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Re: Saint Bridget's Church

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Welcome Rich!

Posted on: 2016/9/14 19:40

Re: Saint Bridget's Church

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Wonderfully apropos Mao.

I'll reread it a number of times I'm sure.

Thank you for your prescience.

Rich.

Posted on: 2016/9/14 14:00

Re: Saint Bridget's Church

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Quote:

Wishful_Thinking wrote:
Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
...That is why churches that close should be dismantled a transferred to where Catholic live.

I'm curious, are you really serious? A church - the building, not the congregation - was a reflection of the aspiration and aesthetic of the people and place were it was built. Shouldn't a new church reflect the people and place? Not that there isn't a precedent for moving entire buildings, including churches - look at Our Lady of Lourdes Roman Catholic Church on West 142nd Street in Manhattan, which was built from the stone of several older churches. But why deprive one community of a beautiful work of architecture, and another of an opportunity to build something of it's time and place?

Some of the newer churches in the South I hope are temporary structures, they look awful, so yes, Catholic Churches should move to where the population is.

Posted on: 2016/9/9 16:19

Re: Saint Bridget's Church

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I think Wishful Thinking has a point. If Christians fail and the temple is deserted, at least its ruins remind those who are here what went before.

Here is one of my favorite poems by an old nasty atheist,
poetry | prints | cine | home

Philip Larkin - Church Going

Once I am sure there's nothing going on
I step inside, letting the door thud shut.
Another church: matting, seats, and stone,
And little books; sprawlings of flowers, cut
For Sunday, brownish now; some brass and stuff
Up at the holy end; the small neat organ;
And a tense, musty, unignorable silence,
Brewed God knows how long. Hatless, I take off
My cycle-clips in awkward reverence.

Move forward, run my hand around the font.
From where I stand, the roof looks almost new -
Cleaned, or restored? Someone would know: I don't.
Mounting the lectern, I peruse a few
Hectoring large-scale verses, and pronounce
'Here endeth' much more loudly than I'd meant.
The echoes snigger briefly. Back at the door
I sign the book, donate an Irish sixpence,
Reflect the place was not worth stopping for.

Yet stop I did: in fact I often do,
And always end much at a loss like this,
Wondering what to look for; wondering, too,
When churches will fall completely out of use
What we shall turn them into, if we shall keep
A few cathedrals chronically on show,
Their parchment, plate and pyx in locked cases,
And let the rest rent-free to rain and sheep.
Shall we avoid them as unlucky places?

Or, after dark, will dubious women come
To make their children touch a particular stone;
Pick simples for a cancer; or on some
Advised night see walking a dead one?
Power of some sort will go on
In games, in riddles, seemingly at random;
But superstition, like belief, must die,
And what remains when disbelief has gone?
Grass, weedy pavement, brambles, buttress, sky,

A shape less recognisable each week,
A purpose more obscure. I wonder who
Will be the last, the very last, to seek
This place for what it was; one of the crew
That tap and jot and know what rood-lofts were?
Some ruin-bibber, randy for antique,
Or Christmas-addict, counting on a whiff
Of gown-and-bands and organ-pipes and myrrh?
Or will he be my representative,

Bored, uninformed, knowing the ghostly silt
Dispersed, yet tending to this cross of ground
Through suburb scrub because it held unspilt
So long and equably what since is found
Only in separation - marriage, and birth,
And death, and thoughts of these - for which was built
This special shell? For, though I've no idea
What this accoutred frowsty barn is worth,
It pleases me to stand in silence here;

A serious house on serious earth it is,
In whose blent air all our compulsions meet,
Are recognized, and robed as destinies.
And that much never can be obsolete,
Since someone will forever be surprising
A hunger in himself to be more serious,
And gravitating with it to this ground,
Which, he once heard, was proper to grow wise in,
If only that so many dead lie round.

Posted on: 2016/9/9 15:46

Wishful_Thinking

Re: Saint Bridget's Church

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Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
...That is why churches that close should be dismantled a transferred to where Catholic live.

