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Re: Those New construction 2 Families
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Home away from home
 
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The worst thing is the zoning sometimes requires crappy infill.
There's rows of grand brick 4 story 25 wides that infill code requires 3 story, 2 families, 20 ft wide and unattached. At least they got rid of the front setbacks like on 7th across from Academic, but this is still not fitting into the block. If you were a developer buying one of these lots, you wouldn't be able to build as dense as the buildings surrounding you. This may be a reason for the cheap construction. High land and construction costs relative to the sq footage you're allowed to build forces them to cheap out. Not that some need a reason, but the numbers are bizzarre. Try this: I was told a lot downtown costs $300K and decent construction costs can average $150/ft. The new construction at Coles & 7th, a 2 family of ~4000 sq ft, sold for $500k each. Thats a theoretical margin of $100k, which doesn't account for legal fees or bridge loan debt service, etc. That doesn't sound like a way to make money to me. I wandered through the open house there and for $500k you got the same $350 range I put in my rentals, Oak floors already cupped and trim details that looked like someone didn't know what a miter joint was, or how to sand putty for that matter. Anyone have an explanation, other than they spent lots less per foot? It sure looked that way. I'd love to know the numbers there and the places in the heights. I do know the numbers they use for "replacement" in appraisals have nothing to do with reality.
Posted on: 2005/12/26 6:40
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Re: What is the mission of a Historic District? (moved from What's this letter from Warren G. Curtin
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Interesting points ECH, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find any resident today on the side of really eliminating the districts. Just look at some the of the crappy infill like the setback white brickface stuff on 7th between Monmouth & Coles.
Could you clarify what block you mean by the following passage, are you referring to actual infill or restoration or what could happen if...? Quote:
Posted on: 2005/12/15 18:51
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Re: What is the mission of a Historic District? (moved from What's this letter from Warren G. Curtin
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Dan, You answered my question in your 2nd paragraph. No one was suggesting gutting or eliminating the Historic guidelines, but that hearsay is what has taken hold and colored the whole discussion. I suspect the residents of the other districts still haven't heard the ACTUAL proposals, rather than "they want to eliminate the historic districts".
The folks who have done the homework say historic districts around the nation function more along the lines of what they propose, rather than the strict orthodoxy of the current guidelines. It seem those districts recognize that historic cohesion is as important as absolute authenticity. It appears the only choices you would allow for St Francis is a modern tower or a slavish reproduction of the original hospital building. How is either the best thing for our neighborhood? JPhurst: Is that rusty chain link fence one of the "existing features" you value and wish to preserve as an artifact of the property's history? Quote:
Posted on: 2005/12/15 17:56
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What is the mission of a Historic District? (moved from What's this letter from Warren G. Curtin?)
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This thread was created as DanL requested a new thread topic closer to the discussion.
Dan, I'm sorry, but it's pretty condescending to think that all these people "just don't get it" because they're ignorant. We understand the aesthetic concept of clearly delineating the original and reproduction from the imitation, we just don't agree with it's application in the neighborhoods. As I said, we believe a distinctly modern fence is more detrimental to the Historic nature of that lovely block on Jersey than a period fence of a different design. And had a replacement "victorian" style fence been installed 50 years ago (clearly visible elsewhere in the district), we would not be discussing removing it. You apparently believe the glass and metal tower with terraces originally presented by the Silvermans, which ( as explained by it's architect) was explicitly designed to ""fit" in or be compatiable with historic areas and fabric - proportion, bulk, density, volume, materials, carrying through horizontal and vertical lines" would be better than the latest design (which is fully documented at the 25mc.org/ site you linked). There were few in agreement with that position at a meeting with at least 60 residents there. One wonders how a large representative slice of Hamilton Park Historic District can be so at odds with what we're told residents of the other districts believe. Quote:
Posted on: 2005/12/10 18:10
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Re: What's this letter from Warren G. Curtin about?
