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Re: Christie & Cuomo Support Eliminating Weekend Overnight PATH Service
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user1111 wrote:
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Sommerman wrote:
Mightn't this put the kibosh on a casino?



The casino was proposed to be in GV which is no where near a PATH train, so most people would most likely drive there, if this should even happen.


user, I was assuming that some of the tourists that come to NYC would visit and would need the PATH to cross the river.

Posted on: 2014/12/30 13:37
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Re: Christie & Cuomo Support Eliminating Weekend Overnight PATH Service
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JERSEY CITY - At the Journal Square PATH station in Jersey City today, the news of a potential cancellation of overnight PATH services between Manhattan and New Jersey did not sit well with many riders.

"If PATH cancels their overnight service it will really mess things up for me," said Quamaine Palmer, a Brooklyn resident who uses overnight PATH to get to his job as a security guard in Jersey City. "I basically wouldn't be able to get back and forth from my job and I would probably consider looking for a new job that is more convenient."

At the Grove Street PATH station, rider Frank Torina said, "It's silly. If anything they should increase PATH service."

The suggestion to remove the 1 a.m. to 5 a.m. overnight PATH service on weeknights and weekends comes from a report by a panel commissioned by Govs. Chris Christie of New Jersey and Andrew Cuomo of New York as part of a plan to reform the Port Authority.

According to the report, ridership falls off severely during the overnight hours and stopping the service altogether could save the Port Authority $10 million a year.

Riders see it differently.

"From a business sense, it's penny smart but dollar dumb," said Patrick Jones, a Jersey City resident who uses overnight PATH to commute to his job in Queens. "Sure they're going to save $10 million but in the long run they're going to cost the city, the taxpayers and themselves more to do this than anything. It's foolish from a business standpoint and a slap in the face to the riders."

Jones added that he would probably look for a new job if overnight PATH service is cancelled.

"Shutting down overnight PATH is gonna hurt the economy on both sides of the river," said Marleny Alonzo, a Jersey City resident who runs her own online business and says she uses the overnight PATH to get home from Manhattan most days of the week.

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Posted on: 2014/12/30 13:01
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Re: Christie & Cuomo Support Eliminating Weekend Overnight PATH Service
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Sommerman wrote:
Mightn't this put the kibosh on a casino?



The casino was proposed to be in GV which is no where near a PATH train, so most people would most likely drive there, if this should even happen.

Posted on: 2014/12/30 12:33
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Re: Christie & Cuomo Support Eliminating Weekend Overnight PATH Service
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Mightn't this put the kibosh on a casino?


Posted on: 2014/12/30 12:16
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Re: Christie & Cuomo Support Eliminating Weekend Overnight PATH Service
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The Port Authority to me is a Frankenstein monster that shouldn't exist. Letting Frankie decide things for himself makes no sense - "here's bits I don't want - while I go build some more white elephants".

To me the choice is simple. Privatize the whole shit show. Or put Frankie on a much shorter leash. Short term - I'd vote for the latter.

Posted on: 2014/12/30 8:49
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Re: Christie & Cuomo Support Eliminating Weekend Overnight PATH Service
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The only time I used the damn Path is on the late hours of night on the weekends. Time to start calling the mayor and members of city council. If this really happens, the traffic at the Holland tunnel and downtown would be unbearable on the weekends. It would reduce property values, and it would affect our hotels. Downtowners better get their pitch forks ready, because if this happens we all get f*cked.


Fulop was one of the first ones yelling about this, as was the Downtown council rep, Candice Osborne.

Whatever else you think of him, I have to ask the obvious rhetorical question: would Gov. Fulop be trying to cut PATH service?

Posted on: 2014/12/30 2:48
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Re: Christie & Cuomo Support Eliminating Weekend Overnight PATH Service
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So, once northern NJ is eviscerated, I assume that central and southern NJ will pick up the slack, being high growth areas and whatnot?

Posted on: 2014/12/30 0:50
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Re: Christie & Cuomo Support Eliminating Weekend Overnight PATH Service
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Sommerman wrote:
1. Can't the governors' vetos be overridden?

