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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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K-Lo2 wrote:
The PROBLEM is that the church has been covering it up for decades. The PROBLEM is that the church cares more about the abusers than the abused.


Amen.

If we take Mao's claim on its face, we would all be okay with priests pursuing 14 and 15 year old girls because it would be neither pedophelia nor homosexual. That's insane - and we have laws that prevent that.

It's not an orientation issue - the church may wish to frame it that way, knowing the Yvonne's of the world will eat that shit up and not depart the flock, but that doesn't make it true.

Posted on: 8/31 9:48
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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The late Fr. Richard Neuhaus said this is a homosexual problem.


I don't know why I should care about this man's views. And I really don't care how it's characterized. The PROBLEM is that the church has been covering it up for decades. The PROBLEM is that the church cares more about the abusers than the abused.

Posted on: 8/31 9:14
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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Yvonne your lack of critical thinking evident again.

The abusers are perpetrators not because they are homosexual, but because they have a complete lack of boundaries, are psychologically ill, and are deeply morally flawed. That description could apply to gay, straight, bi, poly, whatever.

People don’t go around calling the issue of say serial killers a “heterosexual” problem even though the majority of cases are, or the issue of older men forcing underage girls into polygomy on compounds in Utah a “heterosexual issue” either. I know plenty, in fact the majority, of straight males are not serial killers or polygamous cult leaders.

You and Mao labeling it a gay issue puts the focus on something that is not the causation of this Catholic Church problem.
i myself am a straight woman who finds your attempts to demonize gay men not only offensive, but your lack of critical thinking is irritating too

Posted on: 8/31 9:12
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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Posted on: 8/31 8:29
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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The late Fr. Richard Neuhaus said this is a homosexual problem. And according to the FBI who created the John Jay report, 85% of the victims were males, basically teenage boys, not young children. Add to the fact the CDC who keeps track of who gets HIV, the largest group is 13 to 24 year old. But here is my question, why is a 13 year getting HIV? They are being molested by adult gay men. This is nothing but deflection to say, that females are victims. Yes, they are but in much smaller numbers. According to the seminarians who transferred to other places or left, ther is a real gay sub-culture who are active sexually. I am hoping for a thorough investigation. But I also want an investigation of what former child actor Corey Feldman said. The same thing is happening in Hollywood with young male teen actors.

Posted on: 8/31 6:59
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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Not sure why so many people are sensitive about discussing grown gay man / teen boy sex seduction stories in the priesthood... Hollywood just celebrated this activity with last year's "Call Me By Your Name", nominating it with best picture, plus other minor awards. The irony was this film flying quietly below the radar while the fallout from Harvey "Winestain" sex assaults on young teen woman actresses was raging. A priest or research assistant? One person's grooming is another's sex assualt. The pool/bathing suit picture of McCarrick with his hand around the waist of his teenage boy victim was creepy. That was not a Pedo Thing. And it would have been just as creepy with a teenage girl.

Posted on: 8/31 6:21
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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Mao - did your typically long-winded post just basically blame the Catholic Church child abuse crisis on homosexuality/homosexuals?

I would argue that sick individuals who prey on the weak and abuse their power and cross extreme boundaries do so because they suffer a personality disorder and exhibit a gross moral failing, not a result of their sexual orientation.

Yvonne is an easy mark for eye-rolling because her critical thinking seems so blatantly lacking and her rhetorical skills are not as outwardly honed as yours. However, people like yourself who embark on long-winded treatises merely serve to hide that underneath you really are as bigoted as Yvonne or as any uneducated redneck (not saying that all rednecks are uneducated or bigoted, but comparing you to ones who are) You just hide it better underneath your sophistry. You seem to piously proclaim ‘devoutness’ yet your postings suggest you probably voted for and hypocritically support Trump because he is furthering your right wing religious agenda.

