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Is it the penthouse. I knew the owners of that place -the wife is a real estate agent and used to own the the candle shop next to Presto's on Warren. And the husband worked Deutche bank and made a killing.

The corner brownstone -no sure about the price. I thought it had 3 apartments that can be rented out? I walk by there everyday-- I would not want to live on the corner-- too much traffic and noise.

I don't think "loft" is the right word. It's an 11,000 square foot converted warehouse. It's a single family home -- not a unit in a larger building. I know some neighbors who have been inside, and it's as amazing as the pictures in the listing, but he's never going to get that kind of money. He definitely bought the building for under $1M, and I can't imagine he has more than $3M total invested in it.

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Did this loft ever sell? And what was the final price?

Somebody is smoking something -- $900,000 might seem a little low but $9 million -- I don't think so!
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Jon Stewart Purchases $5.8 Million Manhattan Loft

Jon Stewart has purchased a $5.8 million Manhattan loft, according to The New York Observer.

John Stewart recently bought a 6,000-square-foot Tribeca spread in the building that once housed the Wetlands Preserve, a nightclub with an environmental bent. The duplex penthouse has exposures on three sides, a 600-square-foot terrace and a private rooftop.

Prudential's Douglas Elliman had the listing.
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If it's the one on the west side of the street, I think it's just a condo for sale.

Does anyone know the asking price for the building on the corner of Warren and Grand?

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great deal if you need a skating rink....;)

amazing properties though.

Particularly the one for $9 mil close to Turnpike.

Did they add a zero by mistake?

Is it me, or does $2M for a brownstone seems kind of pass? these days?

361 - 363 1st Street, Jersey City : $8.95Million

But it's only $353 per sqft... ;)

$2.3M condo in Hamilton Park.

I noticed in the Lighthorse yesterday that someone had left sheets advertising their Sugar House unit (a 1609 sqft condo with views of the Statue) for 1.75million, which is about $1089 per sqft. Sounds like a lot, however the last to sell was a corner unit facing Essex (with basically no views), ~1800 sqft for 1.36million. i guess brownstones for 2million will soon be old news. can anyone confirm the 3million condo rumor?

I believe the $3M rowhouse is on York St. I don't know its number, but it's opposite the condo building: 104 York St.

The condo I can only assume is in the Sugarhouse. Correct?

Well.....here's something to cheer up some and discourage others.....Over the weekend, whilst watering the trees and flowers, a long-time local realtor (one I believe without question) paused in his appointed rounds and let slip that there were 2 pocket listings in PH for $3 million--one a rowhouse and the other a condo. I think I can guess where one is...but I'll be damned if I can figure out the second....any thoughts??

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It seems to be on the market for $1.85M

www.15warren.com

Past sale prices for 70 Sussex St from Domania.com

Address Sale Date Price Lot Size Tax Value

70 Sussex St Aug 02 $499,900 NA NA
70 Sussex St Jun 02 $530,000 NA NA
70 Sussex St May 02 $455,000 2265 $240,000
70 Sussex St Mar 99 $160,000 2265 $240,000
70 Sussex St Jun 98 $140,000 2265 $240,000

LeeLou, you misunderstood the point that I was making regarding why it is important to consider the rental income that a property could generate.

Here is an excerpt from an article in the Economist that I PM'd your husband. By the way, I read this article AFTER I made the post that you were responding to:

"The most compelling evidence that home prices are over-valued in many countries is the diverging relationship between house prices and rents. The ratio of prices to rents is a sort of price/earnings ratio for the housing market. Just as the price of a share should equal the discounted present value of future dividends, so the price of a house should reflect the future benefits of ownership, either as rental income for an investor or the rent saved by an owner-occupier.

Calculations by The Economist show that house prices have hit record levels in relation to rents in America, Britain, Australia, New Zealand, France, Spain, the Netherlands, Ireland and Belgium. This suggests that homes are even more over-valued than at previous peaks, from which prices typically fell in real terms. House prices are also at record levels in relation to incomes in these nine countries."


