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Re: Is crime down?
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Quote:

CdeCoincy wrote:
Quote:

tommyc_37 wrote:
Quote:

rycor wrote:
Quote:

tommyc_37 wrote:
There have been more than a couple attacks/muggings on Erie Street recently, which is very alarming.


Can you share more information on this?


I think I read that info here. I believe there were about 3 random muggings, all on Erie Street between 2nd Street and 6th Street, in the past month or so. One involved a knife, and one victim was punched out.


http://spotcrime.com/#Harsimus%20Cove ... %2C%20NJ%2007302%2C%20USA

I think this is the report User was referring to...

So I checked this out for my neighborhood in the Heights - very little turned up, which I should be encouraged by I suppose! But has anyone tried to correlate this data (how is it gathered BTW) with JCPD's official stats?

Posted on: 2013/12/27 20:41
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Re: Chris Christie 'Suspiciously Connected' To Revenge Traffic Jam
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Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

SOS wrote:
The investigation is continuing to pick up steam.

There's a clear track record demonstrating that Christie is a bully. Not presidential material by a longshot.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/25/nyr ... 88E7F9B277A167FFD&gwt=pay



Nothing that Christie has, may, or thinks of doing will come within a hundred miles of making him less of a choice for POTUS than Mrs. Clintons exposure and responsibility for the 9/11 Benghazi attack.

A traffic jam? lol

I'm still waiting for a good link to how and why (former) Secretary Clinton should be compromised politically in any meaninful way about the attack on our site in Benghazi. While I haven't read the official Accountability Review Board findings in detail, it seems to be pretty well summarized by now (including this post from Daily Kos) http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/10 ... ts-Everyone-Needs-To-Know
And while a traffic jam in no way compares to the death of American citizens, and an inability to step up and manage a fast-changing, dangerous enviroment like Libya may not bode well for a presidential contender - does that REALLY overshadow actively disruptive, vindictive behavior if indeed Christie is found to be guilty of that?

Posted on: 2013/12/27 20:31
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Re: Chris Christie 'Suspiciously Connected' To Revenge Traffic Jam
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Quote:

VanVorster wrote:
Yes a lot of rich people vote Democrat and Obama also won a lot of the affluent educated voting segment (people like myself and my friends) despite the meme/fiction that only poor or working class people voted for him because they are so-called "takers." What I was saying is that the GOP seems to be comprised largely of the rapacious rich (Sheldon Adelson, Koch Brothers who only think about money and not other things that impact society) and xenophobic working class Christian gun toting whites.

See this. http://www.cnbc.com/id/49726054

Not to mention a LOT of working/getting-by educated voters like myself, my family, and friends - not all of whom are completely comfortable with, or committed to, the liberal party line, but are dismayed by the Republican party's complete capitulation to Adelson, Koch et al, and their whole-sale selling out of the American middle class.

P.S. - I'm game for some face-to-face political discussion and dialogue, too. Keep me posted!

Posted on: 2013/12/27 20:13
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Re: Range Rover is carjacked from Jersey City street: police
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Quote:

heights wrote:
I guess it's time we dumb down and dress down so not to offend anyone and draw unwanted/dangerous attention to our lives.

By that you mean... drive $60,000 SUVs in poor/working class neighborhoods? Wear a coat that would cost your neighbor 2-months worth of Social Security checks? Is it "dumbing down" or keeping some perspective in place where the have's and have-not's are put together?

Mind you, I'm not putting down anyone's form self-expression. Myself, as a dapper gay man I wander about the Heights in a blazer, pocket square, and polka-dot socks (all from H&M or thrift shops, having "not-so-much"...) which back in the day would definately have drawn unwanted attention in form of a beat-down.


Posted on: 2013/12/26 17:13
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Re: Range Rover is carjacked from Jersey City street: police
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Quote:

cousin wrote:
Am I a racist because I am wondering what color these dirt merchants are? Or does that not matter?

I would argue no, their color doesn't matter. I do think bringing up the issue is borderline provocative, though - why ask?

Unless we have a photo of the perps, so we could call the cops if we see them, speculating about whether they are [fill in race of your choice here] isn't asking the questions we need to be asking to deal with crime in our community.

