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Re: Letter from fire chief: Mr. Fulop, you haven't a clue
#31
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Quote:

Slacky wrote:

Quote:
Probably because he is talking about more than one average.


That's just supposition, and pretty desperate too. There's nothing to indicate that in what Fulop says, in fact to the contrary he states "for each person".

Quote:
Let's move on.


I'll move on when I'm proved wrong or you stop trying to prove me wrong.

I'm not against Fulop, as I said before I'd take him over Healy any day. That doesn't mean I'm going to take everything he says as gospel or keep quiet when I think he is wrong.

What is really worrying is that you will argue so long and hard, changing your argument again and again until you decide it's time to "move on". It's like you want him to be right because you think he is a good man, not because you think he is right.


If you dont want to move on, I will. I don't see any point in arguing the details any more. I have changed my argument because there is more than one way that you can be wrong and probably only one way you can be right. I have changed my mind, after thinking about this, on the major point that Fulop was actually talking about but I think the other points I made are still valid.

If I thought Fulop was wrong, I would say so. Good will only goes so far and doesn't change him from being wrong to being right. I have only spoken briefly to Steve on a few occasions and haven't formed that much of an opinion about the man. There is at least one issue where I think he is more wrong-headed than you are about this (but that is for another time). His actions would lead me to believe he is a good man but not knowing you, I would say the same about you in the absence of any information to the contrary.

If I wanted to criticize Steve's statement I would say his language was not very precise. I wouldn't use a word like "astronomical" to describe a number that didnt end with a lot of zeros, if I was actually referring to a number between 0 and 1. Yes, there is some supposition about the way he is using the word average. I think it is more likely that he is using it consistently with what I describe than the way you describe it.

Let's say for arguments sake that you are right and somehow the actual average is $120,001. To me it doesn't make that much difference than if the figure was $155,999. Obviously neither is correct or close to being correct and it doesnt really alter Steve's point. The fact that somebody interpreted this as meaning the average fireman makes $156k is not Steve's fault. That person did not take the time and trouble to read that Fulop was only referring to supervisor salaries and that person may make all their election choices on incomplete and incorrect information. Not much Fulop or you or I can do about that.

Posted on: 2010/6/4 1:07
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Re: Letter from fire chief: Mr. Fulop, you haven't a clue
#32
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Quote:

Slacky wrote:

It goes without saying that the average will fall between the highest and lowest figure, but it is misleading to state that the average is between 120,000 and 156,000 because it implies that they could all be on that higher figure.


Yeah, like it equally implies they could all be on the lower figure.




Quote:

If you're going to state an average, then why not present an average?


Probably because he is talking about more than one average.
Unlikely he saw all the figures just the average figure for each grade (and yes there was only one person in the top grade, so that's not an average, but all the other grades had more than one person in them). There is an average salary for each level. Not all people at the same level get the same pay. All the salary averages of the different supervisor positions fall within the stated range.

Let's move on.

Posted on: 2010/6/3 17:47
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Update
#33
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Quote:

PubliusIII wrote:
Well, maybe I misconstrued it, but I thought I detected a bias against people not living directly around the park, e.g. black kids from Holland Gardens, and also a sense that only stakeholders, those right in the immediate environs of the park had standing to opine. I am happy to think I am wrong and that my discolure was extraneous.


It sounded like you were talking about moving here unless you were intending on leaving your house and being homeless in the park. The ultimate arbiter about who is to opine would seem to be the webmaster. But if you are right, (and I am wrong) even he will answer to a higher authority, one day.

It's all a pecking order; folks with kids at the top, then the dog owners, then people living close by and then everybody else. Although really it's about who is the loudest vessel.
Still, it's a bit rich when people who come from afar or are only occasional users try to lecture those that live close by to be more tolerant when they do not experience the inconveniences on a daily ( or more accurately nightly ) basis.

Posted on: 2010/6/3 17:18
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Update
#34
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Quote:

PubliusIII wrote:
I'll swap my house on Pacific and Communipau for anyone who is burdened by living on Hamilton Park (and before someone objects to my coming in to the neighborhood, my kids live there with their x, I lived there for five years, and my father and uncles went to St. Michaels and practiced track in the park in the 1930s). There is nothing better than the experience of a free public basketball court. It is a true democracy.