2. Could closing a mass transit link for six (?) hours in this part of the world violate any clean air acts at the state or federal level?


Why the Port Authority veto will not be overriden: The Auditor

Posted on: 2014/12/29 22:05
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Re: Christie & Cuomo Support Eliminating Weekend Overnight PATH Service
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Another possibility is Christie and Cuomo have no intention in letting this pass, but they condoned such an outrageous proposal so that there can be a big fight about it and they finally relent in the end. Leading to everyone cheering but the passage of no meaningful reform.

Remember, Christie and Cuomo have a history of this. It was revealed that they secretly asked the Port Authority to ask for completely outrageous toll hikes, so they could look like heroes by fighting and lowering the toll hikes. While nice theater, it screwed the average citizen, who now has to pay $14 to drive into the City.

Posted on: 2014/12/29 21:47
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Re: Christie & Cuomo Support Eliminating Weekend Overnight PATH Service
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Monroe wrote:
Er, it was his dad who fostered the 'Cuomo or the homo' meme. Wrong Cuomo by a generation . . . I don't know what jr had to do with the campaign, especially because they denied any relation to the gay slur.


The younger Cuomo purportedly had a hand in it.

Posted on: 2014/12/29 21:24
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Re: Christie & Cuomo Support Eliminating Weekend Overnight PATH Service
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Knowing an insider, it's safe to say you people would be ASTOUNDED at how much overtime PATH employees are given without having to do any work. 20-30 hours a week per employee is a conservative estimate, on average.

Posted on: 2014/12/29 21:22
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Re: Christie & Cuomo Support Eliminating Weekend Overnight PATH Service
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Er, it was his dad who fostered the 'Cuomo or the homo' meme. Wrong Cuomo by a generation . . . I don't know what jr had to do with the campaign, especially because they denied any relation to the gay slur.

Posted on: 2014/12/29 21:09
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Re: Christie & Cuomo Support Eliminating Weekend Overnight PATH Service
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Monroe wrote:
For the chump change it would take to keep it open, I say keep it open. But my amusement is reading how people are shredding Republican Christie, while giving Democrat and liberal fun boy Cuomo an 'ole'.


You obviously aren't reading all the posts. Many criticized Cuomo. As to Cuomo being a true liberal, he has already shown that he is a DINO on a number of issues. That is why there was such an active progressive campaign against him in the primary. And of course, he helped run a homo-phobic campaign against Ed Koch years ago.

Cuomo may be slightly better than Christie, but that ain't saying much. And on this issue they both suck.

Posted on: 2014/12/29 21:05
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Re: Christie & Cuomo Support Eliminating Weekend Overnight PATH Service
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For the chump change it would take to keep it open, I say keep it open. But my amusement is reading how people are shredding Republican Christie, while giving Democrat and liberal fun boy Cuomo an 'ole'.

Posted on: 2014/12/29 20:43
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Re: Christie & Cuomo Support Eliminating Weekend Overnight PATH Service
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Cuomo does not owe anything to NJ.

OTOH, Christie answers to NJ residents- the ones that will see property values plummet, the ones that won't be able to get to work...

Republicans are the party of business, yet hotels, bar, and restaurant owners, nevermind their BFF banks, will see a severe hit if this were to come to pass.

The PA can't afford 10M/year to keep PATH open at night, but can afford 6M to study a link to the airport...yet those people better not fly in between 1 and 5AM or it's SOS!!! Nevermind the Harrison improvement...

Harrison gets a new station, but I'm sure it's pure coincidence that Hoboken and Jersey City get the shaft. Not like those two mayors were splashed over national news because they had the gall to stand up to Christie.

Not to mention overtime at the PA is spiraling and they admitted to losing several million they can't find.

But good ol Christie has a solution!

Monroe isn't responding to what Christie is doing because like all Christie employees, it's Christie over NJ residents and their needs.

Hopefully he is indicted before this is put through. He is everything wrong with politics in this country.

