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Re: Hundreds turn out for start of Fugitive Safe Surrender in Jersey City
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papadage wrote:
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owlie wrote:
They live among us?.CHARMING!

I would rather have many of them than some of the investment banking crowd.

Half of the investment banking crowd would probably be fugitives if Obama and his crew of Wall Street enablers bothered to enforce McCain-Feingold...

Posted on: 2013/11/20 15:22
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Re: Hundreds turn out for start of Fugitive Safe Surrender in Jersey City
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And yet the soccer mom who gets by on "momma's little helpers" doesn't have to deal with the same stigma and legal consequences.

Nor the banker who do powder.

Or the lawyers and medical interns on speed.

---

Anyway, time to go out for a delicious dinner. Good night.

Posted on: 2013/11/17 0:53
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Re: Hundreds turn out for start of Fugitive Safe Surrender in Jersey City
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papadage wrote:
Nice try, but you are kinda hung up by your own words...

Heroin abuse is a public health issue. Criminalizing it helps not a bit. Also, you have probably smoked pot more recently than I have, so let's not throw stones, chief.


Sorry pal, I don't toke. Heroin abuse is a public health issue. I agree. The health of the addict, and the mental health of their friends and family. It's fun to have this talk though, because in the end, heroin possession will always be a felony. Have a good evening, and hopefully nobody you know dies or ruins their life due to hard drugs.

Posted on: 2013/11/17 0:48
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Re: Hundreds turn out for start of Fugitive Safe Surrender in Jersey City
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Nice try, but you are kinda hung up by your own words...

Heroin abuse is a public health issue. Criminalizing it helps not a bit. Also, you have probably smoked pot more recently than I have, so let's not throw stones, chief.

And it looks like you would agree that the war on drugs is wrong, but can't get over the icky drugs enough to see why it would be better to offer treatment than counter productive prison sentences.

Posted on: 2013/11/17 0:43
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Re: Hundreds turn out for start of Fugitive Safe Surrender in Jersey City
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papadage wrote:
There are two things wrong with that:

1. Addiction is a medical issue, and by criminalizing drugs, we do not seek to treat, but to punish. People will hide their addiction instead of seeking help.

2. Heroin is no worse than many other drugs, including prescription pharmaceuticals, but by criminalizing it, we also help the spread of disease along by making needle sharing more common. Most of the problems with heroin would be lessened if people could get help openly, instead of havign to hide in shame.

Look at how many people, when given a chance, turned themselves in to get a clean slate. Forcing people to live in a shadow society because drugs are icky is counter productive.

I have had many friends affected by drug issues, and most of them would have been better off if it was treated as a medical and social issue instead of through imprisonment.

Also, because drugs are criminalized, street trash quality drugs, adulterated drugs, overdoses and secondary medical effects are much more common.

I'm forty-five, and am a life long resident of this town, and not in the mostly sheltered enclaves like Country Village, nor a recent starry eyes transplant. So yeah.. whatever... Before slinging insults about who is naive, think about the natural consequences of the failed war on drugs.


Since you're a life long resident of this town, then you're well-versed in the heroin purity of New Jersey's heroin that is dealt primarily out of Newark and Jersey City. Thankfully, most of society will never agree with you on this topic. Take another toke and give it a rest for tonight. The war on drugs will never end, and it will forever be ingrained in our country's constant pursuit to jail more of it's own citizens than any other country. Do you really think heroin isn't worse than pot? Seriously man, if you really think that you need to give yourself a hard reality check. That's ^%&$ up.

Posted on: 2013/11/17 0:28

Edited by Seagull on 2013/11/17 0:49:50
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Re: Hundreds turn out for start of Fugitive Safe Surrender in Jersey City
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There are two things wrong with that:

1. Addiction is a medical issue, and by criminalizing drugs, we do not seek to treat, but to punish. People will hide their addiction instead of seeking help.

2. Heroin is no worse than many other drugs, including prescription pharmaceuticals, but by criminalizing it, we also help the spread of disease along by making needle sharing more common. Most of the problems with heroin would be lessened if people could get help openly, instead of havign to hide in shame.

Look at how many people, when given a chance, turned themselves in to get a clean slate. Forcing people to live in a shadow society because drugs are icky is counter productive.

I have had many friends affected by drug issues, and most of them would have been better off if it was treated as a medical and social issue instead of through imprisonment.

Also, because drugs are criminalized, street trash quality drugs, adulterated drugs, overdoses and secondary medical effects are much more common.

