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Re: Mayor Fulop Advancing as Leader in Green Technology
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If someone here has lots of free time, you could breakout payrolls by zip code:

https://www.census.gov/data/developers ... p-nonemp-zbp/zbp-api.html


Doing so, you could estimate total state income and payroll taxes vs. total state aid / spending.

I am sure there is a record for sales taxes as well.

Posted on: 7/19 15:42
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Re: Mayor Fulop Advancing as Leader in Green Technology
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tern wrote:
> Here is a concept, why not have the state fund 100% of
> school costs through an increase in the income and/or sales
> tax and remove it completely from property taxes. The
> quality of a child's education should not depend on the
> property values within their zip code.

Give that (wo)man a medal!

Robin.


JC spends 25% more per student than the state average, and has some of the worst schools in the entire state. Funding largesse obvious the issue. Somehow I’d guess there is a lot more waste, corruption, graft, nepotism, etc in JC than Princeton. Maybe address the waste first?

Posted on: 7/19 1:13
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Re: Mayor Fulop Advancing as Leader in Green Technology
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> Here is a concept, why not have the state fund 100% of
> school costs through an increase in the income and/or sales
> tax and remove it completely from property taxes. The
> quality of a child's education should not depend on the
> property values within their zip code.

Give that (wo)man a medal!

Robin.

Posted on: 7/18 18:02
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Re: Mayor Fulop Advancing as Leader in Green Technology
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How about the state give each child X of state support, and if local towns want to exceed that they could tax the local residents more to support it?

Posted on: 7/18 3:17
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Re: Mayor Fulop Advancing as Leader in Green Technology
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JPhurst wrote:
No property tax or other local tax levy from those places go to Jersey City.

The funding comes from the state, which raises it primarily through the income tax.

And most state taxes are paid based on where the income is generated, not where the earner resides. Again, the resident of, say, Maplewood, says "why are my taxes going to Jersey City?" But if that resident is working in New York City, their taxes aren't going to Jersey City, because they're not paying income tax to the state at all (maybe some on passive investment income).

If they are paying to New Jersey, it's because they work or run their business, or collect their rents, in New Jersey. Now maybe our Maplewood resident does this all in Maplewood. But they may also earn it in Hoboken, or Trenton, or Jersey City, depending on where they work and do business, collect their rents, etc.

Similarly, a NY or PA resident (or any other out of state resident)that works in NJ pays income taxes that go to NJ. So do they have a right to complain that their money is going to schools in New Jersey?


I would love to see the numbers on where the income taxes are generated. Which countries generate the most income taxes per capita?

Essentially your premise is that suburban areas do not subsidize Jersey City schools since siginficant income taxes generated in Jersey City is collected by the state and distributed back to the school boards. With JCBOE hisotircally getting one of the largest slices of the pie.

Yet, it still seems unfair to some communities that pay high property taxes to fund their schools and generage tons of economic opportunity that rdsult in high property taxes. Surely out of the hundreds of municipalities in New Jersey that are some out there getting a raw deal.

Here is a concept, why not have the state fund 100% of school costs through an increase in the income and/or sales tax and remove it completly from property taxes. The quality of a child's education should not depend on the property values within their zip code.

Posted on: 7/17 22:45
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Re: Mayor Fulop Advancing as Leader in Green Technology
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No property tax or other local tax levy from those places go to Jersey City.

The funding comes from the state, which raises it primarily through the income tax.

And most state taxes are paid based on where the income is generated, not where the earner resides. Again, the resident of, say, Maplewood, says "why are my taxes going to Jersey City?" But if that resident is working in New York City, their taxes aren't going to Jersey City, because they're not paying income tax to the state at all (maybe some on passive investment income).

If they are paying to New Jersey, it's because they work or run their business, or collect their rents, in New Jersey. Now maybe our Maplewood resident does this all in Maplewood. But they may also earn it in Hoboken, or Trenton, or Jersey City, depending on where they work and do business, collect their rents, etc.