Why would anyone object to you coming into the HP neighborhood? And why would the facts you state make any difference to that?

I think there are some people here that disagree about whether there is anything better than a free public basketball court, but since it was not a voting option to keep it or lose it, we will never know if it is true democracy.

[I will have to trade religious barbs with you another time as it seems my earlier response and your reply have been expunged.]

Posted on: 2010/6/3 16:01
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Re: Letter from fire chief: Mr. Fulop, you haven't a clue
#35
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Quote:

Slacky wrote:
Quote:

sinik wrote:
Given the nature of pay structures it is extremely unlikely that one person gets $156,000 and the rest all get $120,000. You are being at least as disingenuous as what you are accusing Fulop of.

If pay is variable due to factors such as bonus, overtime then it would be correct to talk in terms of average incomes (and I admit I don't know if supervisors are entitied to either). If pay raises are not awarded equally at the same time of year (e.g are awarded on anniversary of service or some other interval), being just as pedantic as you are, then it would be correct to talk in terms of average salaries.

Based on this I am not quite ready to cite Fulop for duplicity or incompetence and call for his resignation


Oh dear. You need to go back to school, son.

Firstly, I never said one person got $156,000 and the rest got $120,000, I said "there may well be one employee on $156,000 with the majority closer to the $120,000". One would think you'd have absorbed that seeing as you read my post and quoted it.


There is what you say and what I think you mean. What you actually said, if taken literally, is that perhaps 49.999999% of salaries are closer to $156,000 and that 50.000001% of salaries are closer to $120,000 in other words the average salary could be just higher than the mid-point (forgetting about the different possible types of averages: mean, median, mode).
Is that what you meant to communicate? Didn't think so. You meant to communicate that the actual average could be strongly skewed one way, which, "given the nature of pay structures" is extremely unlikely. OK?


Quote:

I'd imagine the Fire Service has a hierarchy and that the pay reflects that. Maybe you know better, but I doubt it based on your post.


Yep, most likely there are different pay grades (and that is not a single figure, that is an actual range for each grade) and people in each pay grade can have different salaries depending on things like length of service, performance reviews etc. Don't know about the fire service, but that's how it works most places. Most likely, all the salaries in each pay grade are averaged first and then a total average is calculated. I imagine that is what Fulop means by talking about average salaries unless he had all the figures for every single persons salary (doubtful).

Quote:

Secondly, Fulop clearly states "an average salary between $120,000 and $156,000". A salary is defined as a fixed compensation periodically paid to a person for regular work or services. Salary does not include bonuses or overtime.


Yep, people don't always use "salary" and "income" literally and perhaps we should haul Steve over the coals if in fact he was meaning income instead of salary. Of course if he did mean salary and not income and there are overtime payments to all or some of these supervisors, well then the situation would be a whole lot worse, wouldn't it?

Quote:

Thirdly, a pay rise in the middle of the year, or at any other time, would result in the salary of that year being calculated as the initial salary plus the pay rise proportional to the time it was paid within that year.


Unless the calculation was done for a previous year rather than a projection of the current year,
it would include estimates and averages.

Posted on: 2010/6/2 19:25
 Top 


Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Update
#36
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Home away from home


If I remember correctly, Minnie, there were a number of options residents were given of different park configurations to choose from (including some crazy-ass option to add miniature golf).
Among these options there was no proposal to remove the basketball court although there were options to remove one or both tennis courts.

Effectively the preservation of the basketball court had been already decided in a smoke-filled room.

It's very easy for some people here to play the race card in an effort to halt further discussion of this issue. This is about quality of life issues such as noise and disturbance on the court late at night which has nothing whatsoever to do with race.
I notice that the person that was using innuendo to invoke a charge of racism does not live on the square in close proximity to the court. I hope that person and her children will continue to enjoy the use of the park but will consider the thoughts of others who may have good reason to regret the use of the park by noisy people at unsocial hours regardless of whether those noisy people are basketball players or shrieking kids in the playground.

Posted on: 2010/6/2 15:47
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Re: Letter from fire chief: Mr. Fulop, you haven\'t a clue
#37
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Quote:

Slacky wrote:
Quote:

GrovePath wrote:
Fulop Letter: Chief presents a false choice...

In the Jersey City Fire Department, an astronomical one-third of the Fire Department are supervisors with an average salary between $120,000 and $156,000 for each person.


