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Re: path/subway searches
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Home away from home
 
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2008/10/19 1:18 Last Login : 2020/9/25 20:40 From somewhere else
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OMG - I never thought if I lived to be 500 I'd be in agreement with the Dirty one, but I am. And I'm nowhere near 500! I'm also with Ian - it's complete theater. There was a great article in the Atlantic (subsequently covered by 60 minutes) in which the author follows a guy who figures out how to breech airport security repeatedly - even getting a gun on a plane at one point. What makes everyone feel as though they are safe just because they get searched once in a while at the PATH and on their way into a ball game? If I were a "terrorist", I'd go blow up a mall, or a museum or any of the thousands of other places where a lot of people gather that don't have security. You are never going to eliminate the possibility of this stuff happening. Better to find a way to make peace with the world than to pursue the impossibility of guaranteed safety.
Posted on: 2010/1/23 23:43
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They did get a guy with fireworks when they first started doing the seaches. OMG WE ARE SO SAFE NOW.
Posted on: 2010/1/23 22:49
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Home away from home
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Being at WTC during the crisis makes you no more of an authority on National Security than the people of Haiti are now earthquake experts.
Posted on: 2010/1/23 15:28
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Quite a regular
 
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I go to the airport, but there EVERYONE is checked which is the airlines' policy. It's the random checks that I don't agree with. Many time I've seen the cops poking around in the purses of good looking women only. If the PATH changed the policy to EVERYONE gets searched, then I'll oblige in order to ride the train. And now with the shoe and underwear bombers, why are only bags searched? I guess till someone tries to set off a shoe explosive on the train, we will only be subjected to random bag searches. It's a flawed policy as I was able to ride the train that day after refusing to the search. Again, How many times have the bag searches caught a terrorist?
Posted on: 2010/1/23 15:14
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Quite a regular
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Here's an eyewitness account from a man who was on the flight with the underwear bomber. Who was the man in the suit? Why was this guy allowed to go around security? Why was he allowed on without a passport? http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/ind ... _passenger_kurt_hask.html " For the last five days I have been reporting my story of the so called "sharp dressed man." For those of you who haven't read my account, it involves a sharp dressed "Indian man" attempting to talk a ticket agent into letting a supposed "Sudanese refugee" (The terrorist) onto flight 253 without a passport. I have never had any idea how it played out except to note that the so called "Sudanese reefugee" later boarded my flight and attempted to blow it up and kill me....... The importance of my story was and always will be, the attempt with an accomplice (apparently succesful) of a terrorist with all sorts of prior terrorist warning signs to skirt the normal passport boarding procedures in Amsterdam. By the way, Amsterdam security did come out the other day and admit that the terrorist did not have to "Go through normal passport checking procedures"."
Posted on: 2010/1/23 15:05
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Home away from home
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I wouldnt say that the Shoe Bomber or the Underwear Bomber showed even average amounts of resourcefulness, intelligence or competence, which is very fortunate for us. The Underwear Bomber did not check luggage which should have really tipped off security for extra screening if they were following post 9/11 procedures (Remember that you said earlier you would 'absolutely' like to go back to pre-9/11 levels of security. In his case because procedures were not followed, we effectively had pre-9/11 security and he was nearly successful). In the case of the Shoe Bomber he did, just as you said, return the next day after he was initially turned away by security to try to fly again the next day. The extra day is thought to be why the explosives did not detonate.
Posted on: 2010/1/23 12:59
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Bin Laden has told us why 9/11 happened -- because we occupy the Middle East. His explicit goal is to get us to bankrupt ourselves, which will cause social disorder. We are bankrupting ourselves. We are our own worst enemy. Wake up.
Posted on: 2010/1/23 6:37
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Oh, yes, because a guy who has dedicated months training and planning, spent hundreds if not thousands of dollars obtaining supplies, and who believes God's destiny for him is killing infidels is probably stupid enough to consent to a random bag search and get himself caught before executing his plan for mass murder. Because a guy dedicating his life to blowing something up wouldn't just pull the trigger right then and there, and he certainly wouldn't just try again the next day. Absolutely. I see your point.
Or maybe the real problem is people like continually underestimating the resourcefulness, intelligence, and determination of these zealots.
Posted on: 2010/1/23 5:25
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9/11 happened because we became lax and people like ianmac's mentality of too liberal allowed terrorists to successfully do their deed. We show we are aware then it will help deter what they are planning in our soil.
I speak from experienced. Being in the place where terror struck and losing colleagues while running amok don't know where to go will change ones way of life.
Posted on: 2010/1/22 19:12
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are you one of those who prefer something happened first and then act upon it? you sound like you never worked at the World Trade Center when terrorists struck twice to think the way you do. I've been in both buildings when terror struck that's why I welcome the searches random or not. Like i said, until you experienced terror first hand all methods of being safe is a welcome relief
Posted on: 2010/1/22 18:59
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Like I said: political theater for the simple minded.
Posted on: 2010/1/22 18:46
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Home away from home
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Random searches at least will stop would-be terrorists to do the deed. AT LEAST.
Posted on: 2010/1/22 17:05
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We shouldn't even compare the security or lack thereof between Airports and the Path. Let's get real now!
Airport has millions of people coming and going... tight or not security will have its holes.. unfortunately. All it takes is to comply. If you got something to hide then that's on you.
Posted on: 2010/1/22 17:04
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when 1993 WTC Bombing occured we never had the type of security we do now when 9/11 happened. If we did 9/11 would never happened or it would be stopped before it did. FYI: Trucks such as Ryder Rentals were searched thoroughly when it entered the WTC garages - I worked at the Twin Towers therefore I know. All these searches and added securities will never happened if terrorism have never reached our soil.