Posted on: 2014/12/29 20:17
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Re: Christie & Cuomo Support Eliminating Weekend Overnight PATH Service
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Stringer wrote:
PATH could be targeted for privatization, service reduction under Port Authority plan embraced by governors

By Matt Friedman | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com
December 29, 2014 at 8:12 AM

JERSEY CITY ? A report by the Port Authority that?s supported by the governors of New York and New Jersey floats the idea of eliminating overnight PATH service and turning over the system's operation to an outside organization ? public or private.

Those ideas, along with others in the 99-page report that was released Saturday night, were slammed today by Jersey City Mayor Steve Fulop, who said curtailing service on one of the region?s most vital transportation links would hurt not just his city's economy, but the state as a whole.

?I think that all too often politicians assume the public is stupid, and this is an example of that,? said Fulop, a Port Authority critic whose administration in May filed a $400 million lawsuit against it alleging owed back taxes. ?The fact that you?re releasing a report in between Christmas and New Year's, the fact that there are components of it that are nothing more than a mere power grab.?

But Port Authority Chairman John Degnan, who was on the panel that prepared the report, said the recommendations are not final and that curtailing service is one of several options to save money.

Read more:
http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/ ... service.html#incart_river

Privatization of a money losing venture... A different idiotic Republican of New Jersey went that route before and it was garbage.
what can you say when you have a governor who does not give a sh-t about his own state. office vacancies in northern nj and suburbs are well above those in manhattan, and christie wants to alienate developers and citizens even more.....all those new apartment buildings and hotels are predicated on 24/7 service into manhattan.

eliminating night service should be a non-starter with christie! and i wonder if a large part of the budget shortfall can be traced back to the elegant, but extravagant new path station at wtc. the interest on the debt for that project must in the millions . what 50-75 million per year?

Posted on: 2014/12/29 20:17
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Re: Christie & Cuomo Support Eliminating Weekend Overnight PATH Service
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Stringer wrote:
PATH could be targeted for privatization, service reduction under Port Authority plan embraced by governors

By Matt Friedman | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com
December 29, 2014 at 8:12 AM

JERSEY CITY ? A report by the Port Authority that?s supported by the governors of New York and New Jersey floats the idea of eliminating overnight PATH service and turning over the system's operation to an outside organization ? public or private.

Those ideas, along with others in the 99-page report that was released Saturday night, were slammed today by Jersey City Mayor Steve Fulop, who said curtailing service on one of the region?s most vital transportation links would hurt not just his city's economy, but the state as a whole.

?I think that all too often politicians assume the public is stupid, and this is an example of that,? said Fulop, a Port Authority critic whose administration in May filed a $400 million lawsuit against it alleging owed back taxes. ?The fact that you?re releasing a report in between Christmas and New Year's, the fact that there are components of it that are nothing more than a mere power grab.?

But Port Authority Chairman John Degnan, who was on the panel that prepared the report, said the recommendations are not final and that curtailing service is one of several options to save money.

Read more:
http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/ ... service.html#incart_river

Privatization of a money losing venture... A different idiotic Republican of New Jersey went that route before and it was garbage.

Posted on: 2014/12/29 20:00
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Re: Christie & Cuomo Support Eliminating Weekend Overnight PATH Service
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I don't think you can compare the PATH system other transit systems especially other countries. I doubt those countries pay the salaries that the Port Authority pays its workers. We are in this problem due to those salaries.

Posted on: 2014/12/29 19:57
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Re: Christie & Cuomo Support Eliminating Weekend Overnight PATH Service
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Interestingly, Hong Kong's subway system is wildly successful financially http://www.theatlantic.com/china/arch ... sportation-system/279528/ and like the Port Authority, they own much of the real-estate at their transit hubs. Which begs another question - why cannot the PA follow that model, and better subsidize the PATH?


That was in part of the original strategy of the Hudson Manhattan Railroad. They built an office complex over the original lower Manhattan station.

