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Compare: we are not trying to prohibit the freedom of speech, but just because you have a permit to speak, it doesn't allow you to speak in public!

Does THAT sound like a convincing explanation to you? Neither to us.

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This is called "strawman". We were talking self-defense. You decided that it would be easier to argue against "vigilante", so you pretend that it is what's being advocated. I have to tell you that this technique doesn't work all that well. It only looks easy when Obama does it in front of the press, because the press is not about to try to call him up that trick.

Now, if you throw away that "vigilante" part, - you would have to claim that it is one thing to defend yourself in your home, and another to do it in the street. Hmmm...

Are you going to argue that at home you can be less responsible about justification, or less prudent about the manner of use of weapons, or less proficient with the weapon?

I hope this is not what you have in mind.

But if not, - what DO you have in mind?

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My girlfriend was able to aim accurately after about 10 minutes of instructions.

What's your estimate, how many rounds does an average Jersey City, or New York City cop fires in training each year? What is their qualification exercise? I presume you know the answers, - otherwise you would not be making the statement you made.

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I would be interested to learn about the basis of this claim. I've read a number of accounts where people from all walks of life and all age groups, - from teenagers to the most senior citizens, - did quite fine when they had to use weapons in defense.

Those are anecdotal accounts, but they prove that it is quite possible to defend oneself. Now, to claim that to succeed is less likely than to make it worse - you must have some basis, no? Like, personal experience, or statistics may be?

Or did you admonish us to "be real" without any footing in aforementioned reality whatsoever?

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Didn't you notice that this totally rejects the argument you advanced just a few lines above?

No? You don't see it? Well, let me walk you through:

1. You argued that carrying a weapon is not going to help people defend themselves,

2. The law you mentioned is based on the totally opposite assumption that weapons DO in fact help people to defend themselves!

Funny, isn't it?

I am glad to see you are so willing to give your freedoms away. I know exactly what the laws are and I am trying to let others know the mindless, idiotic laws that the communist state on NJ has on its books. I have always and will continue to advocate that responsible trained individuals have an inalienable right to protect themselves in their home and outside of it.

I would rather trust myself in a defensive situation then a lot of the cops I see out there. When your life is on the line, no one appreciates it more then the person fighting for it.

That being said, it is not for everyone and in no way am I trying to take the law into my own hands. There is great responsibility with carrying a gun as well as driving a car.

Don?t you feel betrayed that 1500 people are more important then yourself. I am extremely annoyed that those 1#?ers are giving the opportunity. There are 38 states where shall issue is law to anyone who wants a concealed carry permit as long as they are law abiding citizen. There are another 6 that no permit is even required and then there is NJ, NJ and CA which don?t trust their citizens.

Aren?t you upset that you can?t take your registered handgun across state lines even is you own a home in another state. That is ridiculous especially after going through all the paperwork that NJ requires. I had to have three neighbors and my employer verify along with FBI and finger prints before they would even consider me for my handgun and yes I know how to use it.

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#1 Guns are not going to be outlawed in NJ or any other state. Even the most liberal policy-makers wouldn't argue for that. Let's cut the hyperbole.

HOWEVER, just because you have a permit to own and operate a firearm doesn't allow you to carry a concealed, loaded weapon.

Only about 1,500 people in NJ can legally carry a concealed weapon (see below). A standard firearm permit does not allow you to carry a concealed weapon, and if you need to transport the weapon (say to go hunting or to a shooting range) it must be unloaded and in a case, separate from any ammunition. I know this because I have a permit to own firearms and hunt in NJ.

Have you actually shot a handgun richieveal? How about in a high-stress situation, in a populated urban environment? It's one thing to face down a burglar with a shotgun in your home and quite another to play vigilante justice in the street without training. Handguns are much harder to aim accurately. (Look at how often cops miss their targets, and they receive regular training.) Most law abiding citizens would have their gun stripped away and used against them OR end up hurting innocents while trying to play hero OR shooting themselves ala Plaxico.

Let's be real buddy. Going out armed with handguns is not going to help law-abiding citizens. Also, it's just not going to happen in the most densely populated state in the country.

New Jersey Concealed Carry Permit Information:
Issuance of the permit is almost completely discretionary, and New Jersey courts have upheld the policy of strictly limiting permits ?to persons specifically employed in security work . . . and to others who can establish an urgent necessity for carrying guns for self-protection.?

I too am happy that the women are alright. If I were emperor and the thugs were caught, there would be a public stoning!

Thank God the women are ok, but if I were in that situation I can tell you I would have wished I was allowed to have a concealed weapon. Remember when guns are outlawed, only criminals will have them. Talk to your lawmakers to tell them responsible law abiding citizens have a right to defend themselves.

I'm just thinking to myself...not on MLK..in JC????
Never that, 4am is soo busy with plenty of people out, someone had to have seen something! Or should of tried to help or stop this from happening. I mean, they all have guns there and could gave a helping hand to these ladies.

yes thanks I just saw it...

Police were called to Bostwick Avenue near Martin Luther King Drive at 4:18 a.m. on a report of two women lying in the street, reports said.

Is this what you are referring to?

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... y_women_robbed_of_de.html

I was watching Fox 5 news at 10 pm Saturday night. I just missed a piece about someone getting mugged in JC. A car pulled up with guys carrying shotguns and demanded money. It seemed like a decent street. Didn?t catch the street name. Did anyone see the news Saturday night?

I can?t find anything on the web. Hey JJ could you dig it up from the police reports for Monday?