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DanL

Re: JC Public Schools is short $70 million

#28

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Jersey City is nowhere near the top of this list, last I looked about 10-15% above average. Iin Hudson County, less than Hoboken, Harrison and Union City -

The 50 school districts that spend the most per student in N.J.

The most — and least — expensive school districts in New Jersey

Quote:

stateaidguy wrote:
Quote:

newbie100 wrote:
BTW how many students does JC have and what is our per student spending?

New Jersey has three different ways to account for per student spending.

As another poster said, the Taxpayer Guide to Education Spending lists JC as spending $22,751 per student for
"Total Spending Per Pupil."

That amount includes pensions, construction spending, Social Security, and Post-Retirement Healthcare, plus spending from federal aid. It is the most inclusive, and most accurate, number for what any NJ school district's spending is. It is also 90% more per student than the national average.

If you are doing interstate comparisons, you should use Total Spending Per Pupil.

There is also "Budgetary Cost Per Pupil," which includes things that are directly under the BOE's control, essentially opex spending.

A district's Budgetary Cost Per Pupil is about $4000-$4500 per student less than its "Total Spending Per Pupil." JC's Budgetary Cost Per Pupil is $18,154 per student.

The state average for Budgetary Cost Per Pupil is about $15,000 per student.

HOWEVER, is is a third, most exclusive, number for spending that is used in the School Funding Reform Act. It only includes Equalization Aid, Sped Aid, Security Aid, the local tax levy, and Adjustment Aid. It excludes federal aid and all of the state's numerous indirect streams of aid. This third and lowest calculation of spending is called "Spending as Defined."

By this number Jersey City only spends $527,389,023 for 30,753 students, or $17,149 per student.

Since "Spending as Defined" excludes so much of Jersey City's spending, and because the School Funding Reform Act has a sky-high Adequacy budget for Jersey City, Jersey City is legally about $3100 per student below Adequacy even though its spending is well above NJ's average and dramatically above the national average.

Posted on: 4/3 9:14

ecinjc

Re: JC Public Schools is short $70 million

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But Data can be manipulated and he states the edlaw study is bias, where upon first reading I thought it was a good analysis. Obviously some suburban school districts are still very upset about the Abbott ruling. Also Jersey City budget ballooned under state control, which suburbs never contended with. State control is part of the reason why we needed adjustment aid to begin with. The study says we need to force pilots to contribute and increase local fair share OVER TIME. In the meantime our district still dilapidated buildings and other problems because of state control. I just want to make sure Suburban malcontents aren’t trying to hijak a nuanced debate about how to fund our schools going forward. Full disclosure my kids attend JCPS!

Posted on: 4/2 19:04

HeightsNative

Re: JC Public Schools is short $70 million

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Quote:

ecinjc wrote:
Ok so it’s clear you have some objections to the study. And I was misinformed in thinking some of edlaw researchers were related to Rutgers. Also if they are funded by JCEA I agree there is probably some bias there. But I looked on your blog and see no disclosure of your name/identity. I think that it would be powerful to disclose this information so we can see what your potential agenda/bias may be. Especially if you are accusing others...

Stateaids identity doesn't matter; the data does. If I were stateaid I'd stay anonymous, especially in NJ. Stop focusing on the wrong thing.

Posted on: 4/2 18:38

Monroe

Re: JC Public Schools is short $70 million

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17% is the important number here, which is how much JC funds its own schools.

Posted on: 4/2 18:36

ecinjc

Re: JC Public Schools is short $70 million

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Ok so it’s clear you have some objections to the study. And I was misinformed in thinking some of edlaw researchers were related to Rutgers. Also if they are funded by JCEA I agree there is probably some bias there. But I looked on your blog and see no disclosure of your name/identity. I think that it would be powerful to disclose this information so we can see what your potential agenda/bias may be. Especially if you are accusing others...

Posted on: 4/2 16:49

stateaidguy

Re: JC Public Schools is short $70 million

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This pretty much sums up what the Education Law Center sees of needy, even desperate, districts in the rest of New Jersey.