Resized Image

Posted on: 2014/12/29 19:16
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Re: Christie & Cuomo Support Eliminating Weekend Overnight PATH Service
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PATH could be targeted for privatization, service reduction under Port Authority plan embraced by governors

By Matt Friedman | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com
December 29, 2014 at 8:12 AM

JERSEY CITY ? A report by the Port Authority that?s supported by the governors of New York and New Jersey floats the idea of eliminating overnight PATH service and turning over the system's operation to an outside organization ? public or private.

Those ideas, along with others in the 99-page report that was released Saturday night, were slammed today by Jersey City Mayor Steve Fulop, who said curtailing service on one of the region?s most vital transportation links would hurt not just his city's economy, but the state as a whole.

?I think that all too often politicians assume the public is stupid, and this is an example of that,? said Fulop, a Port Authority critic whose administration in May filed a $400 million lawsuit against it alleging owed back taxes. ?The fact that you?re releasing a report in between Christmas and New Year's, the fact that there are components of it that are nothing more than a mere power grab.?

But Port Authority Chairman John Degnan, who was on the panel that prepared the report, said the recommendations are not final and that curtailing service is one of several options to save money.

Read more:
http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/ ... service.html#incart_river

Posted on: 2014/12/29 19:12
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Re: Christie & Cuomo Support Eliminating Weekend Overnight PATH Service
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Yvonne wrote:
The late Morris Pesin, the father of Liberty State Park, attended the Port Authority meetings. He kept the fares at thirty cents for a long time. Pesin said, "Once the Port Authority raises the fare there will be no stopping." He was right on that point. Pesin always pointed out to the Port Authority, the PATH, was supposed to be a financial loss because the money came from the bridges and tunnels. The PATH was never expected to "break even."

Wikipedia's article on 'Farebox Recovery Ratio' points to the complexity of this problem - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farebox_recovery_ratio The % of PATH's operating costs recovered by fares is, at 41%, higher than most American cities. And our cost/ride is a little higher, but not excessively so.

What is more interesting is comparing how mass transit systems fare in Europe/Asia vs. USA. In Europe and Asia, fares are more commonly zone or distance based, as opposed to the flat rate PATH and the NYC Subway charges. The article suggests fixed fare models are much more dependent on subsidies than variable fare models - a real problem in the US, where cars and roads get most of the money for transit.

Interestingly, Hong Kong's subway system is wildly successful financially http://www.theatlantic.com/china/arch ... sportation-system/279528/ and like the Port Authority, they own much of the real-estate at their transit hubs. Which begs another question - why cannot the PA follow that model, and better subsidize the PATH?


That was a very interesting chart, but I don't it's fair to compare the PATH to the Hong Kong subway system. There's no question that PATH has its deficiencies and could probably do better on the farebox recovery ratio but we're talking about two very different systems. The thing that really caught my eye was that the Las Vegas monorail has a considerably higher farebox recovery ratio than the PATH. The few times I went on that thing, hardly anyone was ever on it, and I've heard numerous stories about the residents of Las Vegas bitching and moaning about it, about how no one uses it and it being a dog of a system that will cost local taxpayers (I believe the casinos that are along the line make up the difference in costs now).

Posted on: 2014/12/29 18:58
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Re: Christie & Cuomo Support Eliminating Weekend Overnight PATH Service
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Yvonne wrote:
The late Morris Pesin, the father of Liberty State Park, attended the Port Authority meetings. He kept the fares at thirty cents for a long time. Pesin said, "Once the Port Authority raises the fare there will be no stopping." He was right on that point. Pesin always pointed out to the Port Authority, the PATH, was supposed to be a financial loss because the money came from the bridges and tunnels. The PATH was never expected to "break even."

Wikipedia's article on 'Farebox Recovery Ratio' points to the complexity of this problem - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farebox_recovery_ratio The % of PATH's operating costs recovered by fares is, at 41%, higher than most American cities. And our cost/ride is a little higher, but not excessively so.

What is more interesting is comparing how mass transit systems fare in Europe/Asia vs. USA. In Europe and Asia, fares are more commonly zone or distance based, as opposed to the flat rate PATH and the NYC Subway charges. The article suggests fixed fare models are much more dependent on subsidies than variable fare models - a real problem in the US, where cars and roads get most of the money for transit.

