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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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Posted on: 10/18 17:01
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K-Lo2 wrote:
I am repeating only one thing. The Catholic Church acting like is a criminal enterprise, covering up and moving around sexual predators for decades.


Right. And the Catholic Church has already paid over 3 BILLION dollars to victims of clergy abuse.

Catholic Church sex abuse settlements

Being gay isn't the problem. The problem is the church. Yes, Yvonne, every time you drop something in the donation basket you are contributing toward the continuation of this widespread abuse.

Posted on: 9/27 18:48
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I am repeating only one thing. The Catholic Church acting like is a criminal enterprise, covering up and moving around sexual predators for decades.

Posted on: 9/27 15:14
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Yvonne wrote:
I absolutely agree with you, K-Lo2 about the covering up, that is on the Catholic Church 100% including the pope who covered up the abuse in Argentina but the abuse victims were rarely young children, they were basically teenage boys. So it is not pedophilia but pederasty. Now the victims since the Dallas Charter in 2004, are seminarian who are abused. Here is my point, by saying it is pedophilia, gives an out for the gay community. That is wrong.


You are repeating the lie, according to the John Jay Report done by FBI people, 5% of the victims were be considered pedophilia. Five percent is not a majority when 95% are basically teenagers of which over 85% were teenage boys. The term is pederasty. It you don't acknowledge that then the late Harvey Milk was a pedophile since his 16 year old lover was underage. These are nothing but lies for deflection. I am looking forward to NY city and the Archdiocese of Newark findings and I expect them to be similar to what has already been expose. Gay men entering the seminary and molesting teens.

Posted on: 9/27 14:07
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You can call it Moe, Larry or Curly for all I care. It's not about "the gay community." It's not about "the pedophile community." There are abusers of every kind in any orgnization. It's about how the organization responds. Penn State blew it. The Catholic Church is Penn State on steroids.

Posted on: 9/27 12:58
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I absolutely agree with you, K-Lo2 about the covering up, that is on the Catholic Church 100% including the pope who covered up the abuse in Argentina but the abuse victims were rarely young children, they were basically teenage boys. So it is not pedophilia but pederasty. Now the victims since the Dallas Charter in 2004, are seminarian who are abused. Here is my point, by saying it is pedophilia, gives an out for the gay community. That is wrong.

Posted on: 9/27 10:22
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THe abuse is on the abusers. The decades long coverup and shuffling of abusers from one parish to another to keey preying on children and teens is on the Catholic Church. There is nothing you can say that can change these facts.

Posted on: 9/27 7:59
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Yes, blame the church for the abuse, but let's ignore that fact that homosexual men the majority abusers committed these crimes. Let's continue to put on blinders. I am looking forward to the report on abuse in NJ since the homosexual pipeline from South America and McCarrick is all part of the Archdiocese of Newark.

Posted on: 9/26 21:54
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Let's not forget who created Satan.

Posted on: 9/25 21:18
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Now, I feel that "catholic church" and "pedo sex abuse" are a little bit like clouds and rain, or like burgers and fries... I'm glad that I've left this shameful institution.

But it's like if every religion had its burden to carry. Catholicism has this, Protestantism has the super rich televangelists and a cult of money in general, Orthodoxy has corruption and political power abuse, Islam has terrorism, Judaism has violent zionism...

I was going to say that Atheism doesn't, but then I remembered about Communist repressions. I'm beginning to think that if there's a God, he isn't the one who created mankind, but that Satan did...

Posted on: 9/25 12:18
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Here's what you should do it if you know someone abused by a Catholic priest in N.J.

Posted on September 23, 2018 8:00 AM | Updated September 21, 2018 6:43 PM

By Kelly Heyboer | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com

If you are a victim of clergy sexual abuse in New Jersey – or know someone who was abused – state investigators say they are ready to listen.

The state Attorney General’s office set up a hotline earlier this month for anyone to report cases of sexual abuse by clergy members. The hotline is the first step in an investigation into how the Catholic Church in New Jersey handled abuse allegations in the wake of a similar probe by a grand jury in Pennsylvania that uncovered abuse cases involving 300 priests.

