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Re: Teacher Protests Disturbing Neighborhood
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Pebble wrote:
Addendum:
Because I know that neither of you two parrots have a single clue about what the NJ Teacher’s Union has for healthcare benefits, I’ll do you both a favor and educate you. This is a link to the specifics on the policies.

...


The doc ony shows payments. Taking the first plan on the list "AETNA FREEDOM10 #018" - gives this link.

http://www.nj.gov/treasury/pensions/h ... lment_2015/sbc/sbc001.pdf

Not an expert - but given the deductibles and max out-of-pocket, that sure looks like it's NJ Gold plan or better. Most private employers take around the same $1k/month but will only provide silver-level coverage. In dollar terms, that's about $12k for ~$25k benefit public sector, compared to $12k for ~$16k benefit private sector.

Not massive. But to be honest I'd prefer to give that $9k difference to teachers as a pay increase. Colletively we need to exert more downward pressure on drug and treatment costs. Teachers and public employees will shop around for treatment if it's coming out of their own pockets. As it stands, public sector plans help create the spiralling healthcare costs.

Posted on: 3/2 14:57
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Re: Teacher Protests Disturbing Neighborhood
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Addendum:
Because I know that neither of you two parrots have a single clue about what the NJ Teacher’s Union has for healthcare benefits, I’ll do you both a favor and educate you. This is a link to the specifics on the policies.

Maybe you’ll click on the link or maybe you’ll just go running to whatever right-wing website keeps promoting the lies you’re spewing, but I’m going to throw out the idea that spending $1,000 per month for healthcare isn’t what I’d call “Platinum Plan” or “Cadillac Plan” unless the individuals are actually receiving platinum rings along with a new Cadillac Escalade every single month.

The average starting salary for a new teacher paying off student loans is $47,000. The median salary overall is $62,000.

My personal opinion is that dropping 25% of your pre-tax salary on paying for healthcare is a pretty crappy policy when there is still a copay involved. You can certainly disagree, but I’d love to hear why.

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Monroe wrote:
Jeez, Obamacare itself lists four levels-bronze, silver, gold, and platinum. NJ teacher plans are platinum; Gov Christie said he could fund the pension gap if the public sector unions would drop to gold plans.


Obamacare isn't what the Teachers Union in NJ has.

I'll ask again:
Provide the specifics of the teacher's current healthcare plan.
Provide the specifics of your personal healthcare plan.
Provide the specifics on why you are stating the option that NJ Teacher Unions have "platinum" or "Cadillac" healthcare plans.

I don't care about Christie's description. He's a corrupt proven liar. He holds no credibility.

The burden of proof is placed on those making the contention. You claim that teachers have this awesome health insurance. Prove it or backtrack on the statement with an apology stating the actual truth: "I do not actually know what the NJ Teacher Union provides as a healthcare plan. All of my talking points come from right wing websites. I should have known better about speaking on a topic of which I know nothing about."


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TheBigGuy wrote:
Quote:

Pebble wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Blame Barack Hussein Obama, I picked up the 'platinum' term from him.

Nice dog whistle there!

Now, please post links and references to Obama referring to teacher healthcare plans as "Platinum Plans".


Oh lovely, back to the future... here is your explanation of the Obama Care metal plans. Generally speaking a number of unions (and companies) had Platinum Plans that were deemed by the Obamacare designers as excessive and outside the guidelines for "normalizing" affordable healthcare for all people.

The IRS started to grant waivers so they would not have to pay penalties attached to their platinum plans... and of course many waivers went to Unions who happened to be big donors. For some reason UAW / SEIU come to mind, but don't quote me on those two.

http://www.medicoverage.com/health-in ... onze-silver-gold-platinum

Oh look, another stupid response to something that wasn’t written!

Since you want to wade in… Please provide the specific fact about what the NJ Teacher’s Union have as a healthcare plan. Barring than, you are yet another parrot that has zero actual knowledge. (I already know the result.)

