If anyone here is interested:

I would like to do a couple of real world evaluations to see how the numbers work out with this new incentive program. This is something I will be presenting to my employer to see if it is something we will be pursuing in the future, so there is no charge. I suspect with cheap gas and outrageously expensive electricity in this state, the payback will be pretty good. I won\'t know for certain until I look at some real examples.

So if you have a commercial PSE&G account and:

You have a high consumption of hot water year around (for example: a health club, a large restaurant, or a multi-unit apartment building with a central heat and/or central domestic hot water).

Or:

You have something that will utilize the waste heat like a pool. Outdoor pools are perfect because you can keep them heated even through the winter.

What I need:

One year\'s worth of utility bills (gas, electric, oil). I need the usage (therms, kWh, gallons) and the demand charges for electric.

About 1/2 hour to see the property and take some notes and photos.

The evaluation is a quickie, \"for informational purposes only\" and will provide simple return of investment calculation based on a conservative estimate of installation
costs only (no design / engineering work included).

P.M. me if you are interested

OK,

I'll have to dig deeper. We're in contract on a 4 with an oil fired steam system that was going through a ridiculous amount of fuel. It sounds appealing, but I guess the numbers will tell if it makes any sense. That is, if a steam system can run on one...

The marathons have about the same sound level as a refrigerator

Looked at Freewatt, I think having an IC engine running in the basement would be a nonstarter! There's only so quiet it could possibly be. Even a forced vent gas boiler can be loud enough to hear on the ground floor.

Quote:



With net meeting and the incentives.. maybe. I have a large 4 unit, so I am going to be asking for copies of my tenants utility bills. I have older R-22 A/C units that will need to be replaced in a few years. Instead, I might convert them over to chilled water combined with the cogen. I will have to submeter my tenants though off the commercial meter.

Companies that install cogen normally work it this way: You pay them for the electricity they generate, plus maintenance, but you get the heat for free. So electricity costs stay the same, but heat and hot water costs go down dramatically.

This was impossible before because NJ would not allow net meetering on small CHP systems. Net meetering works this way:

The cogen kicks on whenever you need hot water. Basically it acts as a boiler. If you don't need the electricity, your meter spins backwards.

Companies that make small systems are Freewatt and Marathon Engine. I am looking at the Marathon units for myself: They are larger, you can daisy chain up to three together, and they have been used in NY for a number of years now.

some more links:

http://www.freewatt.com/
http://www.marathonengine.com/intro_eco.html

Interesting, but would it scale down to a 4 unit?

For those of you in multi-family buildings that have a common heating / hot water system and looking for a long term way to cut your utility costs:


the BPU approved new incentives for Combined Heat & Power:

This is where you install a generator in the building, burning fuel to make power (normally natural gas). The heat is captured to produce hot water / steam, which can then be used for heating, hot water, and running a cooling system (via heat absorption chillers).

In the past, NJ has been behind the curve in allowing smaller CHP plants. The new incentives will pay for up to 30% or 40% of the cost on an install ($1 per watt) .

Right now, it is cheaper (per kWh) to make your own power than buy it from the grid. However, the capital cost only makes sense if you can utilize the waste heat. Multi-unit buildings are decent candidates for the smaller CHP systems.

CHP systems are thermally 80% to 90% efficient vs. you only get to use 30% of the thermal energy when you buy electricity from the grid.

http://www.njcleanenergy.com/commerci ... power-and-fuel-cells-1-mw

Other good candidates is anyone with a large hot water load such as health clubs, places with heated pools, restaurants....