I'm curious, are you really serious? A church - the building, not the congregation - was a reflection of the aspiration and aesthetic of the people and place were it was built. Shouldn't a new church reflect the people and place? Not that there isn't a precedent for moving entire buildings, including churches - look at Our Lady of Lourdes Roman Catholic Church on West 142nd Street in Manhattan, which was built from the stone of several older churches. But why deprive one community of a beautiful work of architecture, and another of an opportunity to build something of it's time and place?

Posted on: 2016/9/9 15:33

Re: Saint Bridget's Church

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Keely is the architecht. http://www.patrickkeely.com/

He was remarkably diverse- from St. Michael's neo classical, to Bridget's English Gothic, to St. Patrick's French Gothic.

And yes, it was an Irish congregation.

The Latin Mass congregation downtown keeps begging the archidiocese to give us a church. They would rather give it to anyone but a traditional Catholic.

Posted on: 2016/9/9 15:31

Re: Saint Bridget's Church

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Let's hope it does not follow the fate of the Limelight in NYC. I remember reading the articles of drugs and other activities that took place in a former church.

Posted on: 2016/9/9 15:26

Wishful_Thinking

Re: Saint Bridget's Church

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Quote:

fikonj wrote:
4th St Arts announcing Cathedral Hall venue

It's a beautiful building! I'm assuming it historically was an Irish-Catholic congregation? I've worked on several in NYC, and the use of simple, brick Gothic style was common. Does anyone know who the architect was?

This will be a really nice project - churches are one of the hardest historic building types to adapt for re-use, once the congregation moves on. In NYC, the preservation community has struggled mightily to preserve many of the old synagogues and keep them from being demolished. While it's always sad to lose a place the community is familiar with, here is an good opportunity to preserve beautiful, irreplaceable, architecture for a new use and the public to enjoy.

Posted on: 2016/9/9 15:12

Re: Saint Bridget's Church

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Quote:

JCGuys wrote:
Quote:

Mao wrote:
Just goes to show you that the most effective enemies of Christianity these days appear to be the priests and bishops who, while doing anything but evangelizing, sell off the precious patrimony that previous generations sacrificed for. The 4th Street Arts people are not to blame. They think they have saved a building, and I guess they have.

I put a lot of blame on us Catholic laypeople. How many proclaim to be Catholic, but never attend mass or live a Christian lifestyle? Churches like Saint Bridget's would not be facing demolition if the community it served was financially supported it. Agree with you on the bishops, however, as they make the call.

You are partially right, but you must recognize, many Catholics are leaving the Northeast and settling in states with low taxes. If you attend Masses there it is standing room only. That is why churches that close should be dismantled a transferred to where Catholic live. On a personal note, I do attend Mass, I believe in the sacraments.

Posted on: 2016/9/8 18:42

JCGuys

Re: Saint Bridget's Church

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Quote:

Mao wrote:
Just goes to show you that the most effective enemies of Christianity these days appear to be the priests and bishops who, while doing anything but evangelizing, sell off the precious patrimony that previous generations sacrificed for. The 4th Street Arts people are not to blame. They think they have saved a building, and I guess they have.

I put a lot of blame on us Catholic laypeople. How many proclaim to be Catholic, but never attend mass or live a Christian lifestyle? Churches like Saint Bridget's would not be facing demolition if the community it served was financially supported it. Agree with you on the bishops, however, as they make the call.

Posted on: 2016/9/8 14:10

Re: Saint Bridget's Church

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The man who disbelieves in any future life whatever is also a believer in Hell. For in this life one makes, now and then, important decisions; or at least allows circumstances to decide; and some of these decisions are such as have consequences for all the rest of our mortal life. Some people find themselves consequently in circumstances such that the whole of their mortal life must be a torment to them. And if there is no future life, then Hell is, for such people, here and now.
?T.S. Eliot, from a letter to Paul Elmer More, August 10,1932

Posted on: 2016/9/8 13:29

Re: Saint Bridget's Church

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People here mock religion but here is what St. Augustine said: "Therefore, few are saved in comparison to those who are damned."

