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Re: Embankment park is coming
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Get over yourself, nicky, regardless of the outcome, you still approve of the city lying to get land. You still approve of the ordinance saying it will be a rail spur and not a park. During the ordinance, city officials admitted there will be no Green Acres funding because the state does not grant money to rail spurs.

Posted on: 10/28 21:17
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Re: Embankment park is coming
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DouglasReynholm wrote:
In the end, the city had to find a buyer who will build two enormous towers in an already high density district to gift them the rest of the land to build the park. Am I wrong? This widow must be exhausted and happy to sell this land and settle this case. Once husband dead, she was like, settle and sell I want my money!


This seems like a win-win for all parties involved.
- The city pays nothing to acquire the land, sparing the city budget.
- The developer still gets to build something, two towers in already very high density part of Downtown, which will not be abated and will pay full taxes.
- The city gets to exit endless litigation and focus on building a new park which will also attract more visitors and tourists into JC to spend $.

Of course none of this will satisfy Yvonne and her NIMBY minions and they are likely to hold up for another 15 years with frivolous lawsuits of their own.

Posted on: 10/28 21:06
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Re: Embankment park is coming
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In the end, the city had to find a buyer who will build two enormous towers in an already high density district to gift them the rest of the land to build the park. Am I wrong? This widow must be exhausted and happy to sell this land and settle this case. Once husband dead, she was like, settle and sell I want my money!

Posted on: 10/28 17:00
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Re: Embankment park is coming
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val7101 wrote:
This is a little confusing. Did the law requiring Conrail to give first rights to Jersey City only become law AFTER the dispute had started? I don't know if I'm reading this correctly. If so it seems like the wife bought the land fair and square and then the city got Corzine to pass a Hail Mary bill. I'm sure there's more to this.


Whether the city gets first rights or not, Conrail didn't have the right to sell it to a non-railroad entity without first going through the STB abandonment process.

Posted on: 10/24 22:38
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Re: Embankment park is coming
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Bike_Lane wrote:
The heart of the legal dispute was whether Conrail had the right to sell the Embankment to the developer without the intent to have it remain a railroad.

The Surface Transportation Board (STB) must rule on abandonment of rail lines (this responsibility is handed down from the predecessor agency, the Interstate Commerce Commission). In this case "abandonment" does not mean trains haven't run on the line for x years, it means that the rail line would change to another use, and thus, cease to be a right of way for rail transportation (aside, some rail lines are not subject to STB rulings, such as New Jersey Transit owned rail lines).

Conrail's assets are subject to the STB, and therefore Conrail was/is required to apply for an STB ruling when abandoning a rail line. Here's an overview of the process: https://www.stb.gov/stb/public/resources_abandonment.html

Had the STB approved the abandonment ahead of time, Conrail could have offered it to the city or sold it to the developer free and clear. That didn't happen, and therefore, the long legal battle ensued.

Other former rail lines downtown, such as the 10th Street Embankment, went through the legal abandonment process before ownership was transferred.



This is a little confusing. Did the law requiring Conrail to give first rights to Jersey City only become law AFTER the dispute had started? I don't know if I'm reading this correctly. If so it seems like the wife bought the land fair and square and then the city got Corzine to pass a Hail Mary bill. I'm sure there's more to this.



N.J. law could help settle Jersey City embankment lawsuit
By Melissa Hayes/The Jersey Journal
January 19, 2010, 5:37PM

A law signed in Gov. Jon S. Corzine’s final hours in office could be the push Jersey City needs to settle a seven-year land dispute. The law, signed Monday, could potentially impact the city’s negotiations with developer Steve Hyman, whose wife purchased a parcel of land called the Sixth Street Embankment from Conrail in 2005 for $3 million.

The law, sponsored by former Assemblyman L. Harvey Smith, D-Jersey City, Assemblywoman Joan Quigley, D-Jersey City, Sen. Nicholas Sacco, D-North Bergen, and Sen. Brian Stack, D-Union City, requires railroad companies to negotiate in good faith with municipalities before abandoning a property. Jersey City has argued that Conrail did not do that when it sold the land to Hyman.

“We think this is good legislation,” Jersey City Mayor Jerramiah T. Healy said in a statement. “The railroads obtained these right of ways and these properties a long time ago for nothing or next to nothing and we think it is apropos that the various governing bodies have the first crack at obtaining these right of ways with an eye toward enhancing mass transportation whether it be by light rail or some other mode.”

At issue is a 6.5-acre elevated parcel of land on Sixth Street between Marin Boulevard and Brunswick Street. Hyman wants to build housing on the site, but the city wants to see a portion preserved as open space and the rest become part of the Light Rail corridor.

Healy said as the site could serve as a conduit for the Light Rail, with passengers coming in from the Frank R. Lautenberg Rail Station at Secaucus Junction, through a four-mile stretch of rail track in the Palisades called Bergen Arches. He said riders could get off in Journal Square or continue to the Pavonia PATH station and downtown. "This has the potential to keep thousands of cars off our roads in the morning and afternoon rush hours,” Healy said.

The city filed a lawsuit in 2006 arguing that under federal law Conrail should have offered the site to the city before selling it to Hyman. In 2007, the federal Surface Transportation Board, which has jurisdiction over rail sites, agreed with the city. But Hyman took the case to the U.S. Court of Appeals, which threw out the board's decision in June, saying it didn't have jurisdiction to hear the case. The city and Embankment Preservation Coalition have asked the appellate court to reconsider its decision.