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Arguments for:

- Paulus Hook has a bunch of good schools.

- It's really more convenient to lower Manhattan than most of Manhattan is, and it's even reasonably convenient to businesses located in Brooklyn.

- The Statue of Liberty view is pretty cool.

- If energy prices stay home, many moderately affluent people (or wealthy, environmentally conscious people) who now drive in to Manhattan from distant suburbs might prefer to live in Paulus Hook.

Arguments against:

- I think that, overall, because of factors such as student loans and the high cost of nursing home care for parents, people under 45 are going to turn out to be quite a bit poorer at each age than people over 45 were at the same age. At some point, demand for expensive homes may drop dramatically.

- Paulus Hook is under a nuclear bull's eye. If terrorism becomes commonplace on U.S. soil, people might decide they'd rather not live next to either the Statue of Liberty or the Goldman Sachs building. Not to mention all the guys with rifles who show up periodically.

- At this point, the retail options in Paulus Hook are pitiful. Make fun of C-Town all you want, but, hot refrigerators and all, it still has a much better selection than the Green Cow.

- The air seems to be a lot cleaner in the Jersey City Heights, and there are a lot more nice, stand-alone single-family houses in the Heights. It seems to me that many people who can afford a $2 million house want a stand-alone house.

That's useful information. I tried just now to track down the
sales price of 70 suusex on the nice website at

www.nj.com/realestate/homesales

but they only keep the past 18mos of home sales.
Here's what I found for sussex:

Address: 136 Sussex ST , , , Jerseycity, NJ 07302 ? Map!
Date Sold: October 25, 2004
Date Officially Recorded: December 10, 2004
Sale Price: $ 920,000.00
Address: 144 Sussex ST , , , Jerseycity, NJ 07302 ? Map!
Date Sold: August 23, 2004
Date Officially Recorded: October 15, 2004
Sale Price: $ 273,000.00
Address: 149 Sussex ST , , , Jerseycity, NJ 07302 ? Map!
Date Sold: October 29, 2004
Date Officially Recorded: January 05, 2005
Sale Price: $ 1.00
Address: 149 Sussex ST , , , Jerseycity, NJ 07302 ? Map!
Date Sold: March 16, 2005
Date Officially Recorded: April 12, 2005
Sale Price: $ 191,000.00
Address: 151 Sussex ST , , , Jerseycity, NJ 07302 ? Map!
Date Sold: February 14, 2005
Date Officially Recorded: March 09, 2005
Sale Price: $ 375,000.00
Address: 151 Sussex ST , , , Jerseycity, NJ 07302 ? Map!
Date Sold: February 14, 2005
Date Officially Recorded: March 09, 2005
Sale Price: $ 375,000.00
Address: 151 Sussex ST , Unit/Apt: 000001, , , Jerseycity, NJ 07302 ? Map!
Date Sold: October 25, 2004
Date Officially Recorded: December 01, 2004
Sale Price: $ 375,000.00
Address: 156 Sussex ST , , , Jerseycity, NJ 07302 ? Map!
Date Sold: September 27, 2004
Date Officially Recorded: October 18, 2004
Sale Price: $ 672,500.00
Address: 61 Sussex ST , , , Jerseycity, NJ 07302 ? Map!
Date Sold: December 27, 2004
Date Officially Recorded: January 04, 2005
Sale Price: $ 420,000.00
Address: 61 Sussex ST , , , Jerseycity, NJ 07302 ? Map!
Date Sold: November 03, 2004
Date Officially Recorded: January 18, 2005
Sale Price: $ 652,000.00
Address: 61 Sussex ST , , , Jerseycity, NJ 07302 ? Map!
Date Sold: November 03, 2004
Date Officially Recorded: January 18, 2005
Sale Price: $ 652,000.00

This is undoubtedly a mix of 1bdrm condos and a
renovated townhouse or two.

I'd like to add the following disclamer:
IMHO returns are historical and past performance is no guarantee of future results.

Read this.