Posted on: 2016/9/7 22:25

heights

Re: Saint Bridget's Church

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Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Quote:

SOS wrote:
Quote:

Mao wrote:
Just goes to show you that the most effective enemies of Christianity these days appear to be the priests and bishops who, while doing anything but evangelizing, sell off the precious patrimony that previous generations sacrificed for. The 4th Street Arts people are not to blame. They think they have saved a building, and I guess they have. They along with most priests, including the Pope, have zero sense of the sacred- just walk in any Mass these days with the fey priest acting like Oprah and talking all about himself in some narcissitic frenzy. The idea of a Catholic Church is that it is the porta caeli, the gate of heaven, where the sacrifice of Calvary is renacted in the bloodless sacrifice of the Mass, a recaptiulation of all the sacrifices of Ancient Israel and of Our Lord on Calvary. Having the church turned over to Indie Rock events with the band set up in front of the high altar, the site of the Holy of Holies is just too painful for any true Catholic. Canon law does not even contemplate the possiblity of a Church being abadondoned like this.

As for the bad priests, of course, there are exceptions- good, holy self sacrificing priests who would die a martyr's death. But these good priests are an embarrassment to the rest and they get the worst assignements, etc. The Archdiocese has wanted to close either or both Holy Rosary and St. Anthony. Stay tuned to that. Maybe in 20 years there will be one Catholic Church left in Jersey City, down from 25 and the population will be like 350,000, up from 275,000. Such is the new spring time of Vatican II.

The Catholic Church is working on an app to replace the physical church, which has now been rendered obsolete. Think of it like Pokemon Go, but instead of Snorlax and Dratini, search for True Cross, Holy Water, Salvation, Blessed Virgin (rare!) etc.

You cannot replace the 7 sacraments with an app.

If there's a will there's a way.

Posted on: 2016/9/7 21:48

Get on your bikes and ride !

Re: Saint Bridget's Church

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Yes, with apologies to Feurabach, I still believe in Heaven. Indeed, I believe in the Four Last Things: Death, Judgement Heaven and Hell. Because of his transcendence, God cannot be seen as he is, unless he himself opens up his mystery to man's immediate contemplation and gives him the capacity for it. The Church calls this contemplation of God in his heavenly glory "the beatific vision":How great will your glory and happiness be, to be allowed to see God, to be honored with sharing the joy of salvation and eternal light with Christ your Lord and God, . . . to delight in the joy of immortality in the Kingdom of heaven with the righteous and God's friends.6

Posted on: 2016/9/7 19:52

Re: Saint Bridget's Church

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Probably not far from the truth SOS.

Posted on: 2016/9/7 17:21

Re: Saint Bridget's Church

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Quote:

SOS wrote:
Quote:

Mao wrote:
Just goes to show you that the most effective enemies of Christianity these days appear to be the priests and bishops who, while doing anything but evangelizing, sell off the precious patrimony that previous generations sacrificed for. The 4th Street Arts people are not to blame. They think they have saved a building, and I guess they have. They along with most priests, including the Pope, have zero sense of the sacred- just walk in any Mass these days with the fey priest acting like Oprah and talking all about himself in some narcissitic frenzy. The idea of a Catholic Church is that it is the porta caeli, the gate of heaven, where the sacrifice of Calvary is renacted in the bloodless sacrifice of the Mass, a recaptiulation of all the sacrifices of Ancient Israel and of Our Lord on Calvary. Having the church turned over to Indie Rock events with the band set up in front of the high altar, the site of the Holy of Holies is just too painful for any true Catholic. Canon law does not even contemplate the possiblity of a Church being abadondoned like this.

As for the bad priests, of course, there are exceptions- good, holy self sacrificing priests who would die a martyr's death. But these good priests are an embarrassment to the rest and they get the worst assignements, etc. The Archdiocese has wanted to close either or both Holy Rosary and St. Anthony. Stay tuned to that. Maybe in 20 years there will be one Catholic Church left in Jersey City, down from 25 and the population will be like 350,000, up from 275,000. Such is the new spring time of Vatican II.

The Catholic Church is working on an app to replace the physical church, which has now been rendered obsolete. Think of it like Pokemon Go, but instead of Snorlax and Dratini, search for True Cross, Holy Water, Salvation, Blessed Virgin (rare!) etc.

You cannot replace the 7 sacraments with an app.