Interestingly, Hong Kong's subway system is wildly successful financially http://www.theatlantic.com/china/arch ... sportation-system/279528/ and like the Port Authority, they own much of the real-estate at their transit hubs. Which begs another question - why cannot the PA follow that model, and better subsidize the PATH?

Posted on: 2014/12/29 18:09
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Re: Christie & Cuomo Support Eliminating Weekend Overnight PATH Service
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Monroe wrote:
You must be very angry at Democrat Governor Cuomo. What is his interest in this?


Who fucking cares? We did not and could not vote for him, and he's not tasked to represent the interests of the people and businesses of NJ. This proposal at face value is essentially nuking the economies of the cities PATH serves, the most actively developing in his state, for a bag of beads. And CC endorsing it is utterly irresponsible. Hopefully it will become another rallying point in exposing him as simply a conniving political hack.

And Monroe not caring about anything but defending and deflecting CC at any cost to this city exposes how he is not a JC resident at all, no matter how much time with his GF he spends here.


Posted on: 2014/12/29 17:55
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Re: Christie & Cuomo Support Eliminating Weekend Overnight PATH Service
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PEC0905 wrote:
What we really need is for PATH to be classified as an Urban Transit System just like the NYC Subway so that it will be eligible for additional federal funding. This could be a ploy to get just that......


The committee report actually goes as far as to suggest that if a different operator took over the PATH they might be able to get the system reclassified in order to wiggle out of FRA regulations. But if that's possible, why wouldn't the PA be able to do it themselves?

Posted on: 2014/12/29 17:02
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Re: Christie & Cuomo Support Eliminating Weekend Overnight PATH Service
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PEC0905 wrote:
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ianmac47 wrote:
This is all politics. Its not a real proposal.

1. Its a response to Fulop's lawsuit for $400 million in back taxes.
2. Its a response to the state legislatures voting to restructure the agency while diminishing the power of both governors.
3. Its a shake down for campaign contributions from real estate interests in NJ, many of whom also have a presence in NY.

If this was a real proposal, the real estate developers would be shutting down development on half finished towers rather than continuing to throw good money after bad.



Perfectly stated.

This is all bullsh*t and even the title of this thread is misleading. The Port Authority released a 99 page report proposing several changes across the board and the PATH overnight service change is just one idea of many that was FLOATED. Neither governor singled out PATh and no service change is approved or even pending, so everyone needs to relax.

This has no basis is reality and is politics at its best. All parties involved are scheming and are pushing back at each other to promote hidden agendas.

At the end of the day public transportation is vital and therefore is heavily subsidized. The MTA loses money as does the PATH and just about every other public transportation entity. This is nothing new so the the fact they mention potential savings of 10 million is a joke and a drop in the bucket when you look at the big picture.

Fulop and Zimmer are already pushing back and the banks and developers will do so behind the scenes. The 24/7 PATH service is critical and as Hudson County continues to grow, service needs to increase, not decrease. A new station is coming to Harrison and Christie's buddies have development contracts for the surrounding neighborhood that will depend on PATH so just keep that in mind. Nevermind the WTC Hub that cost 4 billion and is almost complete. 10 million, really??

What we really need is for PATH to be classified as an Urban Transit System just like the NYC Subway so that it will be eligible for additional federal funding. This could be a ploy to get just that......


There is literally nothing misleading about the thread's title. Your opinion may be that this is not a serious proposal, but it is a specific proposal supported by Christie and Cuomo nonetheless.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/ ... TH-Service-286991111.html


Its very serious. But its not intended to be implemented. Its serious because once again Christie is putting politics above policy. Its serious because once again Christie is willing to jeopardize NJ jobs for his own political gain. Its serious that Christie thinks its alright to place in jeopardy millions of dollars of investment in NJ as retribution against political opponents. Its serious that Cuomo is such a scumbag to go along with it. But its not realistic as a proposal given the amount of money that would be lost by developers in Essex and Hudson county.