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Dan,
I guess we in HP are just not true believers in the Historic Purity Ideal. When the Silverman Bros presented us with their first designs for the St Frances site which were explicitly designed NOT to look faux victorian, in accordance with your philosophy, the concensus of the HPNA attendees was we preferred a faked historic look. The next design they brought http://jclist.com/modules/newbb/viewt ... 0&forum=11#forumpost36839, combining elements of classic prewar apartments buildings with mansard roofs and other period features, elicited general praise from the crowd. Basically, it seems we would rather things fit in than be authentic. We would prefer a inauthentic period fence to a rusty chain link one, or even a pristine but modern looking one. It's the latter that would have visitors to our neighborhood saying "what were they thinking?!!" Your attitude reminds me of the people admonished on Antiques Roadshow for having reupholstered the shredded covering on an 18th century chair. It may have been more valuable intact but they loved it and wanted to live with it in their dining room, as we want to live in our historic neighborhood, rather than just relish the "Historically Pure" elements. Quote:
Posted on: 2005/12/8 17:52
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Re: What's this letter from Warren G. Curtin about?
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While I don't have a dog in this fight, as I live some 40 feet outside the district, I have heard some of the arguments and much of it sounds reasonable. On the other hand what sounds unreasonable is being told the only way to replace an ugly rusting chain link fence is to convince your neighbor to "loan" you a section of his fragile old cast iron fence and spend $40k having a custom mold and fence sections cast from it , when perfectly attractive period looking iron fence can be had at a fraction of that price. But the commission said since an old photograph exists showing that pattern fence, that was what he had to do. There were lots more crazy stories, but that one I remembered clearly for being over the top.
Here's an excerpt from a recent document from the HPNA committee, it's hardly a repeal of the historic zone, despite the hearsay. I will say that in my opinion Warren and colleagues should have raised some more public support from other districts before presenting their case. Excerpt from HPNA Historic Preservation FACT Sheet: What has HPNA recommended? Based on the past year of review and meetings, the HPNA provided the following recommended changes to the Historic Commission: ? Historic Paint Colors HPNA recommended that homeowners be allowed to choose paint colors from historic color charts as opposed to having the color dictated by the HPO. ? Routine Maintenance and Repair HPNA recommended that historic review not be required for projects that meet the definition of routine maintenance and repair. Since maintenance and repair projects do not alter historic features, such projects have no historic effect and should be allowed to proceed without historic review. ? Existing Conditions HPNA recommended that homeowners be allowed to repair and maintain existing conditions that are not historic. Homeowners should not be required to correct existing conditions in order to obtain a Certificate of No Effect. Allowing these conditions to continue does not have historic impact. ? Missing Historic Features The Design Standard currently allows existing exterior features to be replaced with a "style and finish of the period." Yet, the standard for missing features requires the "accurate duplication of features." HPNA recommended that the design standard be modified to allow the replacement of missing features with a style and finish of the period instead of accurate duplications. ? Financial Incentives HPNA recommended that the City provide financial assistance and incentives for restoration efforts. Many historic ordinances have provisions to freeze property taxes, and provide low-interest loans or grants for homeowners who undertake costly restoration projects. What are the benefits of these changes? The proposed changes would strengthen historic preservation in Jersey City by: o Addressing and correcting homeowner confusion and frustration; o Expediting the maintenance and repair of historic properties; o Reducing the cost of replacing missing architectural features; and o Encouraging restoration through financial incentives including tax abatements, low-interest loans, and grants.
Posted on: 2005/12/8 4:18
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Re: Does the HPNA represent the community?
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Quote:
Interesting, Minnie says democracy doesn't work unless you're in charge! At least that's consistent with her inability to work with ANYBODY when she's not in charge! The fact is none of the active senior members of the board are officers, clearly falsifying her above statement. Lets see, she couldn't work with last years board, so she agitated for new members in the election and, lo and behold, got them not just in a majority but in the officerships, but couldn't get along with ANY of them either! Now she want's to try again. If someone wants to be on the HPNA board, let them run for trustee and have a voice and a vote. Then they can run for office and throw the rest of rascals out next year. But likely by then they too have seen the light and can't get along with Minnie. As for me, I'm on the board for 1 reason. To represent families interests, because when I joined there was only 1 other parent. This included being a rational voice for a dog run so as to safely share the park, a time when even the dog owners were rejecting the idea. (Minnie is opposed to a dog run) If voices on the board were limited to those with unlimited time because they have no work or family commitments, all that would be left would be Minnie!