Posted on: 8/30 23:47

Edited by esp123 on 2018/8/31 0:02:39
Edited by esp123 on 2018/8/31 0:11:54
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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Yvonne wrote:
I will tell you why I don't buy the term pedophilia, it is just to pigeon hole the sex abuse to one group. It is not. According to the John Jay report, 5% were under 10, the majority was teenage boys. If that is pedophilia then the late Harvey Milk practiced pedophilia because he teen lover was 16 years old. Several months ago, I read about a man who left prison and burglarized a home. He end up raping the homeowner, a female of 84 years. He was going to rape someone female and the age did not matter. I am sure if the victim was 12 female, the press would have labeled him pedophilia, too.
Yvonne seriously what the F*CK is wrong with you. This is low, even for you.

You, and Mao, and Monroe. Jesus Christ the absolute drivel coming from you all. Blaming all of this on gay people instead of just accepting that the Catholic Church from top to bottom is full of pedophiles and sexual abusers and everyone in the Church is covering it up. Coming up with excuses for why they're not really pedophiles. "Whatabout Hollywood" yeah Monroe what about it it's messed up too, nobody is defending this garbage except our resident conservatives. The party of Roy Moore and Donald Trump and other pedophiles. You're all sick.

Posted on: 8/30 22:56
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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Yvonne wrote:
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JCman24 wrote:
It is insanely impressive how Yvonne is wrong about just everything in the world. Amazing.


I have been following this more closely than you, JC man24. McCarrick's problem has touched the Vatican is because he went after minors as well as adult men in the seminary. McCarrick would invite seminarians to his beach house where there was only one bedroom. Not all the seminarians took kindly to McCarrick, some transferred to other seminarians and now many of them are posting on Catholic websites. McCarrick's nickname was "Uncle Ted." Pope Benedict stripped McCarrick of all privileges and was basically under house arrest. Pope Francis restored his privileges. So the former Archbishop of Newark will probably bring down the present pope in the Vatican. Abp. Carlo Maria Viganò, the former nuncio to the United States said this Pope Francis knew about McCarrick because he told him.


The Catholic Church has a serious abuse problem regardless of how finely you want to slice and dice the semantics, and the current crisis is probably going to bring up some serious world order-level changes like we haven't seen in centuries. It's going to be hilarious.


Hilarious indeed. The significant sexual abuse going on within the priesthood has been pretty well know for at least the last 50 years. And it took some seriously brave men and women to be among the first to call it out. Now the calling out is easier and the cash settlements are larger but the Catholic church (in particular) has simply paid the price and transferred accused priests to new locations where they continued to do what they do. Pretty sick, IMO.

The Catholic church is a business. Big business, as in Fortune 100 if we knew the numbers but they won't tell us and they don't pay income tax like the rest of us. The leaders of the church are simply making a calculated bet that they can get away with this shit and still make a boatload of money every year.

As for Yvonne, I wish she'd just go away. Loves Trump and loves her church and can make up her own version of "truth" by pulling it out of her ass. Repeatedly, and again and again and again. It's tiring, it's obnoxious and it's definitely not appreciated by virtually anyone on this Forum.

Posted on: 8/30 21:28
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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Quote:

JCman24 wrote:
It is insanely impressive how Yvonne is wrong about just everything in the world. Amazing.


I have been following this more closely than you, JC man24. McCarrick's problem has touched the Vatican is because he went after minors as well as adult men in the seminary. McCarrick would invite seminarians to his beach house where there was only one bedroom. Not all the seminarians took kindly to McCarrick, some transferred to other seminarians and now many of them are posting on Catholic websites. McCarrick's nickname was "Uncle Ted." Pope Benedict stripped McCarrick of all privileges and was basically under house arrest. Pope Francis restored his privileges. So the former Archbishop of Newark will probably bring down the present pope in the Vatican. Abp. Carlo Maria Viganò, the former nuncio to the United States said this Pope Francis knew about McCarrick because he told him.


The Catholic Church has a serious abuse problem regardless of how finely you want to slice and dice the semantics, and the current crisis is probably going to bring up some serious world order-level changes like we haven't seen in centuries. It's going to be hilarious.