I'm forty-five, and am a life long resident of this town, and not in the mostly sheltered enclaves like Country Village, nor a recent starry eyes transplant. So yeah.. whatever... Before slinging insults about who is naive, think about the natural consequences of the failed war on drugs.


Also.. you, just a couple of years ago..

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Seagull wrote:
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borisp wrote:
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Seagull wrote:
I'm not going to debate with you, but since you believe crimes are only acts that violate other people's rights, then I'm very happy you agree with me.


Why not debate?

My question was simple - is it only about minor drugs for you, or is it about everything? Would you argue against any law that regulates what people do even when there is no victim, - like "not wearing a seat-belt", - or just this one?

Basically, is it a matter of principle, or do you just favor specifically marijuana smoking?


It's not about marijuana smoking specifically, it's about personal freedoms. Who is anyone to say how you treat your own body? If you want to live a healthy lifestyle without drugs and alcohol that's fine, but if you want to pollute it with drugs and alcohol then you should have that right to do so as well. So to answer your question, it's about the principle of personal freedoms, in this case to treat your body in accordance to your own wishes.

Posted on: 2013/11/17 0:15
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Re: Hundreds turn out for start of Fugitive Safe Surrender in Jersey City
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papadage wrote:
Pretty much. If all are legal, people will gravitate to the safer ones and not home cooked meth. Also, they can be regulated and then addiction can be treated like a public health problem and not through incarceration.

The moral crusade to jail street drug addicts would grind to a halt tomorrow if soccer moms on prescription meds and investment bankers and lawyers on powder cocaine were being jailed in similar proportions as the crack and meth-heads are. That and the fact that majority of the country has smoked pot, so has no right to be judgmental.


Definitely don't agree with you, and I guess you've never experienced someone with drug addiction in your life. Let's use heroin for an example. Going through life physically addicted to a substance is no way to live, and it shouldn't readily be accessible to anyone. Heroin will destroy your hope and it will ruin the lives of the addict and ruin their relationships with their family and friends. I think pot should be legalized by the way. If you really think heroin should be legalized, you're either young and naive, or you've lived a very sheltered life.

Posted on: 2013/11/17 0:06
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Re: Hundreds turn out for start of Fugitive Safe Surrender in Jersey City
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Pretty much. If all are legal, people will gravitate to the safer ones and not home cooked meth. Also, they can be regulated and then addiction can be treated like a public health problem and not through incarceration.

The moral crusade to jail street drug addicts would grind to a halt tomorrow if soccer moms on prescription meds and investment bankers and lawyers on powder cocaine were being jailed in similar proportions as the crack and meth-heads are. That and the fact that majority of the country has smoked pot, so has no right to be judgmental.

Posted on: 2013/11/16 21:01
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Re: Hundreds turn out for start of Fugitive Safe Surrender in Jersey City
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Most of which are bullshit crimes, resulting in the US imprisoning a greater percentage of its population than any other first world country. And of course the growth of the professional prison industry.

Drug use and personal possession should be fully decriminalized.

Lots of authoritarians in this town. It's a pity.


All drugs?

Posted on: 2013/11/16 19:47
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Re: Hundreds turn out for start of Fugitive Safe Surrender in Jersey City
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Most of which are bullshit crimes, resulting in the US imprisoning a greater percentage of its population than any other first world country. And of course the growth of the professional prison industry.

Drug use and personal possession should be fully decriminalized.

Lots of authoritarians in this town. It's a pity.

Posted on: 2013/11/16 19:37
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Re: Hundreds turn out for start of Fugitive Safe Surrender in Jersey City
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@ I'm glad you are so complacent about illegal drug users living among us. Drugs equate to higher incidences of crime.

Posted on: 2013/11/16 19:29
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Re: Hundreds turn out for start of Fugitive Safe Surrender in Jersey City
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owlie wrote:
They live among us?.CHARMING!
"99 percent of the cases resolved without requiring jail time.
Unpaid parking tickets. Failure to make court appearances. Driving without a license. Driving while suspended. Illegal drug possession."

THE HORROR

Posted on: 2013/11/16 6:13
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Re: Hundreds turn out for start of Fugitive Safe Surrender in Jersey City
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Many of the people who turned themselves in at the surrender just had long standing warrants for traffic and DMV offenses, or had fines they could not afford, and have had to live underground as fugitives for years.

I had such a situation when I was younger. Unpaid parking tickets become a suspension, which becomes a driving while suspended, and then it snowballs as I ignored it. It took a threat of actual overnight stays in jail to clear it up.. and all just due from being discouraged and broke at the time.