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70 Sussex is probably an interesting example, as you possibly know this was an empty lot 3+ years ago. The lot was purchased by John Bober, the same developer who constructed the new condos at 60 Morris and 61-63 Sussex.

I do not know how much John paid for the empty lot, I also don't know how much it cost to construct 71 Sussex (which is a three unit condo building), but actually looks like an old noble single family brownstone. The units originally sold for $455K (1000 sqft), $499K (1450 sqft) and $530K (1500+ sqft). Total: $1,484,000

The $530K unit (the PH), which John had built for his mother recently came back on the market about 4-months ago and sold in a matter of days for around $850K (possibly more), that's an approximately 60% increase. Calculate the same across the building and today's total market value for the three units would be $2.3M+.

I'd guess that an emtpy lot on Sussex would would sell for more than $1M at auction. Spend $500K on building the place and you've got an excellent one family. Spend probably the same and you could build 3 condos and walk away with maybe $1M in profit.

So the brownstone for sale on Sussex is $2M, and needs $300K spending on it to turn it into a one family = $2.3M. If it's 5000sqft in total that's $460 per sqft. Condo's in the Sugarhouse range from $780 per sqft to $1000 per sqft. I know you can't make a direct comparison between a full luxury condominium and a brownstone, however it does help shed some light onto how the $2M price was arrived at.

This is discouraging. We are planning to move from the suburbs to JC and have fallen for P-Hook. We like the
closeness to the waterfront, but moreso, my wife is polish and
the little polish community and church in P-Hook reminds
her of where she grew up in an ethnic part of toronto.

Generally speaking, since we are new to the JC real estate scene,
what is the incremental price (if any) from P-HOOK to VanVorst
park to Hamilton Park? Assuming there is an increment, what
justifies it? Closeness to waterfront? Ferries? other?

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I am so jealous. I love that building.....if you are a shrewd investor or ever decide to sell it otherwise....please let me know--what a buy for you!!!!!!

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In Paulus Hook? Probably not in a rowhouse...although if you are really game, I'd try 3 things. First, take a walk up Sussex at the very end...West of Warren..there are a couple of narrow rowhouses there that may still be for sale...and if not, take a look at the house on the South side of the street at mid-block that seems abandoned....you might be able to find out the story on that. Second there are still a very few empty lots left. One on Lower Sussex, one on upper Sussex, one on Morris, etc. If you could get permission to build something smaller like the old stationhouse (the picture you posted) you might get out of the whole thing for far less than an existing rowhouse. Third, call and talk to some of the people who have been here a long time and are real estate junkies....like Dan at DeRuggerio or Al Burr (a local builder/renovator) or Bill Grey an engineer who co-owns Lighthorse Tavern and who, I believe, still has a building crew on the side.) They've built and sold here for a long time and know virtually everything--all the little details.

Disclosure....Al renovated our rowhouse in '97 and we absolutely love it...and Dan is always trying to get us to sell it! I eat at Bill's and we were working on our buildings at the same time and shared equipment.....other than that, I'm not related to any of them. (And I'm sure other people can add to this list.)

Yes, agreed, it does have nice lines. I purchased the building in the picture.

The market in Paulus Hook is on fire, there are no bargains. I also believe that those waiting for the market to tank, thinking you?ll be able pickup a Paulus hook brownstone in a year or two for 10-20% less than the today?s prices do not understand the demographic change that continues to take place in downtown JC.

This thread touches upon it, but missed one important observation, namely the reason why brownstone buyer?s do not care that any potential rental income of the properties will not cover the standard 30-year fixed rate mortgage payment. Personally, I believe the reason for this is that new money is entering the Paulus Hook market. Figures which seem high are in fact relative bargains to those migrating from NYC?s real estate market. $2M to these buyers is not a lot of money.