That's not an average, that's a range. An average is a single value that is meant to typify a list of values, not two values representing the lowest and highest values.
Given the nature of pay structures, there may well be one employee on $156,000 with the majority closer to the $120,000 mark, but here the highest number is presented in equal measure.



Given the nature of pay structures it is extremely unlikely that one person gets $156,000 and the rest all get $120,000. You are being at least as disingenuous as what you are accusing Fulop of.

If pay is variable due to factors such as bonus, overtime then it would be correct to talk in terms of average incomes (and I admit I don't know if supervisors are entitied to either). If pay raises are not awarded equally at the same time of year (e.g are awarded on anniversary of service or some other interval), being just as pedantic as you are, then it would be correct to talk in terms of average salaries.

Based on this I am not quite ready to cite Fulop for duplicity or incompetence and call for his resignation

Posted on: 2010/6/2 15:02
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Re: Letter from fire chief: Mr. Fulop, you haven't a clue
#38
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Quote:

JC_DowntownRegular wrote:
Quote:

sinik wrote:
The trouble was you could not fit 5 engines on the street I was living on at the time so they wouldnt have been able to provide much assistance.


I'm not a structural firefighter, but to say that they wouldn't have been able to provide much assistance is a gross misstatement.

They provide additional manpower and can stretch additional hoselays. So it doesn't matter if they wouldn't have been able to fit on the street.

Also, when fighting a structure fire, they don't just fight it from one side (hence breaking a structure down to the A,B,C, and D sides). So if it is a corner house they can attack in from multiple sides easily, an unattached house they can attack from multiple sides easily, etc. It also depends on the type of structure - is it attached with a cockloft, is it a taxpayer, is it all wooden frame and materials, etc.

Just for comparison, a one alarm response from FDNY is

* 4 engines
* 3 ladders
* 2 battalion chiefs
* 1 rescue
* 1 squad
* 1 deputy chief
* 1 RAC unit


Minimal FDNY response is sent for the following conditions:
1 Engine
* brush fires
* outside rubbish fires
* downed wires
* residential refrigerant leaks
* CFR runs
* medical alert central station alarms
* other non-structural outside fires

1 Ladder
* water leaks
* downed trees/limbs blocking the street
* loose or hanging cornice
* stuck occupied elevators
* lock ins/outs
* other incidents where ladders or tools may be needed

1 Engine + 1 Ladder
* car fires
* struck pedestrian
* vehicle collisions
* elevated railroad ties (el ties)
* automatic alarms (CO, smoke, fire) in a private residence
* gasoline leaks on the street
* any other incident occurring on a street
* any incident where both units may be needed (i.e., stuck elevator with a injured passenger

In firefighting, we tend to send more resources. Unused resources can always be returned to quarters or rerouted to another incident.


Thank you for the details. The illustration that FDNY typically responds with one less engine shows that this is not an exact science. A few years ago I was living in JC in a three story building where the alarm would frequently go and 3 engines would come out. So obviously "Standard" response is under constant review (as it should be).

I am very grateful that brave men and women firefighters are prepared to risk their lives and I am also very relieved to know that the six firefighters that were injured in the Belmont Avenue fire are reported to be in "good" condition.

In the case that I am referring to 5 engines approached the "incident" from one side. The row house had an entrance from the wider street at the back (which is the side where the incident was) but no engines approached from that side. I do appreciate the manpower argument, however.

Posted on: 2010/6/1 18:22
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Re: Letter from fire chief: Mr. Fulop, you haven't a clue
#39
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There was no damage, and no appreciable smoke or fire. Can not say what happened to the sausages.

Posted on: 2010/6/1 15:24
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Re: Letter from fire chief: Mr. Fulop, you haven't a clue
#40
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Quote:

jc344 wrote:
Standard response for a working fire is 5 engines 2 ladder companies, rescue1 and a battalion chief....

As you indicated it was just burning sausage on a grill.I would think that if you were going to question the response of the fd you might want to 1st look at the person who called that in.


If it's standard response, why would I question the person that called it in?

Posted on: 2010/6/1 15:19
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Re: Letter from fire chief: Mr. Fulop, you haven't a clue
#41
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Quote:

icechute wrote:
Quote:

sinik wrote:
Five engines responding to my neighbor burning the sausages on his barbecue seemed a little excessive to me but like councilman Fulop I am not a fire expert.