Posted on: 3/2 12:49

Edited by Pebble on 2018/3/2 13:09:06
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Re: Teacher Protests Disturbing Neighborhood
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I used to work at a firm that represented a lot of Taft-Hartley funds. We had a lot of Teamster locals as clients and were co-counsel on the various pension and welfare funds. Several of them applied for waivers from the Affordable Care Act. Some got waivers, others didn't. The ones that got it were not affiliated with locals that gave more to Obama, they were ones that were able to demonstrate why their plans warranted a waiver.

Posted on: 3/2 8:49
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Re: Teacher Protests Disturbing Neighborhood
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Pebble wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Blame Barack Hussein Obama, I picked up the 'platinum' term from him.

Nice dog whistle there!

Now, please post links and references to Obama referring to teacher healthcare plans as "Platinum Plans".


Oh lovely, back to the future... here is your explanation of the Obama Care metal plans. Generally speaking a number of unions (and companies) had Platinum Plans that were deemed by the Obamacare designers as excessive and outside the guidelines for "normalizing" affordable healthcare for all people.

The IRS started to grant waivers so they would not have to pay penalties attached to their platinum plans... and of course many waivers went to Unions who happened to be big donors. For some reason UAW / SEIU come to mind, but don't quote me on those two.

http://www.medicoverage.com/health-in ... onze-silver-gold-platinum

Posted on: 3/1 18:35
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Re: Teacher Protests Disturbing Neighborhood
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Rumor from my high school kid is that there may be a strike tomorrow - anyone else hear this?

Posted on: 3/1 17:50
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Re: Teacher Protests Disturbing Neighborhood
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Monroe wrote:
Jeez, Obamacare itself lists four levels-bronze, silver, gold, and platinum. NJ teacher plans are platinum; Gov Christie said he could fund the pension gap if the public sector unions would drop to gold plans.


And of course you believed him.

You aren't making a dent in a $49 billion hole by moving public sector employees one level in their healthcare plans. Not saying small efforts don't add up, but that move alone would do very little.

Just once, stop and process the drivel you consume before you reflexively spew it on others. Just once. For your own sake.

Posted on: 3/1 17:12
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Re: Teacher Protests Disturbing Neighborhood
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Jeez, Obamacare itself lists four levels-bronze, silver, gold, and platinum. NJ teacher plans are platinum; Gov Christie said he could fund the pension gap if the public sector unions would drop to gold plans.

Posted on: 3/1 16:56
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Re: Teacher Protests Disturbing Neighborhood
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Monroe wrote:
Blame Barack Hussein Obama, I picked up the 'platinum' term from him.

Nice dog whistle there!

Now, please post links and references to Obama referring to teacher healthcare plans as "Platinum Plans".

Posted on: 3/1 16:15
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Re: Teacher Protests Disturbing Neighborhood
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Blame Barack Hussein Obama, I picked up the 'platinum' term from him.

Posted on: 3/1 14:37
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Re: Teacher Protests Disturbing Neighborhood
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The cost of health insurance for NJ teachers is 50% more than the national average, and NJ teachers contribute far less to this than the national average for teachers for their plans. It's due to the NJ teachers union gaming the political system to get a platinum plated Cadillac plan.

“Platinum plated Cadillac plan”… right wing buzzwords used to imply something that, when looking at facts, doesn’t remotely come close to the facts. All the teachers I know pay more for their health insurance than I and they don’t get nearly the coverage and I can easily state that my insurance is pretty shitty.

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Monroe wrote:
Keep in mind for 2017 all NJ public sector unions agreed to some tweaks to their plans which kept their plan increase to 3.4%. The School Employees Health Plan Benefits Board refused-and its plan cost went up 8.4%.

Salary increases didn’t match this increase in cost. As such, teachers are making less money this year than last. Throw in the fact that teachers who purchase school supplies on their own will no longer get that tax break… unlike a sales guy that will still get a tax break for mileage put on a car.