Violent felons are not eligible for the surrender, so in many cases, I would think the average person on that line has less sociopathic tendencies than the average investment banker. Most of them I have known have had less character than the average street hustler.


Posted on: 2013/11/16 0:18
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Re: Hundreds turn out for start of Fugitive Safe Surrender in Jersey City
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Indeed Seagull, INDEED!

Posted on: 2013/11/15 23:29
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Re: Hundreds turn out for start of Fugitive Safe Surrender in Jersey City
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papadage wrote:
Better a real criminal than the same with a white collar.


Can't say I agree with you there. I can appreciate what you're saying with crooked bankers and all, but at least the crooked bankers aren't going to be raping or maiming my wife while stealing her purse.

Posted on: 2013/11/15 23:28
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Re: Hundreds turn out for start of Fugitive Safe Surrender in Jersey City
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Better a real criminal than the same with a white collar.

Posted on: 2013/11/15 23:09
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Re: Hundreds turn out for start of Fugitive Safe Surrender in Jersey City
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@papadage

LOL!!!!!!!I am sure you would!

Posted on: 2013/11/15 22:42
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Re: Hundreds turn out for start of Fugitive Safe Surrender in Jersey City
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owlie wrote:
They live among us?.CHARMING!

I would rather have many of them than some of the investment banking crowd.

Posted on: 2013/11/15 22:19
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Re: Hundreds turn out for start of Fugitive Safe Surrender in Jersey City
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owlie wrote:
They live among us?.CHARMING!

With affordable housing...yes they do.

Posted on: 2013/11/13 13:00
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Re: Hundreds turn out for start of Fugitive Safe Surrender in Jersey City
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They live among us?.CHARMING!

Posted on: 2013/11/13 2:58
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Re: Hundreds turn out for start of Fugitive Safe Surrender in Jersey City
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Posted on: 2013/11/12 23:15
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Hundreds turn out for start of Fugitive Safe Surrender in Jersey City
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Hundreds turn out for start of Fugitive Safe Surrender in Jersey City

By Jonathan Lin/The Jersey Journal
on November 06, 2013 at 10:14 AM, updated November 06, 2013 at 12:43 PM

Several hundred people have already come to a Jersey City church this morning to take advantage of the state Fugitive Safe Surrender program through which they hope to plead guilty to non-violent crimes and avoid jail time.

Lines are stretching along Montgomery Street as the fugitives -- people with warrants out against them -- wait to enter to the Evangelismos Greek Orthodox Church on Montgomery Street for what officials say is "favorable consideration," with 99 percent of the cases resolved without requiring jail time.

Unpaid parking tickets. Failure to make court appearances. Driving without a license. Driving while suspended. Illegal drug possession.

These are just some of the outstanding warrants the more than 750 people who have turned themselves in so far this morning to law enforcement officials are facing as people from all over New Jersey -- and beyond -- have shown up at the church?s doors.

Once the fugitives are processed in the church, they move on to the Jersey City Armory, catty-corner across Montgomery, where mini "courtrooms'' have been set up. Surrounded by white and yellow curtains, the mini-courtrooms are fitted with computers and recording software, bringing all the bells and whistles of a regular courthouse to the Armory floor, which is painted for track meets.
Lawyers and judges will then adjudicate the fugitives' cases.

Traffic around the area is slow, compounded by construction.

Jersey City and State Police are among the officials directing the fugitives into the church for registration.

One optimistic police officer on the premises estimated that 10,000 people would be coming through the doors of the church by the time the program ends on Saturday.

Justin Rodriguez, 25, of North Bergen, was one of hundreds who stood outside the church in the chill morning air while police officers kept the line moving in an orderly fashion.

He had at least five outstanding municipal warrants in different towns ranging from Fort Lee to Clifton to Seaside Heights, he said.

?I wanted to get my life back,? he said, noting that he was also in a drug rehabilitation program at Integrity House in Newark. ?I wanted to get on the right track.?

Anthony Hamm, 53, flew up from Boca Raton, Fla., to take care of a probation violation from Newark.

"I want to get it over with,'' he said.

Another man, who uses a wheelchair, came from Georgia but declined to be interviewed.

The program continues through Saturday at the church, 661 Montgomery St., from 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. For information, call (855) 337-6512 or visit the Fugitive Safe Surrender website.

This is the fifth program in New Jersey with the others having taken place in Camden, Newark, Somerset/New Brunswick, and Atlantic City.

Officials had originally estimated some 4,000 fugitives would take advantage of the program this week.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... ender_in_jersey_city.html

Posted on: 2013/11/6 21:00
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