When you compare the $2M brownstone on Sussex, which started this thread, to NYC property or even the price of condos in the Sugarhouse and MG, I?m left with the conclusion that you?ve missed-the-boat if you think $1M will buy you a brownstone in Paulus Hook. Budget $1.3M to $2M, and in my opinion, come back next year with $1.5M to $2.3M. Why the continued price rise? Interest rates rises will not matter, these new buyers are flush with cash. In 18-months time all new construction in Paulus Hook will have finished. And other then a couple of empty lots on Morris and Sussex which selling for $800K+, there is no more land. The new development of Liberty Harbor North looks like they are building brownstones and rowhouse, but they are in fact two/three story condos made to look like single family homes. Therefore, there will be no more large single family brownstones or rowhouses constructed, and these few properties will slowly but surely become the grand homes to doctors, lawyers, CEOs and Walls St. types.

Paulus Hook will be a very different place in 5 to 10 years time, maybe not better but certainly more affluent.

It was on the market for about 3 days. I've always liked it. By the time the realtor called me back, it was sold. Apparently the new owner is renting it.

Any scoop on this? It has great lines but moreso a 4sale sign on it!

http://jclist.com/modules/xcgal/displ ... lbum=random&pos=-182&cat=

You can expect to see maybe one brownstone/rowhouse on the market per year in Paulus Hook, daroogle. They just don't come on the market that often.

I can't afford $2M either -- does anyone know of anything
else available in P-Hook that I can turn into a spacious 1-fam?

It might be expensive but they sure look nice. Wish I could afford it

Today from cnn.com:

"The Fed has raised interest rates in nine quarter-percentage point steps since June last year to 3.25 percent and is expected by financial markets to keep going to around 4.0 percent by the end of 2005."

If you hold all other variables constant, and increase in interest rate by .75% will decrease the sale price of property in JC and everywhere else where the US$ is the currency of choice. Bye bye cheap credit.

I'm voting with Steveikin....I think your view(s) contain an a priori (and negative) view about the waterfront area in JC that I don't share.... so here are some factors that could push the value up a PH building well over that price.

1. Some historic buildings are narrow, others as large as 25'

2. Some 100+ year-old buildings are regular depth--others were completely extended and have 1/3rd more space.

3. Some P-Hook buildings have parking for 2 or more cars--either at the building or, like the corner of Washington and Sussex, just steps away. (This is virtually unheard of in most historic rowhouses.)

4. Some buildings have up to three apartments in addition to the owner's space.

5. Some gut re-builds use the historical items (existing stairs, mantles, details etc.) but are re-plumbed, wired, insulated, etc. to create a totally modern house inside the old shell (or go beyond even that...see Sussex just West of Warren--a new level of renovation).

So here's the question...how much does a 100+ year old, yet completely modern 5000+ sq/ft building with 2 parking spaces two blocks from 3 forms of transportation--and near the water-- in a tree-lined beautiful neigborhood a 10 minute commute from downtown cost in NYC? Rough guess...wait a second...they don't even really exist. Any rowhouse 2 blocks from the water in Manhattan is 15 min from any public transport. That same bulding in the upper 80's would be about $8-12 million.

For that matter, what would a 5000 sq/ft house with all modern features but historical detailing be worth in Short Hills? So what about it being in JC makes it lose all of that value????

Also, where in NYC can you get into your car in 2 minutes, and drive 5 minutes to a mall, movie, 2 supermarkets--or get out of the city via the Turnpike without going through a tunnel or over a bridge??? (I know, in NYC you can walk, but on those 33 degree days when the wind is blowing the rain in your face, a car sounds PRETTY good.)

The only reason you would find $2mm odd is because we're all in the "its just Jersey City" mindset. (Thank goodness my wife talked me out of that 8 years ago when we could still afford to buy here!!!! That was when people were saying how could ANYONE ever even THINK about one of these selling for $600k--which appalled many in 1997.) In truth, these historic buildings in P-Hook are probably worth (and will probably rise to) well over that as the constant construction on Greene and the end of Warren ends and people around here wake up one morning to find they are living in just about the nicest place you can imagine! Also, more will be divided for condos, further reducing the number of remaining full houses (or buildings that can be converted back into a full house) to a small number.

But, as always, I could be mistaken!!!!