Posted on: 2013/12/26 16:30
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Re: jclist.com was hacked today 12-24-2013
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Quote:

CdeCoincy wrote:
3. a fundamental flaw in Chinese society is responsible for the hacking. Perhaps the one child policy coupled with the preference for male children resulting in nothing better to do than hacking web sites and masturbation.

Ho, Ho, Ho
not a christmas greeting, but perhaps a lead
LOL

You just made my day!

Posted on: 2013/12/26 16:05
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Recommend a tanning salon?
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A friend and I are going to Rio for Carnivale, and I'm under orders to NOT look like a typical american tourist... which I take it to mean slimming down to wear a Speedo and getting a fake tan, before we go.

Any recommendations for tanning salons in JC or Hoboken (I live in the Heights and don't have a car)? Oh, and what are folk's thoughts on spray vs. tanning bed?

Posted on: 2013/12/26 15:52
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Re: Jersey City Dentist Review & Recommendation - East Coast Dental NO GO
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Shaking this thread once again - I'm looking for a new dentist (live in the Heights, near Pershing Field) and work near City Hall in Manhattan.

Can anyone recommend any of the dental offices on Central Avenue and/or a short stroll from the Heights? Hoboken is a close walk too, now that the 100 Steps are back.

Posted on: 2013/12/26 15:48
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Re: What does the future hold for The Heights?
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Quote:

Baron-Bay wrote:
The Heights needs to be "broken up" into smaller neighborhoods. Just as Downtown is a collection of smaller parcels (Van Voorst, Paulus Hook, Hamilton Park, etc etc).

Anyone with an interest in the future of The Heights, realtors included, should lobby for this. The value cannot be overstated, I believe.

Smaller enclaves will foster civic pride and generate friendly competition. Realtors will find it easier to pitch houses and values will increase, in certain sections at first, but ultimately overall. There is an exciting sense of arrival and departure when, Downtown, you pass one of those attractive green signs that indicate a new region/neighborhood.

The Heights' character varies considerably throughout, and the new tags could capture this. Landmarks could provide the cues.

I agree! I know its overdone by realtors in Manhattan, where every few blocks is now a new, usually fake and lame, neighborhood. MiMa?! But it the Heights seems to really need to evolve into smaller, more manageable enclaves.

Should there be a contest? Do we get the Mayor's office involved?

Posted on: 2013/12/20 19:01
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Re: PATH currently suspended 12/20 8:45 AM
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Quote:

heights wrote:
Quote:

tommyc_37 wrote:
So will the signal system upgrade increase the speed at which the trains travel under the river? Currently it is a crawling speed between Newport and Christopher. What takes 7-8 minutes should take about 3.

So you are ranting about a 4-5 minute difference ??

I take it you don't commute...

Well I do, and I'm joining the rant! 4-5 minutes each way adds up to nearly an hour each week. And, for those of us who are too far to walk to the PATH, that 4 -5 minutes results in missed connections - that in addition to delays in the bus service. Pretty soon - as is the case nearly every day for me - you are looking at a 10 to 15 minute difference each way.

Posted on: 2013/12/20 18:54
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Ventless gel-fuel fireplaces
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I've long wanted a fireplace, but a true wood-burning or gas type isn't possible in my low floor, street facing, "loft" condo. I've seen ads/articles on gel-fuel models and that seems feasible, provided there are no JC laws against them. What appeals is an authentic flame, even if its not a heat source, and the fact that you can design a setting in any aesthetic. Does anyone have any experience with these? Advice on cost, installers, potential impact on re-sale value, etc.? Thanks!

http://hearthcabinet.hubpages.com/hub ... -and-ambience-to-any-room

Posted on: 2013/12/18 18:49
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Re: Chris Christie 'Suspiciously Connected' To Revenge Traffic Jam
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It's a shame this post has devolved into name-calling, posturing, and harrangues because these issues reflect on the character of potential presidential candidates. In my ideal world we would accept certain points and get back to basics:

1. Hillary Clinton has broad responsibility for what happended in Benghazi, but probably did not have enough critical, real time, information on what was happening on the ground to deal with it better. There is no conspiracy, but what does that mean about her management/leadership skills?

2. Chris Christie has latitude for PA appointments, and shares broad responsibility for day-to-day operations - but again, doesn't micro manage the PA. There is no conspiracy, but what does this mean about his management/leadership skills if staff at higher levels are making their own, bad, decisions?