Posted on: 2014/12/29 16:45
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Re: Christie & Cuomo Support Eliminating Weekend Overnight PATH Service
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The late Morris Pesin, the father of Liberty State Park, attended the Port Authority meetings. He kept the fares at thirty cents for a long time. Pesin said, "Once the Port Authority raises the fare there will be no stopping." He was right on that point. Pesin always pointed out to the Port Authority, the PATH, was supposed to be a financial loss because the money came from the bridges and tunnels. The PATH was never expected to "break even."

Posted on: 2014/12/29 16:40
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Re: Christie & Cuomo Support Eliminating Weekend Overnight PATH Service
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ianmac47 wrote:
This is all politics. Its not a real proposal.

1. Its a response to Fulop's lawsuit for $400 million in back taxes.
2. Its a response to the state legislatures voting to restructure the agency while diminishing the power of both governors.
3. Its a shake down for campaign contributions from real estate interests in NJ, many of whom also have a presence in NY.

If this was a real proposal, the real estate developers would be shutting down development on half finished towers rather than continuing to throw good money after bad.



Perfectly stated.

This is all bullsh*t and even the title of this thread is misleading. The Port Authority released a 99 page report proposing several changes across the board and the PATH overnight service change is just one idea of many that was FLOATED. Neither governor singled out PATh and no service change is approved or even pending, so everyone needs to relax.

This has no basis is reality and is politics at its best. All parties involved are scheming and are pushing back at each other to promote hidden agendas.

At the end of the day public transportation is vital and therefore is heavily subsidized. The MTA loses money as does the PATH and just about every other public transportation entity. This is nothing new so the the fact they mention potential savings of 10 million is a joke and a drop in the bucket when you look at the big picture.

Fulop and Zimmer are already pushing back and the banks and developers will do so behind the scenes. The 24/7 PATH service is critical and as Hudson County continues to grow, service needs to increase, not decrease. A new station is coming to Harrison and Christie's buddies have development contracts for the surrounding neighborhood that will depend on PATH so just keep that in mind. Nevermind the WTC Hub that cost 4 billion and is almost complete. 10 million, really??

What we really need is for PATH to be classified as an Urban Transit System just like the NYC Subway so that it will be eligible for additional federal funding. This could be a ploy to get just that......


There is literally nothing misleading about the thread's title. Your opinion may be that this is not a serious proposal, but it is a specific proposal supported by Christie and Cuomo nonetheless.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/ ... TH-Service-286991111.html

Posted on: 2014/12/29 16:04
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Re: Christie & Cuomo Support Eliminating Weekend Overnight PATH Service
#60
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Quote:

Sommerman wrote:
1. Can't the governors' vetos be overridden?

2. Could closing a mass transit link for six (?) hours in this part of the world violate any clean air acts at the state or federal level?


1. I don't know about NY, but in NJ a veto override requires a 2/3rds vote in the Assembly and the Legislature, and Republican pols refuse to break with Christie no matter what their personal position is. Christie's never lost a veto override vote despite dozens of tries, not even when the original legislation passed almost unanimously. Zero chance he'd lost this one.

2. I doubt it, almost all mass transit services in the rest of the country shut down during overnight hours. If the Metro in DC, the T in Boston, and the BART in SF don't violate clean air acts, then I don't see why PATH would.

Posted on: 2014/12/29 16:04
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Re: Christie & Cuomo Support Eliminating Weekend Overnight PATH Service
#59
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Monroe wrote:
You must be very angry at Democrat Governor Cuomo. What is his interest in this?


He represents his New York constituents, who don't give a #OOPS# about New Jersey. He is doing a good job in that regard.

Christie is supposed to represent New Jersey's interests, but has been a miserable failure in that regard. Too busy spending the past term and a half campaigning for the Presidency.

Posted on: 2014/12/29 16:01
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Re: Christie & Cuomo Support Eliminating Weekend Overnight PATH Service
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You must be very angry at Democrat Governor Cuomo. What is his interest in this?

Posted on: 2014/12/29 15:59
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