Posted on: 8/30 20:27
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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Yvonne wrote:
This problem will continue because people here rationalize certain behaviors. I was watching Bishop Barron who makes youtube videos on church matters. He developed the series called "Catholicism." Bishop Barron said it is clericalism, grave sin, and homosexuality as the main cause of the scandal. This was a 24 minute interview by his staff called "Word on Fire." I know I will get hate for this. I don't care, the bishop hit the problem on the head.


I feel bad for anyone you know in real life. like talking to a lamp post LOL

Posted on: 8/30 19:19
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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Mao wrote:
...

The vast overwhelming majority of cases in the priest scandals do not fall under the definition of paedophilia. Rather they are just homosexual predators and part of significant expression of homosexuality.

...

This is viewed as homophobic so the distinction is not allowed to be drawn.


When men sexually assault women, do you identify the culprits’ apparent heterosexuality as a dominant factor in their crimes? Do you acknowledge the “problem” of their orientation?

Do you engage the the same type of pointlessly abstract intellectual gymnastics? Does anyone?

Posted on: 8/30 19:02
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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JCman24 wrote:
It is insanely impressive how Yvonne is wrong about just everything in the world. Amazing.


I have been following this more closely than you, JC man24. McCarrick's problem has touched the Vatican is because he went after minors as well as adult men in the seminary. McCarrick would invite seminarians to his beach house where there was only one bedroom. Not all the seminarians took kindly to McCarrick, some transferred to other seminarians and now many of them are posting on Catholic websites. McCarrick's nickname was "Uncle Ted." Pope Benedict stripped McCarrick of all privileges and was basically under house arrest. Pope Francis restored his privileges. So the former Archbishop of Newark will probably bring down the present pope in the Vatican. Abp. Carlo Maria Viganò, the former nuncio to the United States said this Pope Francis knew about McCarrick because he told him.

Posted on: 8/30 17:59
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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It is insanely impressive how Yvonne is wrong about just everything in the world. Amazing.


Well, what's most amazing is how publicly vocal she is with her wrongness. There's plenty of wrong people who simply vote for idiots and fascists. She must prove it online, and in government meetings and newspapers.

Posted on: 8/30 17:12
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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It is insanely impressive how Yvonne is wrong about just everything in the world. Amazing.

Posted on: 8/30 16:53
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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bull shit


That describes your post perfectly.

Posted on: 8/30 16:31
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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Again, Jersey Mom- you are absolutely correct. The fish rots from the head down. Bergoglio has magnified the problem beyond belief from day one. Tobin, locally, is a creature of McCarrick

Posted on: 8/30 15:55
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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Usuually, it is helpful to be precise when one speaks. That's why defnitions matter.

Paedophlia is is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children.[1][2] Although girls typically begin the process of puberty at age 10 or 11, and boys at age 11 or 12,[3] criteria for pedophilia extend the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13.[4] A person who is diagnosed with pedophilia must be at least 16 years old, and at least five years older than the prepubescent child, for the attraction to be diagnosed as pedophilia.

The vast overwhelming majority of cases in the priest scandals do not fall under the definition of paedophilia. Rather they are just homosexual predators and part of significant expression of homosexuality. See wikipedia article on ephebophilia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephebophilia Any educated person who has read Plato's Symposium knows all about it!

This is viewed as homophobic so the distinction is not allowed to be drawn. The result is that the problem, homosexuality, is not addressed. Homosexuals are not suppossed to be ordained per canon law. But that has been inverted so that heterosexuals are driven out. See, for example, Good Bye Good Men, by Michael Rose.

Outrageously, every parent volunteer at OLC and any other Catholic place is subjected to a bull shit training, Virtus, which never mentions homosexuality, which pretends the abuse is done by lay people, and which was devloped by a homosexual and which is required by the insurance company which is privately owned by bishops.