Similarly, a NY or PA resident (or any other out of state resident)that works in NJ pays income taxes that go to NJ. So do they have a right to complain that their money is going to schools in New Jersey?

Posted on: 7/17 22:15
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Re: Mayor Fulop Advancing as Leader in Green Technology
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JCGuys wrote:
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JPhurst wrote:
This is broader data but it demonstrates where the wealth is generated. Cities.

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-cit ... -biggest-economies-2017-9


If wealth is generated in Jersey City, how come the suburban and rural parts of the state subsidize Jersey City schools? It's like reverse Robinhood. Steal from the poor to give to the rich!


NJ’s two biggest cities combined to suck up over 1.3 Billion in the last recorded school year. Go back over ten years (when they were getting more!) and it’s probably 15 billion. If the cities were such drivers why s that. And JC has the nerve to add a payroll tax (exempting JC residents!).

Posted on: 7/17 22:15
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Re: Mayor Fulop Advancing as Leader in Green Technology
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JPhurst wrote:
This is broader data but it demonstrates where the wealth is generated. Cities.

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-cit ... -biggest-economies-2017-9


If wealth is generated in Jersey City, how come the suburban and rural parts of the state subsidize Jersey City schools? It's like reverse Robinhood. Steal from the poor to give to the rich!

Posted on: 7/17 20:46
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Re: Mayor Fulop Advancing as Leader in Green Technology
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JPhurst wrote:
This is broader data but it demonstrates where the wealth is generated. Cities.

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-cit ... -biggest-economies-2017-9


Tying JC to NYC as a example is absurd on about a zillion levels, lol. That would be like comparing the Hudson Mall to Short Hills.

Posted on: 7/17 18:17
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Re: Mayor Fulop Advancing as Leader in Green Technology
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This is broader data but it demonstrates where the wealth is generated. Cities.

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-cit ... -biggest-economies-2017-9

Posted on: 7/17 18:09
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Re: Mayor Fulop Advancing as Leader in Green Technology
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Please show us data, like I provide you. The graduated state income tax, costs the higher earning NJ taxpayers much more. And the wealthier NJ residents who work in NYC (less and less each year) also pay state income tax on other revenue they earn outside of salary. But show some numbers rather than an opinion not supported by the facts.

Posted on: 7/17 17:09
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Re: Mayor Fulop Advancing as Leader in Green Technology
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And that is largely irrelevant.

State income tax is mostly sourced based on where the income is earned, not the residence of the taxpayer. I say "mostly" because there is some income, such as passive investment income, that is sourced to the domicile of the earner.

So when the resident of South Orange says "why are MY TAXES going to Jersey City schools," that really depends on where they are earning their income. If that resident commutes to a job in NYC, those taxes aren't going to Jersey City schools, because that resident pays no income taxes to NJ on their job income at all. It goes to New York.

The income taxes from jobs in Jersey City go to the State of New Jersey. That's true whether the earner lives in Jersey City, commutes from a suburb, or commutes from out of state.

Similarly, the income earned from a businesses profits is sourced based on where the business operates. Issues like nexus and allocation are a bit more complicated for business profits than they are for job income, but a business with workers, a storefront, or an office is going to pay taxes where those people and things are located, not where the owner sleeps at night.

So cities like Jersey City do indeed generate most of the state's revenue. The jobs are here, the businesses are here, the buildings where tenants pay rent are here. This is true regardless of the average income of the resident in Jersey City.

This just gets into the direct sourcing and generation of income. We haven't even touched the economic effect of consumer purchasing, the infrastructure strain cities are subjected to so that businesses may operate, and other indirect circumstances that result in the creation of wealth and revenue.

