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Re: Van Vorst Park---Dog Run
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It would be great if we held our politicians and emercency services to the same level of accountability, expectations and attacks as parkman has to go through - fcuking disgrace.

Posted on: 2007/3/31 20:34
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Re: Van Vorst Park---Dog Run
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RABBITRABBIT wrote:
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r_pinkowitz wrote:


The city ordinance has a 10pm curfew in all city parks. It's not enforced but, if people get stupid with the dog run issues, and want to challenge the time they can be issued a ticket. If there is 1 or 2 people who choose to make it bad for others. Have a talk with the community relations officer at JCPD. A 60 ticket is no fun to pay and will teach them to play nice real fast!


what's really interesting though, is how parkman took this cause on simply to keep the dogs out of the other areas of the park that he tries dilifgently to keep in order and beautiful. one problem supplanted by another. in reality, you didnt have that much of a dog noise problem last spring did you?

also interesting is how everyone is talking about the 10pm park curfew becuase of some barking dogs. but no-opne says anything about the homeless, the kids defacing the property, the people crapping in the bushes, the thugs smoking crack in the palyground. they are the fabric of life. the yupps with dogs need to be taught a thing or two about respect, i guess.

and what of the curfew in Wayne Street park? I guess no-one minds the car park of dope buyers there. they don't bark so loud.

it's a battle parkie - and you're in the mix.

kisses


Bunny,

I agree with the point you made about all the other issues being overlooked. But, if this is what it takes to get people to pick up the phone and do something about it hey, it's a start.

HP had a strong duo (Donna and Louie) bike patrol for JCPD and in one sweep, barking dogs, basketball games and boom boxes were all told "it's 10 pm and parks closed."
Took them all of 10 minutes to empty out the entire park.
Of course the dog people came back out for the final night walk and most of the time it remained quiet.

Attend the VVP meetingsand all of you should bring it up with PD who go to every meeting and come to some sort of resolve.,

A barking dog at 11pm get more folks out of bed than someone crapping in a bush. I'm sure this will get worked out!

It's not Parkmans sole job to fix everything wrong with the park....I really do give him credit for pulling this off...

OMG- side note....
Cliff Waldman = CW
Chuck Whittman = CW (the JCList one)
HMMMMMMMM makes ya' wonder!

Posted on: 2007/3/31 20:18
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Re: Van Vorst Park---Dog Run
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The city ordinance has a 10pm curfew in all city parks. It's not enforced but, if people get stupid with the dog run issues, and want to challenge the time they can be issued a ticket. If there is 1 or 2 people who choose to make it bad for others. Have a talk with the community relations officer at JCPD. A 60 ticket is no fun to pay and will teach them to play nice real fast!


what's really interesting though, is how parkman took this cause on simply to keep the dogs out of the other areas of the park that he tries dilifgently to keep in order and beautiful. one problem supplanted by another. in reality, you didnt have that much of a dog noise problem last spring did you?

also interesting is how everyone is talking about the 10pm park curfew becuase of some barking dogs. but no-opne says anything about the homeless, the kids defacing the property, the people crapping in the bushes, the thugs smoking crack in the palyground. they are the fabric of life. the yupps with dogs need to be taught a thing or two about respect, i guess.

and what of the curfew in Wayne Street park? I guess no-one minds the car park of dope buyers there. they don't bark so loud.

it's a battle parkie - and you're in the mix.

kisses

Posted on: 2007/3/31 20:03
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Re: Van Vorst Park---Dog Run
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RABBITRABBIT wrote:
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parkman wrote:

And I?m surprised you haven?t spotted the typo in the run, very disappointing.


I haven't seen the typos in the signs at the park since I haven't gone to the run lately-- not since my dog was attacked there. Seems like a lot of people who arent from the neighb are driving in from Journal Sq or pavonia and bringing their dogs there. That's cool and all , but it simply means there are more dogs there than this little run can handle (especially since you've sliced it into two sections , one of which is hardly used as I predicted). So many dogs in such a small place increases the possibility of a fight and in my case it happened to be my dog who became the latest victim - so we avoid. Besides, since your drainage system is a farce (we heard it from the city folks themselves) the place reeks of urine and will continue to do so and I'm not interested in bringing all that smell and disease back home (coupled with the grit in my floorboards).