Resized Image

Posted on: 4/2 10:35

stateaidguy

Re: JC Public Schools is short $70 million

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Quote:

ecinjc wrote:
Here’s a good overview of funding issues from Rutgers Edlaw. It’s a complex issue and will need more than just a portion of abatements to fix. But it’s good to understand that we are not overfunded based on the number of disadvantaged, eel,and special needs kids we serve. http://www.edlawcenter.org/assets/fil ... _School_Funding_Case_.pdf

This is b******t.

First of all, that's not from "Rutgers." It's from the Education Law Center, which has no formal connection to Rutgers.

The Education Law Center is an entity that gets a third of its budget from the NJEA and does whatever the NJEA wants it to do. It isn't an independent group at all.

Even if the ELC were an independent group and even if it were from Rutgers, so what? People from a university can be biased and/or wrong.

Second, you do not understand SFRA based on your description of what that report even says.

All that report points out is that Jersey City is below SFRA's (inflated) definition of Adequacy, a fact that no one disputes, but that normal people point out is due to Jersey City's refusal to raise its school taxes in any way proportional to its increase in wealth.

The report blames this all on the tax cap, but the JCBOE hasn't even consistently raised taxes at 2.0%, has never used banked cap, and has never considered a referendum on a higher levy.

The SFRA formula already accounts for the number of economically disadvantaged students a district has. There is no accounting for "eels," but students who are English Language Learners have an extra weight as well. Special ed classification actually doesn't have a weight in the SFRA formula (for any district.)

Because the Jersey City Public Schools have a high FRL-eligible rate and a high rate of students who are ELLs, it has a much higher Adequacy Budget per student than the average budget.

HOWEVER, SFRA isn't so simple as to solely give a district money based on its demographics because tax base is a factor in appropriate state aid too.

NJ's aid formula, like the formulas of all states, intends to give state aid in inverse proportion to a district's wealth.

Jersey City is not a "rich" district in terms of tax base, but it is an average district. Yet, despite being average in tax base, Jersey City's state aid per student is actually in the top 20 in New Jersey.

Although SFRA doesn't differentiate between residential and non-residential property, Jersey City also has about double the proportion of non-residential property of the average NJ town.

SFRA calculates a Local Fair Share for Jersey City (like it does all districts) of $370 million for 2017-18. SFRA calculates an Adequacy Budget for Jersey City of $630 million.

The difference between that $370 million that Jersey City is economically capable of paying is Equalization Aid, Special Ed aid, and Security Aid.

Jersey City, however, pays nowhere near its full Local Fair Share and it relies on Adjustment Aid to keep a low tax rate that will hit 0.42 in 2018-19, or one-third of the state average.

Although Jersey City's tax base is by far the state's largest (for 2018-19 it will be $180 million larger than the next largest district's (Hoboken's) Jersey City's tax levy is only the 16th largest in NJ, and is higher than poorer and smaller towns like Newark, Cherry Hill, West Orange, and Clifton.

Because of of the state's chronic budget problems, the state has nowhere near enough money to fairly or fully fund its many towns that have growing enrollments and shrinking tax bases.

Some districts are underaided (by the state) by $9000 per student.

Because the state cannot make the pie large enough to fully fund every district, it has to divide that pie more evenly.

http://njeducationaid.blogspot.com/20 ... enter-jersey-city-is.html

Posted on: 4/2 10:30

ecinjc

Re: JC Public Schools is short $70 million

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Here’s a good overview of funding issues from Rutgers Edlaw. It’s a complex issue and will need more than just a portion of abatements to fix. But it’s good to understand that we are not overfunded based on the number of disadvantaged, eel,and special needs kids we serve. http://www.edlawcenter.org/assets/fil ... _School_Funding_Case_.pdf

Posted on: 4/1 16:00

stateaidguy

Re: JC Public Schools is short $70 million

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Quote:

newbie100 wrote:
BTW how many students does JC have and what is our per student spending?

New Jersey has three different ways to account for per student spending.

As another poster said, the Taxpayer Guide to Education Spending lists JC as spending $22,751 per student for
"Total Spending Per Pupil."

That amount includes pensions, construction spending, Social Security, and Post-Retirement Healthcare, plus spending from federal aid. It is the most inclusive, and most accurate, number for what any NJ school district's spending is. It is also 90% more per student than the national average.

If you are doing interstate comparisons, you should use Total Spending Per Pupil.