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Monroe wrote:
And keep in mind JC spends 25% more per student than the state average, graduation rates lag far behind the state average, and SAT scores are in the lowest 15% (not counting the McNair magnet school). Last year, all public sector unions EXCEPT the teachers, agreed to small changes to their platinum health plans. Those plans saw a slight just over 3% increase. The teacher Union refused and saw over 8%.

There’s that “platinum plan” comment again! Please, if you are going to assign a qualitative value to the plan, describe in detail exactly what makes it “platinum”. Then, describe your current health plan, how much you pay and the benefits you receive with it. From there, we can all see how truly full of shit the statement “platinum plan” really is.

As for the spending on schools… the is a biproduct of poverty. Kids can’t afford laptops like in other towns. Teachers are required to deal with mental health issues that other towns don’t have on the same order. Safety at schools, regarding security given the urban nature of the area, is not the same in the suburbs. But, yeah, all schools and students are exactly the same…

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neverleft wrote:
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Strawhat wrote:
Just saw a video online that cops were at the protest this morning pulling over a ton of cars who honked to support the protest. Guess OP's daily calling of the police has worked.


Cops ticketing motorists for honking in support of teacher protest
Updated 3:00 PM; Posted 12:43 PM

By Terrence T. McDonald tmcdonald@jjournal.com

The Jersey Journal

JERSEY CITY — Honk if you want a ticket!

Motorists driving by teacher protests outside School 4 in Downtown Jersey City have been getting a little present from City Hall if they honk their car horns in support: a $54 ticket.

At least one teacher received a ticket and, according to one source, a police officer was chided by his superiors for blaring his horn while driving by a protest.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... 2box_nj-homepage-featured

Stupid.

Posted on: 3/1 12:20
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Re: Teacher Protests Disturbing Neighborhood
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It is easy to support something when it not impact your life. I feel sorry for the neighbors, I still remember living on Van Vorst Park and hearing the parades every Saturday and Sunday from June to August. They were so noisy that they set off the car alarms that react to noise. Thank God cars are not that sensitive as in the past because the protest would set off car alarms today.

Posted on: 2/23 16:50
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Strawhat wrote:
Just saw a video online that cops were at the protest this morning pulling over a ton of cars who honked to support the protest. Guess OP's daily calling of the police has worked.


Cops ticketing motorists for honking in support of teacher protest
Updated 3:00 PM; Posted 12:43 PM

By Terrence T. McDonald tmcdonald@jjournal.com

The Jersey Journal

JERSEY CITY — Honk if you want a ticket!

Motorists driving by teacher protests outside School 4 in Downtown Jersey City have been getting a little present from City Hall if they honk their car horns in support: a $54 ticket.

At least one teacher received a ticket and, according to one source, a police officer was chided by his superiors for blaring his horn while driving by a protest.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... 2box_nj-homepage-featured

Posted on: 2/23 16:09
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Re: Teacher Protests Disturbing Neighborhood
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Just saw a video online that cops were at the protest this morning pulling over a ton of cars who honked to support the protest. Guess OP's daily calling of the police has worked.

Posted on: 2/23 14:47
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Re: Teacher Protests Disturbing Neighborhood
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jsh278 wrote:
I'm not sick of hearing them protest, I'm sick of the fact that they need to protest.



+1

Posted on: 2/23 8:44
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Re: Teacher Protests Disturbing Neighborhood
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mle267 wrote:
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dtjcview wrote:
[quote]
mle267 wrote:
[quote]
dtjcview wrote:
No problem with youths near voting age expressing their support. But bringing young kids to a protest looks like exploitation to many. But I'm not the one looking for a pay increase - just the one that may vote against it....



So who elects the JC BOE? And the point was general and not specific to me, nor a single vote.

You said you weren’t looking for a pay increase - just the one who may vote against it. Sure sounded to me like you were referring to yourself, as that is what the first person is often used for.

Teachers need to keep the BOE, City, County and State electorates on their side. Exploiting young kids looks bad to a high percentage of that electorate.


