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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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bodhipooh wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
Actually, hero69, most legal and illegal live in tax abated buildings.


LOL... wut?! This is quite the whopper. Quote your source.

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Yvonne wrote:
I went to the new buildings [...] assigned in the downtown area. The nonvoters were noncitizens from different racial groups [...] So no hero69, they are not paying the school taxes.


This is SUCH an old trope used by people trying to make a point by conflating two separate facts to make it look like a valid argument or explanation. But, it is simply NOT TRUE.

Just because someone is not paying a tax to the city directly, it does not mean they are not paying it indirectly. Renters may not pay property and school taxes directly, but they do so indirectly. Also, the claim that immigrants only live in abated buildings is just simply not true. It doesn't even pass the common sense or smell test. In fact, I would argue that the very opposite is true: most illegal immigrants live in old buildings (many of them in illegal boarding houses) and not in abated buildings. Or, do you truly, really believe all illegal immigrants are living in luxury DTJC buildings paying exorbitant rents???


Illegal apartments and overcrowding are factors and burden our public schools.

Posted on: 2018/11/28 21:13
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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On a side note:

The State has put a hold / ban on all new charter schools. There is a group that was planning to open a charter based on the Montessori teaching method. Their application got rejected in October.

https://www.njspotlight.com/stories/18 ... ects-latest-two-hopefuls/


Posted on: 2018/11/28 20:31
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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Yvonne wrote:
Actually, hero69, most legal and illegal live in tax abated buildings.


LOL... wut?! This is quite the whopper. Quote your source.

Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
I went to the new buildings [...] assigned in the downtown area. The nonvoters were noncitizens from different racial groups [...] So no hero69, they are not paying the school taxes.


This is SUCH an old trope used by people trying to make a point by conflating two separate facts to make it look like a valid argument or explanation. But, it is simply NOT TRUE.

Just because someone is not paying a tax to the city directly, it does not mean they are not paying it indirectly. Renters may not pay property and school taxes directly, but they do so indirectly. Also, the claim that immigrants only live in abated buildings is just simply not true. It doesn't even pass the common sense or smell test. In fact, I would argue that the very opposite is true: most illegal immigrants live in old buildings (many of them in illegal boarding houses) and not in abated buildings. Or, do you truly, really believe all illegal immigrants are living in luxury DTJC buildings paying exorbitant rents???

Posted on: 2018/11/28 12:42
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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Yvonne wrote:
most legal and illegal [imigrants] live in tax abated buildings.


Just when you think Yvonne can't say any shit that's crazier. There isn't enough abated units in all of JC to hold a fraction of our roughly 90k foreign born residents, even if there were no non-immigrants living in them. But with the exception of the H1B crowd, most immigrants live in the shitty old unabated housing beyond ward E.

Posted on: 2018/11/28 3:12
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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Actually, hero69, most legal and illegal live in tax abated buildings. I was asked to register voters for CIO which is the fore runner of Jersey City Together. I went to the new buildings (affordable housing) assigned in the downtown area. The nonvoters were noncitizens from different racial groups. Nonprofit groups usually churches get money from the federal government to settle legal immigrants. The Catholic Church received around $90 million last year which is why they are pro immigration. But they are not the only nonprofit group, other religious groups also receive funding but I am not aware of the amount. So no hero69, they are not paying the school taxes.
oh my, I stand "corrected". so, even tax-abated buildings pay taxes. 2nd, are you suggesting that only illegal aliens live in these "tax-abated" buildings? do all illegals live in these buildings? do any legal immigrants live there? what % of residents of these buildings are native born citizens? %? please enlighten me.

Posted on: 2018/11/28 2:30
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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What a mess.

Posted on: 2018/11/28 1:10
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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Actually, hero69, most legal and illegal live in tax abated buildings. I was asked to register voters for CIO which is the fore runner of Jersey City Together. I went to the new buildings (affordable housing) assigned in the downtown area. The nonvoters were noncitizens from different racial groups. Nonprofit groups usually churches get money from the federal government to settle legal immigrants. The Catholic Church received around $90 million last year which is why they are pro immigration. But they are not the only nonprofit group, other religious groups also receive funding but I am not aware of the amount. So no hero69, they are not paying the school taxes.

Posted on: 2018/11/28 0:08
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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Big problem with illegals living in illegally converted attics/basements, not to code. That extra money goes into the owners pockets. And JC real estate taxes pay a tiny amount of JC schools costs.