Posted on: 8/30 15:54
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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K-Lo2 wrote:
I don't understand why this conversation is getting hung up on clinical definitions? Pedophilia pertains to pre-pubescent children. That being said, kids of all ages are being abused. Can we leave the Latin aside and worry about all of them?


Thank you. Each and every time someone tries to deflect or rationalize this behavior is another time a victim is marginalized. There are so many more that are afraid to come forward because of the judgment and shame.

These priests were "men of God" - weaponizing God with threats of eternal damnation to often manipulate and overpower their victims. Can you imagine being a youngster grappling with that kind of threat?

Their victims are boys AND girls - of all ages and backgrounds. The life-long repercussions of these crimes include much higher rates of depression, substance abuse and suicide.

The fish stinks at the head - and it has for a very long time. Unless the Church faces this scandal once and for all - with heads rolling from the very top of the mountain, they will (continue to) lose their faithful.

Posted on: 8/30 14:49
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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I don't understand why this conversation is getting hung up on clinical definitions? Pedophilia pertains to pre-pubescent children. That being said, kids of all ages are being abused. Can we leave the Latin aside and worry about all of them?

Posted on: 8/30 14:23
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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Holy shit - Do you even read what you write?????

I do not know you but I am certain you should have nothing to do with children ever.



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Yvonne wrote:
I will tell you why I don't buy the term pedophilia, it is just to pigeon hole the sex abuse to one group. It is not. According to the John Jay report, 5% were under 10, the majority was teenage boys. If that is pedophilia then the late Harvey Milk practiced pedophilia because he teen lover was 16 years old. Several months ago, I read about a man who left prison and burglarized a home. He end up raping the homeowner, a female of 84 years. He was going to rape someone female and the age did not matter. I am sure if the victim was 12 female, the press would have labeled him pedophilia, too.

Posted on: 8/30 14:15
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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Those are good and fair questions , Jersey Mom. You know, Fr. Gerry seems like a nice enough old man, gentle and on the Liberal side. It is a little unusual for a priest of such an age to be serving as an assistant. I guess I should have googled Fr. Gerry's name, I guess. I don't know. Fr. Page seems like the rare competent and responsible priest in today's Church. And in mitigation of his resopnsiblity, he has only been at the parish since February and it has had a history of very liberal heterodox and latitidunaiarn approach to sexuality. Also, Fr. Page could have been told it was a "boundary issue," something well short of sexual abuse many years ago and so many years of faithful service had interveened. He might, in fact, had had no access to the nature of the wrongdoing other than the broadest and most euphemic term since the vicitm's statement giving the lurid details only came out on 8/19/18. Still the sexual abuse that happens usually involves grooming of the youngster with the active encouragement of the family. If you read Hanratty's account, that demonstrates it. True paedophiles, on the other hand, seem to have an almost unbelieveable modus operandi.

Posted on: 8/30 14:03
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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I am not hear to cover this up. I believe things need to change and change quickly.

This was told to us as well. There were previous allegations presented, at that time they were investigated they could not be substantiated (so I was told).

Let me say it again. This need to stop! Things need to change! These criminals that are hiding in sheep's clothing need to be brought to justice. If it was my child, you can believe me I would be behind bars for murder.

Posted on: 8/30 13:50
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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As soon as this became known to the Monsignor at OLC, Father Jerry was put on restricted duties, within a week of finding out he has been kicked out of OLC. Father Brian of OLC notified the parishioners at Sunday's mass and let them know right away. He and all Catholics are ashamed that this black mark reflects all of us when it is the act of so few.

I believe each and everyone of these Priests should have a long and stiff prison sentence. This cancer of the church must be removed. But this in noway diminishes my belief in the Church and what it stands for.

I pray for all the victims that they may find closure with this.


So tell me - this article from 2007 popped up on a very quick Google search:

http://www.snapnetwork.org/news/other ... 61007_battle_5_years.html

Are you telling me that the smart Monsignor didn't know of these allegations previously? The canonical "trial" settled the claim satisfactorily - or the 5-figure payout to the victim was sufficient to take care of potential concerns?