But I have heard that you've been a police force of one - actually running across the street after 10 pm to shoo people out of "the run that you built". If it's after 10pm and the dogs are barking, be my guest. But if someone is there ALONE and the dog is quiet, stay in your own home you little hitler.

You built this bed, now lie in it. You should have let sleeping dogs lie.
I?m really getting tired of having to respond to every little complaint but I do feel a responsibility in making this run as successful as possible, even though in the long run it will be up the community.

I?ve put in place what the majority of this community wanted, worked with the city architects to have an area in the park that would be not only functional but also aesthetic, implemented and posted rules that are on the law books of JC and others that were drawn up by the downtown dog owners groups.

I think it?s at a point where the dog owner community needs to be more involved, self police, help maintain, and understand that their actions affect not just the run but also the entire park and surrounding area.

Dogs off the leash outside the run creates a safety hazard not only for the children who play there but also to the dogs themselves and it is not very pleasant when we?re working in the gardens, to step in little presents left behind.

As far as last night, at 11pm I very calmly explained to the women in the run with her two dogs, (they were barking by the way), that in order for this to work she needed to abide by the rules. Or as did happen two nights ago, one of my neighbors will call the police. I did not yell out my window at her, call the police, or threaten to shoot her dogs with a BB gun as another poster did, I?m just trying to rationally explain why the rules need to be followed

Trust me, my involvement in being the ?park Hitler? as you like to put it, will not be long lived. I will go just so far to get people to understand the larger picture of making the run a great addition to the park and at the same time improving the balance of the area for everyone.

And lastly, the drainage system was installed. There are PVC pipes running along the perimeter of the run that are tied into the sewer system and the run was graded to flow toward that drain. The next time it rains see which area of the park has standing water for the shortest period of time.

I understand that we can?t please everyone, however we have made our best efforts to take into account all sides of the issues. Let?s make this work.


The city ordinance has a 10pm curfew in all city parks. It's not enforced but, if people get stupid with the dog run issues, and want to challenge the time they can be issued a ticket. If there is 1 or 2 people who choose to make it bad for others. Have a talk with the community relations officer at JCPD. A 60 ticket is no fun to pay and will teach them to play nice real fast!

Posted on: 2007/3/31 19:41
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Re: Van Vorst Park---Dog Run
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Thank you for your efforts to reduce the noise level from the dog run. It is appreciated.

Posted on: 2007/3/31 19:31
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Re: Van Vorst Park---Dog Run
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also, she said you were hot

Posted on: 2007/3/31 16:24
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Re: Van Vorst Park---Dog Run
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RABBITRABBIT wrote:
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parkman wrote:

And I?m surprised you haven?t spotted the typo in the run, very disappointing.


I haven't seen the typos in the signs at the park since I haven't gone to the run lately-- not since my dog was attacked there. Seems like a lot of people who arent from the neighb are driving in from Journal Sq or pavonia and bringing their dogs there. That's cool and all , but it simply means there are more dogs there than this little run can handle (especially since you've sliced it into two sections , one of which is hardly used as I predicted). So many dogs in such a small place increases the possibility of a fight and in my case it happened to be my dog who became the latest victim - so we avoid. Besides, since your drainage system is a farce (we heard it from the city folks themselves) the place reeks of urine and will continue to do so and I'm not interested in bringing all that smell and disease back home (coupled with the grit in my floorboards).

But I have heard that you've been a police force of one - actually running across the street after 10 pm to shoo people out of "the run that you built". If it's after 10pm and the dogs are barking, be my guest. But if someone is there ALONE and the dog is quiet, stay in your own home you little hitler.

You built this bed, now lie in it. You should have let sleeping dogs lie.
I?m really getting tired of having to respond to every little complaint but I do feel a responsibility in making this run as successful as possible, even though in the long run it will be up the community.