Posted on: 2018/11/27 21:36
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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Monroe wrote:
1. Fulop is encouraging illegal immigrants, which stresses housing and schools. Not the suburbs problem.
2. I don’t disagree about education costs. JC already spends about 25% more per student, while graduation rates far below the state average.
3. If you don’t think there is a ton of waste and corruption in HC schools I suggest you’d be wrong. It’s always easy to spend others money, in this case a half a billion dollars each and every year. Newark sucks almost twice as much-with similar educational outcomes. Uninvolved parents are the root-Union City schools are diverse too, but parents there support education with great results.
what bs. don't most immigrants (legal and illegal) live in houses or apartments and pay rent or property taxes. this rent is then used to cover the anlords property taxes which funds hc schools

Posted on: 2018/11/27 20:41
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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1. Fulop is encouraging illegal immigrants, which stresses housing and schools. Not the suburbs problem.
2. I don’t disagree about education costs. JC already spends about 25% more per student, while graduation rates far below the state average.
3. If you don’t think there is a ton of waste and corruption in HC schools I suggest you’d be wrong. It’s always easy to spend others money, in this case a half a billion dollars each and every year. Newark sucks almost twice as much-with similar educational outcomes. Uninvolved parents are the root-Union City schools are diverse too, but parents there support education with great results.

Posted on: 2018/11/26 22:15
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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Monroe, if you object to Jersey City getting “more” funding than suburban schools, then consider this: 1. the suburbs should be doing more to provide public housing to low income families instead of having Cities like JC shoulder the majority of the financial burden - of which such costs bleed over into school costs;
2. Costs associated with education are going to be greater in a City than a suburb, thus equity is measured differently between the two. The state of NJ and it’s suburban dwellers benefit from Jersey City in the form of business/employment, etc. If suburban dwellers want to drive to JC and benefit from the employment opportunities here or benefit with respect to business dealings here in JC (whether it’s through contracts/construction/whatever), then they should stop complaining about the added costs of school funding - they know it’s more expensive here across the board with respect to funding a school in JC and south jersey (just like the cost of real estate is different). They are benefitting financially off the back of jersey city, but complaining about it. They want to see their pockets get filled in Jersey City, while letting the City kids have subpar education because, why not, their kids don’t go to school there. Anyone that works in JC or financially benefits from JC and lives elsewhere has no right to complain. If you want to complain, then move to another state where you don’t have to rely on getting your paycheck from a large mixed income City.

Can’t have your cake and eat it too. It reminds me of all the upstate New Yorkers complaining about nyc schools, while their standard of living is directly a product of the NYC tax engine.

Posted on: 2018/11/26 19:12
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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bodhipooh, perhaps the reason people leave JC list, is because they are tired of personal digs for the sake of digs. I agree Monroe that your Dad, $30,000 a year is a lot. I image there is land for that money. My former home in JC, is now paying $40,000 a year, and there is no land. Here is the problem, Monroe, I voted for the income tax to replace property tax for the schools. It never happened. I would have voted no if it knew it was a lie. Here is the problem, educators believe spending money in urban will replace all of the social problems. Plus the fact, immigrants both legal and illegal are in JC adding to the school population. I have been to community meetings in the 1990s where the then superintendent of school talked about closing schools based on the population growth. Schools 16 and 3 were supposed to be combined into one school. New development that did not pay school taxes plus immigration has pushed JC into an exploding population school system without the funds now.

Posted on: 2018/11/26 15:54
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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My dad pays over $30,000, as his town only gets under 12% of school costs from Trenton and they pay over 86% of its own school costs.

Posted on: 2018/11/26 0:24
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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It is frustrating, but not at all surprising, that Yvonne (a self professed community activist and fiscal watchdog) is entirely clueless (or, perhaps, purposefully obtuse) when it comes to the topic of property tax rates. People who keep pointing out that 20K is not a bargain, or that it is too high, should consider themselves lucky and keep in mind that, given that JC's current tax rate is 33% lower than the average NJ municipal tax rate. Indeed, our property taxes ARE a bargain. If and when the school taxes are raised (and, they WILL go up) and as pressure mounts in Trenton from other municipalities to cut back on the state funding/support, we could see our local tax rate climb 50% to a number equal or close to the state average. If you think 20K is too much, try imagining paying 30K.

Our property tax rate situation is far from settled, and I suspect the city administration has studied this closely and concluded it is best to "forget" all that talk of a second reval. Better to not bring more attention to our low tax rate, lest other municipalities really push for cuts in state funding for our local budgets.

Posted on: 2018/11/25 23:33
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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https://jerseydigs.com/jersey-city-pro ... -tax-rate-2018-finalized/. https://www.state.nj.us/cgi-bin/educat ... dist_code2390&maxhits=650 JC spends 678 million on education, and 79%, $528 million comes from suburban taxpayers, JC pays under 17%. That’s your benefit, and the reason why the tax rate is a bargain.