Posted on: 2016/9/7 16:05

SOS

Re: Saint Bridget's Church

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Quote:

Mao wrote:
Just goes to show you that the most effective enemies of Christianity these days appear to be the priests and bishops who, while doing anything but evangelizing, sell off the precious patrimony that previous generations sacrificed for. The 4th Street Arts people are not to blame. They think they have saved a building, and I guess they have. They along with most priests, including the Pope, have zero sense of the sacred- just walk in any Mass these days with the fey priest acting like Oprah and talking all about himself in some narcissitic frenzy. The idea of a Catholic Church is that it is the porta caeli, the gate of heaven, where the sacrifice of Calvary is renacted in the bloodless sacrifice of the Mass, a recaptiulation of all the sacrifices of Ancient Israel and of Our Lord on Calvary. Having the church turned over to Indie Rock events with the band set up in front of the high altar, the site of the Holy of Holies is just too painful for any true Catholic. Canon law does not even contemplate the possiblity of a Church being abadondoned like this.

As for the bad priests, of course, there are exceptions- good, holy self sacrificing priests who would die a martyr's death. But these good priests are an embarrassment to the rest and they get the worst assignements, etc. The Archdiocese has wanted to close either or both Holy Rosary and St. Anthony. Stay tuned to that. Maybe in 20 years there will be one Catholic Church left in Jersey City, down from 25 and the population will be like 350,000, up from 275,000. Such is the new spring time of Vatican II.

The Catholic Church is working on an app to replace the physical church, which has now been rendered obsolete. Think of it like Pokemon Go, but instead of Snorlax and Dratini, search for True Cross, Holy Water, Salvation, Blessed Virgin (rare!) etc.

Posted on: 2016/9/7 15:27

Re: Saint Bridget's Church

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RichMauro wrote:
Yvonne, do you usually answer questions posed to others?

Only if it is an attack on people of faith. Then I cannot wait to answer.

Posted on: 2016/9/7 2:01

Re: Saint Bridget's Church

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Yvonne, do you usually answer questions posed to others?

Posted on: 2016/9/7 1:37

psyop

Re: Saint Bridget's Church

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Yvonne wrote:
Treating people equally? Really, you just dismissed people who believe in God with the hope of Heaven. You are a hypocrite, psyop. The first person you attacked on this subject was Mao. Liberals are a bunch of phonies. You hide behind the word equality but never give that to people of faith.

I don't even know who that is, I was calling you out.
Waste of my time arguing with someone so out of touch with reality in pretty much anything.

Posted on: 2016/9/7 1:18

Re: Saint Bridget's Church

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Treating people equally? Really, you just dismissed people who believe in God with the hope of Heaven. You are a hypocrite, psyop. The first person you attacked on this subject was Mao. Liberals are a bunch of phonies. You hide behind the word equality but never give that to people of faith.

Posted on: 2016/9/7 1:09

psyop

Re: Saint Bridget's Church

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Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Quote:

psyop wrote:
Some who believe in god are bigots and hang mongers

And I am supposed to believe what you say with the name, psyop? If the name was important, you would at least give it a capital P. Your name is a joke, therefore your belief is a joke.

My belief that all people are treated equally is a joke? Thanks for showing your true colors. And who gives s*it about whether a name is capitalized or not.

Posted on: 2016/9/7 0:59

Re: Saint Bridget's Church

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Quote:

psyop wrote:
Some who believe in god are bigots and hang mongers

And I am supposed to believe what you say with the name, psyop? If the name was important, you would at least give it a capital P. Your name is a joke, therefore your belief is a joke.

Posted on: 2016/9/7 0:48

psyop

Re: Saint Bridget's Church

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Some who believe in god are bigots and hang mongers

Posted on: 2016/9/7 0:11

Re: Saint Bridget's Church

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RichMauro wrote:
Whew!!

You still believe in heaven Mao?

For those who believe in God, yes, many believe in heaven.

Posted on: 2016/9/6 23:08

Re: Saint Bridget's Church

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Whew!!

You still believe in heaven Mao?

Posted on: 2016/9/6 22:23

Re: Saint Bridget's Church

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The building should be taken apart brick by brick and transfer to places where Catholics are worshiping in the South. When St. Peter's church closed, they transferred the baptismal font to St. Brigid. This was the font that was in the original church built in the early 1800s.

Posted on: 2016/9/6 21:20