I?ve put in place what the majority of this community wanted, worked with the city architects to have an area in the park that would be not only functional but also aesthetic, implemented and posted rules that are on the law books of JC and others that were drawn up by the downtown dog owners groups.

I think it?s at a point where the dog owner community needs to be more involved, self police, help maintain, and understand that their actions affect not just the run but also the entire park and surrounding area.

Dogs off the leash outside the run creates a safety hazard not only for the children who play there but also to the dogs themselves and it is not very pleasant when we?re working in the gardens, to step in little presents left behind.

As far as last night, at 11pm I very calmly explained to the women in the run with her two dogs, (they were barking by the way), that in order for this to work she needed to abide by the rules. Or as did happen two nights ago, one of my neighbors will call the police. I did not yell out my window at her, call the police, or threaten to shoot her dogs with a BB gun as another poster did, I?m just trying to rationally explain why the rules need to be followed

Trust me, my involvement in being the ?park Hitler? as you like to put it, will not be long lived. I will go just so far to get people to understand the larger picture of making the run a great addition to the park and at the same time improving the balance of the area for everyone.

And lastly, the drainage system was installed. There are PVC pipes running along the perimeter of the run that are tied into the sewer system and the run was graded to flow toward that drain. The next time it rains see which area of the park has standing water for the shortest period of time.

I understand that we can?t please everyone, however we have made our best efforts to take into account all sides of the issues. Let?s make this work.

Posted on: 2007/3/31 15:42
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Re: Van Vorst Park---Dog Run
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RABBITRABBIT wrote:

By the way parkie: All the friggin signs are making this victorian park look like a friggin war zone. can't they be a little more subdued?
Apparently their size and quantity isn?t sufficient enough for a few of the dog owners; they continue to ignore the rules.

And I?m surprised you haven?t spotted the typo in the run, very disappointing.


I haven't seen the typos in the signs at the park since I haven't gone to the run lately-- not since my dog was attacked there. Seems like a lot of people who arent from the neighb are driving in from Journal Sq or pavonia and bringing their dogs there. That's cool and all , but it simply means there are more dogs there than this little run can handle (especially since you've sliced it into two sections , one of which is hardly used as I predicted). So many dogs in such a small place increases the possibility of a fight and in my case it happened to be my dog who became the latest victim - so we avoid. Besides, since your drainage system is a farce (we heard it from the city folks themselves) the place reeks of urine and will continue to do so and I'm not interested in bringing all that smell and disease back home (coupled with the grit in my floorboards).

But I have heard that you've been a police force of one - actually running across the street after 10 pm to shoo people out of "the run that you built". If it's after 10pm and the dogs are barking, be my guest. But if someone is there ALONE and the dog is quiet, stay in your own home you little hitler.

You built this bed, now lie in it. You should have let sleeping dogs lie.

Posted on: 2007/3/31 5:24
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Re: Van Vorst Park---Dog Run
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RABBITRABBIT wrote:

By the way parkie: All the friggin signs are making this victorian park look like a friggin war zone. can't they be a little more subdued?
Apparently their size and quantity isn?t sufficient enough for a few of the dog owners; they continue to ignore the rules.

And I?m surprised you haven?t spotted the typo in the run, very disappointing.

Posted on: 2007/3/30 22:43
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Re: Van Vorst Park---Dog Run
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it was an idea not a sign writing job!

Posted on: 2007/3/30 22:24
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Re: Van Vorst Park---Dog Run
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this sign has typo's.

It's 6:00am not 6.00am.

colon not period


Oy' vey Bunny!!