Again, you saw (I’m assuming) children present at one school. If I am mistaken about the number of schools you visited to make your claims, I apologize. I believe PS 16 was the original school mentioned in this message thread. You were provided with explanations as to why the children were there- either employees own kids or children brought by their parents who chose to support teachers. You disagree with those decisions but that's about it. Time to move on.


Might want to preview before submitting.

Posted on: 2/22 20:20
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Re: Teacher Protests Disturbing Neighborhood
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dtjcview wrote:
[quote]
mle267 wrote:
[quote]
dtjcview wrote:
No problem with youths near voting age expressing their support. But bringing young kids to a protest looks like exploitation to many. But I'm not the one looking for a pay increase - just the one that may vote against it....



So who elects the JC BOE? And the point was general and not specific to me, nor a single vote.

You said you weren’t looking for a pay increase - just the one who may vote against it. Sure sounded to me like you were referring to yourself, as that is what the first person is often used for.

Teachers need to keep the BOE, City, County and State electorates on their side. Exploiting young kids looks bad to a high percentage of that electorate.


Again, you saw (I’m assuming) children present at one school. If I am mistaken about the number of schools you visited to make your claims, I apologize. I believe PS 16 was the original school mentioned in this message thread. You were provided with explanations as to why the children were there- either employees own kids or children brought by their parents who chose to support teachers. You disagree with those decisions but that's about it. Time to move on.

Posted on: 2/22 18:03
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Re: Teacher Protests Disturbing Neighborhood
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And keep in mind JC spends 25% more per student than the state average, graduation rates lag far behind the state average, and SAT scores are in the lowest 15% (not counting the McNair magnet school). Last year, all public sector unions EXCEPT the teachers, agreed to small changes to their platinum health plans. Those plans saw a slight just over 3% increase. The teacher Union refused and saw over 8%.

Posted on: 2/22 11:04
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Re: Teacher Protests Disturbing Neighborhood
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School shootings in JC 'seem to be imminent'? Stricter gun laws are needed? You do know NJ gun laws are among the strictest gun laws in the country (then again I'd bet none of the shootings near Ocean Ave were by legal, NRA member gun owners.

But contact the JCPD if you feel a school shooting is imminent.

Posted on: 2/22 10:57
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Re: Teacher Protests Disturbing Neighborhood
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I find this topic curious - My neighbors are calling the cops on these teachers?

I also live in the neighborhood and I hear these protests every morning too. I find it infuriating that the teachers are getting the brunt end - especially considering the trauma we expect them to anticipate and handle (read: shootings - which seem to be imminent), and that the solutions hasn't become let's find a way to inhibit this from happening (read: sensible gun laws). Instead the topic that I've heard thrown around quite a bit this last week is the idea that we should ARM these teachers (and what, expect them to act as security/body guards to children??).

We can't seem to give them a fair contract, and we can't seem to fund basic necessities in the classroom. :-|

These teachers SHOULD be protesting, and so should the students(!), they should be lighting the street on fire every day they have to deal with this. What we as a culture expect from teachers (and honestly, what we NEED from them) is absolutely absurd for what we offer them.

Paying the taxes that covers these teachers salary isn't just about funding your own children in the school system, whether or not they go to catholic school - it's about investing in the future of this community and this country. I don't even have kids, but I get that. Slashing education and/or nickle and diming teachers benefits literally no one, not today and certainly not 25 years from today. Please give these teachers what they need so they can continue helping us.

I'm not sick of hearing them protest, I'm sick of the fact that they need to protest.

Posted on: 2/22 10:39
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Re: Teacher Protests Disturbing Neighborhood
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mle267 wrote:
Quote:

dtjcview wrote:
No problem with youths near voting age expressing their support. But bringing young kids to a protest looks like exploitation to many. But I'm not the one looking for a pay increase - just the one that may vote against it....