Posted on: 2005/11/16 17:42
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Re: Does the HPNA represent the community?
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Quote:
The current board recognized that while inclusiveness is good, so is a rational system of governance, a long overdue revision of the bylaws. Requiring a member to actually live in HP and have actually become a member and attended 1 meeting before voting on issues doesn't seem rash to me. Otherwise HPNA can be overrun by "carpetbaggers" coming to vote on any issue that is notorious enough and swamping our dedicated members. As always, our meetings are open to anyone from anywhere who wishes to attend. Does requiring someone to have shown some interest in how the organization works before running it seem crazy? Despite the fact that Sam has done an excellent job without having been a board member before, even his "classmates" agreed it was not a generally good idea. If you want to run HPNA, spend a term as a trustee. Simply run. We're so "exclusive" that in my 8 years living here I have yet to see a contested trustee election. At the same time as restricting officership to a previous boardmember, we leave open trusteeships to new members, as a way to encourage more participation. And for this we're called Nazis. PS: Families are perenially under represented on the board because we're so damn busy. The birth of Jen's son brings the parents of minors to 4 out of 15. Any parent who feels they can contribute and can find the time should consider it.
Posted on: 2005/11/16 1:51
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Re: Does the HPNA represent the community?
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Quote:
Before you rag you should have your facts straight, rather than buying into Minnie's badmouthing an earnest hardworking group that she alienated with her bullying behaviour. Now WHO are these "few individuals [who] retain their tyrannical control"? Of the 15 HPNA boardmembers elected a year ago, only 7, including Minnie, were incumbent. Of the 5 officers, only Minnie and the treasurer Tom had even been on the board before. Does this sound like an organization keeping people out and monopolizing power? Note that we couldn't even get one more person to run to fill out the board. Despite the spin of what Minnie and her allies say, this isn't about the "old guard", it's about the "new guard' rejecting her manipulations and attempts to control everything.
Posted on: 2005/11/15 23:09
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Re: Flooding (help)
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Home away from home
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The problem with this thread is that people are talking past each other about at least 3 distinctly different flooding situations.
1- runoff from yard or driveway that fails to drain. 2- overcharged sewer backing up into toilets, drains or bath past no or failing check valve. 3- overcharging sewer leaks into fill through cracks and offsets and penetrates the foundation (my problem) #'s 1 & 2 have technical solutions on the property that have not been tried or need to be repaired, but 3 cuts to the core of whats wrong with JC's infrastructure. It is the most common from my conversations, but most people have been told by the MUA that it's groundwater, a lie. The sewers simply can't move the water they collect, and they leak because 100 year old brick and clay mains have never been maintained. When we get a heavy rain, I can track the progress of the flood. I have a tall cleanout on my sewer I can open and see how high the sewer has flooded. But my check valve works fine. So what happens is it takes a certain amount of time for the water to travel through the street fill from the leaky main in the street to my foundation. Then every opening in the foundation starts to spout like a fountain. If I were to french drain the basement, there's no way any pumps could keep up with the thousands of gallons that would come pouring in. for the period of the flood my basement is a leaky submarine, not to be solved by making more holes! As I said in an earlier thread, the sewer problems of this city are solvable, New Orleans is 15' below sea level and doesn't flood. The problem, as Tom Gibbons has pointed out, is that the city simply will not admit there IS a problem, never mind try to plan out a solution. (there is NO master plan for modernizing the sewers) What we need to do is create a political constituency that will not let them get of the hook with lies about groundwater and tides. If sewer modernization became an election issue we would see action, which is exactly why they lie to us. As anyone who followed the last election knows, all it takes is a few hundred votes to throw a councilman out of office. We need to let them know this is important to us, and they better care or feel our wrath. Tom has pointed out that other cities have been fined for not maintaining their sewer infrastructure. We need to create that kind of pressure. It's simply unacceptable for million dollar properties to have shit in their basements every time it rains hards.
Posted on: 2005/7/9 17:15
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