Posted on: 2007/3/30 22:23
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NONdowntown wrote:
Don't know if i'm just reading too much into the tone of this post, but i have a stinking suspicion that 'ThirdRail' and his/her pooch make use of the VVP dog run after hours...


actually i recently moved out of the downtown area. I was about 100yards from the dog run but moved before it was built. If I was still in my last home, I wouldn't be in the run cause on of my dogs isn't too friendly towards other 'pooches'. All I was saying is that I've seen a lot going on in the park, a few dogs barking is one of the safer of them. Annoying- yes, but like I said, most responsible owners should take note (can't speak for all of them)

And yes you are reading too much into an internet post.


additionally, some guy walking his dog chased down a mugger with a knife last year. we're not all yuppie assholes (myself excluded - i am a yuppie asshole)

Posted on: 2007/3/30 22:21
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Re: Van Vorst Park---Dog Run
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ThirdRail wrote:
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Mr_X wrote:
Hello, I live right on the park. The dog park is right outside my window.

I've lived here for 4 years,




You really should have looked into a neighborhood before settling there. The talk of a dog run has been going on for some time now.


There's "talk" of a lot of things happening in a lot of neighborhoods. I think it's a bit disingenuous to suggest that any resident who moved in four years ago is on constructive notice that a dog park will be installed outside their window, and it's their problem if they don't like it.

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If the dog run is closed at 10pm, the whole park should be closed, that's the law right?


Absolutely not. If the problem with after-hours dog-run use persists, the city has sufficient discretion to close off the dog run without closing off the rest of the park. Just as the city is able to keep the restrooms in public parks locked at off-hours, without padlocking the park.

Don't know if i'm just reading too much into the tone of this post, but i have a stinking suspicion that 'ThirdRail' and his/her pooch make use of the VVP dog run after hours...

FYI - I walked my pooch thru the park at about 10:15 last night. There was just one guy in the park - playing witha very large white poodle. all was quiet. not sure what transpired afterward - if anything.

By the way parkie: All the friggin signs are making this victorian park look like a friggin war zone. can't they be a little more subdued?

Posted on: 2007/3/30 22:19
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this sign has typo's.

It's 6:00am not 6.00am.

colon not period

Posted on: 2007/3/30 22:17
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Re: Van Vorst Park---Dog Run
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Don't know if i'm just reading too much into the tone of this post, but i have a stinking suspicion that 'ThirdRail' and his/her pooch make use of the VVP dog run after hours...


actually i recently moved out of the downtown area. I was about 100yards from the dog run but moved before it was built. If I was still in my last home, I wouldn't be in the run cause on of my dogs isn't too friendly towards other 'pooches'. All I was saying is that I've seen a lot going on in the park, a few dogs barking is one of the safer of them. Annoying- yes, but like I said, most responsible owners should take note (can't speak for all of them)

And yes you are reading too much into an internet post.

Posted on: 2007/3/30 3:09
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Posted on: 2007/3/30 2:18
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Mr_X wrote:
Hello, I live right on the park. The dog park is right outside my window.

I've lived here for 4 years,




You really should have looked into a neighborhood before settling there. The talk of a dog run has been going on for some time now.


There's "talk" of a lot of things happening in a lot of neighborhoods. I think it's a bit disingenuous to suggest that any resident who moved in four years ago is on constructive notice that a dog park will be installed outside their window, and it's their problem if they don't like it.

Quote:
If the dog run is closed at 10pm, the whole park should be closed, that's the law right?


Absolutely not. If the problem with after-hours dog-run use persists, the city has sufficient discretion to close off the dog run without closing off the rest of the park. Just as the city is able to keep the restrooms in public parks locked at off-hours, without padlocking the park.

Don't know if i'm just reading too much into the tone of this post, but i have a stinking suspicion that 'ThirdRail' and his/her pooch make use of the VVP dog run after hours...

Posted on: 2007/3/30 1:51
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Posted on: 2007/3/30 1:42
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It sounds like 'teething problems' for users and residents, which will sort it's self out in the long run.
Well put!
Give us a chance to figure out the minutiae; we?re listening and adjusting.

Posted on: 2007/3/30 0:59
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Hello, I live right on the park. The dog park is right outside my window.

I've lived here for 4 years,




You really should have looked into a neighborhood before settling there. The talk of a dog run has been going on for some time now.