Posted on: 2018/11/25 21:32

Edited by Monroe on 2018/11/25 21:55:42
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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Your low tax rate compared to the average NJ tax rate is a huge benefit.

Posted on: 2018/11/25 21:25
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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What benefits? I sent my children to Catholic schools. The schools took my tax dollars that I never used. Where is my break? Besides, the amount I paid to the county make up for is missing to the schools. Only 5% goes to the county even though tax abated buildings also receive those services.

Posted on: 2018/11/25 21:07
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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Yes, but JC taxpayers have enjoyed the benefits of having suburban taxpayers pay for educating their schoolchildren-billions of dollars. Your demand that they pay even more to cover JC charter schools is a non starter.

Posted on: 2018/11/25 16:26
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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The state of NJ was a partner in crime with JC. They allowed a changed in tax laws in 1990 introduced by the 31st District to give tax abatements to market rate housing, until the law was changed abatements were limited to low income housing. Newport was built (1980s) without tax abatements but was applied much later. The state knew exactly what was going on in every administration. The state knew no school taxes will be collected, so in essence, the state gave the matches to JC in order to burn the school tax base.

Posted on: 2018/11/25 16:09
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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You can’t ignore the tax rate. JC taxpayers have a sweet deal because suburban taxpayers fund its schools for them. Asking them to fund JC charter schools is insulting and absurd.

Posted on: 2018/11/24 16:15
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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I don't think people living downtown and paying $20K to $40K are getting away with not paying taxes. The fact that Murphy is trying to buy votes with paying for Community colleges at the expense of cutting school aid is wrong. The state allowed the laws that many JC mayors used for tax abatements knowing full well it will cut into educational funding. So, yes, the state is responsible. For many years, the Department of Community affairs approved our budgets and bonding. The state had the tools to takeover JC budget has it has done in many community including Hoboken about 15 to 20 years ago.

Posted on: 2018/11/24 15:48
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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Yvonne, the fact remains that JC taxpayers pay only 17% of the cost cost of educating its own children, while enjoying a local tax rate far less than the state average. Trying to pick the pockets of suburban taxpayers to pay more is a non starter. How about JC pay its fair share?

Posted on: 2018/11/24 0:12
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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Monroe, here is the point, charter schools started in school districts that got that cash cow (state money). Those communities that did not receive that money did not start charter schools. As I said before, Bayonne mayor and assemblyman introduced the bill and there is no charter schools in Bayonne because Bayonne did not receive the funding like JC. Murphy is paying for his community college with funds that would have gone to districts like JC.

Posted on: 2018/11/23 23:56
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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Yvonne, Trenton gives many suburban towns very little in school aid, not the over 80% it gives JC. And those towns pay a ton of $ in income and sales tax and see JC and Newark schools getting almost 1.5 billion each and every year. Now you want suburban towns to pay for JC charter schools? Ain’t gonna happen.

Posted on: 2018/11/23 23:30
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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Of course the state should, after all the state said, lottery, sales, and income tax should go to public schools. Charter schools have insisted they are public schools, Monroe. Besides, I still remember legislators coming to the Van Vorst community pushing for the state income tax saying it will replace school property taxes. They lied.

Posted on: 2018/11/23 21:52
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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No, they’re not obligated to-JC has known for 8 years this reduction was coming, and refused to prepare a plan to address it, and also gave away Pilots during that time.

Posted on: 2018/11/23 20:20
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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I am saying, former Assemblyman Joe Doria, who introduced this bill for former mayor Bret Schundler, told me Bayonne will not have charter schools because they cannot afford to spend the money. The state has the obligation to provide the funding when they pass the any laws. They took away JC extra funding so they are obliged to foot the charter school bill.

Posted on: 2018/11/23 17:42
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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Are you saying other taxpayers pick up the cost of charter schools AND continue to fund over $400 million for JC schools??

Posted on: 2018/11/23 17:26
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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This is my suggestion, have the state pay for charter schools. Only school systems that received large state aid had charter schools. Those that received little to no state aid, did not start charter schools. $67 million leaves the Jersey City school budget to charter schools. Realistically, today, if charter school laws were passed today, considering the funding problems there would be no charter schools. My comments are not an attack on charter schools but it is a realistic picture of the problem.

Posted on: 2018/11/22 1:11
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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I daresay the idea of taxing marijuana sales partly for our children future is a delightful proposition. Sin to Science!

Posted on: 2018/11/22 1:07
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