3. Sure, a lot of African-americans voted for Obama - it's a natural - and historically in the US, to be expected - expression of the pride and aspriations of ANY group/ethnicity/etc. that make up the melting pot. My mom still talks about how proud she and her family were to vote for JFK - a fellow Catholic.

Posted on: 2013/12/18 18:04
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Re: What does the future hold for The Heights?
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Quote:

user1111 wrote:
Question for folks who live in The Heights do you make multiple trips back in forth into NYC using public transportation? I sometimes make three trips in one day...

No, never. When the stars all align, I can get from Franklin and Sherman Avenues to my office by Police Plaza in Manhattan in 50 minutes, I generally allow 1 hour. It takes about the same amount of time to get to Chelsea for brunch on a Sunday between the #87 bus, the PATH, the layovers (although in warmer weather, when the rooftop bar at Boxers in Hell's Kitchen is open, I can sweet-talk my pals into meeting there - the #123 bus on weekends is sweet, 25 minutes tops!).

Maybe I just have really bad transit Karma, comparing myself to some of the other posters LOL!

3 round trips a day?! that would easily kill 4 1/2 to 6 hours for me... Maybe I need to ask you for tips on how to be more zen about getting in and out of NYC (either that, or refer me to whoever prescribes your meds LOL).

Posted on: 2013/12/17 23:55
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Re: Chris Christie 'Suspiciously Connected' To Revenge Traffic Jam
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Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Atshushi, so much is unknown about Benghazi that remain to be uncovered. Dozens and dozens of the government contractors who were sited in Libya-we don't know what they were doing there. Congress has been prohibited from interviewing them to find out, under the guise of they're part of a criminal investigation.

Freedom of Information Act requests have been stonewalled. We don't even know where Obama and Clinton were during the 12 hour attack, and why no support was instantly sent-after all, the last of the killed happened many hours after the attack began and could have been saved. And I'll leave aside the cover up and distraction about the 'spontaneous' riot vs an Al Qaeda supported/aided attack on the anniversary of 9/11.

And Hilary's convenient concussion when she was called to testify still boggles the mind. Talk about accountability?

Anyone who thinks a traffic jam in Ft. Lee is within a million miles of Clinton's exposure on Benghazi is stupid, na?ve, or delusional.

Clearly, there is a lot of conflicting evidence on what happened in Benghazi http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013 ... benghazi-attack-challenge and, given the "spiders' web" of regional politics and alliances we may not know for a very long time. And of course not - a traffic jam does not compare to an international incident, although IMO we are more likely to see Clinton's downfall as being that of putting people with poor command of events on the ground in charge of giving her information, as opposed to Christie's scenario which is the usual fallout from sad patronage hack's actions. Is that in-and-of-itself a reason to question his leadership skills more than Clinton's? I for one am not prepared to say.

But Monroe I must say, Christie's popularity here in NJ will only hurt him as a presidential candidate - NJ is too diverse, too urban, too Catholic, etc. Do you really see inbred, flat-earth, southern "Christian" Republicans supporting the guy?

Posted on: 2013/12/17 18:55
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Re: What does the future hold for The Heights?
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Quote:

kitten wrote:
Quote:

tommyc_37 wrote:
Without a doubt you get so much more for your money in the Heights than downtown.

My only question is, if somebody is priced out of DTJC, why wouldn't they move to a place in the outer boroughs that is cheaper than DTJC but has subway access? Or even JSQ?

I think that the type of people who are true "gentrifiers" and who bring about signs of "gentrification" such as cafes, high quality restaurants, etc (people who are under 40, earn a pretty good living in a white collar profession) are likely to look for things in a neighborhood that the Heights doesn't really have. Specifically, easy 24/7 access to the region's core, aka Manhattan.

Just my 2 cents. I like the Heights, and I think Central Ave is great. For years on this message board I've said that the Hoboken Path line should terminate in the Heights.


Weehawken, Union City, Edgewater, Guttenberg, Fort Lee are all places near Manhattan that do not rely on subways or Path trains and are doing really well economically. The Heights is along the same line (literally, the Palisades cliff)

I hear both of your points - but I think you are each referring to two very different types of, or paths for, "gentrification,", "turn-around", however one chooses to label it.