When a call comes in, there is a standard response that may seem over-the-top to you, but is a standard response procedure for most departments.

They err on the side of caution, which is something I for one am fine with.



This is all fine and I agree it is better to respond with too many engines than too few. The trouble was you could not fit 5 engines on the street I was living on at the time so they wouldnt have been able to provide much assistance. I have lived in other parts of the US and in densely populated areas in other countries where this response would be considered unusual.

I used to work in a multi-story building in another state with several hundreds of workers which contained chemical laboratories. There were frequent alarms and only one or two engines at most responded.

Posted on: 2010/6/1 15:01
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Re: Letter from fire chief: Mr. Fulop, you haven't a clue
#42
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Glad to read that the person running the fire department is somebody with a cool head who doesn't react dis-proportionately to criticism. Five engines responding to my neighbor burning the sausages on his barbecue seemed a little excessive to me but like councilman Fulop I am not a fire expert.

It's a minor point but only the year 1980 was thirty years ago and only half of that.

Posted on: 2010/6/1 14:20
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Re: The Hamilton Inn
#43
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Quote:

DouglasReynholm wrote:
This is great. Not only first hand hearsay, but the majority of posts on jclist have two major complaints. 1. Bartenders/Wait Staff is not attentive 2. The food is overpriced.

To me, that spells DOOM. Why are people continuing to go to this place.

To the owner: This is not NYC, Brooklyn or even Hoboken. Serve quality dishes at reasonable prices and you'll make a ton of cash. Just snip 2 or 3 bucks off a dish. Also, you MUST have happy hours, specials on wine and beer. This is sound advice, heed or be gone soon. Don't waste the really great interior and atmosphere. Word gets 'round quick in downtown.


But they DO have happy hours (apparently word does not get 'round that quick in downtown). The happy hour on Thursday lasts all night(!). They also have happy hour M-F with half price on all beer and wine, unlike most other places in JC that only have happy hour for a few selected wines and draft beer or no happy hour at all.

I agree that some of the food is over-priced (the lobster roll I had was a pathetic size. Come on, guys!) and some of it may need some tuning. The Chicken Bucheron I had was very good.

Overall it is a great addition to the area.

Posted on: 2010/5/27 23:45
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Re: Friends of Liberty State Park oppose Formula One Grand Prix in Jersey City
#44
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F1 (or specifically Bernie Ecclestone) has deep pockets. Bernie slipped Tony Blair's Labour Party 1 million pounds so that F1 could bypass the tobacco advertising ban in sport in the UK. So maybe we havent heard the end of this. It's a good job nobody on the City Council would ever take a bribe.

Blair got caught and had to hand back the million, but Bernie got to keep his advertising.

Posted on: 2010/5/6 1:15
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Re: Friends of Liberty State Park oppose Formula One Grand Prix in Jersey City
#45
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Quote:

DCofJC wrote:
Let's take a look here at successful locations of F1. They don't look like they ruin the World Class locations below! As a matter of fact JC doesn't belong in the same conversation as these cities....


No, it doesn't and that's why F1 will not come here.

Posted on: 2010/5/5 15:32
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Re: Friends of Liberty State Park oppose Formula One Grand Prix in Jersey City
#46
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Quote:

Vigilante wrote:
Quote:

Indomitus wrote:
There is no end to the foot in mouth disease afflicting our leaders. Its a park, NOT a racetrack. Huge, whopping difference. People who live downtown, you do not want to hear the noise that would emanate from a racetrack for endless hours. Really.


+1,000. I have worked on film shoots at Charlotte Motor Speedway. We were using only 3 or 4 cars on the track and the noise was unbelievable. Communication between crew members standing 3 feet apart was impossible without special headsets. Take this crap out to the boondocks where it belongs.


It's not just race day, there are endless lap tests by all the drivers to determine the grid position on the days leading up to the event.

Posted on: 2010/5/4 5:17
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
#47
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Quote:

umbro2914 wrote:

3.) Those who fail to understand the symbolism of the scuplture. The "stabbing in the back" is very often used phrase when describing Poland in World War II, because when WWII erupted, Poland was fighting Germany, from September 1, however on September 17, the Soviet Union invaded Poland from the east, unnanounced and unprovoked. Thus the Poles refer to the Soviet Invasion as a stabbing in the back. So that is why the POw is being bayonneted.