New Jersey Attorney General Gurbir Grewal said Wednesday the new hotline has been “ringing off the hook.”

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Posted on: 9/23 13:33
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By Kelly Heyboerkheyboer@njadvancemedia.com
NJ Advance Media for NJ.com

Victims of priest sexual abuse who signed confidentiality agreements with Catholic dioceses in New Jersey are free to ignore those deals and speak publicly about their experiences, church officials said in a statement Tuesday.

The announcement means all victims who reached financial settlements with the Catholic Church in New Jersey can call a new hotline established by the state Attorney General's office earlier this month to speak to investigators gathering evidence of clergy sexual abuse in the church.

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Posted on: 9/18 18:09
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Yvonne wrote:
Quote:

jsh278 wrote:
Everyone on here needs to just stop responding to her. She is absolutely ridiculous but you can't reason with ridiculous people.

Quote:

psyop wrote:
blah blah blah LIBERALS, blah blah blah gays are pedophiles.
You are ridiculous.


Of course cover it up and pretend sex abuse by some gay men does not happen at an alarming rate. This is no different than the Jim Crow area when some people physically abused black people. Their neighbors saw what was going on, but they said nothing. It probably bothered them but their silence added tot he problem. This problem is not just exclusive to the Catholic Church, rapes has increased in the military since don't ask don't tell has become history, and then there are the child actors who are passed around like candy. The people who are quiet on this subject are contributing indirectly to the problem.


Excellent points

Posted on: 9/15 11:19
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Stressing that the situation in the underworld was quickly spiraling out of control, Satan, the Great Tempter and Father of Lies, announced Wednesday that he would not allow any more Catholic priests to enter hell.


https://www.theonion.com/satan-refuses ... -priests-in-he-1828696347

Posted on: 9/14 20:00
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Probably won't be engaging in this thread any longer, bc in the weeks since i joined it's become like a bad habit
Final thoughts before going cold turkey:

Mao -what I find problematic isn’t as much your position (everyone is entitled to one) but that your backup is consistently weak, and you engage in intellectual dishonesty.

For example, your original post on Dr. Fitzgibbons would have JCList readers believe that he is an objective authority (“Dr. Fitzgibbons is highly respected with lots of experience with this” was your intro) when a quick google search shows Dr. Fitzgibbons far-right bias. He also does not have board certification in Psychiatiatry & Neurology, and according to the American Board of Medical Specialties, as of late 2017, he isn't board certified in any medical specialty or family medicine. He’s just prolific, not in publications like say JAMA or the New England Journal of Medicine, but on alt-right Catholic sites.

According to JCList newbie Edgewordwise (Mao- please tell me he/she isn’t one of your friends in the orthodox Mass group or perhaps even your ‘wonderful wife’ coming to your defense lol), you are most definitely not a “self-loathing latent homosexual.” We will take it on the word of those who know you best, but honestly the way you present yourself on JCList, I don’t think Sutherland was trying insult you, but simply being blunt about his suspicions.
It’s the “self-loathing” part that’s troublesome, not the homosexual part, yet that Edgewordwise seems to automatically assume that the phrase was an insult, seems telling of his/her bias that being gay is an insult. Don't think Sutherland is the one unenlightened.

Posted on: 9/14 17:10

Edited by esp123 on 2018/9/14 17:35:29
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I don't know where Fr. Gerry Sudol is actually living nor why his name is still on the bulletin as being in residence. I could only suspect that it would take awhile to remove it if he has been moved. Again, I don't know why he is still on the bulletin. Still, if he is not in ministry and not proven guilty of anything, certainly not of an allegation of something that may or may not have happened awhile ago, he does get to live somewhere. There are prosecuted sex offenders who live through our neighborhoods. I would be less concerned with where he is living and more focused on what any investigation will entail.

But again, I no longer actually practice Catholicism and I don't go to services, unless I absolutely have to like an immediately family member's funeral or nuptials.