I'm sure the 6 or so owners that were thrown out will pay more attention to the rules if they truely are responsible dog owners (and spread the word to others). A lot more goes on in the neighborhood than just a few dog owners, it just goes on quietly. But I feel the dog owners that continue being rude are probably the same ones that don't pick up after their four legged friend. If the dog run is closed at 10pm, the whole park should be closed, that's the law right?

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After reading this , I thought of....

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Posted on: 2007/3/30 0:58
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It sounds like 'teething problems' for users and residents, which will sort it's self out in the long run.

Posted on: 2007/3/30 0:31
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"what's interesting is that this guy comes out to yell at the dog owners if the dogs are barking, but when there was a very loud fistfight between who drunks the other night, he was not to be found and did not call the cops. While I feel his pain (and just to be clear - i am right near the park too and have been awoken early and on weekends due to the barking) his noise complaints are certianly geared towards a certain type of recipient. He doesn't call the cops on the loud cars, the crazies and the drug dealers. Just the dog owners."

..
Here's the thing... I used to run to my window anytime I heard someone screaming. A year ago some woman started screaming. I went to my window and some guy was beating her by the payphone across from the library. I grabbed the phone and dialed 911. The cops were there before they picked up the other end of the line though. I call the cops anytime I see violent or dangerous activity. I want my family and friends to be safe too.

I'm not going to call the cops on a passing disturbance. Boisterous people walking home drunk, loud cars passing, even loud neighbors throwing parties until the wee hours on occasion. That's all to be expected in this neighborhood. (I'll post my other ideas on noise in another thread sometime)

But when I hear screaming outside every 10 minutes each time a hound tries to mount a poodle, it desensitizes me to the possibility of real danger. So in reality, it makes the park less safe when there are no people in there. I've heard wolf cried too many times.


Uh -- ok. didn't follow. but - ok.

Posted on: 2007/3/29 23:05
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OMG rabbit, I feel like a dog in heat.


That's funny, you smell like one too.

Posted on: 2007/3/29 23:04
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"what's interesting is that this guy comes out to yell at the dog owners if the dogs are barking, but when there was a very loud fistfight between who drunks the other night, he was not to be found and did not call the cops. While I feel his pain (and just to be clear - i am right near the park too and have been awoken early and on weekends due to the barking) his noise complaints are certianly geared towards a certain type of recipient. He doesn't call the cops on the loud cars, the crazies and the drug dealers. Just the dog owners."

..
Here's the thing... I used to run to my window anytime I heard someone screaming. A year ago some woman started screaming. I went to my window and some guy was beating her by the payphone across from the library. I grabbed the phone and dialed 911. The cops were there before they picked up the other end of the line though. I call the cops anytime I see violent or dangerous activity. I want my family and friends to be safe too.

I'm not going to call the cops on a passing disturbance. Boisterous people walking home drunk, loud cars passing, even loud neighbors throwing parties until the wee hours on occasion. That's all to be expected in this neighborhood. (I'll post my other ideas on noise in another thread sometime)

But when I hear screaming outside every 10 minutes each time a hound tries to mount a poodle, it desensitizes me to the possibility of real danger. So in reality, it makes the park less safe when there are no people in there. I've heard wolf cried too many times.

Posted on: 2007/3/29 21:06
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OMG rabbit, I feel like a dog in heat.

Posted on: 2007/3/29 20:39
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Re: Van Vorst Park---Dog Run
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fat-ass-bike wrote:THE DOG RUN IS CURSED


Oh my god - you've finally seen the light.

Posted on: 2007/3/29 18:07
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Re: Van Vorst Park---Dog Run
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
People are fine, its the individual ass-wipe that doesn't follow rules and authority. If joe-citizen tells or reminds one of these 'individuals' the rules, they are more then likely to get a 'fcuk-you' as a response............but good luck doing the 'soft' approach with the after hours dog issue. If it was me, I'd be on the phone to the cops and animal control if its crap not being picked up.