There is also "Budgetary Cost Per Pupil," which includes things that are directly under the BOE's control, essentially opex spending.

A district's Budgetary Cost Per Pupil is about $4000-$4500 per student less than its "Total Spending Per Pupil." JC's Budgetary Cost Per Pupil is $18,154 per student.

The state average for Budgetary Cost Per Pupil is about $15,000 per student.

HOWEVER, is is a third, most exclusive, number for spending that is used in the School Funding Reform Act. It only includes Equalization Aid, Sped Aid, Security Aid, the local tax levy, and Adjustment Aid. It excludes federal aid and all of the state's numerous indirect streams of aid. This third and lowest calculation of spending is called "Spending as Defined."

By this number Jersey City only spends $527,389,023 for 30,753 students, or $17,149 per student.

Since "Spending as Defined" excludes so much of Jersey City's spending, and because the School Funding Reform Act has a sky-high Adequacy budget for Jersey City, Jersey City is legally about $3100 per student below Adequacy even though its spending is well above NJ's average and dramatically above the national average.

Posted on: 4/1 14:51

light12v

Re: JC Public Schools is short $70 million

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Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Yes, you can agree to having your taxes raised to cover the difference.

Reval,,,small potatoes.... & So Starts the REAL Fun 4 JC Taxpayers !

Posted on: 3/31 15:39

JCGuys

Re: JC Public Schools is short $70 million

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Quote:

brewster wrote:
So, a quick pass at the numbers JC school costs shows we simply pay staff more than almost anyone, #98 of 103 peer districts. One must assume from years of caving in on contract negotiations. How does a union making more than almost anyone else in the whole country keep pleading poverty?

But almost as interesting is what comes as the last priority, extracurriculars, at 8|103. Surely someone has studies connections between extracurriculars and education outcomes?? Students more engaged in participation in any school activity surely engage more in the classroom.

To be fair, It's the highest cost of living in the state so teachers should be compensated more. But I'm still trying to figure out where the other money is going. $23k a student. Ok. 40 or 50 percent of that is for teachers salaries and fringe benefits. Another percentage to operate and maintain the old schools. What about the rest? Administration seemed really high, but not the highest. Extra curricular seemed really low.

Open up a voucher system and see if the private sector can do any better with 23k.

Posted on: 3/31 14:37

brewster

Re: JC Public Schools is short $70 million

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So, a quick pass at the numbers JC school costs shows we simply pay staff more than almost anyone, #98 of 103 peer districts. One must assume from years of caving in on contract negotiations. How does a union making more than almost anyone else in the whole country keep pleading poverty?

But almost as interesting is what comes as the last priority, extracurriculars, at 8|103. Surely someone has studies connections between extracurriculars and education outcomes?? Students more engaged in participation in any school activity surely engage more in the classroom.

Posted on: 3/31 13:37

Monroe

Re: JC Public Schools is short $70 million

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www.state.nj.us/education/guide/2015/ is a great resource to show per student spending/local funding.

Posted on: 3/31 11:57

bodhipooh

Re: JC Public Schools is short $70 million

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Quote:

demonicliberati wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Yes, you can agree to having your taxes raised to cover the difference.

I will. I strongly believe in paying my fair share of taxes if it helps strengthen the community.

But does anyone have any idea of how to voice my opinion to anyone who can make a difference? Who can I contact? I can't believe that they would be so unwilling to put it to a city vote to raise taxes by more than the 2% to make up the shortfall. Why not at least give us a chance to vote whether we'd be willing to pay for our teachers to stay employed or not?

I want to believe you... but, as we recently saw in the immediate aftermath of the mailing of initial tax estimates, seemingly most people that publicly and loudly claim they want to pay their fair share actually don't wish to do so. The utterly predictable post reval results (substantial hikes in DTJC, with moderate to significant decreases in areas like Greenville and BeLa) yielded hysterics among many DTJC homeowners complaining about being forced to to pay for the rest of city residents. Sadly, most refuse to acknowledge the basic truth that, for years now, they have been underpaying their fair share and things are now being rectified.

It is truly outstanding that some people claim (with a straight faced) that local public education is underfunded when the city per-pupil spending amounts to ~23K per year.