Quote:

edgewordwise wrote:


To return to the original post, why is Fr. Gerry still listed as in-residence in the OLC church bulletin and not one mention of this particular scandal is made? This kind of damage control or lack thereof by ignoring the elephant in the room is discouraging.


Posted on: 9/14 15:35
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The Italian newspaper, il Fatto Quotidiano, has the 300-page dossier commissioned by Pope Benedict. It has the names of the gay mafia, the term the newspaper used in Vatican City and other parts of the world. Several months after this report was given to Benedict, he resigned. The rumor is, he wanted a younger pope to clean up the church and he was too old to do the job. The report lists all includes the bishops who covered up sex abuse in the church. On that list was the bishop of Argentina, now Pope Francis. Also, on listed in the dossier was McCarrick. Benedict basically had McCarrick basically under house arrest, but when Francis became pope, he restored his privileges and made McCarrick a trusted advisor. McCarrick, the predator cardinal is the one who suggested that Tobin should be head of the Archdiocese of Newark. I am looking for to the Italian newspapers listing names especially bishops in the USA.

Posted on: 9/14 14:58
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Though Rod Dreher has some trenchant criticism of Dr. FitzGibbons. https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/

Posted on: 9/14 10:53
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Dear Mr. Sutherland and friends:

Since I gather that you would see your younger self as previously self-loathing and therefore closeted homosexual, I know you mean me only the best by posing your question!
Freud may have some usefulness and I know that there is some validity in the concept of denial and negative transference, but I think it’s rarely helpful when discussing issues. It would not be helpful, for example, if I were to dismiss your opinions as a mere defense mechanism etc.

Hatred of Christianity is co-extensive with Christianity. But if anything is self-loathing, it is the current liberal/progressive “Christianity,” represented in this thread by you, ESP, and others, and which has been regnant in the Western church since Vatican II and which accomplishes the sort of trans valuation of values- a concept described by Nietzsche and summed up, he says, in the figure of the Antichrist. That seems to be what I hear from you, ESP, K-Lo and others.
When it comes to Catholicism, calling something medieval, or pre Vatican II is to vouch for its authenticity and Christian truth. Revelation ended with the death of the last apostle and the job of the bishop, with Pope at the head, is to preserve this- not change it. This gets people all agitated and they try to draw up a list of showing all the changes. What is certain is that the Catholic sexual ethic has always held virginity as the highest value, an eschatological sign, while simultaneously raising the marriage bed to the level of a sacrament which shows the love of God in the children that issue forth while being very wary of sexuality in the fallen world.

Dr. FitzGibbons has assisted accused priests. More to his credit! Isn’t everyone entitled to assistance? Also, I personally know of innocent priests who are scapegoated while the real wrongdoers merely keep rising in power. In the hysteria that gets whipped up, many innocent priests are thrown under the bus. Fr. McRae in NH is probably the most famous of these. http://thesestonewalls.com/gordon-mac ... ongly-imprisoned-america/

That brings me to another point: as bad as all this is, the majority of Catholic priests are faithful to their vows and vocations. Unlike in the 1970s and thereabouts, those priests who are unfaithful are not victimizing the faithful but are carrying on with other consenting adults. Most abuse of minors occurs in the home, by relatives or friends, and public schools, sport teams, etc are all experiencing much higher levels of abuse than the Catholic church.

Someone sneered earlier on that I was predicting the end of civilization. Yes, the end of this civilization which was formed by Jerusalem and Athens through Rome. If , contrary to the promise of scripture, the church were to be extinguished, the civilization that follows would be, to the progressives, some sort of utopia. I think, that in fact, it would be some sort of nightmare for all of us that has been described in the dystopic literature that has been warning us of what such a future would be since the end of the 19th century.

Yours,

Mao

Posted on: 9/14 10:42
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AG Grewal Establishes Task Force to Investigate Allegations of Sexual Abuse by Clergy in Catholic Dioceses of New Jersey

N.J. hotline to report priest sex abuse overwhelmed by number of callers

Catholic Church helps priest accused of sex abuse get a gig at Disney World

*Despite knowing that (the priest) was a sexual predator, the diocese later gave him a positive reference for a job at Walt Disney World, where he worked for 15 years as a train driver in the Magic Kingdom.