Posted on: 7/17 12:36
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Re: Mayor Fulop Advancing as Leader in Green Technology
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Monroe wrote:
Another proofless claim. Back it up. Big NJ cities have much lower incomes by residents, and pay state income at much lower rates than suburban residents.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_New_Jersey#Income_tax


Family incomes for Newark and JC are in the mid $30,000 and $58,000.

Posted on: 7/17 2:27
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Re: Mayor Fulop Advancing as Leader in Green Technology
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Another proofless claim. Back it up. Big NJ cities have much lower incomes by residents, and pay state income at much lower rates than suburban residents.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_New_Jersey#Income_tax

Posted on: 7/17 1:54
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Re: Mayor Fulop Advancing as Leader in Green Technology
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JCGuys wrote:
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JPhurst wrote:
Not just sales tax but income tax from jobs in the city.


The State of New Jersey does not collect any income taxes on Jersey City residents that work in New York. New York State collects the income tax since the income was generated in New York...


Exactly.

And the jobs are here.

Lots of the people saying "Why are my tax dollars going to Jersey City's schools" don't even pay income tax, or pay minimal income tax, to New Jersey. They commute into NYC and pay taxes to NYS and NYC.

For income taxes sourced to New Jersey, the cities are the main site for such sourcing.

Posted on: 7/17 1:38
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Re: Mayor Fulop Advancing as Leader in Green Technology
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tern wrote:
Taxes are designed to reallocate resources from rich areas to poor, that is one of their main purposes!

To highlight this redistribution and say it indicates a problem, is backwards, that is what taxes do!


Robin.


Jersey City and Hoboken are the rich areas. Trenton, Camden are the poorer areas.

Check the census data.

Posted on: 7/17 0:21
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Re: Mayor Fulop Advancing as Leader in Green Technology
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JPhurst wrote:
Not just sales tax but income tax from jobs in the city.


The State of New Jersey does not collect any income taxes on Jersey City residents that work in New York. New York State collects the income tax since the income was generated in New York...

Posted on: 7/17 0:18
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Re: Mayor Fulop Advancing as Leader in Green Technology
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Taxes are designed to reallocate resources from rich areas to poor, that is one of their main purposes!

To highlight this redistribution and say it indicates a problem, is backwards, that is what taxes do!


Robin.

Posted on: 7/17 0:09
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Re: Mayor Fulop Advancing as Leader in Green Technology
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HeightsNative wrote:
I think we found our winner for moron of the year. This is easily the dumbest comment on this site (a low bar), and shows a general lack of understanding for how things work, and for much JC has leeched off the state already at a net negative for the state.

This is comic gold.



Just because you don't know how economies work, and how tax revenue is generated, doesn't mean you need to be a snarky and ignorant prick.

Posted on: 7/16 23:41
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Re: Mayor Fulop Advancing as Leader in Green Technology
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Monroe wrote:
Thinking it so doesn’t make so. Please provide hard numbers, as I did.

The Short Hills Mall, one of the highest sales per square foot malls in the country-Newport isn’t even in the top ten in the state. Wanna bet who send more sales tax cash to Trenton. All 8 NJ billionaires don’t earn their living in JC. Tiny Short Hills has 3, paying the states highest RE taxes, while paying for your schools. Appooloza Fund, which was next door to the SH Mall, was sending hundreds of millions in taxes to NJ-so much that the billionaire owner moved it to Florida.

So let’s see your numbers!


How much in state income tax is generated by jobs in Alpine, NJ. NOT where residents go to work. How much is generate in Alpine. Or Upper Saddle River.

Show me your numbers!

Posted on: 7/16 23:37
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Re: Mayor Fulop Advancing as Leader in Green Technology
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"Leeched off the state"

Cities generate revenue and run the state's economy. Very simple.

