are right in front of his business and that's taking away from the point of his outdoor seating experience. I really doubt it has anything to do with selling more pizza.
Posted on: 2014/10/9 14:48
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Re: Downtown Jersey City businesses take on local farmers market
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Home away from home
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Location location location. People also eat in droves at McDonalds. That food is still no better than dog food. The owner is a douche and his "visions" are full of cataracts.
Posted on: 2014/10/9 14:37
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Re: Downtown Jersey City businesses take on local farmers market
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Home away from home
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The argument is he sells less slices of pizza that day. Apparently Two Boots does as well. Honestly, I can see that. A $3 empanada does compete with a takeout slice of pizza. Still, the farmer's market (food and all) was there well before his restaurant. If he didn't want compete with it he shouldn't have opened a place right next it.
Posted on: 2014/10/9 14:36
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Home away from home
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A true farmers market, where you can buy fresh fruits and vegatables from the farm.  DTJC farmers market where you can buy socks, A $5.00 cookie, Mexican food, and some fruit.  This city is just laughable and most don't get it.
Posted on: 2014/10/9 14:27
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Re: Downtown Jersey City businesses take on local farmers market
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Just can't stay away
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Agreed. Charge them rent. At least that way the argument can be made that they are "legit" competition. It would almost be like having another storefront. Maybe a "hotel" retail space that vendors can set up for a day/a week or whatever? A lot of the vendors at the market are online businesses (the veggie burger co, busy bee organics etc) so that way they can set up shop to promote their businesses without having to get a long term brick and mortar space? Plus, what I don't get is, how selling $3 empanadas from the market take away from selling mussels in a sit down restaurant? Jeff or whatever his name is, needs a reality check. Honestly, I would love to see the meltdown. The arguments that these people come up with sometimes are stupid. It will be free entertainment :)
Posted on: 2014/10/9 14:21
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Re: Downtown Jersey City businesses take on local farmers market
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Home away from home
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The problem is the farmers market dtjc are misleading they are not true farmers markets. My mom lives in west village and the farmers market there is the real deal nothing but farmers. The only exception is they have baked bread. They should rebrand it and name it something else. if they want to keep it a farmers market get rid of the prepared food, because it's hurting business and we all know more empty store fronts is not a good look. Move the prepared food away from restaurant row.
Posted on: 2014/10/9 14:13
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Re: Downtown Jersey City businesses take on local farmers market
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Home away from home
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If you did that, the business owners who are paying money for rent in brick and mortar will have a meltdown.
Posted on: 2014/10/9 13:58
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Home away from home
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The Bistro at Grove is always surprisingly busy. I guess location really is the key. Like somebody else mentioned, I kind of hope that he eventually sells the place, because the space really begs for something with a vision, and not the generic "Bistro", "Coffee Shop", and "Wine Bar".
Truthfully I can somewhat understand how a business owner might get a little hot and bothered if they truly notice a dip in business on days when the farmers market is there. But you know what? You have to expect competition, and competition comes in all forms, including fellow brick and mortar restaurants, farmers market vendors, a guy with a hotdog cart, food trucks, ice cream trucks. As a business owner, focus on your product and increasing your customer base. In my business, my competition comes in all forms as well - companies with lower overheads, larger sales teams, more marketing budgets, etc. If I spent time complaining about it instead of focusing on what I can control (increasing my business) I'd be in trouble.
Posted on: 2014/10/9 13:58
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Home away from home
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Funny I have eaten at Fabia's spot several times and each time it was packed. So apparently people are supporting it.
Posted on: 2014/10/9 13:31
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Re: Downtown Jersey City businesses take on local farmers market
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Home away from home
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On the off Chance that Jeff Fabia reads this board I'd like to let him know that the sole reason I don't eat at his place is because he is hostile to Groove on Grove and the farmer's markets.
When you come out as being against community events, don't be surprised when the community doesn't support you as much as you would like.
Posted on: 2014/10/9 13:26
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Re: Downtown Jersey City businesses take on local farmers market
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Home away from home
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we had that one fishmonger who came for almost a whole summer about 3 years ago now but only on the monday I think. I would love to see a fish person back....
Posted on: 2014/10/9 13:01
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