Someone put a predator in front of our children - and the archdiocese clearly knew about his past. That's the continued shame and gall of it all - and why Catholics are losing faith.

Posted on: 8/30 13:32
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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As soon as this became known to the Monsignor at OLC, Father Jerry was put on restricted duties, within a week of finding out he has been kicked out of OLC. Father Brian of OLC notified the parishioners at Sunday's mass and let them know right away. He and all Catholics are ashamed that this black mark reflects all of us when it is the act of so few.

I believe each and everyone of these Priests should have a long and stiff prison sentence. This cancer of the church must be removed. But this in noway diminishes my belief in the Church and what it stands for.

I pray for all the victims that they may find closure with this.

Posted on: 8/30 13:20
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This problem will continue because people here rationalize certain behaviors. I was watching Bishop Barron who makes youtube videos on church matters. He developed the series called "Catholicism." Bishop Barron said it is clericalism, grave sin, and homosexuality as the main cause of the scandal. This was a 24 minute interview by his staff called "Word on Fire." I know I will get hate for this. I don't care, the bishop hit the problem on the head.

Posted on: 8/30 12:59
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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Yvonne wrote:
I will tell you why I don't buy the term pedophilia, it is just to pigeon hole the sex abuse to one group. It is not. According to the John Jay report, 5% were under 10, the majority was teenage boys. If that is pedophilia then the late Harvey Milk practiced pedophilia because he teen lover was 16 years old. Several months ago, I read about a man who left prison and burglarized a home. He end up raping the homeowner, a female of 84 years. He was going to rape someone female and the age did not matter. I am sure if the victim was 12 female, the press would have labeled him pedophilia, too.


Get some help. I'm genuinely worried about you.

https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/find-help/index.shtml

Posted on: 8/30 12:44
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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Yvonne wrote:
While people here talk about pedophilia priests, McCarrick known victims were 11, 16 and many were in their 20s, men in the seminary. I don't buy the concept of pedophilia but access to males in general. My contributions to the church probably helped pay for the $180,000 payout by the Archdiocese of Newark to one of McCarrick's victims. The Catholic Church is an institution but the nonsense has been going on in Hollywood according to former child actor Corey Feldman for a long time.


11 year-olds are kids. 16 year-olds are kids. The guy in the original story below was 10 at the time. He was a kid.

This priest in the Archdiocese of Newark was/is a monster and should suffer the consequences of his actions. Your contributions to the church undoubtedly were part of the McCarrick settlement payout. And you have every right to be angry as all get-out at the Archdiocese and the Vatican over how they've handled these types of cases here and around the world.

Yet instead, you're splitting hairs over how old a child can be for the abuse to be considered "pedophilia" vs "pederasty," which is inconsequential to the fact that either is illegal abuse of children. And you're pointing at Stalin, gay dudes from Colombia (It's Colombia, not Columbia, you know), Hollywood, etc., looking for anything to scapegoat other than the failings of the Archdiocese of Newark and other Catholic leadership. What a sad, sick display.

Maybe instead of looking for scapegoats you should think about accountability next time you toss your envelope into the collection plate.

Posted on: 8/30 12:42
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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I will tell you why I don't buy the term pedophilia, it is just to pigeon hole the sex abuse to one group. It is not. According to the John Jay report, 5% were under 10, the majority was teenage boys. If that is pedophilia then the late Harvey Milk practiced pedophilia because he teen lover was 16 years old. Several months ago, I read about a man who left prison and burglarized a home. He end up raping the homeowner, a female of 84 years. He was going to rape someone female and the age did not matter. I am sure if the victim was 12 female, the press would have labeled him pedophilia, too.

Posted on: 8/30 12:32
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Wow I hope to dear God you don't have any children.

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jsh278 wrote:
What the actual fuck did you just say?

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Yvonne wrote:
I don't buy the concept of pedophilia

Posted on: 8/30 11:51
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