But the "stabbing in the back" does not just refer to Russia, it refers to the "Western Betrayal". Russia at the time had formed an alliance with Germany (Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact). France and Britain had agreements with Poland that they would come to the aid of Poland in the event it was attacked. When Poland was attacked by Germany, France and Britain declared war on Germany but did not take any significant action against Germany for some months. Meanwhile, the US did not want to get involved in a European war but aided Britain and France in re-arming. That period was known as the phony war. Later when the graves were discovered by the Nazis, the US and Britain tried to turn a blind eye and blamed the massacre on the Germans in order to keep the US-British-Soviet alliance intact. There was a deal at the Tehran conference between Roosevelt, Churchill and Stalin which shifted the Polish borders without the consent of the Poles. Finally at the Yalta conference neither Churchill nor Roosevelt opposed Stalin's demand to maintain occupation in Poland.

The statue does not depict a Russian soldier stabbing the Polish officer in the back, it does not show who is doing the stabbing.

I understand there are very strong feelings of anger and bitterness for the massacre and the actions of other countries. But to choose to create a memorial 50 years later that displays these feelings in such a graphic and permanent way does not give much hope for ultimate reconciliation and permanent peace.

Posted on: 2010/5/1 22:22
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
#48
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Quote:

neverleft wrote:

Hey sinik....

You know what? I think you are on to something!

I have never seen Christopher Columbus jogging down in Liberty State Park. (I may give him a pass on that just because he did wear those nasty painful looking shoes) Nor has he ever had his ship docked at the Liberty Marina.



1. I wonder how many statues to Columbus there are in Poland. Maybe they have no particular reason to have them.
2. I certainly would have little problem if the Katyn Memorial was in LSP although it is still ugly and has an in your face political message that is directed as much at ally as enemy.
If people don't know why this is, I suggest they acquaint themselves with the Katyn story and its aftermath and the nature of the western response in 1943 when the graves were discovered. I am sure there was plenty to criticize the US and UK for but is it the right place in a war memorial to the dead?
3. Columbus may never have set foot in America but he is a very significant figure in the history of America.
4. Does the Columbus statue have any particular political message?

Posted on: 2010/5/1 3:44
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
#49
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Quote:

neverleft wrote:
At the rate JC is changing I think someone needs to commission a statue that will represent the JC old-timers.

Maybe a bronze of an old man and woman with a shopping cart looking with delight into the window of a 99 cent store as they sip their 50 cent cup of coffee that they purchased from the local bodega. A fitting tribute indeed!

Hey all of you new-comers, hipsters, and yuppies you are the JC old-timers of tomorrow never forget that. Show some respect!


That would be far too relevant to JC and the people that live here. Better to pick something that happened in another place over 50 years before and has no connection to the vast majority of people living here.

Have you noticed that all the other Katyn memorials around the world (particularly the ones in Poland) are tasteful monuments that honor the memories of the people that were slaughtered without having to make political statements to people that could not have prevented what happened?

Here is a computer visualization of a new Katyn giant memorial to be built in Poland. It consists of 20,000+ figures of all of the victims, each with a name and a hole in its head (coz that's how they were killed, folks, not with bayonets). The video takes a while to get going but if you are patient at around two or three minutes in, you will see the Bayonne vagina.


http://video.google.pl/videoplay?doci ... 264069519938250476&hl=pl#

Posted on: 2010/4/30 1:03
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Re: Drivers Must Come to Full Stop at NJ Crosswalks
#50
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Quote:

GlitterQueen wrote:
use common sense and you most likely will not get hit by a car.

very reassuring

Quote:

I somehow jaywalk across 8th avenue in Manhattan every morning and don't get nailed by a car. it isn't because i only go when there are no cars.


People are better drivers in Manhattan because:

(a) they have to be
(b) they know there is more enforcement

Posted on: 2010/4/11 20:31
 Top 


Re: Drivers Must Come to Full Stop at NJ Crosswalks
#51
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Quote:

djh101 wrote:
Quote:
You guys have no clue. I have been 50% or more across the crosswalk (with the lights in my favor) and had drivers turn into the street I was crossing, without looking, causing me to take evasive action.