One of the net positives to likely come out from the reval is the heightened interest by local residents in the local budgets and expenditures.

Posted on: 3/31 11:35

HeightsNative

Re: JC Public Schools is short $70 million

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Quote:

demonicliberati wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Yes, you can agree to having your taxes raised to cover the difference.

I will. I strongly believe in paying my fair share of taxes if it helps strengthen the community.

But does anyone have any idea of how to voice my opinion to anyone who can make a difference? Who can I contact? I can't believe that they would be so unwilling to put it to a city vote to raise taxes by more than the 2% to make up the shortfall. Why not at least give us a chance to vote whether we'd be willing to pay for our teachers to stay employed or not?

Because our fearless leader Fulop has a streak of not raising taxes he needs to keep, because, you know, elections.

Posted on: 3/31 9:19

bodhipooh

Re: JC Public Schools is short $70 million

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Quote:

newbie100 wrote:
BTW how many students does JC have and what is our per student spending?

29,000 students
Per student spending is just shy of 23K

Posted on: 3/31 8:11

newbie100

Re: JC Public Schools is short $70 million

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BTW how many students does JC have and what is our per student spending?

Posted on: 3/30 17:08

JCGuys

Re: JC Public Schools is short $70 million

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Quote:

DanL wrote:

Yes, over-aided, but under-funded.

For those interested, good outside perspectives are -

http://njeducationaid.blogspot.com/

and

https://civicparent.org/

The blogspot site is stateaidguy's one. He is extremely knowledgeable on this complicated topic.

Posted on: 3/30 12:47

DanL

Re: JC Public Schools is short $70 million

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Yes, over-aided, but under-funded.

For those interested, good outside perspectives are -

http://njeducationaid.blogspot.com/

and

https://civicparent.org/

Quote:

brewster wrote:
Has anyone ever run across a line item comparison of how JC spends vs other NJ districts? I have no trouble believing it's wasteful, but I have no idea in what way.

Also, Stateaidguy says we're overaided, but I don't recall hearing what our appropriate aid should be. It's surely not Zero.

Posted on: 3/30 12:31

brewster

Re: JC Public Schools is short $70 million

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Has anyone ever run across a line item comparison of how JC spends vs other NJ districts? I have no trouble believing it's wasteful, but I have no idea in what way.

Also, Stateaidguy says we're overaided, but I don't recall hearing what our appropriate aid should be. It's surely not Zero.

Posted on: 3/30 12:00

demonicliberati

Re: JC Public Schools is short $70 million

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Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Yes, you can agree to having your taxes raised to cover the difference.

I will. I strongly believe in paying my fair share of taxes if it helps strengthen the community.

But does anyone have any idea of how to voice my opinion to anyone who can make a difference? Who can I contact? I can't believe that they would be so unwilling to put it to a city vote to raise taxes by more than the 2% to make up the shortfall. Why not at least give us a chance to vote whether we'd be willing to pay for our teachers to stay employed or not?

Posted on: 3/30 11:57

Monroe

Re: JC Public Schools is short $70 million

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Yes, you can agree to having your taxes raised to cover the difference.

Posted on: 3/30 11:41

demonicliberati

Re: JC Public Schools is short $70 million

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Does anyone know of any kind of action residents can take? I'm particularly concerned with the idea that 209 teachers "may" be laid off.

Posted on: 3/30 11:18

Monroe

Re: JC Public Schools is short $70 million

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And the better part of half a billion dollars comes from other NJ taxpayers, year after year.

Posted on: 3/30 10:33

Stringer

Re: JC Public Schools is short $70 million

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Initial $660M Jersey City school's budget calls for tax hike, layoffs

By Terrence T. McDonald - The Jersey Journal

The nine-member school board gave preliminary approval to the school district's $660 million school budget for the 2018-19 school year.

The spending plan gets sent now to the county superintendent for approval. It is expected to be adopted in May.

Here's what residents need to know about how the budget would affect them and the 29,000-student school district.

$660,214,829: the total amount the school district intends to spend in 2018-19. That's 5 percent less than the district intends to spend this school year.

http://www.nj.com/jjournal-news/index ... 0m_jersey_city_schoo.html

Posted on: 3/30 10:09