Unless you are a member of the Jersey City Board of Education or a member of the Jersey City Education Association, I am not quite sure when you feel you will have the opportunity to vote on the pay increase. The negotiations teams of each party come to an agreement on a contract proposal that each feels is acceptable. The membership of the union votes to ratify or not, then it is presented to the board for approval. So unless you happen to be a member of one of the organizations, you aren't voting on anything.


So who elects the JC BOE? And the point was general and not specific to me, nor a single vote.

Teachers need to keep the BOE, City, County and State electorates on their side. Exploiting young kids looks bad to a high percentage of that electorate.

Posted on: 2/22 10:34
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Re: Teacher Protests Disturbing Neighborhood
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Yvonne wrote:
I have paid my fair share of school taxes, yet my children went to Catholic schools. How about protesting tax abatements instead? The old abatement agreements still pay nothing but the children still go to the schools. Maybe it is time they pay up.
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Very entertaining but wait until the state see Jersey City went up from a ratable base of $6.2 billion to $28 billion. They will expect more money from taxpayers for the local schools. That will be the nail in the coffin for those who are going up. So my suggestion is not 'beating a dead horse.'

Posted on: 2/21 11:20
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Re: Teacher Protests Disturbing Neighborhood
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Yvonne wrote:
I have paid my fair share of school taxes, yet my children went to Catholic schools. How about protesting tax abatements instead? The old abatement agreements still pay nothing but the children still go to the schools. Maybe it is time they pay up.
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Posted on: 2/21 10:36
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Re: Teacher Protests Disturbing Neighborhood
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tictaktoe wrote:
The kids were not just "walking and cheering". They were made to wear posters and shout out loud. Lot of people saw that on Washingotn and Grand intersection and outside Cornelia Bradford.

Just because the kids were with their parents doesnt give anyone a pass. There are parents who beat their kids as well - just because they are the parents, does it make it right? As far as using the logic of "learning from real life experience", well c'mon, you are telling that to justify pulling 4-5 years old? How many of you decided to sit in front of the kids, and told them about both the sides and then asked them "hey, so what do you think Which side is strong?"

And the teacher's union or whoever leads these protests should have said NO to including kids in these protests. Being teachers, they should have known better.


I'd say it is quite a jump to go from kids walking around their school to parents beating their kids. No need to sensationalize a situation here.

For the record, it is teachers themselves who are organizing these protests. Therefore, it is their decision to do whatever they feel like doing. Sorry if you don't agree, but I am not quite sure what gives you the authority to make statements like "being teachers, they should have known better." Known better what? What does being a teacher have to do with it? You clearly do not agree with the protests, and that is completely within your rights as a citizen to have those opinions. In the same way, teachers have the same rights and can do as they please, "knowing better" having absolutely nothing at all to do with anything.


I clearly said that "..irrespective of the merits of the case". No where I mentioned if I support the protests or not. You definitely need to go back to a school and learn reading again.

Wrong is wrong. Getting 3 years old kids to shout and hanging a protest banner from their neck, just to gather sympathy, is WRONG.


My apologies for misinterpreting your tone as one of being against the protests. I acknowledge my mistake.

However, instead of being rude and using caps lock to "yell" I will simply reiterate my main point from my previous post. You are 100% entitled to your opinion that the presence of children is wrong. Every other person is equally entitled to have his/her opinion as well. No opinion is right or wrong. Not mine. Not yours. Caps Lock does not make something TRUTH.

Posted on: 2/21 8:16
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dtjcview wrote:
No problem with youths near voting age expressing their support. But bringing young kids to a protest looks like exploitation to many. But I'm not the one looking for a pay increase - just the one that may vote against it....


Unless you are a member of the Jersey City Board of Education or a member of the Jersey City Education Association, I am not quite sure when you feel you will have the opportunity to vote on the pay increase. The negotiations teams of each party come to an agreement on a contract proposal that each feels is acceptable. The membership of the union votes to ratify or not, then it is presented to the board for approval. So unless you happen to be a member of one of the organizations, you aren't voting on anything.