I don?t think anyone was absolving idiot drivers ---- but there are equally ample times when it?s a careless pedestrian. While yours may indeed have been the case of the former and not the latter, your individual experience is not the gold standard. It?s not always all about you.


Well when I am trying to recount what happened to me, it is pretty much all about me.

Quote:

Quote:
Some of you people clearly dont walk much or you would have experienced something similar yourselves.


Yes, you nailed it ---- almost fifteen years in this city, and I rarely walk anywhere! Friggin' moron.


Here 'much' means 'a lot'. I recently got rid of my car so now I walk everywhere in JC. That's what I would call 'much' or 'a lot'. I didn't say you rarely walk anywhere, did I? I am sure you walk less than me and maybe a lot less than me

Quote:

Quote:
Most drivers are not driving at 25mph.


That?s absolutely correct ---- and if you take the time to re-read my words carefully, you will see that I specifically phrased it as ?EVEN AT 25mph which is the limit for most of these streets? --- I wrote that realizing that most don?t honor it; also as a subtle reminder for such drivers who may be on this blog; and also to affirm that one cannot stop on a dime even at that speed limit when a pedestrian jumps out last minute ----- your flawless adherence to pedestrian rules notwithstanding.


There's absolutely no admission in what you originally wrote that most drivers are not keeping to the speed limit. I do thank you for conceding the point now, though.

I hope you drive less angry than you blog

Posted on: 2010/4/2 4:20
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Re: Drivers Must Come to Full Stop at NJ Crosswalks
#52
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Quote:

djh101 wrote:
Quote:
The pedestrians are as bad as the drivers here.


My friend Dirt McGirt is absolutely correct with this statement.



You guys have no clue. I have been 50% or more across the crosswalk (with the lights in my favor) and had drivers turn into the street I was crossing, without looking, causing me to take evasive action.

One guy even stopped and came at me again, obviously thinking that I should back up and let him pass in front of me. It was in a clearly marked crosswalk. The guy was turning out of another street where there was a stop sign. There were no parked cars obscuring his view.

Unfortunately these are regular occurrences. Some of you people clearly dont walk much or you would have experienced something similar yourselves.

Quote:

Drivers can?t always stop on a dime when that happens ?last minute? --- even at 25MPH which is the limit for most of these streets.


Most drivers are not driving at 25mph. On Jersey or Marin (where it is clearly posted), they are driving considerably faster. In the case of Marin at 8th and 9th most of the drivers are hitting 50mph.

Posted on: 2010/4/2 1:43
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Re: Hoboken Barnes & Noble announces March 31 closing
#53
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Quote:

Farfromit wrote:



And the iPad will not replace the Kindle at all. The iPad, iPhone, or any type of laptop uses normal backlit computer displays which will tire your eyes when reading for any length of time.



Most of us use computer displays all day long without noticeable probs.

I didnt say the iPad will replace the Kindle. I said the Kindle would lose business to the iPad. In fact it's already happened because people have postponed buying Kindle while they waited for this announcement.

People who do not already own a Kindle and are thinking of getting an iPad will not buy a Kindle as well.

Posted on: 2010/1/28 19:31
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Re: Hoboken Barnes & Noble announces March 31 closing
#54
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Quote:

CapnJon wrote:
farfromit - i understand people's excitement in book reading gadgets... but my arguement with folks is that, why, after staring at a computer monitor for 16 hours a day for work, would i want to read a book on a computer monitor as well?

no thanks! give me a smelly old used book, or a crisp smelly new book... and i'm much happier!


since I am able to read books on my iPhone, I am now reading a lot more. Very convenient and comfortable either through a free app like Stanza. Stanza lets you download many of the classics for free from Gutenberg and many individual books are available as free apps.

No way I would buy a real book that is available like this (or buy a Kindle for that matter).

Posted on: 2010/1/28 16:16
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Re: Hoboken Barnes & Noble announces March 31 closing
#55
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Quote:

Farfromit wrote:
Who buys books anymore?

The Kindle is the way to go



The Kindle will lose a lot of business to the iPad.

Kindles are way over-priced

Posted on: 2010/1/28 16:00
 Top 


Re: path/subway searches
#56
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Quote:

ianmac47 wrote:
Oh, yes, because a guy who has dedicated months training and planning, spent hundreds if not thousands of dollars obtaining supplies, and who believes God's destiny for him is killing infidels is probably stupid enough to consent to a random bag search and get himself caught before executing his plan for mass murder. Because a guy dedicating his life to blowing something up wouldn't just pull the trigger right then and there, and he certainly wouldn't just try again the next day. Absolutely. I see your point.