Posted on: 7/16 23:36
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Re: Mayor Fulop Advancing as Leader in Green Technology
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There is a lot of hype on green energy. It is the reason why Michael Moore move was banned. It takes 32 acres to create energy for 1,000. Basically all of the wild life would have to disappear. https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/blo ... f-solar-power-panels.html

Posted on: 7/16 20:55
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Re: Mayor Fulop Advancing as Leader in Green Technology
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I think we found our winner for moron of the year. This is easily the dumbest comment on this site (a low bar), and shows a general lack of understanding for how things work, and for much JC has leeched off the state already at a net negative for the state.

This is comic gold.

Quote:

JPhurst wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

JPhurst wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

JCGuys wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
JC school taxes are incredibly low.


And they will go sky high.


Since JC taxpayers pay less than 20% of its own school costs it has a lot of head room to pay its own fair share.


Then let the state pay for our police, fire, and health infrastructure.
. And why should NJ taxpayers do that?


Because Jersey City and other cities generate most of the tax revenue for the state.

Posted on: 7/16 20:52
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Re: Mayor Fulop Advancing as Leader in Green Technology
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Thinking it so doesn’t make so. Please provide hard numbers, as I did.

The Short Hills Mall, one of the highest sales per square foot malls in the country-Newport isn’t even in the top ten in the state. Wanna bet who send more sales tax cash to Trenton. All 8 NJ billionaires don’t earn their living in JC. Tiny Short Hills has 3, paying the states highest RE taxes, while paying for your schools. Appooloza Fund, which was next door to the SH Mall, was sending hundreds of millions in taxes to NJ-so much that the billionaire owner moved it to Florida.

So let’s see your numbers!

Posted on: 7/16 20:52

Edited by Monroe on 2020/7/16 21:11:23
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Re: Mayor Fulop Advancing as Leader in Green Technology
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Not just sales tax but income tax from jobs in the city.

And the city also has the vital infrastructure to keep the economy moving and growing.

Cities generate the economic activity that raises revenue, suburbanites take lots of that money home with them but get upset when some of it comes back to keep the cities functioning.

Abbott rectified that, then SFRA took it back. Sort of an "All Lives Matter" moment but for students.

Posted on: 7/16 20:35
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Re: Mayor Fulop Advancing as Leader in Green Technology
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Monroe wrote:
Care to share where we can verify that? Not from sales tax, the only two malls collect half the state rate.


And in the last year listed by the state the two largest NJ cities, Newark and JC received a combined 1.338 BILLION in state school funding, siphoned from suburban taxpayers. One year!

Posted on: 7/16 19:01
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Re: Mayor Fulop Advancing as Leader in Green Technology
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Care to share where we can verify that? Not from sales tax, the only two malls collect half the state rate.

Posted on: 7/16 18:27

Edited by Monroe on 2020/7/16 18:42:49
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Re: Mayor Fulop Advancing as Leader in Green Technology
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Monroe wrote:
Quote:

JPhurst wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

JCGuys wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
JC school taxes are incredibly low.


And they will go sky high.


Since JC taxpayers pay less than 20% of its own school costs it has a lot of head room to pay its own fair share.


Then let the state pay for our police, fire, and health infrastructure.
. And why should NJ taxpayers do that?


Because Jersey City and other cities generate most of the tax revenue for the state.

Posted on: 7/16 14:39
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Re: Mayor Fulop Advancing as Leader in Green Technology
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JPhurst wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

JCGuys wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
JC school taxes are incredibly low.


And they will go sky high.


Since JC taxpayers pay less than 20% of its own school costs it has a lot of head room to pay its own fair share.


Then let the state pay for our police, fire, and health infrastructure.
. And why should NJ taxpayers do that?

Posted on: 7/14 23:25
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Re: Mayor Fulop Advancing as Leader in Green Technology
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Monroe wrote:
Quote:

JCGuys wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
JC school taxes are incredibly low.


And they will go sky high.


Since JC taxpayers pay less than 20% of its own school costs it has a lot of head room to pay its own fair share.


Then let the state pay for our police, fire, and health infrastructure.

Posted on: 7/14 19:51
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