FYI - from what I heard, last night it was ONE dog causing the ruckus (we all know who) and the owner didnt stop him. He ruined it for all cause when the cops came, everyone left,. There was no "f*ck you" - just a general round of quieter "good night"s.

Posted on: 2007/3/29 18:05
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Re: Van Vorst Park---Dog Run
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Kindelan wrote: IF YOU YUPPY BASTARD, DOG-OWNING RETARDS make it so that a cop comes around and hassles me (or worse a closed gate) it is on and popping, just so you know.


Why does everyone here think that dog owners are yuppie bastards? A lot of people in this city who own dogs also work at the local laundamat, library and coffee houses. Not everyone you hate is a yuppie bastard, a-hole.

I, on the other hand, am a Yuppie bastard. A gay one at that. But I am not your problem since my dog does not bark, since I pick up after my dog, since i don't let my dog piss on anyone's garbage cans or stoop, and since my dog doesn't pick fights. In fact, my dog cleans up the neighborhood of pizza crusts and chicken bones so you should bow before him.

Fact is - before the dog run there were few problems with noise. Because there was no "safe space" to let dogs free, at night there were very few who did so. Now that there is a fenced in area - there are a lot more people who come out with their dogs. I hardly recognize any of them and I guess they have been neighbors for a long time. So the dog run has attracted many more dogs and dog owners to the area all times of the day and night. Too bad you put the dog run in parkie - told you it was a bad idea.

lastly, putting in the run has reduced the number of people who walk therir dogs while strolling thru the park at night (they now head directly to the run and stay on one side of the park). in the past whilst we walked thru and around the park we formed a quasi street team that the local drug users and street punks avoided for fear of being witnessed doing dumb and illegal shit. I predict (and you heard it here first) that the # of homeless in the park and the incidents of crapkins is going to explode now that the dog run is there - and explode even more so if the run is shut down at 10pm.

good going, you yuppie scum!

Posted on: 2007/3/29 18:02
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Re: Van Vorst Park---Dog Run
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Kindelan wrote:
Are you talking about the Dog-run or the whole park? THAT WOULD SUCK IF THEY LOCK THE PARK AT NIGHT.

Anyway, there aren't fences around it now, PLEASE PEOPLE LET'S KEEP IT THAT WAY!!!...

If this dog-run and you inconsiderate dog-owners result in the park being closed late-night, prepare for the WRATH OF KINDELAN.
...

I should not be prohibited from a quiet stroll or a tender moment because you treat your dogs like spoiled little children, WHICH THEY ARE NOT!!!!!!!


I don't own a dog. I do walk through the park sometimes to get home in the evenings, but I don't live by the park and don't have to put up with noise problems.

Regardless: the park has signs all over that say it closes at 10 p.m., and there is a fence around the park. There just aren't any gates. There also are other parks downtown (example: the playground park by the Essex Street light rail) that do get locked up at closing time.

I think it's also obvious from looking at the dog run that the neighborhood desperately needs it.

The city ought to start by just trying to keep a better eye on the dog run after 10 p.m. and encouraging nearby residents to call when the run gets noisy after the official closing time.

If that doesn't work, the next step would be to lock up the dog run itself after, say, 10:30 p.m. or 11 p.m.

If that doesn't work, and hordes of howling dog packs are carousing in the park at all hours, then maybe the city would have to think about locking up a lot more of the park, or maybe the whole park.

If people in the city decide that they want to let packs of dogs howl in the park all night, then maybe the city ought to require dog owners to contribute to a fund that would help install better soundproofing in the noisiest apartments near the dog run, or buy the the noisiest apartments near the run and resell them to people who don't mind hearing (or can't hear) dogs howl.

Posted on: 2007/3/29 17:57
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Re: Van Vorst Park---Dog Run
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kro wrote:
small tangent...

anyone ever inform the wacky white dude with the two basset hounds to reel 'em in and give others some sidewalk?!


yeah - he's an issue. those dogs are nuts but he rarely leaves the grove street area.

Posted on: 2007/3/29 17:35
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