Posted on: 9/14 9:16
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Indeed. I think I meant disgusting. Did not have my coffee yet.

Posted on: 9/14 8:28
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This kind of damage control or lack thereof by ignoring the elephant in the room is discouraging.


The understatement of the century.

Posted on: 9/14 8:04
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LOL. Having known Mao personally for many years I can tell you he is a happily married lawyer with a wonderful wife and kids who he can drive crazy with his encyclopedic knowledge of church history.

Sutherland, if you are wielding the suspicion that one is a “self-loathing latent homosexual” as an insult, then that makes me doubt how enlightened you are. I always find it hypocritical when supporters of gay rights turn around and think they can bully people by trying to out them.

To return to the original post, why is Fr. Gerry still listed as in-residence in the OLC church bulletin and not one mention of this particular scandal is made? This kind of damage control or lack thereof by ignoring the elephant in the room is discouraging.


Posted on: 9/14 7:04
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Mao,

I suspect that you are a self loathing latent homosexual. You're holding onto an institution that has self destructed despite having done many good works. Your justification for the reestablishment of a church that could no longer be productive in my opinion is just your way of looking for shelter so you could remain in denial about key aspects of your self.

I find it sad. And I mean that sincerely. You seem intellectually capable with some capacity for intellectual curiosity. But you're so emotionally immature that you cannot realize your potential or find happiness.

This is not a personal attack on you, but only my theory and opinion. Which candidly is based only on a few of your posts that I've read. Well that in conjunction with my spending several years in the seminary and knowing other people who very much seem to be like you. Incidentally, when I was in the seminary McCarrick leaned towards many of the same conservative positions that you espouse. It's an observation I find particularly interesting.

Candidly, I believe or perhaps hope that this entire ordeal is going to be very transformative for the Catholic. Unfortunately for you, the result will not be the institution you hope for. For your sake, I hope you can find peace in that and make a place for yourself in it.




Posted on: 9/13 21:59
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Wow. Obviously I hit a nerve.

Real my last post – I laid out an argument, as to why the person or websites you offer as supposedly objective authorities are anything but disinterested and have definitive strong agendas. Notice you did not respond to the substance of my argument and instead try to deflect.

I find you, and Yvonne, are not furthering the discussion by offering disingenuous stuff that as Sutherland suggested, is designed to pull the wool over the eyes of those less educated and or those unwilling to look critically at what you proffer as “proof” of your positions. And if you are indeed a lawyer you arguably should be held to a higher standard than the non-attorney Yvonnes of the world.

As to what my beliefs are – be it Catholic, Protestant, Wiccan, Muslim, agnostic, atheist, whatever – how is that relevant to being able to weigh in with my views of what i see as weak arguments on your part? People pointing that out you then incorrectly characterize as engaging in ad hominem attacks.

And if as you say you're truly "proud and grateful" for being alt right then proudly wear the mantle without being so thin skinned.





Posted on: 9/13 19:04
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Esp-

All you ever do is ad homimens. Alt right ahhhh. Latin Mass runn. (And all of this I am very proud of and grateful for btw).

Insult me by saying that its unbelievable that anyone would pay me to make an argument in court.

Can you engage in a substantive argument.

Also, you are preoccupied with attacking me personally- my beliefs, my occupation, my faith, the practice of my faith. I honestly am bewildered by it. I asked some questions about you to help me understand. Are you a Catholic? A nun? An exCatholic? Etc.

You have not been disclosing. WHy not? It would help the conversation- except all you want to do is shut me down.

Yours,

Mao




Posted on: 9/13 18:19
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The publication that is promoting Dr. Fitzgibbons as a so-called authority is Lifesite.com, a hyper-orthodox Catholic organization who headlines itself as “The #1 site for Pro-Life News!”

Actual journalistic ones like the Washington Post, The New York Times (and in comparison to lifesite.com, even Fox News) all tag Lifesite.com as being ultra-conservative Catholic.