Posted on: 2/21 8:12
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tictaktoe wrote:
The kids were not just "walking and cheering". They were made to wear posters and shout out loud. Lot of people saw that on Washingotn and Grand intersection and outside Cornelia Bradford.

Just because the kids were with their parents doesnt give anyone a pass. There are parents who beat their kids as well - just because they are the parents, does it make it right? As far as using the logic of "learning from real life experience", well c'mon, you are telling that to justify pulling 4-5 years old? How many of you decided to sit in front of the kids, and told them about both the sides and then asked them "hey, so what do you think Which side is strong?"

And the teacher's union or whoever leads these protests should have said NO to including kids in these protests. Being teachers, they should have known better.


I'd say it is quite a jump to go from kids walking around their school to parents beating their kids. No need to sensationalize a situation here.

For the record, it is teachers themselves who are organizing these protests. Therefore, it is their decision to do whatever they feel like doing. Sorry if you don't agree, but I am not quite sure what gives you the authority to make statements like "being teachers, they should have known better." Known better what? What does being a teacher have to do with it? You clearly do not agree with the protests, and that is completely within your rights as a citizen to have those opinions. In the same way, teachers have the same rights and can do as they please, "knowing better" having absolutely nothing at all to do with anything.


I clearly said that "..irrespective of the merits of the case". No where I mentioned if I support the protests or not. You definitely need to go back to a school and learn reading again.

Wrong is wrong. Getting 3 years old kids to shout and hanging a protest banner from their neck, just to gather sympathy, is WRONG.

Posted on: 2/20 22:05
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If you think the protest alone are disturbing the neighborhood you haven't seen nothing yet. The teacher strike 20 years ago was pretty bad. I wish I could find old video footage of the news reports at the time, this article doesn't cover it as well as the reporters on the scene did back then and actually makes it sound less chaotic. Hopefully history doesn't repeat it self.

http://www.nytimes.com/1998/11/20/nyr ... hools-erupt-in-chaos.html


Posted on: 2/20 20:30
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No problem with youths near voting age expressing their support. But bringing young kids to a protest looks like exploitation to many. But I'm not the one looking for a pay increase - just the one that may vote against it....

Posted on: 2/20 16:57
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Re: Teacher Protests Disturbing Neighborhood
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tictaktoe wrote:
The kids were not just "walking and cheering". They were made to wear posters and shout out loud. Lot of people saw that on Washingotn and Grand intersection and outside Cornelia Bradford.

Just because the kids were with their parents doesnt give anyone a pass. There are parents who beat their kids as well - just because they are the parents, does it make it right? As far as using the logic of "learning from real life experience", well c'mon, you are telling that to justify pulling 4-5 years old? How many of you decided to sit in front of the kids, and told them about both the sides and then asked them "hey, so what do you think Which side is strong?"

And the teacher's union or whoever leads these protests should have said NO to including kids in these protests. Being teachers, they should have known better.


I'd say it is quite a jump to go from kids walking around their school to parents beating their kids. No need to sensationalize a situation here.

For the record, it is teachers themselves who are organizing these protests. Therefore, it is their decision to do whatever they feel like doing. Sorry if you don't agree, but I am not quite sure what gives you the authority to make statements like "being teachers, they should have known better." Known better what? What does being a teacher have to do with it? You clearly do not agree with the protests, and that is completely within your rights as a citizen to have those opinions. In the same way, teachers have the same rights and can do as they please, "knowing better" having absolutely nothing at all to do with anything.

Posted on: 2/20 8:08
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Re: Teacher Protests Disturbing Neighborhood
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Home away from home
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I have paid my fair share of school taxes, yet my children went to Catholic schools. How about protesting tax abatements instead? The old abatement agreements still pay nothing but the children still go to the schools. Maybe it is time they pay up.

Posted on: 2/17 18:12
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Re: Teacher Protests Disturbing Neighborhood
#42
Home away from home
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When the unions own the politicians it's not exactly bargaining. Luckily it seems the Supreme Court is about to take care of this-better times ahead!

Posted on: 2/17 17:48
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