Posted on: 2010/1/22 16:59
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It doesn't really matter. Someone determined to do harm will figure out a way to do it whether or not they have box cutters or shampoo or tweezers. Quote:
Absolutely. Current airport security is absurd, not to mention that a Shoe Bomber and an Underwear Bomber got through security despite all the extra measures. Even if pre-flight gynecological exams and colonoscopies were mandatory, security will never be tight enough to prevent a determined terrorist. The only way to prevent terrorism is better vigilance before they get to the airport, before they arrive in this country, before they even leave their training camps.
Posted on: 2010/1/22 16:46
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Do you think it's easier or harder to get a box cutter on a plane as a result of changes since 9/11? Would you prefer to going back to the level of security before 9/11?
Posted on: 2010/1/22 16:07
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I'm sure if everyone would be a lot safer if Ryder Rental trucks had bag searches as a requirement to rent a truck, although searching the bags of airplane passengers didn't really stop 9/11.
Posted on: 2010/1/22 15:44
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Home away from home
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+googol Of course how could you know if you were traveling with someone who had refused a search at another station? Maybe someone should start a website where people can post pictures of people who refuse to take the search (like they do for the food pigs).
Posted on: 2010/1/22 14:59
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Home away from home
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ThirdRail wrote: Quote:
Posted on: 2010/1/22 14:40
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Home away from home
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If a terrorist gets into the PATH station and gets to the bag search area, then law enforcement has already failed on too many levels. National security at the retail level is nothing more than political theater designed to make the simple minded feel safe.
Posted on: 2010/1/22 14:21
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Quite a regular
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then the policy should be to search everyone and not at random, like at an airport. A guest? I can't say I've ever been searched or paid a fee when I was a guest in someone's home. That was a big stretch in trying to make the comparison there.
Posted on: 2010/1/22 12:49
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Home away from home
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It's better with some search then no search at all. What about the safety of all the employees on the train system ? You are a guest on their train when you are a guest in someone's home you should abide by their rules, similar to a dress code at an establishment. Even when you "pay" a cover charge you get searched before entering and leave when told to or at closing which ever comes first. It's better with some search then no search at all.
Posted on: 2010/1/22 12:19
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Quite a regular
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by keeping my freedom and proving it doesn't work. I was laughing at how I was told "if you refuse the search, you will not be allowed to travel on the PATH today." Well I travelled on the PATH twice that day. What would stop someone with a bomb from doing the same thing I did? Just go to another station and get on the train. It's a system that doesn't work. How many terrorists have these bag searches caught?
Posted on: 2010/1/22 12:00
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Home away from home
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and you win....how?
Posted on: 2010/1/22 4:15
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Home away from home
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I really don't get what the big deal is. How hard is it to comply with the searches? I say better safe than sorry. I got searched even when they saw my work badge or carrying a small bag where explosives won't fit I still complied with the Police when they asks to search my bag.
I would be weary if one refused a search and they're taking the same train and station with me. It only takes seconds folks! I've been through the 1993 WTC Bombing and 9/11. I'll be damned if some people in our midst will try to take us down again by refusing to be searched.
Posted on: 2010/1/22 4:06
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Home away from home
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Press Release Article
SECURITY ADVISORY FOR PORT AUTHORITY FACILITIES -- BAGS CARRIED BY TRAVELERS USING PATH, PORT AUTHORITY BUS TERMINAL AND AIRTRAIN SYSTEMS SUBJECT TO INSPECTION BEGINNING MONDAY, JULY 25 Date: Jul 22, 2005 Press Release Number: 87-2005 Beginning Monday, July 25, bags, luggage and packages carried by travelers using the Port Authority?s PATH rapid-transit system, the Port Authority Bus Terminal, AirTrain JFK and AirTrain Newark will be subject to inspection by Port Authority Police. On PATH, searches will be conducted before travelers reach the fare collection area, and travelers not wishing to participate will not be allowed to enter the PATH system. At the bus terminal, checks will be made at the passenger gates, and travelers not wishing to participate will be asked to leave the terminal. On the AirTrain systems, checks will be made at the fare gates, and travelers not wishing to participate will not be allowed to enter the systems. These actions will supplement police protocols at these facilities. The Port Authority strongly encourages the users of its facilities to immediately report any suspicious activity to its hotline number ? 800 828-7273. **************************** Port authority website?(nice doggy!) http://www.panynj.gov/path/security.html
Posted on: 2010/1/21 18:25
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Home away from home
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Late for work? how? there are 3 other stations in JC. Not worth it. I'll let the police see inside my bag and be on my way.
Posted on: 2010/1/21 17:54
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Home away from home
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The one time they searched my bag is when I had a giant puppet in it I got for my friend's kid's birthday.
Posted on: 2010/1/21 16:25
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Quite a regular
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Late for work? how? there are 3 other stations in JC. I've refused the search, left the station (Grove St), got in a cab to Newport, got on the train, and it only took an extra 5 minutes.
Posted on: 2010/1/21 16:02
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Home away from home
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I think the study below is what motivated the bag searches. So long as they dont overstep their bounds I welcome these searches based on this study and the identical threats and plot they disrupted. I would hate to have to go tunnel swimming: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/22/nyregion/22security.html
Here is more detail: http://www.nefafoundation.org/miscellaneous/PATH_Plot.pdf Why on earth do they even publish things like this? Seems like it just exposes vulnerabilities for those who might want to capitalize on them. NJ passed a law that makes it a felony burglary charge for trespassing (misdemeanor) on RR property. All in the name of terrorism, this to me is just plain madness...as if a terrorist would be deterred because he is afraid to catch a criminal charge.
Posted on: 2010/1/21 15:50
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