My "dream" Heights is much more along the lines of what tommyc_37 is describing - more of an immersive urban environment, for which NYC - and access to Manhattan - is the model. And to that extent I sense he and some of the other posters who focus on the lack of 24/7, direct, scheduled rail-based mass-transit to the Heights is a big drawback.

Of course, as kitten says, the Heights is good if you have a car of your focus is commuting to-and-from Manhattan, but that is more of a "suburban" or "peripherally" urban experience, like Fort Lee - the density without that urban sensibility.

Posted on: 2013/12/17 18:04
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Re: Jitney Route Map?
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There is no map, but as you've heard they generally follow the bus routes. That said - are there NJT buses from the West Slope or West Side of the Heights to Grove Street?

Having taken the jitneys from the Enterprise Car rental to both NYC and JSQ, I'm not aware if any continue on to Grove Street. Is Palisade Avenue too far to walk? The jitneys run down Palisade to Summit and Pavonia, and then down Pavonia to Newark Avenue, Grove Street, and Newport Mall. On the return trip, they stop in JSQ PATH station before looping up Newark to Palisade. A bit round-a-bout, but then again - they run frequently as opposed to NJT buses.

Posted on: 2013/12/16 17:06
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Re: What does the future hold for The Heights?
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Quote:

Bogart wrote:
Quote:

Prismatic wrote:
Quote:

Bogart wrote:
The reliance on the private (and lightly regulated) jitney system seems odd to me. Why is there no public transportation?


There is. Is it as easy as downtown? No but there are numerous buses that can take you around most of the city and Manhatten if need be.


If the public bus service were adequate, all the private jitneys would not be needed to duplicate bus routes.

And therein lies, IMO, a big piece of the 'problem' - NJ Transit buses are not adequate by many metrics. It's not that there are NOT buses in the Heights to/from Manhattan, DTJC, Hoboken, it's NJT's archaic and inconvenient system - no route maps posted, no schedules posted (luckily, the buses seem to be using GPS so when you text 'mybus' you get a real time schedule), and the ridiculous cash or paper ticket system. By comparison, the MTA train and bus system works together with transfers, the MetroCard.

This may be a topic for a separate thread, but what would it take to get some smart changes at NJT? Ideally, share MetroCard or Smart Card services. Along with that, there is the bigger issue of a lack of traffic planning in JC (the car owner/driver lobby at at work LOL?) From my corner at Franklin and Palisade, there are 3 buses - the 84, 86, 87 - to the PATH station into WTC. I've tried them all at rush hour, and only the 87 to JSQ is not hopelessly bogged down in traffic all the time.

P.S. - I'm really excited to hear about a new coffee shop! Not just for a better cup of Joe, but a great way to mingle with neighbors who similarly enjoy seeing new places open in the nabe.

Posted on: 2013/12/16 16:38
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What does the future hold for The Heights?
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I've been a resident of the Heights for several years now, and while I'm thrilled whenever someplace new opens - like the Trolley Car Bar or the Distillery Gallery; or we see some new infrastructure improvement - like the new "100 Steps" to Hoboken open, anytime I go to DTJC (or read the posts here, on JCList for that matter) I can't help but feel the Heights is stuck (or just in a really slow gear).

While a new store or restaurant opens occasionally, it seems there are more and more vacant storefronts. In fact, near me at the Corner of Franklin Street and Palisade Avenue ALL 4 CORNERS have vacant storefronts! And the number of vacant buildings boggles my mind - in a neighborhood where you can see Manhattan just a few miles away!

It seems the Heights should be poised to be more visibly up-and-coming, and maybe it will take time, but I'm curious what other JC'ers (from the Heights or elsewhere) have to say. My friends from NYC say its because the Heights has lousy mass transit (being a 2-fare zone from NYC) but the happening neighborhoods in Brooklyn are further out as the crow flies... So what is the story?

Posted on: 2013/12/13 18:25
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Re: Micro Apartment Living
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Quote:

maybeMoving wrote:
On and on with this parking stuff! ...while JC residents are clutching their pearls over young "transients" and worrying about their precious parking spots. If you must have a car then pay the $200/mo to put it in a lot...

LOL! You must live downtown... here in the Heights they're clutching the draw-strings on their sweatpants...

And putting the car in a lot implies walking to retrieve it, something the sweatpant crowd is not going to go for.