Snopes.com which analyzes fake news on both liberal and conservative ends of the spectrum, has called out lifesite.com a number of times. Watchdog sites like mediamatters.org and rightwingwatch.org have also called out lifesite.com.

The only one calling this Dr. Fitzgibbons “well-respected” is none other than JCList’s pope-wanna-be.

A simple google search on the doctor comes up with the following:

* Dr. Fitzgibbons actually worked for accused priests in a conservative diocese, as part of his membership in an organization that defended priests from abuse charges. http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/ ... luated-troubled-kc-priest

* Doctor’s google reviews not terrific, and according to one patient, his practice also did reparative LGBT therapy https://www.google.com/search?q=richar ... 6c3163:0x401787043d3a1894,1,,,

* He runs an orthodox family counseling practice and links to this piece he wrote suggesting that Catholics who are uncomfortable with orthodox practices are the ones with psychological/anger issues. https://www.maritalhealing.com/conflic ... ressiveAnger-Fall2017.pdf

@ Mao, people pay you to argue their cases, for real? Because you aren’t doing a great job presenting your position. Trying to sell Dr. Fitzgibbons as a credible, objective source is sorta insulting our intelligence. If you can't forward your position with credible sources who aren't waving an agenda or bordering on nutty, then expect to get called out.

Posted on: 9/13 17:51
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Mr. Sutherland:

The plenty of gay men in many resposible positions who are not engaging in sexual abuse whom you cite may not suffer from any disorder (personality disorder such as narcisism) that explains this abusive behaviour which FitzGibbons is addressing. Nor do the gay men you cite serve as guardians of doctrine that prescribes homosexuality so they are not in the bind that Sipe describes.

Full disclosure, I suspect that FitzGibbon probably subsribes to the clinical perspective that homosexuality is a disorder or a maladaption. I understand that this is considered hate speech. I don't think that is fair. I can understand how a gay man would, however, percieve it as condemning.

Richard Sipe on the other hand is post Christian and pro gay.

Yours,

Mao




Posted on: 9/13 17:45
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Because it's not at all consistent with the vast collection of material on the topic that I've read by more renowned authorities. Also, anecdotally, there are plenty of gay men in the world in positions as teachers, police officers, professional athletes, coaches, physicians, attorneys, plumbers who are not running around sexually assaulting people. The information Fitzgibbons published is skewed based upon the population of the study that he chose. He's entirely full of bologna. There is absolutely no integrity to his study.

For an educated guy with a law degree, you're making weak arguments. You're hoping that your reader is uneducated and will sheepishly adopt your position based upon unsubstantiated materials.

You're free to enjoy older liturgy. I do as well. However, you're not going to get too many people to subscribe to your offensive and antiquated notions.
Quote:

Mao wrote:
Dear Sutherland and Frankn M:

Why do you, Mr. Sutherland, reject this article and why do you Frank M., resort to expletives?

Dr. Fitzgibbons describes narcissim as a personality trait associated with sexual assault and he seems to bring a psychodynamic approach to how this unfolds. He also is unequivocal in his support of Christian sexual morality. This does, of course, go against the majority of mental health professionals who have an antagonistic relationship with traditionial Christianity. Freud may be largely discredited but some of this antagonism started with him (even though he is actually much more nuanced on this).,

Richard W. Sipe, an ex monk, progressive psycoanalayst, also did some really good work in this area. He rejects Christian sexual morality and sees the problem as the dynamic of the guardians of the Faith who privately don't believe in the faith creating a web of deceit. http://www.awrsipe.com/

Sexual predation of minors or of subordinates is so heinous that I think the Sipe thesis alone is inadquate. Personality disorder, or demons, seems about right.

Yours,

Mao

Posted on: 9/13 16:59
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So you're now saying that Cardinal Archbishop Tobin is gay and sexually abusive to others?

Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Sexual predator McCarrick was archbishop of Newark, he appointed many people to high positions including telling Pope Francis to appoint Tobin now Cardinal to McCarrick's old post. .

Posted on: 9/13 16:53
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