Or maybe the real problem is people like continually underestimating the resourcefulness, intelligence, and determination of these zealots.


I wouldnt say that the Shoe Bomber or the Underwear Bomber showed even average amounts of resourcefulness, intelligence or competence, which is very fortunate for us. The Underwear Bomber did not check luggage which should have really tipped off security for extra screening if they were following post 9/11 procedures (Remember that you said earlier you would 'absolutely' like to go back to pre-9/11 levels of security. In his case because procedures were not followed, we effectively had pre-9/11 security and he was nearly successful).

In the case of the Shoe Bomber he did, just as you said, return the next day after he was initially turned away by security to try to fly again the next day. The extra day is thought to be why the explosives did not detonate.

Posted on: 2010/1/23 12:59
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Re: path/subway searches
#57
Home away from home
Home away from home


Quote:

ianmac47 wrote:

I'm sure if everyone would be a lot safer if Ryder Rental trucks had bag searches as a requirement to rent a truck, although searching the bags of airplane passengers didn't really stop 9/11.


Do you think it's easier or harder to get a box cutter on a plane as a result of changes since 9/11? Would you prefer to going back to the level of security before 9/11?

Posted on: 2010/1/22 16:07
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Re: path/subway searches
#58
Home away from home
Home away from home


Quote:

JCorNYC wrote:
I really don't get what the big deal is. How hard is it to comply with the searches? I say better safe than sorry. I got searched even when they saw my work badge or carrying a small bag where explosives won't fit I still complied with the Police when they asks to search my bag.

I would be weary if one refused a search and they're taking the same train and station with me.

It only takes seconds folks! I've been through the 1993 WTC Bombing and 9/11. I'll be damned if some people in our midst will try to take us down again by refusing to be searched.


+googol

Of course how could you know if you were traveling with someone who had refused a search at another station?

Maybe someone should start a website where people can post pictures of people who refuse to take the search (like they do for the food pigs).

Posted on: 2010/1/22 14:59
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Re: path/subway searches
#59
Home away from home
Home away from home


Quote:
ThirdRail wrote: Quote:
heights wrote: Quote:
ThirdRail wrote: Quote:
I_heart_JC wrote: and you win....how?
by keeping my freedom and proving it doesn't work. I was laughing at how I was told "if you refuse the search, you will not be allowed to travel on the PATH today." Well I travelled on the PATH twice that day. What would stop someone with a bomb from doing the same thing I did? Just go to another station and get on the train. It's a system that doesn't work. How many terrorists have these bag searches caught?
It's better with some search then no search at all. What about the safety of all the employees on the train system ? You are a guest on their train when you are a guest in someone's home you should abide by their rules, similar to a dress code at an establishment. Even when you "pay" a cover charge you get searched before entering and leave when told to or at closing which ever comes first. It's better with some search then no search at all.
then the policy should be to search everyone and not at random, like at an airport.
So if you go to the airport, do you submit to the search, or do you just never go to the airport? If you do submit to the search at the airport, how are you "keeping your freedom" and who is winning then?

Posted on: 2010/1/22 14:40
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Re: Downtown JC Churches - Reviews
#60
Home away from home
Home away from home


Quote:

PubliusIII wrote:


And yes, there is default rejection of dogma today. Is everyone going to become a Buddhist fashioned according to his own agenda? And for those who think this is something new, consider Dorothy Sayers writing in the 1940s:


It is worse than useless for Christians to talk about the importance of Christian morality unless they are prepared to take their stand upon the fundamentals of Christian theology. It is a lie to say that dogma does not matter; it matters enormously.

-Dorothy Sayers in ?Creed or Chaos??



Christian morality did not seem to matter so enormously to Dorothy L Sayers to prevent her from having sex outside marriage, becoming pregnant and then using subterfuge to give the child away anonymously so she could continue her writing career.

There are some that argue she was also anti-semitic. That may not be entirely germane to the discussion but perhaps it, along with her apparently blatant hypocrisy, should be part of the lens through which we view her writings.

Posted on: 2009/12/4 1:52
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