Posted on: 2013/11/25 2:18
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Re: Affordable Care Act - Does anyone have any info about this?
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Quote:

Monroe wrote:
The 'highlight' of Obama's 2 terms is going to be this cock up of monumental proportions-and it won't be the disgraceful website non-roll out, but when the true travesty of Obamacare on 85% of the populace becomes apparent. True socialism at work-screw the 85% to benefit the 15%.

If only the low information voters understood this during the last election rather than believe the lies they were told by Obama about his Obamacare . . . Add 'you'll keep the plan you like' to the famous lies like 'the checks in the mail'.


Ill informed? Hardly... If Congress had passed Medicare for All, us progressives' preferred simple, universal alternative to the kludgeocratic - http://www.salon.com/2013/10/28/what_ ... to_do_to_social_security/ - ACA mess, signing up would have been a lot easier and the potential for website snafus correspondingly less (or, your "socialism-at-work" used to be known as "promoting the general welfare").

But, rather than throw the baby (15% = 4,500,000 fellow citizens, does "fellow citizen mean anything to you, Monroe?) we informed voters opted to urge our leaders to support something over nothing.

Posted on: 2013/11/25 1:52
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Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
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Quote:

Asif wrote:


Just write up whatever questions/complaints you have for them on this thread here. I am going to present them with any feedback......and also let them know about this forum........so if they want they can come and see for themselves.

Have you had any meetings yet? Any news or updates?

Posted on: 2013/11/25 1:27
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Re: If you like your insurance...
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Who would have thought there were so many right-wingers in our fair city?!! Having only encountered them on-line thus far, what should I be keeping my eye peeled for when out in public (or do I need special sunglasses, a la John Carpenter's 'They Live')?

But back to the topic - Nancy Gibbs in the current issue of 'Time' has an interesting comment - "But all reforms have winners and losers; throwing people off cheap, no-frills plans is central to making the Affordable Care Act work. This is not a fumble - it's a core feature. Some people will have to buy more coverage than they want or need to offset the older and sicker people who cost insurance more. Everyone in Washington knew this, so the policy's defenders are reduced to arguing that people should have realized Obama was sugarcoating things when he sold the policy as a way to cover a majority of the country's 48 million uninsured without inconveniencing anyone else."

As a progressive, it pains me the whole concept had to be soft-peddled; but I'm curious if American may indeed have rejected the ACA if it understood some shared sacrifice was in order?

Posted on: 2013/11/25 1:23
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Re: If you like your insurance...
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Quote:

JCishome wrote:
85% of Americans are "happy with their health care" because they have no idea what it really costs - they're shielded from it because they're covered by employers or by artificially-suppressed/state regulated plans. If nothing else, the ACA debacle has exposed the truth: Americans are spectacularly unhealthy, our health care costs are out of control and rising at 3x the rate of inflation. All the hoopla over websites and broken promises is just another sideshow; the simple reality is we have an unsustainable system.

+1 While getting the kinks out of any big, new initiative can take some time, and no-one wants to hear of people being inconvenienced during what is supposed to be a huge step forward for all Americans - the reality is a very, very small % of people are being affected http://www.cnbc.com/id/101218418 and 40 TIMES AS MANY!! people will get insurance under ACA as will loose their coverage.
@Monroe, stillnjc, et al - why are you making a mountain out of a molehill? And the "lefty" Democrats didn't listen to Republicans when they drafted ACA legislation? Are you kidding me?! "Planet Fox" must be way out past Pluto - ACA is so cumbersome and uneccessisarily expensive BECAUSE of Republican input - who wanted to keep the trough in front of their big Pharma corporate enablers.

Posted on: 2013/11/22 19:48
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Re: Safety on Manila Ave
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Quote:

user1111 wrote:
Projects!!!! hell no, you will get your throat slashed (Rolls Eyes)

Now, now... be gentle and don't scare the new recruits!

Posted on: 2013/11/20 18:23
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Re: Call your state senator to vote against Bill S2468
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Quote:

luvHomeMyJC wrote:
This is not about being fair or the lack of. This is about an out-of-state LEGAL resident sending their child to study in NJ paying a premium while an illegal resident sending their child getting a subsidy. That is being un fair to the people following the rules.