In the meantime, Jersey City Council moved in November to hire former Supreme Court Chief Justice James Zazzali to mediate the disagreement and both sides are working to reach a settlement.

Posted on: 10/24 20:50
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Re: Embankment park is coming
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Thank you for the info. All this time I thought people didn't want to touch it because it was historic.

Posted on: 10/24 20:14
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Re: Embankment park is coming
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The heart of the legal dispute was whether Conrail had the right to sell the Embankment to the developer without the intent to have it remain a railroad.

The Surface Transportation Board (STB) must rule on abandonment of rail lines (this responsibility is handed down from the predecessor agency, the Interstate Commerce Commission). In this case "abandonment" does not mean trains haven't run on the line for x years, it means that the rail line would change to another use, and thus, cease to be a right of way for rail transportation (aside, some rail lines are not subject to STB rulings, such as New Jersey Transit owned rail lines).

Conrail's assets are subject to the STB, and therefore Conrail was/is required to apply for an STB ruling when abandoning a rail line. Here's an overview of the process: https://www.stb.gov/stb/public/resources_abandonment.html

Had the STB approved the abandonment ahead of time, Conrail could have offered it to the city or sold it to the developer free and clear. That didn't happen, and therefore, the long legal battle ensued.

Other former rail lines downtown, such as the 10th Street Embankment, went through the legal abandonment process before ownership was transferred.

Posted on: 10/24 17:34
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Re: Embankment park is coming
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I suggest people look at old maps of JC land where the railroad went. It was all over downtown. Newport and other areas was rail land, no one said anything on how that property was transferred. 6th Street became an issue when people realize affordable housing was going there. Typical hypocrisy.

Posted on: 10/24 16:59
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Re: Embankment park is coming
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JCBORN wrote:
So an investor bought the property only to spend thousands of dollars in court for the last 15 years then give it up to the City? He didn’t get anything in return? That is unbelievable.

Does that mean if a developer spends millions on a piece property downtown today with plans to build there he/she is at risk of the city taking it away because they changed their mind?

I do like the park idea but I don't think the developer should end up with nothing in return.


The developer in question actually died and his estate had no appetite to keep the fight going, so I assume they came to an agreement with the city. Nothing was forcefully taken as Yvonne keeps yammering about.

Posted on: 10/24 14:41
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Re: Embankment park is coming
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So an investor bought the property only to spend thousands of dollars in court for the last 15 years then give it up to the City? He didn’t get anything in return? That is unbelievable.

Does that mean if a developer spends millions on a piece property downtown today with plans to build there he/she is at risk of the city taking it away because they changed their mind?

I do like the park idea but I don't think the developer should end up with nothing in return.

Posted on: 10/24 14:31
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Re: Embankment park is coming
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So I guess you root for the thief and all the bad guys when you go the movies, nicky, it doesn't bother you when government is underhanded. But is the background of the Embankment, former mayor Schundler wanted that property to go to a developer to create affordable housing. I am not a fan of affordable housing because it does not pay full taxes, which is a separate issue of being against low income people. Hoboken does affordable well, by requiring many new building to have a portion affordable while the building pays full taxes. The neighborhood group got together to save the Embankment once they realize these plans. That tidbit of facts was lost.

Posted on: 10/24 1:55
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Re: Embankment park is coming
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Yvonne wrote:
Instead of taking someone's property, the city could have traded property. Fulop gave 16 acres in Liberty State Park and the city also owns acres in Bayfront. I personally finds it appalling that people do think this is OK. Communist countries do this, not a democratic country.


Yvonne is going into snowflake mode and is having a meltdown because she has been handed yet another humiliating loss. The queen of the NIMBYs who opposes virtually any and all development wanted this to become condos instead of something all people can enjoy simply because it contradicted the administration position. Never mind this has been going on for decades under prior administrations she previously supported simply because she has influence back then.

Poor Yvonne, her dream of Newark Avenue turning back into a highway full of double parked cars and dollar stores will be permanently destroyed when the space is overhauled this December, bike lanes aren’t going anywhere and now she has to content with a park.

Posted on: 10/23 23:55
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Re: Embankment park is coming
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Instead of taking someone's property, the city could have traded property. Fulop gave 16 acres in Liberty State Park and the city also owns acres in Bayfront. I personally finds it appalling that people do think this is OK. Communist countries do this, not a democratic country.

Posted on: 10/23 21:05
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Re: Embankment park is coming
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dr_nick_riviera wrote:
https://twitter.com/stevenfulop/status/1186454926735675394?s=21

Cue Yvonne and all the haters. This will be wonderful for Downtown.


Yes. I agree. In 15 years that this will take to come fruition it will be great for downtown residents.

Posted on: 10/23 14:13
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Re: Embankment park is coming
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According to the city ordinance, the 6th Street Embankment was voted on as a rail spur, not a park. There is no "green acres" money or state funding for a rail spur. This also means the city lied to get someone's property so no property owner is actually safe; if you lie to grab someone property, the city can lie again to grab your property.

Posted on: 10/22 15:23
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Re: Embankment park is coming
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Posted on: 10/22 14:52
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Embankment park is coming
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https://twitter.com/stevenfulop/status/1186454926735675394?s=21

Cue Yvonne and all the haters. This will be wonderful for Downtown.

Posted on: 10/22 3:06
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