What is unfair about that? It has always been the case, in my memory, that out-of-state students pay more in order to enable more state residents - presumably lower income - to take advantage of lower tuition rates. It seems perfectly fair to give something back to residents who have paid state taxes, by way of helping their kids go to college.

But the grievances expressed here seem not to have anything to do with "fairness" or the importance of "playing by the rules", given how those words are being thrown around over this particular issue. Play fair? Play by the rules? I do - was it fair Wall Street/CEOs of the Big 3 Automakers get bailed out for f*cking up and destroying the economy, jobs, and livelihoods while we pick up the tab?

Posted on: 2013/11/20 18:12
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Re: Unpaved sidewalk
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Quote:

caj11 wrote:
Quote:

blanquiita wrote:
Nothing like that community feeling of snitching on one's own neighbors.


Are you saying we should just let our neighbors break the law, and allow for unsafe conditions in the neighborhood we live?

Two unbelievable responses to this post - one guy asks "is this a problem for you?" (well, obviously, he wouldn't have posted here otherwise) and then you regard the OP as a snitch simply because he wants the city to enforce its own laws when there may be an unsafe situation. Unbelievable.

If you or one of your relatives tripped on that unpaved space, would you be "snitching" ?

+1 I can't believe that anyone with any sense of community responsibility would raise the "don't snitch" flag - an attitude which has literally destroyed many city neighborhods. And ignoring a condition that while it may not be a problem for me (being in my early 50's and still spry LOL) but could affect someone who whos is agile, more fragile physically or struggling with a stroller is unconscionable.

Posted on: 2013/11/20 15:36
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Re: Hundreds turn out for start of Fugitive Safe Surrender in Jersey City
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Quote:

papadage wrote:
Quote:

owlie wrote:
They live among us?.CHARMING!

I would rather have many of them than some of the investment banking crowd.

Half of the investment banking crowd would probably be fugitives if Obama and his crew of Wall Street enablers bothered to enforce McCain-Feingold...

Posted on: 2013/11/20 15:22
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Re: Can we keep Manila unpaved?
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Home away from home


Quote:

Seagull wrote:
Quote:

SixthBoro wrote:
I guess DT is the only place speeding is an issue?


Do you have a DT complex? Manila is the topic of this thread, hence we're talking about Manila, which unfortunately for you is located DT. Want to bring up speeding that doesn't pertain to a particular street that's located DT? Start another thread.


Seagull is correct - although SixthBoro raises a good point about the broader issues of out-of-control drivers in Jersey City. We've all seen location specific posts, and probably general posts such as the pedestrian initiatives that address traffic calming - but it shouldn't turn into a complaint-a-thon, rather try to suggest how as citizens to respond more effectively to the issue of speeding. Who want's to start it?? WEBMASTER - feel free to turn this into the first post on the subject of "what to do about speeding in JC".

Posted on: 2013/11/20 15:06
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Re: Governor Christie landslide
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Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Pebble, you're using all the tools from the radical left playbook-lame attempts to humiliate and insult those who threaten your far left views. You can oppose gay marriage and not hate homosexuals-the vast majority of religions on planet Earth do just that.


Which proves what exactly? That "love", or is it "non-hate", can be so parsed and twisted around to include disparaging and marginalizing someone else's most cherished goal? I recall you right-wingers raked (then) President Bill Clinton over the coals for his loose definition of "sex".

There is nothing lame in calling out hypocrisy - if you are not going to treat someone with the respect you yourself insist on, you may not think you hate them, but your actions tell a different story.

Posted on: 2013/11/8 22:08
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Re: 100 Steps finally open
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Quote:

Lima17 wrote:
Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

Bogart wrote:
Quote:

The new, steel staircase is actually only 95 steps.


Typical Hudson County games. The missing five steps are probably in some pol's backyard.


It actually is odd, codes generally have mandated shorter risers than 100 years ago, as anyone with an old steep staircase knows. So a new one over the same elevation you would expect to have more steps, not less. Perhaps the final "5" were absorbed into the Cliffs foundations.


The old design, and the new design are different. Here's a pic of the old one:
http://riverviewneighborhood.org/100-steps-letters/

It looks like the original steps started closer to the tracks, where it was flatter - so maybe it had a higher rise? Where can we find an old map or plan, do you think?

Posted on: 2013/11/8 21:58
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